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GIBiz: Returnal, Skyward Sword, Ratchet & Clank and the value of video games
- Thread starter Bundy
- Start date
I think far too many people are stuck in the mindset of "full-price or bomba". The reality is that games have much longer sales tails than they've ever had thanks to PS Store. So while I don't really agree with the £70 price point of Returnal, I have to imagine there are smart people at Sony who know X number of people will buy it at £70, but Y number of people will buy it at £50, and so on.
Surely they plan the game's sales trajectory around multiple promotional points now, rather than look at it as, "Oh it bombed at £70, so now we have to panic price drop." I'm sure they have a rough idea of when they're going to discount the price, how much they're going to discount it by, and what they expect the sales to look like at each stage.
Surely they plan the game's sales trajectory around multiple promotional points now, rather than look at it as, "Oh it bombed at £70, so now we have to panic price drop." I'm sure they have a rough idea of when they're going to discount the price, how much they're going to discount it by, and what they expect the sales to look like at each stage.
Yea, it's really weird and unfair. Same with Crash nsane compared to Crash 4. Crash 4 is a brand new game. Like how Mario Odyssey is a new game.
The last full priced Ratchet game launched in 2009. There have been at least three budget-priced games in the series since then. Seems like an expectation has been set for some that R&C is a budget franchise now, whether fairly or not.
I certainly wont pay new prices for games, in Poland it translates to often 50%+ raise. The used market here is massive and its gonna get even bigger, judging by the few 70$ dollar releases like ds, sackboy and godfall the prices are going to drop in a matter of weeks drastically.
$90 Canadian is a fuck ton of money for a game. I dont have a problem paying it because I think many games these days offer 50+ hours of entertainment which is less than I would spend doing things for entertainment for 50 hours. But it is a significant chunk of money down front. I do think it is overblown how much this will affect sales.
Games have long legs these days. Sales will factor into a game's profitability. No one except Nintendo thinks they are going to sell a game at full price its entire life.
Games have long legs these days. Sales will factor into a game's profitability. No one except Nintendo thinks they are going to sell a game at full price its entire life.
All I know is that when Nintendo misses the mark on their games, their prices drop insanely fast. Remembering back to Metroid Other M and Animal Crossing: Amiibo Festival. Both of those hit the bargain bin very quickly.
People think 3D platformers should be cheap unless its a Mario.
Nintendo has a massive fanbase that will buy anything they print at whichever price they want. The dissident voices are a very, very small minority. That's not something you get easily and its done wonders for them. In a way they managed to do what the sports genre did (only they pretty much kept the quality of their releases).
I've no idea how they managed to accomplish that. I can understand people growing up with Mario and Zelda (hell, my first console was a famicom) but they've been able to consistently get younger people on their platform too.
I've no idea how they managed to accomplish that. I can understand people growing up with Mario and Zelda (hell, my first console was a famicom) but they've been able to consistently get younger people on their platform too.
I think people are a bit too wary of Returnal flopping. I think it being one of the only PS5 games in a pretty hungry userbase will earn it some respectable sales at least.
While I do legitmately think Nintendo overprices their ports, theyll eventually wont be able to sell old games as comfortably as they do now. The more time passes the more digital libraries carrying over to new hardware are valued, and with BC you cant just sell old ports.
While I do legitmately think Nintendo overprices their ports, theyll eventually wont be able to sell old games as comfortably as they do now. The more time passes the more digital libraries carrying over to new hardware are valued, and with BC you cant just sell old ports.
Yeah, when I get a PS5 down the road, I'm just renting the exclusives. Fuck those $70 price tags.
I'm ready to pay $70 for Returnal, if it indeed ends up checking all the boxes of gorgeous arcade shooter + exploration + sci fi mystery narrative + cosmic horror.
It gives me a vibe of a Fromsoft x Dead Space x Housemarque mix, and I'm here for it.
That is, IF the reviews and impressions are good (as I hope they will be), because the crux of the matter is really the pre-order culture, not paying a day 1 "premium" (we all know most games drop about 20-30% within 3-4 months) for excellent games.
Somehow it seems Nintendo is generally immune to that calculation in spite of complaints, but it's probably in large part due to having a very dedicated (some would say rabbid) fanbase.
