Glenn Greenwald Finally Goes Full Full Mask Off

[mael]

One of the problems of US politics is that only American bodies count.

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I mean that's not just an American thing.
You think UK people will give a shit about some guy killing millions on the other side of the Earth when they have to deal with someone killing them by the thousands every day?
If there was a position of president of the Earth that might be relevant but otherwise the death of 'the other' is never considered a bad thing if it is considered at all (and even if there was a rule of Earth, you can be sure that people would turn a blind eye to death caused outside of the sphere).

 

[John Rabbit]

This guy sucks golfballs through a garden hose, but "The toxicity of American normalcy is what elected Trump in the first place. " is facts.

 

[Deleted member 2752]

I mean that's not just an American thing.
You think UK people will give a shit about some guy killing millions on the other side of the Earth when they have to deal with someone killing them by the thousands every day?

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Is that supposed to be an excuse? The post you quoted said Bush killed more people than Trump and your answer was "not Americans, though".

 

[DrROBschiz]

Maybe its time to stop posting Glenn Greenwald

 

[Mivey]

There's certainly a logical connection between Reagan, George Bush Senior, George Bush Junior and Trump, where Trump just feels like the logical endpoint.
The fault of Dems would be to pretend this continued shift right hasn't happened, and either don't do much to reverse it (Clinton) or only half-heartedly, with dumb attempts to call for bipartisanship (Obama).
With Biden, I feel there's a real risk to continue that ineffective, and frankly negligent behaviour of pretending the GOP is still a normal, (liberal democratic) party. Foreign policy wise, I have honestly no idea what the US is still standing for. Even under Obama, it felt like an incompetent mess, only understandable from the lens of domestic policy.

The tweets of Gleenwald don't feel that wrong, even if I don't think anyone sensible can say that Trumps presidency has been truly normal.

 

[GenTask]

I don't see how this is full on. Its interesting how Greenwald is vilified by Centrists. He is after all responsible for breaking the Snowden story, being anti-Imperialist, and breaking the corruption story in Brazil, and that's good. His salary at The Intercept literally paid for the security detail protecting him and his family/kids from the corrupt Brazil government. The Intercept was also vilified early on its on existence by Centrist Left/Right, but people have short memory spans it seems by people back then when the Snowden story broke more willing to protect the interests of the CIA and NSA.

I for one will be calling out Biden's inherited War Crimes just as I did Trump who is also a war criminal and was not removed immediately for committing them which he should have been. As an 'extremist' radical leftist anti-war, anti-war, anti-imperialist/empire; they're War Criminals the whole lot of them. The U.S. is most definitely going down the tubes, Trump or No Trump, its naked Villainy is on full display with the bad stuff said out loud.

 

[kadotsu]

So you think if Bush were running right now for example, we'd be in this same exact situation? Or if one of the other Republican candidates in 2016 won? Romney?

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If (hopefully) Biden wins tonight, we will see the "reasonable" response to Covid. Europe is a good example, the continent also has a spike right now and is locking down. Will the Norms guy do it too. Or will he just eulegize the citizens that will be thrown in the work meat grinder? So my answer is. The US would still be at the same place, minus the blood and soil rethoric. The US would also probably be in Venezuala right now.

 

[asmith906]

One of the problems of US politics is that only American bodies count.

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That's because all politics are local.
That's a universal truth literally everywhere on the planet.

 

[mael]

Is that supposed to be an excuse? The post you quoted said Bush killed more people than Trump and your answer was "not Americans, though".

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To Americans who have decide on their future it matters a hell of a lot more.
I can tell you that whatever country you're living in, you would find unacceptable to have someone killing willy nilly over while you wouldn't feel the urgency if that happened elsewhere.

That's because all politics are local.
That's a universal truth literally everywhere on the planet.

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Foreign affair is at best a bonus but there was never anyone who was ever elected on stuffs that didn't impact people locally.
That's also why in the US, the major negative of the Iraq is how many of the troup died over the literal massacres perpetrated on Iraqi people.

