• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
It doesn't leave me with any impression. I'm impressed by a business telling people to behave properly?

I don't see how anyone could be either outraged or bowled over by this advert. It's a shaving company telling men to behave how normal men behave.

Cheers Gillette I feel better now, definately gonna upgrade my 10 year old mach 3.

I don't see the fuss over the advert either way.

Ads leave impressions, this ad left an impression on you, whether that's something you want to take conscious stock of is up to you.

The "fuss" over the advert is two fold:

Decent people applauding the messaging of accountability for men

Awful people getting irrationally upset over the messaging
 

twdnewh

Member
Oct 31, 2018
648
Sydney, Australia
If you can't formulate an argument for what you are trying to say than no, no healthy discussion can be had.
Wont doesnt always mean cant, its difficult to voice any kind of opposing view on the ad when you have people literally saying "if you disagree with this ad in anyway...." followed by a bunch of insults. Anyway, here goes.

I felt their decision to kick off the ad by mentioning topics like the metoo movement and toxic masculinity was a poor choice. Men are obviously the target demographic here, and these 2 topics have been pretty controversial recently and have had a lot of male backlash. By starting your ad like this, you pretty much negated a lot of the positive message the ad is trying to deliver. And that's because people who disagree with any of the above mentioned topics will automatically disregard and view the ad negatively regardless of what the ultimate message is.
 

Doof

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,434
Kentucky
Wont doesnt always mean cant, its difficult to voice any kind of opposing view on the ad when you have people literally saying "if you disagree with this ad in anyway...." followed by a bunch of insults. Anyway, here goes.

I felt their decision to kick off the ad by mentioning topics like the metoo movement and toxic masculinity was a poor choice. Men are obviously the target demographic here, and these 2 topics have been pretty controversial recently and have had a lot of male backlash. By starting your ad like this, you pretty much negated a lot of the positive message the ad is trying to deliver. And that's because people who disagree with any of the above mentioned topics will automatically disregard and view the ad negatively regardless of what the ultimate message is.

the only people who disagree with those things are shitheads tho. no one should care what they think lol

It's not worth stepping on eggshells to avoid offending the ultra-dipshits. They'll take offense to anything short of wimmenfolk being barefoot and pregnant. So fuck 'em.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
It doesn't leave me with any impression. I'm impressed by a business telling people to behave properly?

I don't see how anyone could be either outraged or bowled over by this advert. It's a shaving company telling men to behave how normal men behave.

Cheers Gillette I feel better now, definately gonna upgrade my 10 year old mach 3.

I don't see the fuss over the advert either way.
Sure, you might not be impressed by it. But the ad reached you, Gillette is now being widely discussed between people especially in social media (even by you, who doesn't care). Personally I am impressed that business of all things will take a stance. Especially as this message is considered to be somewhat controversial by some, it's not an ad telling not to kill or something. It's calling out behaviour which is deemed acceptable by many. It's an ad challenging people, that is impressive to me.
 
Last edited:

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,487
The reason I bring that up is because a lot of the negative reaction is due to how Gillette chose to deliver rather than the message itself; whereas the counter argument is exactly what you're saying, which is that the delivery is fine as long as the core message is positive.
Of course there are those who dont agree with the message either; unfortunately anyone who doesn't agree with the way the ad was presented is grouped with those who disagreed with the core message.

Just like, say what is on your mind.

This stuff is so annoying. You aren't a victim of being a "moderate" or whatever. Just say your opinion on the ad.
 

Ms.Galaxy

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,653
I just saw the whole thing and I'm just... really?! That's what got some people in a tizzy? The entire thing is just encouraging men to be better, that there are facets of masculinity that are positive, that we should promote and bring forward these facets while turning down the negative ones. It's a great message, a positive one. Seeing men throwing a tantrum over this just tells me we seriously do have a toxic masculinity issue.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
Wont doesnt always mean cant, its difficult to voice any kind of opposing view on the ad when you have people literally saying "if you disagree with this ad in anyway...." followed by a bunch of insults. Anyway, here goes.

I felt their decision to kick off the ad by mentioning topics like the metoo movement and toxic masculinity was a poor choice. Men are obviously the target demographic here, and these 2 topics have been pretty controversial recently and have had a lot of male backlash. By starting your ad like this, you pretty much negated a lot of the positive message the ad is trying to deliver. And that's because people who disagree with any of the above mentioned topics will automatically disregard and view the ad negatively regardless of what the ultimate message is.
In.. what way is mentioning #MeToo negating a positive message? And how exactly do you view the movement as controversial?

