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Bundy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
20,931
Returnal, Skyward Sword and the value of video games | Opinion

The thorny issue of video game pricing has reared its head in recent weeks. First, Nintendo revealed a remaster of the Wii game The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, complete with $60/£50 price tag. Fans took to social media: How can Nintendo justify that? A port of a game at the same price as an entirely original product? People were furious, and then rushed to Amazon and pre-ordered it anyway.

The conversation was ignited again after PlayStation's recent State of Play event, particularly around Housemarque's PS5 title Returnal. Sony has slapped a $70/£70 price tag on the new horror IP, and Twitter decried the decision as folly. A new IP without any major marketable assets, releasing alongside bigger, more affordable products like Resident Evil: Village? It doesn't stand a chance.

Let's bring this back to the subject at hand -- and specifically Nintendo, which has almost always delivered high quality games, and has an active audience of fans who really value those experiences. It has always charged a premium price for Mario and Zelda products -- even in the mobile space -- and therefore the benefit vs cost equation works for Nintendo. Customers expect high quality and believe it to be worth a premium price.

A good example of this is Mario 3D All-Stars. The collection launched last September and was rather cheaply made -- it is three ports of old Mario games and a menu of music -- but it was priced at $60. Read the social media comments and it's clear that some fans felt charging full price for this was outrageous, and that Nintendo could either have given them more for their money or set a budget price.

Yet despite what was said on social media, Mario 3D All-Stars shipped 8.3 million globally. The reality is that customers expect to pay for Mario games, and $60 for 60 to 70 hours of gameplay -- less than $1 an hour -- is perceived as good value by those players.

To give a personal example (remember, value is subjective), and to bring us onto the topic of Sony, let's talk about the upcoming Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart -- which, like all full first-party PS5 games, is being sold in the UK for £70. I love Ratchet & Clank, it is one of my all-time favourite franchises, and my benefit expectation for the upcoming PS5 title is extremely high. Yet when I saw that price, I hesitated.

I have spent more than £70 on video games before, but I've not spent anywhere near that for a Ratchet & Clank title. In fact, the last game on PS4, the remake of the original, cost me £30 brand new. I do expect to pay more for an all-new PS5 title, but double the price? The benefit/cost equation isn't working so well in this case.

Unlike Nintendo, Sony doesn't have a reputation for high prices on software -- hardware is a different matter -- so trying to convince it fans that $70 for Ratchet & Clank or Returnal is good value is a tall order.

Of course, that quality needs to be delivered upon. If Sony doesn't keep up its run of form, the PlayStation Studios badge will become meaningless. Worldwide Studios games have to be big, high quality and the best at what they do, which is perhaps why Sony has invested in its bigger studios and cut teams like Japan Studio.

More here: Source
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,792
Ratchet & Clank won't have a problem so isn't really a "tall order", but Returnal probably will.
 

Deleted member 9584

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,132
Consider me part of the problem. I have no issue with SSHD at $60, but as of right now Sony has yet to show me why Returnal is worth $70, which I will not buy until it is nearly half that price at the highest.

The $70 price tag comes with more scrutiny and higher expectations. If Sony wants to charge $70 for games, they can't just be prettier versions of what they released in previous gens, it needs to push the envelope and provide an experience that is truly new, and a 20-30 hour linear Naughty Dog game (like they been making for two generations) isn't going to cut it for me at that price.
 

Mr.Fletcher

Member
Nov 18, 2017
9,525
UK
£70 is too much for any game. That said, I think Ratchet will thrive. I think Returnal could struggle.

Skyward Sword is a rip off no doubt about it.
 

Astandahl

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,010
Interesting article but the point about R&C is stupid because the PS4 game was a low budget remake of the first game planned to be released alongside the movie.
R&C (main) games used to be full price before.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,234
UK NW
The £70 price tag regardless of who it is immediately puts me off buying day one.
If I buy day one its through using greenmangaming or any discount I can find on the game for it.

Still weird though, £55 is the highest that I've seen on pc up to now though I expect that to change by the end of next year.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,234
UK NW
Should note though the general public as always won't care which is why this price hike happened in the first place.
Publishers saw an opportunity to increase revenue/profits which for the most part will have no consequences.
Returnal looks fantastic but I won't be buying it until it either drops in price and I somehow secure a PS5 haha.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,179
Really love my ps5 and I think the games they're putting out are or look like they're gonna be awesome. I just can't pay £70 for them, its too much. I also don't really mind wishlisting them and getting them on the first sale though, so it is what it is. I've reconciled my purchasing habits will have to change this gen.