 

[DrROBschiz]

There's certainly a logical connection between Reagan, George Bush Senior, George Bush Junior and Trump, where Trump just feels like the logical endpoint.
The fault of Dems would be to pretend this continued shift right hasn't happened, and either don't do much to reverse it (Clinton) or only half-heartedly, with dumb attempts to call for bipartisanship (Obama).
With Biden, I feel there's a real risk to continue that ineffective, and frankly negligent behaviour of pretending the GOP is still a normal, (liberal democratic) party.

The tweets of Gleenwald don't feel that wrong, even if I don't think anyone sensible can say that Trumps presidency has been truly normal.

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There is nothing of value simply pointing out what we are already keenly aware of

He offers nothing outside of "better keep an eye on these sneaky dems!"

 

[Sign My Guestbook!]

I mean this is the guy who, when he left the Intercept, IMMEDIATELY went to Fox News to talk about it.

Fox News.

It's clear where this dude's bread is buttered.

 

[strudelkuchen]

I mean before 2020 sure, I don't think Bush killed over 200k Americans because he was lazy as fuck though.

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Yes, you are correct and it is disgusting what Trump did.

As a reminder what Bush Jr. did to Iraq: "4.5 million displaced, 1-2 million widows, 5 million orphans, about one million dead - in one way or another, affecting nearly one in every two people in Iraq with tragically life-altering (or ending) impacts."

 

[Sunster]

Biden will be an awful president.

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compared to who?

 

[DrROBschiz]

I mean this is the guy who, when he left the Intercept, IMMEDIATELY went to Fox News to talk about it.

Fox News.

It's clear where this dude's bread is buttered.

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He wants that Alex Jones money while trying to appear some critical observer of American misdeeds

 

[Buckle]

Yes, you correct and it is disgusting what Trump did.

As a reminder what Bush Jr. did to Iraq: "4.5 million displaced, 1-2 million widows, 5 million orphans, about one million dead - in one way or another, affecting nearly one in every two people in Iraq with tragically life-altering (or ending) impacts."

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Ellen: "I don't understand while people are so upset I'm friends with him."

 

[shinobi602]

If (hopefully) Biden wins tonight, we will see the "reasonable" response to Covid. Europe is a good example, the continent also has a spike right now and is locking down. Will the Norms guy do it too. Or will he just eulegize the citizens that will be thrown in the work meat grinder? So my answer is. The US would still be at the same place, minus the blood and soil rethoric. The US would also probably be in Venezuala right now.

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Yeah, sorry, we'll just have to agree to disagree, strongly. Even with how much of an asshole Bush was, we didn't see Bush caravans and flags converging on cities threatening people's lives and running campaign buses off the road or literally threaten governors on live TV.

 

[GuessMyUserName]

And if you devote your life and work solely to the "Democrats are terrible" part you have to excuse me if I'm not really buying you believe "the Republicans are way worse" because 95% of the time he leaves that part unsaid.

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He doesn't just leave it unsaid, in the individual cases he has constantly argued people are overblowing all the wrongdoings from Trump and the right.

 

[admiraltaftbar]

Libertarians are not your friend as a progressive. Their love of non interventionism is born out of fuck you got mine ideology. Despite rallying against the American prison system they have no problem allowing the "invisible hand" to strangle you even if they promise the government won't.

 

[mugurumakensei]

I mean this is the guy who, when he left the Intercept, IMMEDIATELY went to Fox News to talk about it.

Fox News.

It's clear where this dude's bread is buttered.

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yep. He went on and on trying to push fake conspiracies about Biden and downplayed Russian election interference. Unsurprisingly, the day he decided to make that move it came out the information came from a deep fake. Greenwald doesn't care about anyone but Greenwald. Its the only reason he zeroes in on foreign issues given he lives in Brazil. It's likely why he feels such kinship with Trump who also cares only about himself.

