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Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,906
How is this any different than all of the previous cycles then? What fundamentals have changed?

The entire concept of crypto as an asset is based on trust because it's inherently made up and unregulated. The deluge of scams and failures have eroded that trust, drying up new money. BTC is also basically bounced off the ceiling - to get any further it would need to become a de facto currency. That's not going to happen because, again, the entire thing is an unregulated shitshow that preys on people.
 

Coen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
721
Antwerp, Belgium
I can't believe so many are open about investing in crypto while it's common knowledge it's terrible for the environment. If you feel like gambling with your money, there's way less harmful ways to do it.
 

Arta

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,445
Put $3k into BTC and ETH in October. Down to ~$850.

Should I really pull out or there's a decent chance they will go back up? It was basically just play money, no big deal if I lose it... but BTC and ETH wouldn't just completely go away?
If it's just play money you can leave it, but it will take more than a year to go back up even in the best circumstances. Risky assets are off the table for speculators and investors until the recession is over AND FED interest rates start going back down AND macro economic headwinds like the War in Ukraine, supply chain issues, lockdown in China, food shortage, etc are abated.
 

Exposure

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,654
well I imagine answering that question's going be pointless like it is evey time crypto evangelists show up, but:

The big problem from what' shappened so far is that you're seeing bigger and bigger places start to crack because it's really starting to look like the way a lot of these crypto works was going maximum hodl and leveraging themselves through crypto assets, and then hard running into problems when those crypto assets depreciated in value to the point companies can no longer afford the prices they've incurred.

Add in the reluctance among the parts of the biggest backers to actually go through a detailed audit or being sketchy with the details that makes it seem like they also did the exact thing, and you got the recipe for seeing if Tether can outrun the problem it made for itself before "ok so you're out of liquid assets but people still want to redeem tether for actual cash" happens.
 

Divvy

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,899
How is this any different than all of the previous cycles then? What fundamentals have changed?
The entire existence of crypto over the last decade has been in an economic environment incredibly favorable to its growth with record low interest rates. With interest rates as high as they are now, and with inflation and an impending recession, we are in uncharted territories for crypto. This is not to say that it can't go back up, but you can't point to past performance and say it is a given.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,320
Put $3k into BTC and ETH in October. Down to ~$850.

Should I really pull out or there's a decent chance they will go back up? It was basically just play money, no big deal if I lose it... but BTC and ETH wouldn't just completely go away?
Long answer: Don't take this as me being insulting, but if you're dropping $3,000 into something and you're asking people on Era for advice for when to sell or to buy the asset, you probably shouldn't be dropping that kind of money into something that you're not confident in your knowledge about. You said that $3,000 is "play money" so it's all good in the end I guess, but it's alarming to me when I see people go onto a gaming forum asking about whether or not a speculative asset will go up or down. That's your investment. You should know what to do with the money you're investing and not crowdsourcing answers.

Short answer: Roll a set of dice and make your choice. It's an asset with speculative value. It's virtual beanie babies.
 

tripleg

Alt Account
Banned
Jul 30, 2020
1,132

Assume this is a bad faith request, but here you go:

Oil:


Gold:

earthworks.org

Environmental Impacts of Gold Mining - Earthworks

Gold mining can contaminate drinking water and destroy pristine environments, endangering the health of people and ecosystems.

Printing Money:

www.thebigchilli.com

A LOOK AT THE SUSTAINABILITY OF CURRENCY

World Environment Day & Celebrates 50 Years of Earth Day:


My point being, 'crypto is bad for the environment' is a weak argument when all the other standards have been destroying the very core of our earth as well.
 

construct

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Jun 5, 2020
7,932
東京
Oh the bad faith continues! Guess we can't discuss point by point - crypto is the devil guys, pack it up.
saying "creating another but useless destructive currency is fine" is not a discussion worth having. i drive an ev, haven't held cash in decades and don't buy gold and will criticize those as well, happy? feel free to point me to threads with those discussions and ill be there to state my opinion even though is obvious how terrible it is that these have use cases and some need to rely on those things to live. unlike crypto, which has zero use even if you want to spout the "but decentralization!" garbage that you actually don't care about.