Then again on the other hand, I'll pay full price for Nintendo's output without blinking, so value is really in the eye of the beholder I guess.
 

Scruffy8642

Member
Jan 24, 2020
2,849
I would be legit surprised if Returnal doesn't flop. And it'll break my heart because so love Housemarque. Even at 30$ it probably won't do great... I think for the first time this gen I'll be buying games and selling them as soon as I finish them. Just too expensive.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,474
I much rather pay 70 bucks for Returnal than 60 for a remaster of a Wii game that never blew me away in the first place. Returnal looks fresh and exciting and Housemarque is as much a seal of quality as Nintendo. They deserve all the support in the world as fas as I'm concerned.
 

Arn

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,735
The £70 price tag is disgusting and just shouldn't be a thing. But money talks and the PlayStation audience are happy to pay it, so more power to them.

The industry has been on a constant reckoning with value for two generations now, which has seen a huge pitfall in the number of middling AA titles released at retail. There needs to be a more fluid pricing system, that's for sure.
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,629
Ratchet will probably do fine at that price but I can't see Returnal doing well. I'm interested in both games, especially Returnal, and can't justify spending £70 on new games, even if I already have the console. Especially when I was paying £40-£50 before for new games, or still am with cross-gen games like Hitman.
 

Izzard

Banned
Sep 21, 2018
4,606
I think £70 is too much imo but I will buy some games day one regardless. It has made me consider purchases more. Like, I'd buy a load of games day one and not play all of them, because I had too many. Now I buy, I play through, I get another cheaper than launch price.
Kinda helped my complete games and get more value, the price hike has.
 

MonadL

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,888
I would be legit surprised if Returnal doesn't flop. And it'll break my heart because so love Housemarque. Even at 30$ it probably won't do great... I think for the first time this gen I'll be buying games and selling them as soon as I finish them. Just too expensive.
It wasn't going to do well no matter what if Housemarque's previous titles are anything to go by.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,327
I just hope exec's see through the sales data and put the blame on the approach rather than Housemarque. It'll come out at £70, not do so hot, be at £50 at a couple months top doing slightly better, then hit £35 by the end of summer and do fine. The problem is if they'll be missing out on the day one bump.

£70 in people's heads is only going to really fit for FromSoftware, Naughty Dog, Santa Monica (if It's GoW) and Guerilla. Premium price points demand 'premium' experiences and that mindshare takes years.
 

Croc Man

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,546
The other factor not mentioned is that there's a high chance the £50 Nintendo game will hold it's value to some degree (maybe even increase in value).

There's less history of PlayStation games doing the same (Although of course some do).
 
May 25, 2019
6,026
London
The article gets at a point I've been thinking about in recent years. I look at a new AC release in October and realize it'll be 20% off or more on Black Friday or Christmas sales, or 33% off or more by spring. Sometimes that doesn't matter, like when I just bought Odyssey at launch because I loved Origins so much, but other years it definitely plays a factor. I'm currently waiting out Valhalla because I'm not totally in love with the setting.

Game Pass also plays a huge role in this. I looked hard at Valhalla being $35 or so on the XBL sale this weekend but decided to just fire up a Game Pass game instead.
 

Puffy

Banned
Dec 15, 2017
3,585
At least sony's game will go down in price. Full priced wii ports that never go down in price are more egregious.
 

Deleted member 51848

Jan 10, 2019
1,408
Most long-time Nintendo customers understand that first party titles hardly ever decrease in price because a sale to Nintendo is brand-damaging. Fortunately their games are usually long or highly re-playable and well-received and so that perception is maintained. The other consoles don't have that issue because they discount so heavily on both first-party and third-party titles. Most people know that the new Assassins Creed will be two-thirds of the price within 16 - 30 weeks depending on units sold. More digital sales might change that.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,762
Game pricing is quickly becoming the most compelling argument for me yet to switch over to playing on Xbox in the near future. I really can't justify regularly putting down that much money on games anymore, and I feel it's gonna bite games like Returnal especially (Destruction All-Stars managed to avoid this kind of fate for now). Game Pass is becoming an appealing prospect by the day.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,354
I think pricing and being ok the x, y or z price is so subjective that it's a difficult conversation to be had. Some will scoff at the idea of paying £70 for a new game. Some will happily throw £150 at a collectors edition. Some will say 'they were crazy to ever think about selling Destruction Allstars for $70!' but then I look at my play stats and I've already played it for more hours than I played Demon's Souls (and I finished it). So why shouldn't it cost the same? Some will say £50 is too much for one Nintendo game but happily pay it for another. We all have different barriers and lines that we won't cross and, importantly, different amounts of disposable income.