If you think of MeToo and the first thing that pops into your head is negativity, you have a lot of self-reflection to do.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
I just saw the whole thing and I'm just... really?! That's what got some people in a tizzy? The entire thing is just encouraging men to be better, that there are facets of masculinity that are positive, that we should promote and bring forward these facets while turning down the negative ones. It's a great message, a positive one. Seeing men throwing a tantrum over this just tells me we seriously do have a toxic masculinity issue.
While I don't think that having courage to intervene should be considered just a masculine trait, I would think courageous is something that many men would want to be. And many men stay silent in different situations, because of fear. And I don't even mean fear of physical harm. They fear how others perceive them, what do their friends think if they call out inapproriate behaviour towards women in example. Will they start mocking them? Will they lose a friend over it etc.
 
Last edited:

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
Wont doesnt always mean cant, its difficult to voice any kind of opposing view on the ad when you have people literally saying "if you disagree with this ad in anyway...." followed by a bunch of insults. Anyway, here goes.

I felt their decision to kick off the ad by mentioning topics like the metoo movement and toxic masculinity was a poor choice. Men are obviously the target demographic here, and these 2 topics have been pretty controversial recently and have had a lot of male backlash. By starting your ad like this, you pretty much negated a lot of the positive message the ad is trying to deliver. And that's because people who disagree with any of the above mentioned topics will automatically disregard and view the ad negatively regardless of what the ultimate message is.

Hmm...

You can't really "disagree" with the MeToo movement as a man. It's a mostly women driven movement to openly discuss real issues of sexual harassment. You can be against the effects of this increasingly open discussion but there's nothing really to "disagree" with.

The idea of toxic masculinity is unknown to the vast majority of men. Introducing it this way is actually pretty tame, as it ties anti-toxicity to simple accountability and doesn't bring in a lot of the more challenging ideas involved.

Also, the social politics of the MeToo movement and this increased awareness of toxic masculinity are necessary to the message.
 

Reeks

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,326
on issues like this, one side is saying "the traditional definitions of masculinity often encourage guys to treat others badly in a systemic nationwide way" and the other is saying "i do not want to believe this problem exists and feel personally insulted by attempts to have a conversation about it." there's only so much balance that can occur in a conversation like that.

how could one engage constructively with a train of thought that goes,

"the human suffering that you want to discuss didn't happen,
and if it did happen, it was an accident,
and if it wasn't an accident it was a fluke perpetrated by a few bad actors because systemic social issues are fundamentally impossible,
and if it wasn't a fluke then it must've been for the best."
?
it's like an ideological version of the Narcissist's Prayer. the core goal of the argument there is to destroy a challenge to the status quo, not to discuss how something is hurting people.

Thank you for this. People who are outraged are having a different conversation than what this ad is even about. To acknowledge the problem means one is and or has been complacent. They refuse to have that look in the mirror and crumble at the thought of it... deny deny deny. To be this weak is truly a luxury.


Edit: Real men have the strength to grow and hold others accountable, Piers. With this in mind, yes, let men be damn men.
 

modoversus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,674
México
Wont doesnt always mean cant, its difficult to voice any kind of opposing view on the ad when you have people literally saying "if you disagree with this ad in anyway...." followed by a bunch of insults. Anyway, here goes.

I felt their decision to kick off the ad by mentioning topics like the metoo movement and toxic masculinity was a poor choice. Men are obviously the target demographic here, and these 2 topics have been pretty controversial recently and have had a lot of male backlash. By starting your ad like this, you pretty much negated a lot of the positive message the ad is trying to deliver. And that's because people who disagree with any of the above mentioned topics will automatically disregard and view the ad negatively regardless of what the ultimate message is.

It is not a poor choice: it's the literal reason why the ad exists. It's a bit like saying that mentioning racism is bad in an ad about fighitng racism. Saying "Just be good" is negating the real issues and we need to be specific of the problem to offer specific solutions.

The mention of both is the reason why the message becomes brave: it says things by their name, and offers that the solution is in ourselves trough empathy and taking action on our daily lives.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,018
I felt their decision to kick off the ad by mentioning topics like the metoo movement and toxic masculinity was a poor choice. Men are obviously the target demographic here, and these 2 topics have been pretty controversial recently and have had a lot of male backlash. By starting your ad like this, you pretty much negated a lot of the positive message the ad is trying to deliver. And that's because people who disagree with any of the above mentioned topics will automatically disregard and view the ad negatively regardless of what the ultimate message is.