It gives me a vibe of a Fromsoft x Dead Space x Housemarque mix, and I'm here for it.
That is, IF the reviews and impressions are good (as I hope they will be), because the crux of the matter is really the pre-order culture, not paying a day 1 "premium" (we all know most games drop about 20-30% within 3-4 months) for excellent games.
Somehow it seems Nintendo is generally immune to that calculation in spite of complaints, but it's probably in large part due to having a very dedicated (some would say rabbid) fanbase.
Nintendo sold over a million copies of Twilight Princess HD on Wii U, a system that could play the original game via BC. Switch 2 being BC isn't going to stop Nintendo from releasing a new "Definitive Edition" of BotW if they want to. Outside of the Wii U to Switch ports, Nintendo typically waits a long time between re-releases, which helps them to re-sell old games successfully.
£60 is too high. £70 is into 'I literally can't afford to pay that for a single game' territory.
VC standards nowadays also include enhancing games to HD though, so while that was valid before, theyll have to add some extra content and remaster assets if they want to charge full price for it again in the future imo. Unless Nintendo just completely ignores BC, which could happen tbh.
I think people being more and more entitled to not buying the same game again in HD is a real thing.
none of those were full games, two were small games which lasted 4-5 hours and another one which was a remake. even the full length multiplayer spin off released in 2011 was full priced.
I pre ordered it.
You have never at 80€ (and any game to be clear).
Demon's Souls is still at 80€
R&C is 70€ and a 15€ coupon too (so basically like previous PS4 games).
It doesn't really matter if they were "full games" or not. It's still possible R&C is seen as a budget franchise now, since the previous three entries have been sold for less than full price and there hasn't been a "full game" in almost eleven years. That's on Sony for how they've managed the brand, not on consumers.
It's also quite possible this game sells millions of copies at $70 and none of this really matters.
Id rather pay 70 for Returnal or Ratchet than 60 for a 10 year old lazy ass upscale Nintendo game. Sucks that media make excuses for them.
That said I haven't and won't buy any game for 70 usd either, i'll wait for a sale. Hoping the market follows and they are forced to lower the MSRP back to 60. Games drop in price fast so publishers should be really happy with the support they receive at launch from their fans. Now they will sell less and drop in price quicker, its counter intuitive.
That said I haven't and won't buy any game for 70 usd either, i'll wait for a sale. Hoping the market follows and they are forced to lower the MSRP back to 60. Games drop in price fast so publishers should be really happy with the support they receive at launch from their fans. Now they will sell less and drop in price quicker, its counter intuitive.
It could be based on the amount of Gold/Platinium release edition sold at a far higher price for a long time in the industry.
But then people also even said it for Crash 4. "The remakes were $40, why isn't the new game?" Maybe because it's a brand new game and not remakes.
It's build around longevity. I don't expect reviews to be hars at all. It's a new IP full of ambition and interesting ideas, made by a developer known for its great gameplay.
Returnal having a randomized designs isn't that big of an issue. It can be an AAA game while still having randomized elements. What matters is how much meat the game actually has. A rouge like AAA game sounds pretty cool to me as it allows them to go even further than your average indie game where the devs can't afford to make it bigger and meatier.
As for the price itself, I don't mind it having full priced. What I do not like however is the games being more expansive than last gen. Especially in europe. For that reason I don't think I will buy it day one nor will I buy any other game with that price.
To put it simply, the game being priced like any AAA game isn't an issue. The overall price being higher for every game is the problem.
As for the price itself, I don't mind it having full priced. What I do not like however is the games being more expansive than last gen. Especially in europe. For that reason I don't think I will buy it day one nor will I buy any other game with that price.
To put it simply, the game being priced like any AAA game isn't an issue. The overall price being higher for every game is the problem.
I won't blink at spending $70 for Horizon Forbidden West or God of War Ragnarok, but something unproven like Returnal I'm not so sure. Maybe it'll showered in 10/10 review scores and I'll go for it, we'll see.
Nintendo can get away with things that other companies can't.
As far as what games should cost, I don't think it should be based on how much playtime you get out of a title. That encourages game design too much. I would rather see devs charge you based on other things like cost of production.
