Glenn Greenwald Finally Goes Full Full Mask Off

[mugurumakensei]

In case you think Glenn Greenwald isn't downplaying child separation pol

Yelling "racist" as an "argument" in the immigration debate

All in a single one-line post , Oliver Willis manages to perfectly illustrate the cheapest, most intellectually dishonest -- and, for those ...

glenngreenwald.blogspot.com

he's fairly anti-undocumented immigrants and racist

 

[WishIwasAwolf]

Glenn Greenwald's essentially saying he's okay with mass imprisonment of children and separating them from their family.

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Guess he is okay with that, unless it's in a CIA black site, because "Obama bad" or whatever he was spouting

 

[shinobi602]

Not really sure what the problem is here?

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Ermm...

"Other than some tweets and unusual personality affects, there's been nothing "abnormal" about the Trump presidency compared to what came before it"

This is complete bullshit.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I don't think any of us would dispute that Trump's mishandling of COVID-19 cost tens of thousands of lives. I disagree with Greenwald on that, I think it's a moral shame what Trump did there. But the total loss of life due to Bush's illegitimate war in the Middle East is higher than the current COVID-19 death toll. I think it's fair to say that Trump and Bush are comparably bad.

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But that's not what he's doing

That last tweet is key.

He says liberals were more justified going after Bush than Trump

This isn't an equation it's a Trump isn't that bad

 

[GuessMyUserName]

Blowing my mind right now the president has been openly advocating vigilante murderers for his political enemies - civilian and otherwise - and we got people nodding their heads to "Other than some tweets and unusual personality affects, there's been nothing "abnormal" about the Trump presidency compared to what came before it"

You don't have to be 100% reductive on the unique sewage of Donald Trump to make the point of not sitting back on status quo politics.

 

[RailWays]

Ah yes, "both sides."
Such eloquence

But I do agree with his first point that people better not be back to tuning out if Biden is elected. Falling asleep at the wheel will just bring another Trump around into the seat eventually.

 

[Armaros]

Are those supposed to be counter points? I agree with all of this. America was rotten before trump and will continue to be so after him (even though he escalated it to a new level in many ways)

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So trump was really bad but not that bad.

All of this to rationalize support for a journalist who supports Trump.

Trump who right now is arguing political violence against his political opponents and people who vote against him.

 

[etrain911]

Yes, but then we've been through this before, with Obama... who kept Guantanamo open, bombed Libya to pieces, expanded fracking and fossil fuel production, separated families at border, oversaw a mass spying regime that he vindictively hunted down whistleblowers for, slashed social security while giving billions to the banks, gave full support to Gates assault on teacher unions in favour of charter schools, expanded nuclear weapons programmes...

But hey that doesn't hurt Obama's rep among the people liking social media videos of him hitting balls in basketball hoops and subscribing to his annual Spotify playlist of the year's best hits so what do I know right?

For centrist liberals to read the above and then say you're a secret Trump supporter! rather than actually responding to a reasonable far-left criticism of how much they keep fucking up year after year is utterly tiresome - and will lead to the rise of more fascists like Trump.

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Yup, Obama surrounded himself with people like Rahm Emannuel, it's possible to both not like and criticize Biden and hate Trump, the two goals are not incongruent and it isn't voter suppression or whatever to talk about it on twitter on election day.

 

[The Turbanator]

While possible I find it highly inprobable

You don't tear the house down like Trump has and rebuild it exactly the same

Shit has changed in the past 15 years

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I would hope so but Biden hasn't given anybody much hope on that front. It looks like he wants to be an Obama part 2, which is okay, but look at what happened after Obama to see what's wrong with that.

 

[HStallion]

Dude is raging that no one gave a shit about the Hunter Biden stuff that he quit his job over.

 

[DrROBschiz]

I mean, voting and electing Biden is the first step. The idea of voting, electing Biden and forgetting about the bigger scope is stupid and I seriously hope no one is saying that, electing Biden is the beginning of a more involved population, with a President that might be able to put things back on track.

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Seems obvious right?

And him laying a larger share of the blame for America's problems on the Democrats instead of.... American culture as a whole

Is fucking asinine and unproductive

They ain't saints but Democrats are the closest thing we have trying to reverse any of his grievances. Like how does supporting any alternatives by comparison alter his stance?

