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What do YOU want the next OT title to be?

  • What You Do Will Matter, I Promise

    Votes: 42 14.8%
  • I Want To Turn Into A Wolf And Fuck!

    Votes: 106 37.3%
  • Business Dave Energy

    Votes: 39 13.7%
  • Vinny Don't Goof

    Votes: 55 19.4%
  • Money is Yucky, Milk Is Yummy!

    Votes: 42 14.8%

  • Total voters
    284
  • Poll closed .
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Twin Tails

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,764
i wunder if this can be done for persona 4 er
someone get on that
Ha nice that the new Breaking Brad is a Titanfall 2 campaign playthrough. Is Titanfall 2 super hard? Or is he playing it on the highest difficulty to truly make it Breaking Brad?
it is for an achievement of the course at the start of the campaign
can brad become a 1%er
Wrt7vBd.png
 

Megasoum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,563
I just remembered that I could get The Division 2 for free and I wonder if I should...hmmm

I was moderately interested in the first one (played maybe 75% of the missions, all by myself and never touched the PVP part of it).
 

J_Viper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,711
Anthem's "Day One" Patch somehow making everything worse makes me think we just might be in for a Fallout 76-sized disaster
 

Tachya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,496
So a few things.

1. None of that shit is on reviewers? Metacritic bonuses are entirely the result of the (incredibly bad) deal the publishers made with the developers. That's not an agreement the reviewers entered into at all and any results of them giving a bad review should not be on them; hell, for the sake of integrity it explicitly shouldn't be considered. And what are you even trying to say when you're going on about the education of this hypothetical reviewer (and: actually... lol, do you realize what thread you're in)? That they need a college education to truly value the crunch these developers put into a game...? Do you somehow get less fucked over by your employer/publisher if someone with a masters degree and industry experience gives your game a 4/10? This line of thinking is outright nonsensical.

2. Do we even know if these Metacritic deals still happen? Because I sure feel like I haven't heard about any in years and yet people keep bringing them up when this topic comes up.

3. This is incredibly irrelevant to begin with because none of the recent overblown "controversies" over the supposed incompetence of journalists related in the fucking slightest to a significant shift in scoring. Actually, several of them had nothing to do with reviews.

1. So you're saying it's viable for every developer (whether a full studio or a team of a few guys, or even one guy) should just be fully independent from publishers? Not that easy, and certainly not if you're trying to put something on a console.

2. There might not be high profile cases but it wouldn't surprise me if there are still many lower key incentives for hitting certain targets. Whether it's reviews, sales, active users, unique users, etc. It's the kind of shit companies love to tout to their investors/stakeholders. My sister works in advertising, formerly for entertainment properties, now more boring stuff - some of her former co-workers did game as campaigns for devs/publishers (she was mostly tv/film) for the ad agency as an outside consultant on specific types of media (e.g. internet ads vs. TV ads, product placement, billboards or print ads, etc.) Metrics are used for pretty much literally everything these days with big data being a thing, ESPECIALLY ADVERTISING for high profile products that can take hundreds of millions to make.

Just most game publishers know not to be as much of a dick about it as Bethesda was.

3. This is a fairer point, but just because it hasn't happened as much recently doesn't mean it hasn't happened in the past. The Destructoid review of Dark Souls is pegged as a 70/100 on Metacritic (though I don't think the review itself gave a score). Though the author stated he had played the game for over 90 hours and still wasn't done with it. Dark Souls, hailed as perhaps one of the most influential games of the generation has an 89 Metacritic. If someone was shooting for a hard 90+, then yeah even one mixed or outright review can be damaging, especially since Dark Souls wasn't exactly a gangbuster of seller for 2011, from what I can tell, Skyrim, Madden, 2 different Just Dance games, Batman Arkham City, and at least one Call of Duty all sold more. From what I can tell it didn't even break the top 10 in Japan that year either.

Another interesting example might be vanilla Diablo III and later Reaper of Souls. Giant Bomb (Brad FYI) gave the vanilla game a 100/5 Stars, and that was probably before the RMAH launched and more issues became apparent (and iirc not even the gold AH was in on launch day). Overall the vanilla D3 scored one Metacritic point higher than Reaper of Souls. In the Giant Bomb review of the sequel (which was only the console version for whatever reason, so not a 1-1 direct comparison), Jeff reviewed the game and gave it a 4 stars/80%. Diablo III at launch sold over 3.5 million copies in the first 24 hours, over 12 million copies for the base, PC exclusive game in 2012 making it the best selling PC game of the year and at least the 3rd best selling PC game of all time now LTD, perhaps one or two slots lower if you just take even the confirmed first year sales of the base game.

However despite that kind of success, the game was heavily flawed in its initial state, even doing in at least some spots technically less than the current spate of "looter shooters". It went 4 years after being announced to released, and the Blizzard, Irvine version that launched (still changed heavily in those 4 years) would have been in development even longer than that, as the announcement was with a rather well realized 20-minute gameplay slice demo. A Blizzard North version was started in 2001 before being scrapped almost completely with the closure of that studio.