So, the ad doesn't work for you because sexist men will disagree with it.

Why are we supposed to give a shit that sexist men don't want to be held accountable for being sexist?
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,547
Wont doesnt always mean cant, its difficult to voice any kind of opposing view on the ad when you have people literally saying "if you disagree with this ad in anyway...." followed by a bunch of insults. Anyway, here goes.

I felt their decision to kick off the ad by mentioning topics like the metoo movement and toxic masculinity was a poor choice. Men are obviously the target demographic here, and these 2 topics have been pretty controversial recently and have had a lot of male backlash. By starting your ad like this, you pretty much negated a lot of the positive message the ad is trying to deliver. And that's because people who disagree with any of the above mentioned topics will automatically disregard and view the ad negatively regardless of what the ultimate message is.

The message of the ad is that in the face of things LIKE MeToo and the constant onslaught of toxic masculinity, it's up to us to hold each other accountable. The mentioning of the negative things provides context that the second half of the ad then pays off by showing men doing good things. You can't express that point WITHOUT showing the problems the ad is asking us to help solve.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,487
Wont doesnt always mean cant, its difficult to voice any kind of opposing view on the ad when you have people literally saying "if you disagree with this ad in anyway...." followed by a bunch of insults. Anyway, here goes.

I felt their decision to kick off the ad by mentioning topics like the metoo movement and toxic masculinity was a poor choice. Men are obviously the target demographic here, and these 2 topics have been pretty controversial recently and have had a lot of male backlash. By starting your ad like this, you pretty much negated a lot of the positive message the ad is trying to deliver. And that's because people who disagree with any of the above mentioned topics will automatically disregard and view the ad negatively regardless of what the ultimate message is.

Okay so I will give you a real answer here. Is it bad that a video confronts a topic with lots of backlash head on? Can you genuinely make a point about men treating each other and women better without addressing major topics in society that fall into those categories?

By referencing real movements and societal issues, the ad moves from "here is a happy go lucky ideal of be great" into a challenge about why we need to be better and the results of that failure. There is always going to be a portion of the population that hear a word or a phrase and disregard the message. Hell, I do it depending om the topic. But to make a real point how do you avoid the elephant in the room? Is that effective at making a true point opposed to making warm and fuzzies for the group that needs to feel more for the ad to have impact?
 

twdnewh

Member
Oct 31, 2018
648
Sydney, Australia
the only people who disagree with those things are shitheads tho. no one should care what they think lol

It's not worth stepping on eggshells to avoid offending the ultra-dipshits. They'll take offense to anything short of wimmenfolk being barefoot and pregnant. So fuck 'em.
While you are right in a lot of cases, that's not always entirely true. Not everyone who disagrees with or doesn't entirely support metoo or toxic masculinity or both necessarily is ok with bullying or even with sexual harassment. And if that were the case, what purpose does the messge in the ad serve then?
 

jayu26

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,587
Gilette: Hey guys, let's be better than we have been.

Conservative fuck nuts: No.

I have given up on reaching them. Life is to short for their collective backwards asses.
 

kazinova

Member
Oct 27, 2017
935
The delicate conservatives I work with are in a lather over this ad. It's pathetic. You don't get to be a fan of "old-school" manliness and not just toughen up when you get someone challenging you. Be better or shut up. I learned about not bullying or fighting in Boy Scouts back in the nineties. The same men that taught me that are crying about this ad and it's deeply saddening.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
The message of the ad is that in the face of things LIKE MeToo and the constant onslaught of toxic masculinity, it's up to us to hold each other accountable. The mentioning of the negative things provides context that the second half of the ad then pays off by showing men doing good things. You can't express that point WITHOUT showing the problems the ad is asking us to help solve.
#MeToo is a positive thing, not a negative thing. It's a movement that is raising awareness and making ads like this possible in the first place. Obviously it comes from dark experiences but it's empowerment.
 

twdnewh

Member
Oct 31, 2018
648
Sydney, Australia
Okay so I will give you a real answer here. Is it bad that a video confronts a topic with lots of backlash head on? Can you genuinely make a point about men treating each other and women better without addressing major topics in society that fall into those categories?