but if you want to discuss, let's do it! be sure to be transparent and tell us your wins, losses and current holdings
 
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Exposure

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,654
I mean we can point out stuff like crypto being fucking horrendous utility wise all things considered by comparison but we've been through this song and dance before and it always, always ends in people going "you'll regret not hodling on" because every time y'all always break whatever character you have to reveal you're just yet again trying to evangelize crypto to skeptiics

past a point it stopped being funny and just started being very annoying
 

Jebusman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,081
Halifax, NS
Oh the bad faith continues! Guess we can't discuss point by point - crypto is the devil guys, pack it up.

Are you the same guy who thinks crypto shouldn't be held to the same standards of banks, because banks have had 100+ years to learn from their mistakes and thus crypto (being only ~10 years old) has to go through the exact same history before it's fair to criticize them?
 

beelulzebub

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,583
Oh the bad faith continues! Guess we can't discuss point by point - crypto is the devil guys, pack it up.
Not bad faith. It's essentially what you're saying.

There is a meaningful use case for the three things you listed. And they're so engrained in society that even if you want to avoid them, you can't do so completely (except gold perhaps), so people that choose to participate in society have no choice but to use oil and printed money to an extent.

You can limit your consumption of oil to an extent, but unless you walk and bike everywhere and never buy any plastic and never have anything shipped to you, you can't completely avoid it. Petroleum products ship products around the globe, including to any stores you go to. You can avoid printed money if you're privileged enough to rely completely on credit or debit cards, but the poorest among us can't.

Crypto has no use case beyond existing as a speculative vehicle for libertarians to cream themselves over and for normies to either get lucky or lose big and as a result it is killing the planet for no real good practical reason. Also unlike oil and printed money, it is a thing you consciously choose to engage in. You can easily live your entire life without ever engaging in crypto markets.
 

TrAcEr_x90

Member
Oct 27, 2017
831
Long answer: Don't take this as me being insulting, but if you're dropping $3,000 into something and you're asking people on Era for advice for when to sell or to buy the asset, you probably shouldn't be dropping that kind of money into something that you're not confident in your knowledge about. You said that $3,000 is "play money" so it's all good in the end I guess, but it's alarming to me when I see people go onto a gaming forum asking about whether or not a speculative asset will go up or down. That's your investment. You should know what to do with the money you're investing and not crowdsourcing answers.

Short answer: Roll a set of dice and make your choice. It's an asset with speculative value. It's virtual beanie babies.
I completely agree. It's hilarious to me how people throw money at crypto without even taking more than a few days to study how the market works and the different companies that have actually survived more than 1 year. I've been in this crypto "game" for 2.5 years and it takes a ton of time and effort to research to come up with profits. Won some and lost some. I'm happy to experience my first bear market and accumulate. Only people with the mental fortitude to make it through this time in the market will actually make profits.
 

Coen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
721
Antwerp, Belgium
Assume this is a bad faith request, but here you go:

Oil:


Gold:

earthworks.org

Environmental Impacts of Gold Mining - Earthworks

Gold mining can contaminate drinking water and destroy pristine environments, endangering the health of people and ecosystems.

Printing Money:

www.thebigchilli.com

A LOOK AT THE SUSTAINABILITY OF CURRENCY

World Environment Day & Celebrates 50 Years of Earth Day:


My point being, 'crypto is bad for the environment' is a weak argument when all the other standards have been destroying the very core of our earth as well.

So your rational is we can't be critical of crypto because there's other environmentaly terrible investment options? I fail to see the logic there, sorry.

It's obvious people just don't care and are in it for a quick profit.
 

construct

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Jun 5, 2020
7,932
東京
one extremely funny thing is the people who wagged their finger at some of us because we are "laughing that investors are losing their money over this" meanwhile crypto bros are out there hoping it drops more so they can "complete their coin" or whatever dumb phrase they like to use. straight up scammers
 

Johnny956

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,928
So your rational is we can't be critical of crypto because there's other environmentaly terrible investment options? I fail to see the logic there, sorry.

