GIBiz: Returnal, Skyward Sword, Ratchet & Clank and the value of video games

[Phendrift]

The last full priced Ratchet game launched in 2009. There have been at least three budget-priced games in the series since then. Seems like an expectation has been set for some that R&C is a budget franchise now, whether fairly or not.

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Yeah exactly, which seems to be the point of the article. For what's happening to ratchet, Look at Crash 4, sold for $60 and it flopped partially because people said it was too expensive due to the standard that N. sane trilogy.

Mario Odyssey, another game of the same genre launching for $60, lights the charts on fire and no one questions the price.

People wonder here on era why Nintendo doesnt price their ports differently - there's your reason. Activision devalued the Crash brand right there lol.

 

[Luckett_X]

Did a real life spit-take on Miitopia's full retail pricing.

 

[SNRUB]

I'm a huge fan of R&C but the price of the new game scared me off from purchasing it anytime soon.

But it's also fucking whack charging full price for a remaster of Zelda too. Stay winning Nintendo /s

 

[Deleted member 79517]

Pricing is subjective. If you think it isn't worth it, don't buy it. If you think it's worth it, buy it! You aren't entitled to be able to afford every game that comes out, so just pay for the ones that are worthwhile to you at their price point and move on with your life.

 

[Ctrl Alt Del]

I like Housemarque and I'm interested in Returnal, but I'm not getting it until it's 50% off or less. The $70 price tag doesn't get any goodwill from me.

 

[Mr_F_Snowman]

Didn't the pound take a massive dive?

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No don't think so. Since the Brexit deal was agreed the pound has increased a lot against the euro / dollar

 

[Ridley327]

Yeah exactly, which seems to be the point of the article. For what's happening to ratchet, Look at Crash 4, sold for $60 and it flopped partially because people said it was too expensive due to the standard that N. sane trilogy.

Mario Odyssey, another game of the same genre launching for $60, lights the charts on fire and no one questions the price.

People wonder here on era why Nintendo doesnt price their ports differently - there's your reason. Activision devalued the Crash brand right there lol.

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It generates goodwill with gamers, I guess, to have flexible pricing on stuff that isn't perceived to be AAA, but that's very much a double-edged sword when you get to situations like this and wonder why folks didn't go for it this time around. It's not hard to see how that under-valuing winds up with these consequences, which is something that has been discussed in the recent Japan Studio threads as to whether or not it's a good thing to put all their chips on Astro Bot breaking out when, up until now, it's been a freebie with hardware.

 

[Deleted member 32005]

Returnal and Ratchet are getting premium pricing because they are the only next gen games out there, and PS5 owners are thirsty for games.

Skyward Sword is different. But I don't really care, they're only porting games that people want, generally. It would be different if it was full priced ports of like, Excite Truck and Mario Strikers, or whatever (Though I would prefer Excite Truck over Skyward Sword lol).

 

[Addleburg]

They can charge whatever they want - I'm still not buying it til a deep sale. The most I've spent on Series X games so far is $30, and I even regret one of those purchases at that price (Watchdogs Legion).

I half thought about buying 3D All-Stars, but that price tag really is some bullshit, and I don't want to be a part of that.

 

[Kupo Kupopo]

I have spent more than £70 on video games before, but I've not spent anywhere near that for a Ratchet & Clank title. In fact, the last game on PS4, the remake of the original, cost me £30 brand new. I do expect to pay more for an all-new PS5 title, but double the price? The benefit/cost equation isn't working so well in this case.

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so dumb. he's knowingly comparing the price of a deliberately-discounted remake with the price of a new, original game just in order to make his 'point'...

 

[fanboy]

10€ more and people are going crazy when that price increase probably should come sooner due to production of games ballooning like crazy. SMH. Everyfucking body raises their price. just look at the fucking movie tickest or streaming platforms. God forbid if games do that.

 

[Yoshimitsu126]

$70 isnt too much of a problem if Sony games get discounted later like usual. Hopefully it just remains as early adopter tax.

 

[Bundy]

10€ more and people are going crazy when that price increase probably should come sooner due to production of games ballooning like crazy. SMH. Everyfucking body raises their price. just look at the fucking movie tickest or streaming platforms. God forbid if games do that.