By referencing real movements and societal issues, the ad moves from "here is a happy go lucky ideal of be great" into a challenge about why we need to be better and the results of that failure. There is always going to be a portion of the population that hear a word or a phrase and disregard the message. Hell, I do it depending om the topic. But to make a real point how do you avoid the elephant in the room? Is that effective at making a true point opposed to making warm and fuzzies for the group that needs to feel more for the ad to have impact?
I see your point, I just feel like the ad would have had more positive impact and much less backlash had it not mentioned those 2 topics.
 

LookAtMeGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,136
a parallel universe
Wont doesnt always mean cant, its difficult to voice any kind of opposing view on the ad when you have people literally saying "if you disagree with this ad in anyway...." followed by a bunch of insults. Anyway, here goes.

I felt their decision to kick off the ad by mentioning topics like the metoo movement and toxic masculinity was a poor choice. Men are obviously the target demographic here, and these 2 topics have been pretty controversial recently and have had a lot of male backlash. By starting your ad like this, you pretty much negated a lot of the positive message the ad is trying to deliver. And that's because people who disagree with any of the above mentioned topics will automatically disregard and view the ad negatively regardless of what the ultimate message is.
The whole point of the ad was to address toxic masculinity which is the cause of things like the #metoo thing so it doesnt really make sense to then say that you agree with the core message of the commercial but that you think it was a bad idea to mention those 2 things. If its because mentioning those 2 things is going to trigger a certain demographic of men then the commercial did exactly what it was set out to do. The only people who will disregard the commercial because of those things mentioned are the same exact people the commercial is asking us to be better than.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,547
#MeToo is a positive thing, not a negative thing. It's a movement that is raising awareness and making ads like this possible in the first place. Obviously it comes from dark experiences but it's empowerment.

Of course it is. But you can't have #MeToo without the men committing the offenses in the first place, and the actions of those men (and of the men who have yet to commit those offenses but will in the future) are what we need to hold each other accountable for.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
I see your point, I just feel like the ad would have had more positive impact and much less backlash had it not mentioned those 2 topics.
They are the entire point of the ad.
Of course it is. But you can't have #MeToo without the men committing the offenses in the first place, and the actions of those men (and of the men who have yet to commit those offenses but will in the future) are what we need to hold each other accountable for.
Right.. and that is a positive thing.
 

sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
I see your point, I just feel like the ad would have had more positive impact and much less backlash had it not mentioned those 2 topics.
The ad already sacrifices a ton in its attempt to coddle men. If it had not mentioned those two topics then it would have been left almost entirely toothless.

If men are so tough and brave and strong then they should be able to take a little criticism.
 

Deleted member 3897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,638
Like my boy Cap once wrote in a Tweet, any man quantifying another man's masculinity is secretly afraid on the inside.
 

Ponn

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,171
While you are right in a lot of cases, that's not always entirely true. Not everyone who disagrees with or doesn't entirely support metoo or toxic masculinity or both necessarily is ok with bullying or even with sexual harassment. And if that were the case, what purpose does the messge in the ad serve then?

I feel it's more important to address REAL issues involving REAL harassment and shining a light on it rather than worrying what hypothetical people who disagree with an anti-harassment movement yet sit back and do nothing think about an ad. And if those same hypothetical people are actually offended and dislike this ad then I fail to see the difference between them and the rest of the toxic red pill/incel/altright trash out there throwing a tantrum over this. At best, they are helping to enable them and let them continue with the status quo while sitting on their asses. At least this is sending a positive message to young, impressionable men on what they should strive to be.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,487
I see your point, I just feel like the ad would have had more positive impact and much less backlash had it not mentioned those 2 topics.

I can understand the desire to have a positive message be frictionless to an extent. When you have a good thing, you want dudes to see the good and not toss it all away based on some insecurity or whatever. I get that.

That said, is there really much of an underlying point if you don't address the root cause? I think the flaw in your process is that you think that in order to have the intended effect the ad needs to be received by feelings of welcome and be embraced. But if that were the case, would we really need a video in the first place? I don't think the world is without lots of positive reinforcement videos. That isn't what this is. This is about how normalizing poor behaviour among men and boys has lead to social strife in other parts of society.

#MeToo is a direct result of men not challenging ourselves to be better on this issue. It isnt just saying be a better person. It is saying discard these outdated views because the consequences are devasting.

That is a message that inherently can't be presented without pushback. Its not suppose to be easy to swallow.