It's obvious people just don't care and are in it for a quick profit.


It's such a useless argument too. The amount of energy required just to trade Bitcoin is ridiculous and comparing that to anything else in the stock market. Even Ethereum which is substantially better then Bitcoin is still exponentially worse
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,290
Oh the bad faith continues! Guess we can't discuss point by point - crypto is the devil guys, pack it up.
The one thing you're casually ignoring is that unlike crypto oil and gold are actually things that are actively used by humanity. While they come with a significant environmental cost they serve a practical purpose and aren't just a glorified pyramide scheme trying to market itself as currency so bunch of rich people can get even richer.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,714
It's such a useless argument too. The amount of energy required just to trade Bitcoin is ridiculous and comparing that to anything else in the stock market. Even Ethereum which is substantially better then Bitcoin is still exponentially worse

Fwiw, bitcoin and other coin trading is done off the blockchain on private ledgers because the protocols can't support that usage.
 

McScroggz

The Fallen
Jan 11, 2018
5,971
Oh the bad faith continues! Guess we can't discuss point by point - crypto is the devil guys, pack it up.

So your argument is that if things that have intrinsic value (oil and gold) or paper money that is a physical representation of a fiat currency (one that I assume is declining in production, and should be if it's not) can produce harmful waste then it's ok for something that has literally no intrinsic value should be ok too? Because that's a weak argument.

And let's also not pretend like when people say it harms the environment that's the only issue. That may just be the most important issue out of many that they choose to mention in passing.
 

Stooge

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,136
And yet oil and Gold have practical uses for society while crypto has zero. And most of us are also wanting to become less dependent on fossil fuels and strip mining. Funny that we can walk and chew gum at the same time when it comes to environmental issues.

It's not really worth getting into, there is a chearleading section around here and while I suspect some of them are true believers most of them are brrrr line goes up and a contingent of them seem to be into minting currencies so they are in on the grift side of things.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,042
"Oil and gold are bad too so who cares if we add the CO2 output of Greece on the fire?"

news.climate.columbia.edu

Cryptocurrency’s Dirty Secret: Energy Consumption

To be a true game changer, crypto may need to come clean and go green.
And yet oil and Gold have practical uses for society while crypto has zero. And most of us are also wanting to become less dependent on fossil fuels and strip mining. Funny that we can walk and chew gum at the same time when it comes to environmental issues.

It's not really worth getting into, there is a chearleading section around here and while I suspect some of them are true believers most of them are brrrr line goes up and a contingent of them seem to be into minting currencies so they are in on the grift side of things.
I know this because i watch Gold Rush on Discovery. But in Canada, USA, and New Zealand before you start gold mining you have to have hard money(you can't touch no matter what) and a plan to reclaim the land after you done.
 

Culex

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,844
Crypto supporters have now sunk so low they are going "so what if it harms the environment? So does everything else!"

This is where we are now at.
 

WhySoDevious

Member
Oct 31, 2017
8,451

Bah… I posted that as a thread weeks ago and it got locked.

www.resetera.com

Man who paid $2.9m for NFT of Jack Dorsey’s first tweet set to lose almost $2.9m News

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/apr/14/twitter-nft-jack-dorsey-sina-estavi It's all a scam, folks. The only way he could ever recover that money is by convincing an idiot bigger than himself that what he is trying to sell is worth $2.9m. That's why you see so many ads trying to...
 
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tripleg

Alt Account
Banned
Jul 30, 2020
1,132
Not bad faith. It's essentially what you're saying.

There is a meaningful use case for the three things you listed. And they're so engrained in society that even if you want to avoid them, you can't do so completely (except gold perhaps), so people that choose to participate in society have no choice but to use oil and printed money to an extent.