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Games are selling more than ever. And we're still talking about 80€ here. Not a 10€ cinema ticket or a 30€ Blu-Ray movie/disc. It's 80€. 70€ was already expensive as hell.

 

[MoogleMaestro]

Skyward Sword being a "ripoff" at 60 dollars is a very interesting phenomenon. I didn't see people making these types of complaints with software like Pikmin 3, Mario Kart 8 or even Splatoon 2, which were mostly switch ports of WII U titles sold at full price. In other words, this is really just the first time the greater audience may have been asked to buy a game that they already own at the same market value.

 

[Ridley327]

so dumb. he's knowingly comparing the price of a deliberately-discounted remake with the price of a new, original game just in order to make his 'point'...

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But why was it "deliberately" discounted in the first place if Sony has no issues charging full price for remakes? That's the core of the issue there, and the answer isn't a particularly pleasant one: Sony was not valuing the IP the same as others at the time. It remains to be seen if that still holds true when Rift Apart launches, which I personally think will do quite well myself, but if it does underperform, then the reason why was laid out years in advance.

 

[ClickyCal']

Skyward Sword being a "ripoff" at 60 dollars is a very interesting phenomenon. I didn't see people making these types of complaints with software like Pikmin 3, Mario Kart 8 or even Splatoon 2, which were mostly switch ports of WII U titles sold at full price. In other words, this is really just the first time the greater audience may have been asked to buy a game that they already own at the same market value.

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A lot of people have had similar complaints about a lot of switch games, lol.

 

[Chief Malik]

I used to care but since I'm primarily PC, it no longer matters
There are too many games available to play for cheaper if not out right free.

 

[Pheonix]

If Nintendo can charge $60 for a remaster? Not even remake...a remaster. Then fuck that, any and everyone else can charge whatever they want to charge for an original IP.

That aside, my stance on this stuff hasn't changed. Don't buy anything until its at a price you are comfortable with. The sooner gamers realize that the only voice we really have is that of our wallets? The better it would be for everyone.

 

[Sagroth]

Ratchet & Clank is my favorite series of all time, so I'm willing to swallow the price tag this time around. Definitely not getting Returnal for $70, or Skyward Sword for $60 though.

 

[SuperFakerBros]

Serious question. Not trying to be a jerk but how is it that Nintendo can charge $60 for a HD remaster and never really drop the prices of their games and people are more upset about $70 prices tags for actual new games?

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How are people not upset over that? I see about equal outrage for both

 

[Derachi]

Did a real life spit-take on Miitopia's full retail pricing.

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It's not full price tho lmao

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I don't see $60 for Skyward Sword HD as a rip off. I just don't buy remasters for full price. If that will be the forever price of the game I would just not play it. There are 1000s of games in the market. I don't think pricing of new releases being high or not dropping is an issue. Lots of high value games exist out there for cheap.

I don't see why Returnal cant be $70. It will drop in price eventually. If you want to be a day one gamer it costs more. Always has. Obviously I would want to pay less but I dont think the market is going to shun $70 games. The general market doesn't consume games like Era does.

 

[AwakenedCloud]

I think the premature evaluation of Returnal seems weird. Do we know enough about the game to say that it's not worth being a full proved title? I can see the argument that it won't do well due to genre or name at that price, but is there something lesser about it on a gameplay or production end that's making people say that it shouldn't be full priced?

I also don't get this premise of Ratchet and Clank suddenly becoming a "lesser" franchise. That series, aside from the PS4 Remake (which was a GREAT value) has always been a full priced title. All of the main titles have been high quality games whose accolades rival other Sony first party projects. And nothing they've shown of this Rift Apart shows that any of that has changed.

 

[GattsuSama]

I am getting Returnal day one for any reasonable price, that includes $60-70, since I am pumped for it. Unless some reviews come out that it sucks I know I won't regret it. I will probably get about 6-10 more game in 2021 in the same way without any ounce of regret including Skyward Sword HD.

I think it all boils down to what you want out of it and how good the game is to you. I just got 130hrs from Valhalla at full price and loved it. That's about .50 cents an hour for that. I've bought games that I have spent a lot less time for the same amount and enjoyed a lot more, as well as game I've enjoyed less.