And my own personal opinion is that you really can't begin to be better until you are willing to see these concepts and engage with them honestly. #MeToo scares a lot of dudes. It makes them uncomfortable. And it should. Victims of MeToo are uncomfortable. They are scared. But they have decided that not talking about it leave power in the wrong hands. Not talking about MeToo to other dudes is giving it power because it benefits men for it to be on the low.
 

Link

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,623
I guess it should come as no surprise that the not-at-all snowflakes over at GAF are all up in arms over this ad.
 

DerpHause

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,379
Wont doesnt always mean cant, its difficult to voice any kind of opposing view on the ad when you have people literally saying "if you disagree with this ad in anyway...." followed by a bunch of insults. Anyway, here goes.

I felt their decision to kick off the ad by mentioning topics like the metoo movement and toxic masculinity was a poor choice. Men are obviously the target demographic here, and these 2 topics have been pretty controversial recently and have had a lot of male backlash. By starting your ad like this, you pretty much negated a lot of the positive message the ad is trying to deliver. And that's because people who disagree with any of the above mentioned topics will automatically disregard and view the ad negatively regardless of what the ultimate message is.

I'm not sure I understand this, the point of the add is addressing toxic masculinity but they can't mention the issues created by it? And they can't specifically address that because the truth of the issue will create backlash?

In response I'd ask: What specific claim to legitimacy does toxic masculinity have that should be catered to while acknowledging that same toxic masculinity is the problem that needs eliminated?


I see your point, I just feel like the ad would have had more positive impact and much less backlash had it not mentioned those 2 topics.

No, neutering the message would not have had a more positive impact, it would have removed the positive impact for the sake of apeasing those who needed it most.
 

cbrotherson

Freelance Games & Comic Book Writer
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
490
Birmingham
Gillette just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about male culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like being a SJW soy boy where you can become successful by being all nice. If you don't screw someone over as a man, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is punching someone in the nuts. Hard.

What this means is the male public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase Gillette razors, nor will they purchase any of Gillette's products. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Gillette has alienated an entire market with this move.

Gillette, publicly apologize and cancel this campaign, or you can kiss your business goodbye.




...🤓

(The ad is incredible. Watching the irony of #notallmen come out in force has all but reinforced its point, even though it uses both text and subtext to state it's far from attacking men. Proves that some people you'll never be able to reach, but if others are talking about it, then it's a win.)
 

Misterman

Member
Jun 10, 2018
212
Wont doesnt always mean cant, its difficult to voice any kind of opposing view on the ad when you have people literally saying "if you disagree with this ad in anyway...." followed by a bunch of insults. Anyway, here goes.

I felt their decision to kick off the ad by mentioning topics like the metoo movement and toxic masculinity was a poor choice. Men are obviously the target demographic here, and these 2 topics have been pretty controversial recently and have had a lot of male backlash. By starting your ad like this, you pretty much negated a lot of the positive message the ad is trying to deliver. And that's because people who disagree with any of the above mentioned topics will automatically disregard and view the ad negatively regardless of what the ultimate message is.
I get what you're trying to say. These kind of ads are supposedly addressing those who have problems with phrases like toxic masculinity but does anyone think this will change someone's mind?

I still obviously agree with its message, but it's obvious it wasn't so effective on that crowd judging by the stupid amounts of backlash. Maybe the goal is to normalize these ideas so people start to see them more often and then maybe they'll see the light. I mean at least they don't seem to be pandering to their base so I don't really see it as a cash grab. Usually I don't support activist type of ads for that reason.
 

Bramblebutt

Banned
Jan 11, 2018
1,858
Wont doesnt always mean cant, its difficult to voice any kind of opposing view on the ad when you have people literally saying "if you disagree with this ad in anyway...." followed by a bunch of insults. Anyway, here goes.

I felt their decision to kick off the ad by mentioning topics like the metoo movement and toxic masculinity was a poor choice. Men are obviously the target demographic here, and these 2 topics have been pretty controversial recently and have had a lot of male backlash. By starting your ad like this, you pretty much negated a lot of the positive message the ad is trying to deliver. And that's because people who disagree with any of the above mentioned topics will automatically disregard and view the ad negatively regardless of what the ultimate message is.

The entire point of the ad to criticize the toxic masculine culture that made movements like #MeToo necessary to hold men accountable for sexual assault and harassment.