I feel like there is a stigma of games costing less than full price and that's why we don't see more games costing $40-50.
As far as what games should cost, I don't think it should be based on how much playtime you get out of a title. That encourages game design too much. I would rather see devs charge you based on other things like cost of production.
I feel like there is a stigma of games costing less than full price and that's why we don't see more games costing $40-50.
Most Sony first party games on PS4 are sold for 20$ on PSN around 9 months after release. I can wait. Since PS5 games are more expensive, I think most of them should be around 30$ after a year. Plenty of games to play until then. Unless you want to play day 1 or show tremendous amounts of support, buying a game at release isn't worth it. I keep telling this to myself because I occasionaly buy a game day 1, but now most of my game purchases are bundles or games sold at less than 20$.
I think it's quite fair enough for publishers to set whatever price they want at release.
The people that really want said game and are willing to part with £70 for the privilege of playing on release day will do so. Those others who feel like the value proposition isn't there for them at release will wait for a price drop. And that's when the market starts working. If the game continues to be in high demand at that initial price, for whatever reasons, be they quality, playtime, originality or a combination of these, then people will continue purchasing it at that price and those who were waiting for a price drop will eventually realise that they will simply have to accept that if they want to play it, they'll have to part with a higher amount of money that they initially were willing to do.
However if demand falls, then the price will drop and those who were waiting will get it for the value they deemed was right for them. In the end everyone gets the game at the point they want to and publishers get to learn their lesson. If a game is deemed good, for whatever advantages it possesses, they'll try the same recipe for success. If not, they'll get the message that more needs to be done.
The people that really want said game and are willing to part with £70 for the privilege of playing on release day will do so. Those others who feel like the value proposition isn't there for them at release will wait for a price drop. And that's when the market starts working. If the game continues to be in high demand at that initial price, for whatever reasons, be they quality, playtime, originality or a combination of these, then people will continue purchasing it at that price and those who were waiting for a price drop will eventually realise that they will simply have to accept that if they want to play it, they'll have to part with a higher amount of money that they initially were willing to do.
However if demand falls, then the price will drop and those who were waiting will get it for the value they deemed was right for them. In the end everyone gets the game at the point they want to and publishers get to learn their lesson. If a game is deemed good, for whatever advantages it possesses, they'll try the same recipe for success. If not, they'll get the message that more needs to be done.
The new price has been a big turn off for me. Here in Canada, it puts new ps5 games at over $100 with the tax. Going triple digits has a psychological effect on me I guess. There are few games where I'd happily pay that amount, and ironically several of the franchises where I would pay that price are going to be part of game pass so I won't have to. When I can get games from franchises I love for "free" that also makes it harder to drop over $100 on a game that may be objectively good, but I'm still not passionate about.
For me it is increasingly making more sense to get my gaming fix from game pass as much as possible, and for the rest wait for deep discounts. It's not that big of a deal to wait 6-12 months to play this stuff. On the other hand, I am happily paying full price for Mass Effect Legendary edition since it's one of my favorites (and the value proposition is better when you consider it's easily over 100 hours of unique content I know I already love).
I have a PS5 and all I've really played is backlog, PS plus collection, and games that got 60fps patches (which have been great). I'm still waiting for a good sale on Demon's Souls and Miles Morales (the one that includes the first game) since I found it difficult to pay 30% of the console's price on just 2 games. I want to play the new Ratchet, but not for 100 dollars. I probably should've waited a year before grabbing a ps5 so all the games were already discounted. Oh well.
For me it is increasingly making more sense to get my gaming fix from game pass as much as possible, and for the rest wait for deep discounts. It's not that big of a deal to wait 6-12 months to play this stuff. On the other hand, I am happily paying full price for Mass Effect Legendary edition since it's one of my favorites (and the value proposition is better when you consider it's easily over 100 hours of unique content I know I already love).
I have a PS5 and all I've really played is backlog, PS plus collection, and games that got 60fps patches (which have been great). I'm still waiting for a good sale on Demon's Souls and Miles Morales (the one that includes the first game) since I found it difficult to pay 30% of the console's price on just 2 games. I want to play the new Ratchet, but not for 100 dollars. I probably should've waited a year before grabbing a ps5 so all the games were already discounted. Oh well.