 

[excelsiorlef]

is a perspective that much of the left would agree with, and it's not normalizing Trump

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He literally says there's nothing abnormal about Trump and his presidency except his tweets and personality affects


Combine the rest of those tweets with his obsession with Hunter Biden, his exclusive focus on fear mongering about the Democrats, his assertion that the media is corrupt for Biden, etc...

 

[mael]

Yes, you correct and it is disgusting what Trump did.

As a reminder what Bush Jr. did to Iraq: "4.5 million displaced, 1-2 million widows, 5 million orphans, about one million dead - in one way or another, affecting nearly one in every two people in Iraq with tragically life-altering (or ending) impacts."

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And because it impacted so few American lives outside of the military, the extent of the misery inflicted on people by Bush Jr is considered a footnote.
If Trump had killed 5 times as many people but very few American casualties, we would be looking at an easy reelection now for the orange turd.

 

[Titanpaul]

trump bad
biden bad

what a depressingly reductive take, and some of yall eatin it

 

[DrROBschiz]

Yeah, sorry, we'll just have to agree to disagree, strongly. Even with how much of an asshole Bush was, we didn't see Bush caravans and flags converging on cities threatening people's lives and running campaign buses off the road or literally threaten governors on live TV.

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Is Trump just a bump in the road of Historical American misdeeds?

Sure but downplaying his impact on today's society and its ability to course correct is effing crazy to me

Its Pure Whataboutism.

 

[dabig2]

One of the problems of US politics is that only American bodies count.

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As it's always been.

This never mattered to Americans because one of our faves basically helped create it years ago

It's the largest humanitarian crisis in the

22M+ people in Yemen need humanitarian aid

Here is how the
@UNOCHA & partners are helping:

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Same for this:

Report: America's War On Terror Displaced 37 Million People [Infographic] https://forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/09/15/report-americas-war-on-terror-displaced-37-million-people-infographic/… via
@forbes

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And a lot of well-meaning liberal types want to go back to these halcyon days, and then get weirdly defensive and then "bu bu bu bu" whenever it's brought again to attention just the last 20 years of scum evil murderous racist shit this country got up to around the world.

 

[El-Pistolero]

I happen to agree with him. It seems to me that Trump is more of a symptom (a nasty one), and less of a cause...But then again, I have always believed that presidents have very little say when compared to the deep state, the powerful lobbies and corporations and the mighty Wall Street. Presidents come and go, with the unwavering army of interest groups waving them goodbye and welcoming the next comer with open arms. The US is deeply fractured, it seems to me, and imbued with a sense of righteousness and infallibility that makes both sides immune to the idea of having serious discussions on how to curb the overzealousness of all involved.

 

[Buckle]

trump bad
biden bad

what a depressingly reductive take, and some of yall eatin it

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I facepalm every time I see the "he's right, you know" posts.

Greenwald wants to normalize Trump when theres nothing about his term that HASN'T been abnormal. Get the fuck out of here with this shit.

 

[Poppy]

ah yes the president is the same as all the others if you ignore all the severe fomenting of white nationalism and right wing extremist behavior, and detaching from our allies worldwide, etc etc etc

like it isnt clever to say that all presidents are corrupt and are meddling internationally and cozying up to corporations, no shit. but if you want to pretend you're smarter than everyone by saying nothing about trump is unexpected and that we aren't going to have a fundamentally different voice in the white house after he's gone, you are probably drinking way too much doomposting juice

 

[fontguy]

Greenwald's a raging asshole, but these specific tweets are pretty accurate.

 

[collige]

Yeah, sorry, we'll just have to agree to disagree, strongly. Even with how much of an asshole Bush was, we didn't see Bush caravans and flags converging on cities threatening people's lives and running campaign buses off the road or literally threaten governors on live TV.