 

[Davilmar]

Strawmanning hardcore

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Took the words out of my mouth. Biden is absolutely garbage, but am I voting for him to get rid of Trump? You bet your ass I am. And people talk about "masks off" on ERA. My goodness.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

"But *bunch of stuff Bush set in motion that Obama had to handle like a hot poker*" isn't the defense of "both sides" that Glenn thinks it is. Nor would anyone with beyond a casual reading of American politics pretend that the Obama admin wasn't hamstrung, intentionally, by an obstructionist GOP Congress after 2010.

If the sum total of the Trump presidency for Glenn is that the two men treated American institutions exactly the same than he's a bigger fool than I thought.

 

[strudelkuchen]

I mean, voting and electing Biden is the first step. The idea of voting, electing Biden and forgetting about the bigger scope is stupid and I seriously hope no one is saying that, electing Biden is the beginning of a more involved population, with a President that might be able to put things back on track.

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Biden is/was basically running on "back to normalcy".
Sadly, a large majority off the Dem. base is/was content with the status quo before Trump.

Glenn is not wrong on that.

 

[JasonV]

For all the "what's wrong with these tweets?" crowd, Glenn is now saying out loud what has been clear for a while: his main goal is disseminating the notion that the Democratic Party is terrible and he obviously doesn't give a shit about anything else other than that, even if it means aiding Trump. It's why he was so dismissive of "russiagate", it's why he hasn't done jack shit to unfuck the life of Reality Winner, he has absolutely zero interest in matters that aren't directly related to exposing how bad Democrats are. He'll openly reverberate alt-right talking points and pal around with Tucker Carlson as long as it amplifies his anti-Democrat message.

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This is true as well.

There might not be anything wrong with the tweets- but hes acting in bad faith.

 

[HardRojo]

Seems obvious right?

And him laying a larger share of the blame for America's problems on the Democrats instead of.... American culture as a whole

Is fucking asinine and unproductive

They ain't saints but Democrats are the closest thing we have trying to reverse any of his grievances. Like how does supporting any alternatives by comparison alter his stance?

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Oh yeah, completely agree with you there. Dude's stating the obvious here and while I agree to some degree regarding the status quo, putting the whole thing on Democrats is, as you put it, asinine.

 

[Soda]

Yes, but then we've been through this before, with Obama... who kept Guantanamo open, bombed Libya to pieces, expanded fracking and fossil fuel production, separated families at border, oversaw a mass spying regime that he vindictively hunted down whistleblowers for, slashed social security while giving billions to the banks, gave full support to Gates assault on teacher unions in favour of charter schools, expanded nuclear weapons programmes...

But hey that doesn't hurt Obama's rep among the people liking social media videos of him hitting balls in basketball hoops and subscribing to his annual Spotify playlist of the year's best hits so what do I know right?

For centrist liberals to read the above and then say you're a secret Trump supporter! rather than actually responding to a reasonable far-left criticism of how much they keep fucking up year after year is utterly tiresome - and will lead to the rise of more fascists like Trump.

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I voted for Obama both times and Biden this time and I detect no lies. Trump sucks and is awful, but Obama is at best a mid-level President in total rankings. He had some good things, for sure, but also some pretty awful things, whether they were by the design of his Administration or by extending prior Administrations' bad policies.

With that said, of course I'd take Biden over Trump. I also suspect that we'll see Biden's Presidency similar to Obama's: some good advances, some things staying the same, and regression in other areas. I'm hopeful that Democrats slowly inching into more progressive policies will save the Biden Presidency from the same failures that Obama's gave us. And, of course, this is all assuming Biden wins. If Trump wins it's definitely a worse situation overall.

 

[Deleted member 2752]

Ermm...

"Other than some tweets and unusual personality affects, there's been nothing "abnormal" about the Trump presidency compared to what came before it"

This is complete bullshit.

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He's comparing him to atrocities the US has done before, especially under other Republicans. I don't see how he's incorrect here.

 

[spam musubi]

So trump was really bad but not that bad.

All of this to rationalize support for a journalist who supports Trump.

Trump who right now is arguing political violence against his political opponents and people who vote against him.

