I'm going to guess that almost nobody here thinks that's ok, either.
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Gillette ad features an unapologetic fat woman in a swimsuit; heads explode (See Staff Post)
- Thread starter PixelatedProphet
- Start date
I'm going to guess that almost nobody here thinks that's ok, either.
I've seen awareness campaigns (so ads kinda?) to not treat addicts as second class citizens and to judge/shame them. It excludes them, it depresses them, it attaches harmful stereotypes to them, it makes it harder to ask for help.
And I wouldn't object to an ad of an addict on a beach, wearing a swimsuit and being happy. The addict has every right to be there feeling good and not being ashamed. It wouldn't be glorifying the problem they have.
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How many threads and comments do we see here shaming advertisers for making being exceedingly thin acceptable? For whatever reason, A skinny model isn't shocking, or disturbing, but a large one is. And depictions of the latter is Accused of trying to make unhealthy 'acceptable" , when in reality, we shouldn't be looking to ads to determine what's acceptable- they are just trying to sell products.
Should Venus not market to large women for fear it'll make them feel too good about themselves? The way to combat obesity is by indirectly telling obese people that they aren't even good enough to be courted for their disposal income?
What kinda shit is that?
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Yeah, it's sad this is three years old even and the same shit continues happening to her. The part around 10ish minutes where she is really emotionally reaching out to people who struggle with their weight is honestly so heartbreaking. And her message back to this asshole at the end of the video is so good and i wish everyone making shitty comments in this thread was required to view it.
Who advocates for calling obese people disgusting? Others than trolls or shitty people?
My posts also pointed out how when we try to educate, either in health campaigns or even the doctors office, so much is called "fat shaming" these days. Is there widespread accusations of anorexic shaming or smoking shaming? I don't see them. Do some people unnecessarily abuse or mock those who are anorexic? Yes, they do. However, in general, being anorexic is often seen as something to respond to and encourage someone to seek help. Being morbidly obese and it's often "slay, you be you!". Not that trying to instil confidence and self-esteem in someone is wrong, but the balance often seems to be out with morbid obesity. Everything tried is just categorized as "fat shaming".
Gillette is just trying to be a "woke brand" and has absolutely no care about anything other than selling razor blades. They're the sideshow here. It's the discourse from this public drama that shows, besides the trolls, just how many people view morbid obesity as simply a "characteristic" of humanity now. Some even trying to put it alongside race, ethnicity, sexuality, etc. Immutable characteristics people cannot change.
I'm guessing that unlike drug, alcohol or smoking (where essentially any consumption is considered a health negative) that obesity sits on a range of human sizes where there is a lot of healthy sizes.
So where there is a lot of (positive) activity around moving acceptability upwards from the traditional view of skinny = healthy, the idea that there is public promotion of negativity around bigger weights (albeit the other extreme) probably feels quite damaging to the people trying to change opinions away from skinny = good.
if only the people in this thread concerned about obesity were concerned about it in terms of the packaged food industry, american fast food, and absurd portion sizes
but no, only when confronted with a fat woman do they all suddenly want to be fucking surgeon general
but no, only when confronted with a fat woman do they all suddenly want to be fucking surgeon general
But obesity is not within that "range of sizes". Obesity, like anorexia, is on the fringes. It's pushing the body to the limit, hence why health issues skyrocket with obesity, whereas being overweight within a reasonable range doesn't bring many health issues.
It almost seems like morbid obesity/obesity has just been recategorized as "within reasonable limits". As if you now need to be 550lbs before it's a concern.
You very obviously did not watch this video, because in it she talks about having an active lifestyle and how she promotes having an active lifestyle and being happy. If you're "disappointed" that Gillette would choose someone who promotes being happy and active just because she doesn't look exactly how you want her to look, that says a lot about you.
If that was explained it wouldn't bother me as much; but the message Gillete chose to go with was one that is tone deaf and cynical.
Again, my issue is with Gillete not her. Not once have I attacked her.
I think you'll find that a lot of people here are also concerned about those things, though. The woman should not be attacked, and aside from a few people who have now been banned she hasn't been.
Ehhhh.
Body shaming is horrible, but It's okay not to be attracted to a certain body type, just don't be a dick about it.
This right here.
This is the issue. You're taking the absolute worst messaging from this ad. Back in the 90's we didn't have people going around making ads about anorexia and then defending said ad's with "body positivity". We knew that eating disorders were bad.
Why do we have this attitude now?
Corporate wokeness is lame. Not as lame as being outraged by it out of a faux concern for public health, though.
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I misspoke when I said "range", I meant "scale". Although I would have thought the rest of my post would have made that obvious.
I don't see anything wrong with the ad. Don't see anything being glorified, that's insanity. Bigger people have the right to feel normal too. Nothing anyone could say to them they haven't thought themselves, so give em a break.