I've been wondering about this difference and whether Sony should have opted for Nintendo's pricing model, which is to price it at £50 and it basically never goes down. Some of the £70 games have already seen much more drastic reductions in sales etc. I wonder if it's even worth it for them to charge £70 for a few months if it just puts a lot of people off buying it. I wouldn't mind paying £70 if that pricetag included everything, including future dlc, as the cost for some complete games has been £70 or more for years now, but there's pretty much always a digital deluxe with more content.
Pretty subjective matter.
I remember paying 149,99 ( in Dutch 'guldens' , which is about 67 pounds nowadays ) back in the day for most N64 games, so gaming has never been really cheap.
In about 25 years, there is hardly any increase in price.
Sure I would like them to be cheaper, and I'm not saying they should cost 70 pounds, but in 25 years, most things got way more expensive.
I remember paying 149,99 ( in Dutch 'guldens' , which is about 67 pounds nowadays ) back in the day for most N64 games, so gaming has never been really cheap.
In about 25 years, there is hardly any increase in price.
Sure I would like them to be cheaper, and I'm not saying they should cost 70 pounds, but in 25 years, most things got way more expensive.
$70 is too much for any videogame no matter how much they try to justify it with padding. Full price is ridiculous for a remaster.
I'll gladly pay $10 for those games in a while and not ever play Skyward Sword because I consider that self-harm.
I'll gladly pay $10 for those games in a while and not ever play Skyward Sword because I consider that self-harm.
70$ is a hard sell for any game. I think Returnal is going to have a hard time at that price. 50$ or 40$ would be such a better entry point. Yeah obviously it'll drop over time but if you get the gaming zeitgeist in all at the same time it has better visibility and maybe word of mouth. The more people playing the game at the same time the better. Let's not forget that a good percentage of PS5 players have no choice but to fork over 70$ if they want to even try Returnal. Yes, PS store sales have happened frequently but they have less incentive to do so when a greater portion of their audience is now at mercy of the digital price. They don't have to compete with Walmart or Target or Amazon so games can stay at their high price point. Nintendo doesn't get a pass for me either. It's ridiculous and I won't play any of those ports until the switch gets a Nintendo Selects line.
I tend to wait for games to drop in price before picking them up. There are a few exceptions, Naughty Dog, Santa Monica and Insomniac, basically. Those three are typically day one buys because they've earned that from me at this point.
Ultimately the market decides what it wants to pay.
My gut feeling is that the increased prices will harm sales of games like Returnal and Godfall (new ips from new or relatively unknown devs) but won't have much of an impact on bigger, more established titles like Ratchet, Horizon, God of War, etc.
My gut feeling is that the increased prices will harm sales of games like Returnal and Godfall (new ips from new or relatively unknown devs) but won't have much of an impact on bigger, more established titles like Ratchet, Horizon, God of War, etc.
£70 is insane for a video game (or £90 for the digital deluxe edition). Especially when last gen it was £40 and there are still plenty of companies who haven't boosted the price.
Like, I can get a year of game pass for that. Or I can get two switch games using the Nintendo codes for £80.
Godfall coming at £70 on release date...jesus.
I don't know about y'all, but If I see a game I am vaguely interested in come out with a reasonable price at launch then I am way more tempted to buy it
Like, I can get a year of game pass for that. Or I can get two switch games using the Nintendo codes for £80.
Godfall coming at £70 on release date...jesus.
I don't know about y'all, but If I see a game I am vaguely interested in come out with a reasonable price at launch then I am way more tempted to buy it
And guess what? Crash 4 has sold notably worse in the same time span and will assuredly not come close to scratching at where the trilogy collection wound up at in the end. Some IPs and genres (hell, both combined in this case) genuinely do not have the strength to overcome the perception of a poor value proposition, regardless of how fair it looks on paper and in practice.
Sony has shown that they're at least aware of pricing concerns, hence Destruction All-Stars having a colossal price drop before it releases outside of PS+, but that can recoup its costs by being a GaaS title. Returnal feels like it's caught between a rock and a hard place in comparison, so I have to think that Sony is content to hope for the best by positioning it as a full AAA experience, which is reflected by how the trailers have been cut to emphasize the mystery box aspect of the game's narrative. Will enough folks bite? I doubt it, but I don't think there's much else Sony can do about it at this point.