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I think this comes down the biggest issue with Trump being that he says the quiet part out loud. The danger of focusing solely on that unique brand of terribleness is that it takes the quiet being said at all for granted.

 

[Hoot]

Yeah, sorry, we'll just have to agree to disagree, strongly. Even with how much of an asshole Bush was, we didn't see Bush caravans and flags converging on cities threatening people's lives and running campaign buses off the road or literally threaten governors on live TV.

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Dunno about that. The prototype version of that (the Tea Party) was hugely talked about back then and was a shock across Europe as being just as nutty, spouting hateful rhetoric, massive islamophobia dialogue and attacks. Hell I remember still clearly lots of cases of aggressions against muslim americans. They weren't doing insane shit quite on the scale of MAGAts of today, but let's not forget that the inception of those started during the Bush Era

 

[Leandras]

Biden isn't even elected yet and Liberals are already starting to agitate with nationalism.

The democrats suck for the most part and will do everything in their power to return to the illusion of normality as soon as possible. But they aren't proto fascists tho and healthy criticism of them is needed to prevent the next silver-tongued dictator the GOP puts out.

Trump isn't the disease in US politics. He's an symptom of it and an accelerator but the societal problems he's exploiting have been bubbling under the surface for a long time and we can't afford to pretend things are going back to normal.

 

[Perkin_Warbeck]

Greenwald's is a perfectly coherent worldview. I definately get why it would lead someone to prefer Trump's re-election. I'm glad he finally clarified it for everyone.

 

[Rats]

This is like the best example of how you can kinda be right to a degree, but kinda ruin it by being so bad faith in the way you represent things. Like Bernie Sanders is saying something substantially similar, but not being super bad faith about it.

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This is where I'm at. I don't trust Glenn's motivations with these tweets but taken on their face I can't say I disagree with them.

 

[kadotsu]

Yeah, sorry, we'll just have to agree to disagree, strongly. Even with how much of an asshole Bush was, we didn't see Bush caravans and flags converging on cities threatening people's lives and running campaign buses off the road or literally threaten governors on live TV.

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Too bad they didn't have FBI written on the side. Then it would've been normal.

 

[Bramblebutt]

Yeah, sorry, we'll just have to agree to disagree, strongly. Even with how much of an asshole Bush was, we didn't see Bush caravans and flags converging on cities threatening people's lives and running campaign buses off the road or literally threaten governors on live TV.

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You're right; when Bush's caravans and flags converged on cities it was to kill and torture the residents in the thousands, not simply to threaten them with violence.

 

[Empyrean Cocytus]

While I'm quite suspicious of the guy for cosying up to Tucker Carlson...

As some on the far-left, I can't disagree with anything he just said.

Biden will be an awful president. Just thankfully not a fascist one.

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He's already said he plans to have progressive and moderate voices in his cabinet.

 

[GuessMyUserName]

Fuck anybody trying to normalize the white supremacist in chief openly pushing for race wars, attacks on journalists, denying knowledge at the same time as complimenting nazi movements, and doing the same for conspiracies like QAnon which has utterly poisoned a disgusting amount of Americans.

 

[Deleted member 58220]

He's a massive crybaby and shithead but absolutely right in saying those things.

 

[Thatonedice1]

trump bad
biden bad

what a depressingly reductive take, and some of yall eatin it

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But they both are bad. I voted for Biden but that doesn't erase all the shitty things he's done. Black communities all over the country have been destroyed by the crime bill.

 

[Rodderick]

This is like the best example of how you can kinda be right to a degree, but kinda ruin it by being so bad faith in the way you represent things. Like Bernie Sanders is saying something substantially similar, but not being super bad faith about it.

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For all the liberal crying about how Bernie isn't a team player, to his credit he's literally never equivocated on Trump presenting a unique threat to America. I mean, it's not even close to the same sentiment. Bernie has railed on the Democratic establishment, but he doesn't solely focus on them as the source of all of America's ills while painting Trump as just another guy in the oval office. Bernie knows Republicans, and Trump especially, are fundamentally worse for the country than the Democratic Party.