$60-70 is not that big of a price for something you want and if you really do not want it you can wait for a refund.

You can also buy at full price, beat it and resell it to someone for like 80%+ returns.

I think a lot of the discussion about the value of video games ignores that these items retain their value in the short term, at lest long enough to get a decent return. Even if say games get up to $100, you can easily buy it, play it, beat it and sell it forward and get most of the money back. If you really loved the game then you will have the chance top get it at a deep discount down the road or you can wait in the first place. You also have refund options that can be used if you really do not like the game enough to warrant the purchase.

 

[KORNdog]

There's definitely a sense of "i'll wait a while until prices drop", especially for the Nintendo remasters...and they all do eventually, albeit slowly. That limited release mario 3D all stars launched at £50 and I've seen it as low as £35.

But I never saw ratchet as one that made me pause for it's price. It's a full fledged entry with probably double digit hours of gameplay. It's not a short form entry or a shorter remaster like the last few games. So I see the value in it the same way I see the value in a £50 mario odyssey.

The game that DOES make me pause is returnal. I know it's become a bit of a dead horse to beat. But it's bound to hurt the games chances of success. I can't imagine the pre order numbers are high. And the reason that game stands out for its price above any other right now is the fact developer is unproven in that genre and the fact there has never been a rogue-like that has costs anywhere near as much as that.

There seems to be a universal acceptance that something relying on repetition and that is procedurally generated isn't worth as much as something that has had a humans touch at every facet of its design...maybe that isn't fair for games like Hades or risk of rain 2. But there's no way I would have accepted £70 for those games either.

 

[Stall_19]

I am much more interested in Returnal so I'm definitely getting that at full price. Ratchet & Clank does absolutely nothing for me so that's a $20 or less title for me.

 

[ClickyCal']

I think the premature evaluation of Returnal seems weird. Do we know enough about the game to say that it's not worth being a full proved title? I can see the argument that it won't do well due to genre or name at that price, but is there something lesser about it on a gameplay or production end that's making people say that it shouldn't be full priced?

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Basically "it's rogue like, so it shouldn't be full priced". What if this is the game to bring rogue likes to the mainstream though and to AAA games?

 

[fiendcode]

How are people not upset over that? I see about equal outrage for both

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On Era, I see a lot more outrage over Nintendo's $60 remaster (Skyward Sword) than Sony's $70 remake (Demon's Souls). Hell, there was more price rage over Nintendo's actual $60 remake (Link's Awakening) too. Or their $60 collection (3D All-Stars).

Anyone implying Nintendo gets a free pass or less heat on pricing is divorced from reality, it's a constant issue on Era.

 

[SuperFakerBros]

Skyward Sword being a "ripoff" at 60 dollars is a very interesting phenomenon. I didn't see people making these types of complaints with software like Pikmin 3, Mario Kart 8 or even Splatoon 2, which were mostly switch ports of WII U titles sold at full price. In other words, this is really just the first time the greater audience may have been asked to buy a game that they already own at the same market value.

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Splatoon 2 is a brand new game so I'm not sure what your point is there unless you're seriously trying to say it's an enhanced port. Never mind that people DID make that complaint with ports like Pikmin 3 or Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze. It's just more egregious with The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword because it's a much older game from two generations ago. Had its visuals been more reworked, it'd have been seen more favorably

 

[shaneo632]

£70 is a joke. I just use Boomerang to rent games these days. So much cheaper when I take a "one and done" approach to basically any game that isn't multiplayer.

 

[SuperFakerBros]

On Era, I see a lot more outrage over Nintendo's $60 remaster (Skyward Sword) than Sony's $70 remake (Demon's Souls). Hell, there was more price rage over Nintendo's actual $60 remake (Link's Awakening) too. Or their $60 collection (3D All-Stars).

Anyone implying Nintendo gets a free pass or less heat on pricing is divorced from reality, it's a constant issue on Era.