You can limit your consumption of oil to an extent, but unless you walk and bike everywhere and never buy any plastic and never have anything shipped to you, you can't completely avoid it. Petroleum products ship products around the globe, including to any stores you go to. You can avoid printed money if you're privileged enough to rely completely on credit or debit cards, but the poorest among us can't.

Crypto has no use case beyond existing as a speculative vehicle for libertarians to cream themselves over and for normies to either get lucky or lose big and as a result it is killing the planet for no real good practical reason. Also unlike oil and printed money, it is a thing you consciously choose to engage in. You can easily live your entire life without ever engaging in crypto markets.

saying "creating another destructive currency but it's main feature is that it has no use is fine" is not a discussion worth having. i drive an ev, haven't held cash in decades and don't buy gold and will criticize those as well, happy? feel free to point me to threads with those discussions and ill be there to state my opinion even though is obvious how terrible it is that these have use cases and some need to rely on those things to live. unlike crypto, which has zero use even if you want to spout the "but decentralization!" garbage that you actually don't care about.

but if you want to discuss, let's do it! be sure to be transparent and tell us your wins, losses and current holdings

Are you the same guy who thinks crypto shouldn't be held to the same standards of banks, because banks have had 100+ years to learn from their mistakes and thus crypto (being only ~10 years old) has to go through the exact same history before it's fair to criticize them?


I'm sure you guys don't mean to do this, but you come off as very single-hive-minded in your responses. You guys hit the same rhetoric over and over with your obvious hatred of Crypto - which is fine, it's why I ducked out of this thread but you guys sorely reminded me to stay away.

My only point, which you guys seem to have dismissed to have your own (again, very similar) argument is that looking at Crypto as bad because "it's bad for the environment' is a nonsensical talking point, if (and I know this is very hard for you all to imagine) it did replace a major currency, it could be a net positive for the environment.

But nah, I'll just go back to avoiding this thread.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,326
I'm sure you guys don't mean to do this, but you come off as very single-hive-minded in your responses. You guys hit the same rhetoric over and over with your obvious hatred of Crypto - which is fine, it's why I ducked out of this thread but you guys sorely reminded me to stay away.

My only point, which you guys seem to have dismissed to have your own (again, very similar) argument is that looking at Crypto as bad because "it's bad for the environment' is a nonsensical talking point, if (and I know this is very hard for you all to imagine) it did replace a major currency, it could be a net positive for the environment.

But nah, I'll just go back to avoiding this thread.

tumblr_n90u98SqID1refhi9o6_250.gifv
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,320
I'm sure you guys don't mean to do this, but you come off as very single-hive-minded in your responses. You guys hit the same rhetoric over and over with your obvious hatred of Crypto - which is fine, it's why I ducked out of this thread but you guys sorely reminded me to stay away.
They said, reverting back to the crypto talking points playbook. There is no shred of joking with your posts which is sending me.
 

construct

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Jun 5, 2020
7,932
東京
My only point, which you guys seem to have dismissed to have your own (again, very similar) argument is that looking at Crypto as bad because "it's bad for the environment' is a nonsensical talking point, if (and I know this is very hard for you all to imagine) it did replace a major currency, it could be a net positive for the environment.
an opposing logical view based in reality is not "hive mind". crypto will never replace major currency. it can't. it has zero benefits over current monetary mediums. you can't have that conversation until it has a solid foundation to exist, which is does not.
 

beelulzebub

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,583
I'm sure you guys don't mean to do this, but you come off as very single-hive-minded in your responses. You guys hit the same rhetoric over and over with your obvious hatred of Crypto - which is fine, it's why I ducked out of this thread but you guys sorely reminded me to stay away.

My only point, which you guys seem to have dismissed to have your own (again, very similar) argument is that looking at Crypto as bad because "it's bad for the environment' is a nonsensical talking point, if (and I know this is very hard for you all to imagine) it did replace a major currency, it could be a net positive for the environment.