I think, for me, I'm not outraged by the prices publishers charge for their games. It's their product, go mad. Charge what you want. It's a toy. But the market will decide if it's worth that.

Nintendo have proven, as the article says, that their games (hell, even their basic remasters) will sell millions upon millions at a full $60. They don't need to drop the price. They don't need to watch the market and do deep sales every six months. Because people buy them. That's, for the market, what those games are worth.

I guess I question whether the £70 price range will have an effect for certain games. A negative effect. I've spoken before about seeing Godfall show up in a PSN sale at a pretty deep discount of an advertised 43% off and when that still comes through at £40... woof. That essentially still feels full price to me. It's close enough to all the other £49.99 games that it might as well be. At 43% off. I feel like the hardcore will still buy games new regardless. Ratchet fans will buy Ratchet whether it's £60 or £70. But it's that secondary market that pick the games up reduced a few months later and gives games a little second wind that might suffer. AA tier games often get a really decent boost in interest when they get their first deep price drop. People who weren't sold at first take a second look. But when that deep discount for a Sony game only brings it down to around or just under what other publishers are charging for their games day one anyway? It's a hard sell for the sales crowd. I think that's where we'll see the casualties.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
The other factor not mentioned is that there's a high chance the £50 Nintendo game will hold it's value to some degree (maybe even increase in value).

There's less history of PlayStation games doing the same (Although of course some do).
This is extremely true which is why I'll typically get Nintendo games on day 1 because I know that price isn't dropping any time soon.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,888
It is totally irrational but $60 feels much cheaper than $70.

I think I will be used to the $70 price tag in another year or two.

I remember a similar price shock during the 16 bit generation. Prices for games were outrageous. We definitely bought less games as a result but it did become normal pretty quickly. When you really want a game you would probably pay even more for it.
 

panda-zebra

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,737
Not bought a £70 ps5 game so far and no intention to do so at all going forward. It's crazy money. I got a dozen games in the indie sale for under £20, I can play stuff like that until the prices fall.

Used to be fine buying in day one when games could be had for £30ish, then it started to push to around £40. The only times I've paid over 50 were special editions and a very misguided Avengers Digital Deluxe. I think it was that game that finally convinced me to just stay the fuck away and give the middle finger to FOMO and wait for the real reception and fair pricing.

Returnal looks amazing. Like very top tier indie good. It also looks like a game I'd pay up to £30 for, not £70.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,414
Price is not the hurdle we all think it is and more importantly there are enough loyal customers who will buy up games at full price. As I have said previously, the $70 price is designed to milk the day one customer (your most loyal followers). Yes I am unlikely to buy many games at $70 but frankly I wasn't paying $60 for most games anyhow even if bought on release day. Something like Returnal might have also struggled at $60 or even $40.
 

Aether

Member
Jan 6, 2018
4,421
70€ as a price tag is not something i'll ever pay.

Returnal: honelsty, we had New IPS that sold great.We'll see how the hype/reviews are then itreleases. And even then, its fail will not mean that new ipc cant cost that much compared to old ones...what kinda moon logic is that?
Days gone? Horizon Zero Dawn? Death Stranding?

R&C: why does every entry in a series have to be the same price?
Zelda games had 4 tires for quite some time (mobile entries for 30-40€, and Consoles ones for 60€). Captain Toad Treasure Tracker was 40€ and originated in Mario 3D World which was 60€.
It was a remake, to reinvigorate the franchise, and the assets where simultaniously done for a Movie. I see no reason why the next one should not get a "big boy" price tag? Because its cartoon style instead of "realism" and being "dark" and "mature"?

And i still find the price of the rereleases just to high on nintendos part. But they sell. From their point i see it. I will not buy any single easy port for 60€.
 

behOemoth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,622
Consider me part of the problem. I have no issue with SSHD at $60, but as of right now Sony has yet to show me why Returnal is worth $70, which I will not buy until it is nearly half that price at the highest.
How does a developer have to convince you when you are determined to buy cheap ports but no original and ambitious projects?
 

metalgear89

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,018
Jim ryan is a dumbass to price returnal at £70, literally sending it to die. New ip and from a studio who isn't hugely well known. Mayb they can get away with it if it was a god of war,horizon or some naughty dog game. Even pricing ratchet at £70 is borderline risky.
 