You can't just have the ad telling men to be better about these things without identifying a context and cause. If anything, that would make the snowflakes even more mad, because they would be enabled to further suppose that the ad is attacking men with arbitrary misandry instead of criticizing learned, reversible behaviors with clear consequences.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,547
I've never understood why people have such a problem with the CONCEPT of toxic masculinity. It's very real.

For context: I was sexually assaulted in high school. Twice. Both times by women. The one person I tried to tell about it responded by going "why would you have a problem with that, she's hot". Because I was an impressionable teenager who already had lots of people call him "gay" (and worse) for not being particularly athletic or tough, I then proceeded to bottle that shit up for literally half my life and buried it so deeply it became part of my subconscious until #MeToo happened and I had a trauma nightmare that made everything come blasting back through my head like a tornado.

If toxic masculinity wasn't a thing - if I wasn't so afraid of being labeled as "less of a man" for talking about my experiences, I would've been able to deal with my trauma when it happened instead of needing 15 years of steeling myself to be able to process it without shattering like glass.
 

Misterman

Member
Jun 10, 2018
212
Gillette just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about male culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like being a SJW soy boy where you can become successful by being all nice. If you don't screw someone over as a man, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is punching someone in the nuts. Hard.

What this means is the male public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase Gillette razors, nor will they purchase any of Gillette's products. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Gillette has alienated an entire market with this move.

Gillette, publicly apologize and cancel this campaign, or you can kiss your business goodbye.



...🤓

(The ad is incredible. Watching the irony of #notallmen come out in force has all but reinforced its point, even though it uses both text and subtext to state it's far from attacking men. Proves that some people you'll never be able to reach, but if others are talking about it, then it's a win.)
That's satire... right? Damn that's a real problem when I can see someone legitimately meaning that.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,487
I get what you're trying to say. These kind of ads are supposedly addressing those who have problems with phrases like toxic masculinity but does anyone think this will change someone's mind?

For firmly rooted adults maybe not. But there are lots of people out there on the edge of flipping from for to against that will see these kind of ads and seek opinions and knowledge. Those are worth reaching out to. Also, this is thebtype of stuff that will be discussed amoung social circles or in class rooms that will help share other perspectives. It starts a dialog. You can talk about this now because you have somthing tangible to discuss instead of just bringing it up for no reason.

I still obviously agree with its message, but it's obvious it wasn't so effective on that crowd judging by the stupid amounts of backlash. Maybe the goal is to normalize these ideas so people start to see them more often and then maybe they'll see the light. I mean at least they don't seem to be pandering to their base so I don't really see it as a cash grab. Usually I don't support activist type of ads for that reason.

I think part of it is the normalization of these ideas. Corporations dont do shit like this unless they think its safe.
 

Big Dirty

Member
Nov 11, 2018
248
Well, time to buy more Gillette products.

I imagine Gillette aren't going to lose any sales from this. The types of guys saying "I'll never buy from you again" probably can't even grow facial hair. Maybe a little pathetic bumfluff moustache and neckbeard though?
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
I've never understood why people have such a problem with the CONCEPT of toxic masculinity. It's very real.

For context: I was sexually assaulted in high school. Twice. Both times by women. The one person I tried to tell about it responded by going "why would you have a problem with that, she's hot". Because I was an impressionable teenager who already had lots of people call him "gay" (and worse) for not being particularly athletic or tough, I then proceeded to bottle that shit up for literally half my life and buried it so deeply it became part of my subconscious until #MeToo happened and I had a trauma nightmare that made everything come blasting back through my head like a tornado.

If toxic masculinity wasn't a thing - if I wasn't so afraid of being labeled as "less of a man" for talking about my experiences, I would've been able to deal with my trauma when it happened instead of needing 15 years of steeling myself to be able to process it without shattering like glass.
Yeah many also fail to realize that what is described as toxic masculinity also harms men. Just like sexism does.
 

LookAtMeGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,136
a parallel universe
It starts a dialog. You can talk about this now because you have somthing tangible to discuss instead of just bringing it up for no reason.

This is 100% true. Toxic masculinity is a subject that hasn't once come up at my work (which is dealing with foul mouthed truck drivers all day) and just today this commercial came up in 3 separate conversations. Admittedly twice brought up by me, but to my surprise, every one of them was on the same page that it was a great commercial and it hit them in the feels and was a good positive message. Not sure if it changed any of their minds but its definitely got people talking.