But nah, I'll just go back to avoiding this thread.
You could try engaging with my argument like I did yours instead of ducking and running and painting what I wrote with a broad brush. Real hard at this point to not look at you claiming we're a bad faith hive mind as anything but projection at this point but I'm willing to hear you out if you want to demonstrate otherwise.
 

tripleg

Alt Account
Banned
Jul 30, 2020
1,132
User Banned (3 Weeks): Trolling and continued thread derailment over multiple posts.
an opposing view, logical, view is not "hive mind". crypto will never replace major currency, its not a rational though based in reality. it has zero benefits over current monetary mediums.

I'm not saying an opposing one is a hive mind, I'm saying using the same rhetoric and talking points that are rattled off in this thread, and even the dismissive laughing, is indication of a hive mind.

Also - your assertions are bold, I'll give you that, but I don't understand the reason for trying to drown the idea before it even has some level of fruition (unless you just get off on hating anything new/trendy, in which case go ahead).
 

Pwnz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,279
Places
Something that is often lost with crypto supporters is that we aren't trying to win argument. Crypto is what it is, a Ponzi scheme. We are trying to help them realize it, before they lose everything.
 

construct

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Jun 5, 2020
7,932
東京
I'm not saying an opposing one is a hive mind, I'm saying using the same rhetoric and talking points that are rattled off in this thread, and even the dismissive laughing, is indication of a hive mind.

Also - your assertions are bold, I'll give you that, but I don't understand the reason for trying to drown the idea before it even has some level of fruition (unless you just get off on hating anything new/trendy, in which case go ahead).
because its yet to prove its need to exist in any sort of manner. literally there is not one positive use case. it does not deserve to exist unless it goes back to the drawing board and refactor everything about it

honestly, do you care about the technology behind it? I don't see how anyone can care if they knows how inefficient its pros/cons are.
 

HMS_Pinafore

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,146
Straya M8
I'm sure you guys don't mean to do this, but you come off as very single-hive-minded in your responses. You guys hit the same rhetoric over and over with your obvious hatred of Scientology - which is fine, it's why I ducked out of this thread but you guys sorely reminded me to stay away.

My only point, which you guys seem to have dismissed to have your own (again, very similar) argument is that looking at Scientology as bad because "it's bad for the families' is a nonsensical talking point, if (and I know this is very hard for you all to imagine) it did replace a major religion, it could be a net positive for the environment.

But nah, I'll just go back to avoiding this thread.
 

tripleg

Alt Account
Banned
Jul 30, 2020
1,132
You could try engaging with my argument like I did yours instead of ducking and running and painting what I wrote with a broad brush.

I did, and your point didn't address mine.

I also can't take anyone who types this:

"Crypto has no use case beyond existing as a speculative vehicle for libertarians to cream themselves over and for normies to either get lucky or lose big and as a result it is killing the planet for no real good practical reason."

and is trying to have a serious conversation, this seems more like the regurgitated nonsense all the other posters are spewing.

What about ETFs, are they also speculative vechiles? the stock market itself?

Could it be that most investment instruments (like housing contracts, bonds) are all speculative vehicles? like what are you even trying to accomplish in your point?

Can you react to mine? If, crypto - or fuck, anything else were to replace gold as a currency that had a similar eco-footprint as Crypto, wouldnt that be net positive for the environment. Which was my sole and only point?
 

construct

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Jun 5, 2020
7,932
東京
I did, and your point didn't address mine.

I also can't take anyone who types this:

"Crypto has no use case beyond existing as a speculative vehicle for libertarians to cream themselves over and for normies to either get lucky or lose big and as a result it is killing the planet for no real good practical reason."

and is trying to have a serious conversation, this seems more like the regurgitated nonsense all the other posters are spewing.

What about ETFs, are they also speculative vechiles? the stock market itself?

Could it be that most investment instruments (like housing contracts, bonds) are all speculative vehicles? like what are you even trying to accomplish in your point?

Can you react to mine? If, crypto - or fuck, anything else were to replace gold as a currency that had a similar eco-footprint as Crypto, wouldnt that be net positive for the environment. Which was my sole and only point?
bro, have the conversation or don't. the stage is yours
 
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