In the UK (the way I see it) the respective value has stayed the same for Nintendo, got substantially worse for Sony and substantially better for Xbox.
If I were to pre order Returnal for £70 thats the same as what I paid for 3 years of Gamepass. The value disparity is beyond belief and has basically ensured I won't get a PS5 for another 2-3 years
If I were to pre order Returnal for £70 thats the same as what I paid for 3 years of Gamepass. The value disparity is beyond belief and has basically ensured I won't get a PS5 for another 2-3 years
Having never played Skyward Sword, and having that option to play it mobile, I have no issue paying $60. Ratchet by all means is next gen and looks full fledged so just because the last title was $40, doesn't mean this isn't worth the $70 asking price.
Now, I don't know how much substance Returnal has but if I can get Hades for $25, and this is similar albeit with much better graphics and a more intricate engine, I don't think over $40 is justified. But we'll wait and see.
Now, I don't know how much substance Returnal has but if I can get Hades for $25, and this is similar albeit with much better graphics and a more intricate engine, I don't think over $40 is justified. But we'll wait and see.
And people wonder why Nintendo consistently charges 60 bucks for all of their games.
Here in the UK we've gone from £50-55 for most new AAA games last gen, with £55-60 for the few most expensive like COD or FIFA, to £70 across the board for all PS5 releases. It just doesn't sit right with me, and even though I don't expect to have a PS5 any time soon, when I do get one I will bit waiting on price drops across the board.
I'll preface this by saying that I am 100% guilty of this myself; I posted in a Returnal thread earlier about how I'm personally unsure of the game's value proposition.
I think the ultimate outcome of rising game prices is that people are going to save their money to spend on a few surefire purchases, to the exclusion of all other full-price games. This is a much riskier environment for something like Returnal than it is for a Spider-Man or a God of War. Hell, it's a much riskier environment for Ratchet & Clank, which is a known and beloved franchise but not quite as beloved as Sony's top franchises.
It doesn't necessarily mean that people won't play games that don't fit a very strict triple-A mold, but it does potentially mean that people won't want to risk $70 on games that don't fit that mold. I also think the audience this is likely to impact the most is people like the ones on this forum, who buy a lot of games per year compared to the average person, and for whom a $10 increase per game adds up very quickly. (Depending on where you live, like Canada, that price increase is just the cherry on top; at one point this decade prices were $60 CAD, and now we're looking at $90 for many games.) For someone who buys maybe a handful of games this matters a lot less, but these are also the people who were less likely to buy anything outside the triple-A template in the first place.
I think Returnal can still do well in an environment like this, but it'll require fantastic word of mouth/reviews to do it. It's not going to perform well based on previews or pre-release footage alone. The era of speculative full-price purchases (the "oh this looks interesting I'll give it a chance" era) is closing.
I think the ultimate outcome of rising game prices is that people are going to save their money to spend on a few surefire purchases, to the exclusion of all other full-price games. This is a much riskier environment for something like Returnal than it is for a Spider-Man or a God of War. Hell, it's a much riskier environment for Ratchet & Clank, which is a known and beloved franchise but not quite as beloved as Sony's top franchises.
It doesn't necessarily mean that people won't play games that don't fit a very strict triple-A mold, but it does potentially mean that people won't want to risk $70 on games that don't fit that mold. I also think the audience this is likely to impact the most is people like the ones on this forum, who buy a lot of games per year compared to the average person, and for whom a $10 increase per game adds up very quickly. (Depending on where you live, like Canada, that price increase is just the cherry on top; at one point this decade prices were $60 CAD, and now we're looking at $90 for many games.) For someone who buys maybe a handful of games this matters a lot less, but these are also the people who were less likely to buy anything outside the triple-A template in the first place.
I think Returnal can still do well in an environment like this, but it'll require fantastic word of mouth/reviews to do it. It's not going to perform well based on previews or pre-release footage alone. The era of speculative full-price purchases (the "oh this looks interesting I'll give it a chance" era) is closing.