Wackamole

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,935
Nintendo is making loads with absolute minimal effort on Switch. Great for them, as long as it results in great new games at some point.
 

supercommodore

Prophet of Truth
Member
Apr 13, 2020
4,190
UK
£70 is quite a tall order for all but a few games.

For me it is a bit crazy to compare that price to the £89.99 I paid last May for Xenoblade DE collectors edition which came with:
  • The game
  • Steelbook
  • Vinyl soundtrack
  • Digital soundtrack
  • Keyring
  • 250 page artbook
  • Poster
£70+ is basically the price I normally expect to pay for collector's editions not just the base game.

Partly the reason why this gen I will be game pass for the first couple years and will be picking up Sony first party titles when they hit sub £30. Because of Nintendo not dropping prices I am usually a bit more careful buying Switch games.

Jim ryan is a dumbass to price returnal at £70, literally sending it to die. New ip and from a studio who isn't hugely well known. Mayb they can get away with it if it was a god of war,horizon or some naughty dog game. Even pricing ratcher at £70 is borderlin risky.

Yes, Returnal at £70 is a tall order. For a lot of people it doesn't justify that price like a new GoW or TLOU.
 

Guaraná

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,987
brazil, unfortunately
User Banned (3 days): Admitting to piracy
That's why I don't really get 'mad' over the pricing (even if they are outrageous in Brazil).

But most Nintendo ports I'll probably just never play because I'm not paying that.
A fada da pirataria visitou meu Switch and everything got better.
But on Playstation games it's easier, I was able to find Mile Morales for 180 reais on Promobit

post ban edit: this was a JOKE and I got banned 30 seconds after posting it without even having the right to defend myself.
"fada da pirataria" or "piracy fairy" is a common joke in some Brazilians videogame groups, I even wrote it in Portuguese so only Portuguese-speaking users would read and understand the joke. I find it very offensive that I get to have this piracy admitting tag without even having the right to defend myself.
 
Last edited:

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,560
Consider me part of the problem. I have no issue with SSHD at $60, but as of right now Sony has yet to show me why Returnal is worth $70, which I will not buy until it is nearly half that price at the highest.

The $70 price tag comes with more scrutiny and higher expectations. If Sony wants to charge $70 for games, they can't just be prettier versions of what they released in previous gens, it needs to push the envelope and provide an experience that is truly new, and a 20-30 hour linear Naughty Dog game (like they been making for two generations) isn't going to cut it for me at that price.

TLOU II had 2k devs and 5+ years of production, something like that but on PS5 would definitely be worth full price.

Old "remasters" I just refuse.
 

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,949
$70 is going to be the new standard console game price going forward. Sony's just getting it started earlier then the others.

Nintendo will be charging $70 for decade old ports as well once they roll out their next console.
 

Ocarina_117

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,570
Returnal is £70? The last trailer for me excited but I am out until a steep price drop.

£70 for ratched and clank is much more than I'm willing to pay, too.
 

MatrixMan.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,499
I think, for me, I'm not outraged by the prices publishers charge for their games. It's their product, go mad. Charge what you want. It's a toy. But the market will decide if it's worth that.

This is what it comes down to at the end of the day. There's no objective answer here and if publishers want to charge more for their games, which are luxury entertainment that the market absolutely has the power to reject then let them. People just need to vote with their wallets.
 

cw_sasuke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,400
There are so many cheap games out there nowadays, so i cant really understand people that complain about prices. Between f2p, subscription games and bombas....the amount of hours you can spend on games for a couple o bucks is ridiculous.

Getting a game on Day 1 or while its full price is a privilege, not something you are entitled or a necessity. Ratchet fans and people that need a next-gen only experience asap on their PS5 will be there Day 1...other parts of the audience might get it down the line when there are more deals out, thats just how it works.
 

Greywaren

Member
Jul 16, 2019
9,920
Spain
80€ is an insane price tag for any game. It may be worth it for some people, but I refuse to pay that much for any game.

I also don't think it's fair to say that some games should be cheaper, though. How do you measure that so it's fair? Should they be more expensive if they were more expensive to make? Should they be more expensive if they're longer? How long or expensive to make should a game be to be worth 80 bucks?

At the end of the day, it's all a matter of waiting until a game has a price that is worth it to you, but that's an issue with companies like Nintendo who refuse to do price cuts until YEARS after launch because "it degrades the value of the game" or whatever bullshit they're using to justify it.
 

Zalman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,896
I'd rather pay 60 for Skyward Sword than 70 for Ratchet. It's all subjective.