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I am sorry that you are unable to comprehend what I wrote. I hope that you can understand that as a middle eastern immigrant, going back to pre-trump america is not a notion that is safe and happy for me. Every single post I've made here I have clearly qualified that Trump is worse in many ways. But the "before" state wasn't good either. That doesn't mean Trump "isn't that bad". Two opposite things can be bad at the same time, and very bad can get even worse. But I understand that for you it must have been a very comfortable life before trump and you yearn to go back to it.

 

[strudelkuchen]

For all the "what's wrong with these tweets?" crowd, Glenn is now saying out loud what has been clear for a while: his main goal is disseminating the notion that the Democratic Party is terrible and he obviously doesn't give a shit about anything else other than that, even if it means aiding Trump. It's why he was so dismissive of "russiagate", it's why he hasn't done jack shit to unfuck the life of Reality Winner, he has absolutely zero interest in matters that aren't directly related to exposing how bad Democrats are. He'll openly reverberate alt-right talking points and pal around with Tucker Carlson as long as it amplifies his anti-Democrat message.

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They are terrible, the Republicans are just way worse.

 

[beansontoast]

Can we all agree to just ignore GG? He's just a tiresome, obsessively contrarian bore, who's becoming more red-brown and fash adjacent by the day in his quest to seek attention.

 

[Rats]

But that's not what he's doing

That last tweet is key.

He says liberals were more justified going after Bush than Trump

This isn't an equation it's a Trump isn't that bad

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Where's the lie? Trump couldn't match Bush's body count in his wildest dreams. People around here have short memories.

 

[Deleted member 4346]

He's normalizing Trump. Pretty much defending him really.

All this is to encourage people to either vote Trump or stay home.

There has been plenty abnormal and to pretend Trump is just different because he tweets and talks quirky.

He's not comparing Trump to Bush, he's comparing Trumo favorably to Bush.

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I must be misreading the tweets. Because this:



is a perspective that much of the left would agree with, and it's not normalizing Trump. I've posted this exact same sentiment myself. The election of Obama killed the anti-authoritarian and anti-corporate movements in the US and war crimes became normalized. I'm very concerned about that happening again after the 2020 election.

But that's not what he's doing

That last tweet is key.

He says liberals were more justified going after Bush than Trump

This isn't an equation it's a Trump isn't that bad

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Greenwald prioritizes foreign policy, issues of the surveillance state and so on. From a that standpoint, Bush was a worse president than Trump. From a domestic standpoint, Trump has been a worse president. I disagree that liberals are more justified going after Bush, I think on the whole both of these Republican presidents should be in prison for what they did while in office. Bush for his war crimes, and Trump for corruption and jailing/sterilizing immigrant women and children.

 

[WedgeX]

"But *bunch of stuff Bush set in motion that Obama had to handle like a hot poker*" isn't the defense of "both sides" that Glenn thinks it is. Nor would anyone with beyond a casual reading of American politics pretend that the Obama admin wasn't hamstrung, intentionally, by an obstructionist GOP Congress after 2010.

If the sum total of the Trump presidency for Glenn is that the two men treated American institutions exactly the same than he's a bigger fool than I thought.

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I appreciate this framing.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Biden is/was basically running on "back to normalcy".
Sadly, a large majority off the Dem. base is/was content with the status quo before Trump.

Glenn is not wrong on that.

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I believe his Slogan right now is "Build Back Better"

And he is a guaranteed one term president and every inclination by the majority of the party has been to promote and hand the reigns to a younger and more active generation?

Did every one conveniently forget how hard Obama has been pushing more people to get more actively involved while Republicans focus solely on supression?

Hold them accountable for their mistakes and hell hold Americans to account for our sins. But Glenn is missing the mark here

 

[strudelkuchen]

But that's not what he's doing

That last tweet is key.

He says liberals were more justified going after Bush than Trump

This isn't an equation it's a Trump isn't that bad

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Bush Jr. is the worst president in modern times.

 

[onadesertedisland]

This is who he's always been. Dude is so bitter about the the US he's willing to watch it all burn just for revenge.

Just stop giving him attention.

 

[Codeblue]

Also nice of folks that agree with Glenn meaning they agree that Trump has not done anything that bad comparatively to anything else.

As over 200 thousand people are dead because of how terribly this administration has dealt with Covid.