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It's just console warring, really, and not even subtle either. Quite a few folk are showing their asses on here

 

[Kupo Kupopo]

But why was it "deliberately" discounted in the first place if Sony has no issues charging full price for remakes? That's the core of the issue there, and the answer isn't a particularly pleasant one: Sony was not valuing the IP the same as others at the time. It remains to be seen if that still holds true when Rift Apart launches, which I personally think will do quite well myself, but if it does underperform, then the reason why was laid out years in advance.

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you're seriously attempting to compare the r&c remake to stuff like shadow of the colossus & demon's souls? c'mon, now...

sony's purchase of insomniac would seem to clearly demonstrate to me beyond question that they genuinely do value r&c...

 

[HotHamBoy]

Returnal is DOA

 

[Ridley327]

you're seriously attempting to compare the r&c remake to stuff like shadow of the colossus & demon's souls? c'mon, now...

sony's purchase of insomniac would seem to clearly demonstrate to me beyond question that they genuinely do value r&c...

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Why wouldn't you? It's about as big as your average R&C title and it has some of the best visuals on the PS4. And hell, bringing up the SotC remake isn't great since that, too, was sold at $40!

 

[ClickyCal']

On Era, I see a lot more outrage over Nintendo's $60 remaster (Skyward Sword) than Sony's $70 remake (Demon's Souls). Hell, there was more price rage over Nintendo's actual $60 remake (Link's Awakening) too. Or their $60 collection (3D All-Stars).

Anyone implying Nintendo gets a free pass or less heat on pricing is divorced from reality, it's a constant issue on Era.

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On Era, but not so much in the mainstream.

 

[Unaha-Closp]

I've been priced out of buying new games this Gen. So any new game that comes out - I have to wait until it goes on sale. This is okay - I am not entitled. I could afford the PS5 but not the software Day One. I knew this when I bought the PS5. I bought the Disc One for this reason. Or more accurately I can afford some of the new games if I think they are worth it or I can test my resolve and wait for a sale. I am turning 45 tomorrow - my desire to play games is waining so I think I'll manage. Be real hard when the new Naughty Dog game is coming out but that is years and years and years away so maybe my spending for games will increase but probably not. Anyway, I want Returnal and Ratchet and Clank - but not day one at 70 Great Scottish Pounds I don't. Again I knew this was happening. I was pissed about it, I am still pissed, as I remember when they were 40. New GTA - 40. New MGS - 40. Then they went to 50. New GTA - 50. New MGS - 50. Now it's New GTA - 70. Too much of a bump for me.

 

[ghostcrew]

Basically "it's rogue like, so it shouldn't be full priced". What if this is the game to bring rogue likes to the mainstream though and to AAA games?

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I actually think it's this plus knowing Housemarque's catalogue of smaller games. It's not like the devs are known for creating big AAA games. A genre that is typically the land of £10-20 games plus a developer who has traditionally made games like Alienation, Resogun and Nex Machina (so generally about $15 games) combined to make some pause I think.

 

[Renna Hazel]

I guess I'm part of the 'problem'. I'm in the camp that doesn't consider 60 dollars to be very much for a good video game. Compared to almost everything else I do for fun, games are very cheap for the amount of entertainment you get from them. I have no issue paying 60 for Nintendo games. I'll be getting Ratchet day 1 and if Sony can sell me on Returnal, I'll get that at 70 dollars. In Nintendo's case I guess I'm less concerned about how much it cost them to make and more concerned about whether or not it's worth the price to me personally. The Mario ports in HD and having them portable are more than worth 20 each for me.

In instances where I don't feel the price is justified, like Skyward Sword HD, it's more because I don't like the game rather than the fact that it's a Wii game. If they removed all the motion BS and told Fi to stop interrupting me, I'd buy the game at 60.

 

[xtib81]

80€ is a crazy price I'm only willing to pay for games like TLou2 or rdr2. I'll wait for a Price drop for the others. And I'm back to selling my games too.

 

[SuperFakerBros]

On Era, but not so much in the mainstream.

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The mainstream won't care about $70 for more than a little while either before they get used to it and go along with it like they did with paying for online

With regards to $70 games, I don't see it as too much of an issue as I'll just end up waiting for price drops and can just go through my backlog or cheap quality indie games in the mean time. Even Returnal will probably do alright once it gets price drops unless it ends up getting rave reviews

 

[Ovvv]

The issue people have with Returnal's pricing in particular legitimately makes no sense. Acting as if it's "not worth that much" is just... Get a grip. This is the price of AAA Sony titles. Why take issue with Returnal and not their other games?