I remember when I was 11 or 12 years old shopping in a pet store with my family when this man, who I never met before, tormented me about my weight by laughing and making fun of me. He probably didn't see me as a person, just a thing that disgusted him. I was humilated and had no one to turn to. I wanted to run out of that place so bad to get away from him. I was already semi-depressed at that point due to how shitty people were treating me in middle school for the same exact thing. That experience traumatized me for a long time, deepened my depression, and for a while I was always anxious when I saw men that were his age at places cuz I felt like i had to brace myself for the same thing to happen again.
Obesity shouldn't be glorified but that isn't what the ad is trying to say. Obese people deserve respect and to be treated like normal people.
Obesity shouldn't be glorified but that isn't what the ad is trying to say. Obese people deserve respect and to be treated like normal people.
Sorry, that was me misreading that sentence in the first place. I took it as an implication morbid obesity sits (positively) within that range/scale you spoke of. Whereas the rest of my post went on to say that I feel it sits on the fringes, aka, an extremity. It's pushing a human body to its limits, hence why health issues skyrocket.
Nobody has to advocate for it since it's the sad reality. Listen to the vitriol that woman received in a message years ago which was so desperate to put her down that it seemed counter to its proclaimed intentions. It's not surprising that people get defensive in response.
Smoking and anorexia are not nearly met with such scorn or disgust on such a constant basis. And I haven't often seen people with anorexia portrayed as lazy, morally weak people compared to being seen as victims. And sadly, the attitudes towards obesity often contribute to the problem rather than doing anything to help with it.
Understanding the health consequences of obesity is important. But the backlash is hardly surprising. Until the culture changes, I'm not sure you'll see an improvement there. I agree that what's considered overweight has shifted in certain parts of the world. I do think that's a separate issue, though. I don't think it's honest to say that many see it as an immutable characteristic, either.
And of course corporations don't genuinely care.
People are really going nuts over everything nowadays - there are plenty of reasons why some people might be bigger and or why they can still feel totally fine/healthy with it. The Internet isnt your personal safe space.
Everyone needs to stop judging everyone and everything on the internet. No one leads a perfect life. Imagine getting triggered by the looks of a woman. I bet less people would have an issue with the same woman being miserable on a picture and re-evaluating her life choices.
They usually get bitter when someone is or appears to be happy, even though dont "deserve" it according to them.
Everyone needs to stop judging everyone and everything on the internet. No one leads a perfect life. Imagine getting triggered by the looks of a woman. I bet less people would have an issue with the same woman being miserable on a picture and re-evaluating her life choices.
They usually get bitter when someone is or appears to be happy, even though dont "deserve" it according to them.
That kind of treatment is the sad, horrible truth in South Korean culture. To the utmost extreme.
Living there, it was hard to see "overweight" women because they always looked like they wanted to jump off a bridge. They never, ever looked happy.
No worries. I just meant that while lots of stuff is black and white, the scale of human sizes ranges from not healthy to healthy and back to not healthy. So if you're trying to encourage perception along that scale it becomes trickier when someone publicly states "but don't go too far up that scale".
But would you agree "too much" might be getting repackaged as "fat shaming"? When people start to aim their targets at genuinely well-meaning doctors and places like Cancer Research UK, what exactly does that have to do with bullies, trolls and nasty people?
Unlike anorexia and smoking, which have massive negative connotations tied to them, obesity rates in both the UK and America are skyrocketing. Do you think this possibly has anything to do with not tackling it honestly to a proper degree? People just throw out "education" as an answer, as if saying a word means... progress. What about the barriers to and hostile attacks on education?
https://news.sky.com/story/seven-charts-on-the-uks-obesity-problem-11583981
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallm...-rates-have-hit-an-all-time-high-infographic/
The issues with obesity in America are probably the worst in the world, but I guess America has private health care so, who cares? As long as you can pay for yourself to be whatever you want, go for it. Whereas, the UK has a national health service so both our Government and the professionals in the industry are trying desperately to decrease the burden on state-funded healthcare.
As I said Gillette don't care, it's about appearing woke and getting people thinking "this is my kind of corporation!". But the fallout from something like this raises debate amongst the people and where the lines are between tackling obesity honestly, but with compassion, and simply going "you do you, live how you want!".
Also, me personally feeling obesity has just been repackaged "within healthy norms of size fluctuation", when it often really isn't. Factually.
So the only people allowed in advertising should be perfectly fit people?
People within healthy levels of weight yes.
Which means in fact a "fat" person could be in the ad. Just not a morbidly obese one. Or an anorexic one.
Hell, you shouldn't even put Chris Evens in there. Body positivity was meant as a counter to "everyone needs to look like a god". It got highjacked and now we defend obesity with it.
User banned (5 days): Inflammatory comparisons, body shaming.
We banned smoking in ads because it was unhealthy and killing people. Fastfood, soda, and obesity should be the same.