But it seems your innate hatred of Biden has let folks forget what Trump has actually done or not done within this very year.

Seems like this isn't just masks off for Glenn, its masks off for this Forum.

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How many died in Iraq?

Glenn sucks, but this isn't controversial.

 

[CerealKi11a]

Broken clock is right twice a day. Even if his whole point is probably just to discredit Democrats and normalize Trumps's behavior.

This election's momentum can't just stop if Biden wins. We need real progress.

 

[Rodderick]

They are terrible, the Republicans are just way worse.

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And if you devote your life and work solely to the "Democrats are terrible" part you have to excuse me if I'm not really buying you believe "the Republicans are way worse" because 95% of the time he leaves that part unsaid. I mean, dude was really out there writing a column about completely unverified information propagated by Rudy Giuliani days from the election after spending four years mocking people for believing "russiagate". He's a Trump enabler in the most charitable of interpretations.

 

[shinobi602]

He's comparing him to atrocities the US has done before, especially under other Republicans. I don't see how he's incorrect here.

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If we want to cherry pick and focus on atrocities, yes every American presidency has its share. But to assign Trump just 'some tweets' or personality issues is a gross reduction of the democratic norms that have been shattered because of this man. The DOJ is basically his personal law firm, he denies science, literally cozies up to dictators around the world while actively fighting against our allies, undermined basic democratic processes here like elections, has genuinely embraced white supremacy out in the open and puts people's lives in danger through his words. For God's sake, we have businesses being boarded up and the White House converted into a fortress. We're genuinely on the cusp of sliding into an authoritarian regime.

None of this has happened before. None of this is "normal".

It's completely asinine and incredibly irresponsible to compare this presidency in totality to what's come before in modern American history.

 

[excelsiorlef]

[

Greenwald prioritizes foreign policy, issues of the surveillance state and so on. From a that standpoint, Bush was a worse president than Trump. From a domestic standpoint, Trump has been a worse president. I disagree that liberals are more justified going after Bush, I think as a whole both of these Republican presidents should be in prison. Bush for his war crimes, and Trump for corruption and jailing/sterilizing immigrant women and children.

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Glenn Greenwald doesn't think Trump should go to prison though, Greenwald thinks Trump should get a 2nd term because Biden is the true authoritarian threat.

That's really what he'd saying here

 

[alexiswrite]

This is like the best example of how you can kinda be right to a degree, but kinda ruin it by being so bad faith in the way you represent things. Like Bernie Sanders is saying something substantially similar, but not being super bad faith about it.

 

[asmith906]

Other than some tweets and unusual personality affects, there's been nothing "abnormal" about the Trump presidency compared to what came before it, and no matter who wins

How can he look at the last 3 years and say this presidency was normal.

These are things that happened just this year.

A war with Iran almost happened
A literal pandemic in the United States where the government not only tried to ignore it that actively stole PPE from states to resell at a higher price.
Massive civil unrest and riots that left cities on fire and the president going out of his way to stock the flames
Rise of QANON (arguably the most dangerous) and right wing extremist.

If you can look at all of that and say both sides are the same you are the fucking problem.

 

[Brinbe]

What an embarrassing asswipe

 

[JaseC64]

Day of election. Get the 2 bit dictator out.

Also the only people comparing Obama to a dictator were those Tea Baggers, Pre-Magats. Guess Tea Baggers gonna make a comeback full force. "Oh no look at Biden the dictator." Gimme a break.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Bush Jr. is the worst president in modern times.

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And this thread doesn't exist if that's all Glenn was saying.

And Glenn was defending Bush at the time so that makes his shit here even more pathetic

 

[Kino]

Bush Jr. is the worst president in modern times.

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Is that supposed to make Trump less bad? He's basically using a whataboutism to downplay Trump's atrocities.

 

[TheBiggerBum]

And if you devote your life and work solely to the "Democrats are terrible" part you have to excuse me if I'm not really buying you believe "the Republicans are way worse" because 95% of the time he leaves that part unsaid.

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If you're talking about discussion on here - I think it's entirely fair for someone to spend all their time criticising Democrats and less Republicans, because there aren't any Republicans here to argue with. It adds nothing to the discussion to talk at length about how evil they are because that's already a foregone conclusion.