 

[ClickyCal']

I actually think it's this plus knowing Housemarque's catalogue of smaller games. It's not like the devs are known for creating big AAA games. A genre that is typically the land of £10-20 games plus a developer who has traditionally made games like Alienation, Resogun and Nex Machina (so generally about $15 games) combined to make some pause I think.

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Yea, but it's not like we haven't already seen other devs go up to big genres. Horizon and Days Gone being two other Sony examples. Now those were to open world and not a rogue like, but neither GG or Bend...or even SP really were seen at the now prestigious level they are at.

 

[Deleted member 63122]

On Era, but not so much in the mainstream.

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Mainstream don't care, PS5 is sold out. At the end of the day is a forum and Twitter echo chamber. And a good chunk of them will buy the thing anyways. Specially Nintendo fans, they'll keep crying and complaining for months but are there day 1. mario Collection and Pokemon showed that.

Which brings what the article say, while they finish the tweet, they jump to Amazon to hit preorder.

What I have noticed with the Nintendo crowd is that they "complain" to look cool on Social Media and get likes and views, but don't stick to their views.

 

[TheWooniestWoona]

The way I see it Returnal will be $30 in a few months, so buying it day one would be crazy. If I am willing to wait a bit longer I can probably get it for $20 or less pretty easily.

Meanwhile Zelda will be $60 for years, so might as well jump on now.

I don't really know how Nintendo managed to make their games work at full price for so long, but they did. You can criticize them all you want, but people continue to pay it, so why on earth would they not charge full price?

 

[GattsuSama]

Basically "it's rogue like, so it shouldn't be full priced". What if this is the game to bring rogue likes to the mainstream though and to AAA games?

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Exactly what I thought about it.

I would love a AAA roguelike and Returnal seems like it, Deathloop not so much anymore. but still using a unqiue "indie" like mechanic for the game.

After playing Hades, my GOTY in 2020, I want to see how other big name studios can maybe make their own style of game as a Roguelike.

If a Supergiant type game worked so well as a Roguelike I want to see something like a Souls game as a Roguelike, a Nintendo franchise.

 

[ghostcrew]

Yea, but it's not like we haven't already seen other devs go up to big genres. Horizon and Days Gone being two other Sony examples. Now those were to open world and not a rogue like, but neither GG or Bend...or even SP really were seen at the now prestigious level they are at.

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I'm confident Housemarque will make the step successfully for what it's worth. It's not like they wanted to keep making arcade style games forever.

I can just see why some people give pause to the idea of them leaping into $70 territory, with a roguelite no less.

 

[TheRealTalker]

As long as Sony doesn't make people forget that Ratchet exist before its release I think it will do fine, it can survive by just brand name alone as well as the quality of the studio that produces it and the pedigree they are known for in the mainstream.

 

[Deleted member 63122]

I think the comparisons, (publishers and console makers), in this case is pretty wrong. I know those 3 games will be polished, at the worst of thing will be good games and complete upon release.

The price comparisons should be made with Nintendo, Sony games and oublishers that release incomplete and unpolished games for full price.

I know I can jump to SIE and Nintendo games and get a full and polished experience on day 1, can say the same for Ubisoft and 2K.

 

[Barrel Cannon]

It's funny.... At one point I considered ratchet and Clank a budget game in terms of perceived value. I wouldn't want to pay more than $20/30 for the games. Over the last 2 decades insomniac has really bolstered the games brand and I do feel it's an easier pill to swallow now

 

[Dragonyeuw]

Skyward Sword HD on either a MS or Sony platform would have likely been a $40 release ( and the same for all these other years old ports/remasters). Nintendo knows their market will (begrudgingly in some cases) fork over $60 and based on how its presale are tracking on Amazon, they have no reason to price it as a budget title. Sony, by contrast, wouldn't be able to sell a title like Shadow of the Colossus remake at $60 and even if they tried to, the market knows that title will drop substantially fairly quickly. Not only will Skyward Sword launch at $60, it will stay in the ballpark of that price for years to come.