Yeah, cool. Let's ban people from TV, that's a normal and good thing to do.
my point is not that the time to discuss those things is here, in this thread, about this one ad depicting this one woman - the time to discuss the societal change needed to work on obesity as an epidemic is not when a brand dares to remind you that fat people exist. the concern being bandied about here is not genuine (note here: I am not saying you need to go and be a fucking doctor or nutritionist for your concern to actually be genuine, just that this shouldn't be the catalyst for your discussion if you are coming from a real position) and there are some really gross posts that I guess don't break the rules but do belie some real deep-seated ugliness on some folks behalf.
People modeling behavior that leads to an early death? Absolutely. Doubly so if we have institute public healthcare and society is paying for everyone's medical costs.
But would you support and suggest it's a positive move to put someone who is diagnosed as being anorexic in a TV marketing campaign partially advertising the body?
That is simply a thought experiment as to why two fringes of the human condition, at opposite ends, are treated vastly different when it comes to handling them and trying to educate the public neither extreme is somewhere you want to be.
It's funny how that guy was pretending to care about her health while calling her grotesque.
Agreed. It shouldn't really be that delicate of a subject either, it's just common sense obesity is not natural and is unhealthy.
Why? Are people outside of these arbitrary limits not people? Don't they deserve to see themselves in advertising media?
All you people are doing with this nonsense is body shaming. You're not saving anyone from anything.
Slim people aren't shamed in society like obese people are so that comparison isn't really fair.
You ever heard people yell at a girl for being too slim? How many "Slim jokes" do you see in your typical sit-com?
Yeah. Exactly.
*Sigh*.
Morbid Obesity is not something to be celebrated. Neither is anorexia. And no one is saying these aren't people; we're trying to stop the condition of obesity not the people themselves.
Why is only one of these as a public issue defended so steadfastly?
There's a difference between slim and anorexic.
You see, this is where being overweight and being morbidly obese doesn't seem to "matter" anymore. The lines have blurred to suggest everyone overweight is the same as everyone else who is overweight.
Like saying slim or skinny people are the same as anorexic people.
You can be slim/skinny, and possibly in a doctors eyes be a bit underweight, but that is not classified as anorexia.
edit: And yeah, if you're going on the jokes and comments angle, a flat ass or flat chest, which can often come from being slim, is often used against women. Not being an hourglass shape or having some "meat on the bones".
I don't think they would, but I guess it depends how you define "extreme"
The definition for morbid obesity isn't arbitrary, it isnt body shaming, something that unhealthy shouldnt be normalized
Things are doubtlessly going to be caught in the crossfire. That's all the more reason for people to move away from approaching the problem from a critical rather than a supportive perspective. (It would be one thing if it was actually demonstrated to work, versus being psychologically taxing and therefore reinforcing obesity and seemingly making it worse.) That's why it's a larger cultural issue. And that culture leads to backlashes like ones where things get skewed in the wrong direction.
Many people are obviously immune to education, but teaching about the root causes and factors of things like obesity and teaching people the effects of the language they use would do more to solve the issue than the status quo. Compassion doesn't mean "let's leave you to it, then". Actually normalizing obesity is a separate (but related) issue.
Is it being tackled to a proper degree. Not even close. Taking the NHS example, the mental health services are grossly underfunded. A smarter investment upfront could save money down the line where you have to pay with the consequences of long-term obesity, but we seldom see such prophylactic strategies. Food addiction and eating disorders are one thing, but that's discounting the prevalence of convenient, addictive, and unhealthy food. (I'd say both the US and the UK are notorious for this.) Dealing with what's convenient involves dealing with economic factors behind why people buy why they buy, and how things like overworking fits into it.
It's a multifaceted, complex problem. Ultimately, obese people are a symptom of failures in the system that do not want to address these issues. And that's an uncomfortable thing for people to recognize in an age of personal responsibility. Clearly, it seems pretty compelling that using moral-based approaches to obesity did nothing to address the issue at best (to exacerbating the issue at worst). Many people are clearly not genuinely interested in seeing things change, though.
Again, we're not arguing for us to be able to make jokes at fat peoples expense.
We want Gillete to not glorify an unhealthy body. Jesus this isn't hard to understand folks.
Exactly. If your issue is with an ad that encourages people to go out and be active without feeling shame and fear of ridicule, it's extremely telling. Many of the same people would still be complaining if this ad had her on a treadmill dressed like that. What many people are doing in this thread, is not helpful to people's health but really harmful. To physical and mental health both. Many people aren't about encouraging healthy lifestyles, but telling people to stay out of their sights. And not all are doing it intentionally of course, sometimes people do harmful things unknowingly.
A condescending response makes your argument way more valid, well done.
That isn't what Gillette was going for.
They were going for the toxic "body positivity" angle; most likely on purpose to get clicks.