The fact that people on here can't just take someone at face value on their position is utterly tiresome and irritating.

 

[kadotsu]

If we want to cherry pick and focus on atrocities, yes every American presidency has its share. But to assign Trump just 'some tweets' or personality issues is a gross reduction of the democratic norms that have been shattered because of this man. The DOJ is basically his personal law firm, he denies science, literally cozies up to dictators around the world while actively fighting against our allies, has genuinely embraced white supremacy out in the open and puts people's lives in danger through his words. For God's sake, we have businesses being boarded up and the White House converted into a fortress. We're genuinely on the cusp of sliding into an authoritarian regime.

None of this has happened before. None of this is "normal".

It's completely asinine to compare this presidency in totality to what's come before in modern American history.

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Patriot act is an order of magnitude worse than anything Trump has done. Hell 90% of the shit he pulled was only possible because of it.

 

[mael]

Where's the lie? Trump couldn't match Bush's body count in his wildest dreams. People around here have short memories.

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I mean before 2020 sure, I don't think Bush killed over 200k Americans because he was lazy as fuck though.

 

[Papaya]

Ermm...

"Other than some tweets and unusual personality affects, there's been nothing "abnormal" about the Trump presidency compared to what came before it"

This is complete bullshit.

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Compared to bush? Not really. In some ways it could be argued Bush was worse, even. Trump took everything bad about America and made it worse. Bush destabilized the Middle East, and created much of the turmoil we are still dealing w today. Trump put kids in cages. Tho Bush created ICE...

no doubt Trump could have been worse, but his incompetence stopped him. Bush didn't have that problem.

 

[Deleted member 2752]

I mean before 2020 sure, I don't think Bush killed over 200k Americans because he was lazy as fuck though.

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One of the problems of US politics is that only American bodies count.

 

[strudelkuchen]

Is that supposed to make Trump less bad? He's basically using a whataboutism to downplay Trump's atrocities.

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He's saying it's par for the course and trump is just a symptom.

 

[Rodderick]

If you're talking about discussion on here - I think it's entirely fair for someone to spend all their time criticising Democrats and less Republicans, because there aren't any Republicans here to argue with. It adds nothing to the discussion to talk at length about how evil they are because that's already a foregone conclusion.

The fact that people on here can't just take someone at face value on their position is utterly tiresome and irritating.

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I'm talking about Glenn Greenwald and his life's work, not about posters on ResetEra. I'm taking Glenn Greenwald 100% face value on his position that the Democratic Party is the true evil America needs to vanquish. Because that's what he believes.

 

[Deleted member 6230]

This is like the best example of how you can kinda be right to a degree, but kinda ruin it by being so bad faith in the way you represent things. Like Bernie Sanders is saying something substantially similar, but not being super bad faith about it.

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I'm not sure if it's bad faith I just think he's being a prick with his framing and tone but parsing through that I don't think he's wrong lol

 

[NinjaScooter]

I mean before 2020 sure, I don't think Bush killed over 200k Americans because he was lazy as fuck though.

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he killed 200K Iraqi civilians because "reasons" tho.

 

[TheBiggerBum]

I'm talking about Glenn Greenwald and his life's work, not about posters on ResetEra.

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Sorry ok that's fair enough. Especially after his cosy Tucker Carlson appearance.

he killed 200K Iraqi civilians because "reasons" tho.

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Unfortunately even in centrist discourse, Americans are worth more than anyone else.

 

[Quad Lasers]

The broad strokes of what Greenwald is saying is accurate, which is that the fundamental policies Trump pushed are typical Republican bullshit, but packaged and delivered through a loud, boorish dipshit with an extra dysfunctional administration. That's why you ultimately got so many Republicans with so little backbone these past four years. He was still ultimately doing the things they wanted him to do, despite his bullshit "outsider" status from the onset.

Greenwald's an idiot though and in typical fashion downplays how damaging the rampant and overt racism/xenophobia is going to have on this country long term.

 

[shinobi602]

Patriot act is an order of magnitude worse than anything Trump has done. Hell 90% of the shit he pulled was only possible because of it.

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So you think if Bush were running right now for example, we'd be in this same exact situation? Or if one of the other Republican candidates in 2016 won? Romney?