 

[Titanpaul]

But they both are bad. I voted for Biden but that doesn't erase all the shitty things he's done. Black communities all over the country have been destroyed by the crime bill.

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The political world is too complex to be diluted down to "bad". That's my point. Bernie Sanders is "bad" if we consider some of the bills he agreed to decades ago. But comparable to Trumpism? No.

This is not binary.

Glenn and those who agree are normalizing equivalency between parties and candidates and that is DANGEROUS.

 

[Bisha Monkey]

I agree with a lot of the points he raises, I just don't think he is sincere about it. He has proven he is just an asshole playing the devil's advocate.

 

[mael]

For all the liberal crying about how Bernie isn't a team player, to his credit he's literally never equivocated on Trump presenting a unique threat to America. I mean, it's not even close to the same sentiment. Bernie has railed on the Democratic establishment, but he doesn't solely focus on them as the source of all of America's ills while painting Trump as just another guy in the oval office. Bernie knows Republicans, and Trump especially, are fundamentally worse for the country than the Democratic Party.

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That might be because he's actually invested in making things better for people.
If you think everything is always terrible and there's no way to make things better, you can just not care when things get even worse.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Its interesting how Greenwald is vilified by Centrists

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Him all but campaigning for Trump helps

 

[BossAttack]

 

[Titanpaul]

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This sums it up pretty well.

 

[dabig2]

I facepalm every time I see the "he's right, you know" posts.

Greenwald wants to normalize Trump when theres nothing about his term that HASN'T been abnormal.

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I hate GG, but I know exactly where he's coming from.

You talk about normalizing Trump, as if the problem isn't that you all are normalizing decades of genocides, decades of a trillion dollar Drug War, decades of rising inequality, decades of racism, decades of illegal coups, decades of the government lying and spying on its own people, and so on.

GG's main point is this: a whole lot of americans need to stop doing this MAGA thing nonironically, because at no point has america ever been great or even good or even decent.

And in these times we can't afford to have Americans check out, again, as soon as the "leisure class" of liberals (shout out to 80s Jesse Jackson for the phrase) assumes control again.

 

[mugurumakensei]

Him all but campaigning for Trump helps

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It's also kind of funny to see people try to act like Greenwald doesn't tacitly approve of locking children in cages and given his previous writings on immigration he's likely in love with the policy. It's also why he's saying Trump's not that bad.

 

[El-Pistolero]

Yeah, sorry, we'll just have to agree to disagree, strongly. Even with how much of an asshole Bush was, we didn't see Bush caravans and flags converging on cities threatening people's lives and running campaign buses off the road or literally threaten governors on live TV.

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Under Bush Afghanistan and especially Iraq happened, unimaginable destruction and atrocities were committed, and the world as a whole has taken a turn for the worst. In terms of foreign policy, Trump's tenure, at least from the perspective of a non-American, has been infinitely less diabolical...

I hate GG, but I know exactly where he's coming from.

You talk about normalizing Trump, as if the problem isn't that you all are normalizing decades of genocides, decades of a trillion dollar Drug War, decades of rising inequality, decades of racism, decades of illegal coups, decades of the government lying and spying on its own people, and so on.

GG's main point is this: a whole lot of americans need to stop doing this MAGA thing nonironically, because at no point has america ever been great or even good or even decent.

And in these times we can't afford to have Americans check out, again, as soon as the "leisure class" of liberals (shout out to 80s Jesse Jackson for the phrase) assumes control again.

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You expressed it better than I ever could.

 

[Palette Swap]

There's truth to the notion that imperialism is embedded in American exceptionalism and as a result, it comes with the office and should be fought.
But the moment you use that argument to essentially whitewash Trump, like our boy here is so apt to, you're just an ally to fascists.

Greenwald is a right wing asshole and doesn't deserve caping for him.