Anyway the base game of Diablo III was so flawed and a dumpster fire even after patches (besides other controversies regarding him) that the game director was eventually shunted down/quarantined to "additional designer" for the Warlords of Draenor WoW expansion among other lesser roles like "strike team" before ultimately leaving Blizzard and the industry altogether in 2016. There were a lot of broken promises and other tidbits of bad publicity that could 100% be pinned on him.

Although to be fair most of the former top brass (especially in design/production) at Blizzard has left by now, whether honorably or dishonorably, so it's kind of a shit show. The leads responsible for the launch of Blizzard's most beloved games/expansions are pretty much all elsewhere now if not retired or working on something unannounced in development, except Jeff Kaplan who is still on Overwatch.

You can argue Metacritic's methodolgy is flawed, but Opencritic also exists, etc. And even if no outright rated reviews existed, I'm sure there would be pressure to have "favorable" reviews from outlet X and Y if not overall critic sentiment.

Also this post got a lot more detailed than I planned so I apologize now if it's a little incoherent — I've been typing it all on my phone as well.
 

daveo42

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,250
Ohio
So RE2 Hardcore is pretty hardcore indeed. Single hits knock you directly into danger. I assume just getting punched from Mr. X from full health is an insta-kill. I definitely flying through the game on a second playthrough, but man is this tough. Even creatures move faster too.
 

Megasoum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,563
I really love CrossCode and I also like puzzles but man once I get to the back half of a dungeon, I'm kinda ready for the puzzles to be over...
 

Tachya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,496
tachya you are saying true things but i don't know how they relate to the current conversation?
seriously I don't understand the points being made here

are these the supposed journalists who were bad and failed upwards, or...

Sorry if you weren't following 100% because I can get detailed, like I'm a RICO lawyer detailed when it comes to the game industry. Some stuff just takes a lot to connect the dots. And this post is still gonna take a minute so buckle up:

My comments here in the past day(?) was tied first to the controversy about reviewers not being very good at games in regards to that Xbox (executive's?) comment about a reviewer(s) needing to "git gud" with Anthem basically.

No, I don't think the people I mentioned were bad journalists. I'd say they were good enough journalists/writers/analysts that they got hired into the development side of the industry. The subtle implication is that most people still in pulpy game journalism/reviews/analysis are doing it because they can't get better or more "prestigious" jobs in the games industry or elsewhere (whether in journalism at large or something else).

Though a cushier games journalism job at a respected establishment is still going to be better than a brutal low-level QA job in most places.

FWIW I'm highly interested in tech if not games alone, and would like to work/am studying to work in the field or a related field, if not as an explicit designer/programmer/artist, then a consultant or technical writer. Maybe work as a games or tech historian — had a professor who did that and he was very interesting, but the academic/historical career path is very rough.

I guess what I'm kinda saying, it's about ethics in game journalism and the game industry at large, but without the whole hateful prejudice and discrimination angle, and without doxxing or other vigilante (whether internet-based or physical world) hate crime aspects.

If you want to call me anything, I'm a fierce meritocratist or technocratist, with the huge caveat that I understand the value and necessity of diverse viewpoints to create better goods and services. Whether that's based on gender, sex, race, place of origin, philosophical beliefs, disabilities (or lack thereof - both mental and physical), age, etc. Any identity qualifier you could think of. I believe that knowledge and truthful information is the root of all power.

Anyway, I'll leave it at that.
 

Tachya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,496

Zero315

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,184
Watched Overlord and A Star Is Born today. Overlord was alright, I was expecting... more, from seeing the trailers. ASIB was alright too, better than Bohemian Rhapsody, but still pretty basic. Definitely carried by the performances of Gaga and Cooper.
 

Hamchan

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,964
I would agree that most game journos are bad at games but then from my view everyone is bad at games compared to me unless you're Shroud or somebody like that.

Thanks,
Ham
 

J_Viper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,711
Giant Bomb |OT12| So you're saying it's viable for every developer (whether a full studio or a team of a few guys, or even one guy) should just be fully independent from publishers? Not that easy, and certainly not if you're trying to put something on a console. There might not be high profile cases but it wouldn't surprise me if there are still many lower key incentives for hitting certain targets. Whether it's reviews, sales, active users, unique users, etc. It's the kind of shit companies love to tout to their investors/stakeholders. My sister works in advertising, formerly for entertainment properties, now more boring stuff - some of her former co-workers did game as campaigns for devs/publishers (she was mostly tv/film) for the ad agency as an outside consultant on specific types of media (e.g. internet ads vs. TV ads, product placement, billboards or print ads, etc.) Metrics are used for pretty much literally everything these days with big data being a thing, ESPECIALLY ADVERTISING for high profile products that can take hundreds of millions to make. Just most game publishers know not to be as much of a dick about it as Bethesda was. This is a fairer point, but just because it hasn't happened as much recently doesn't mean it hasn't happened in the past. The Destructoid review of Dark Souls is pegged as a 70/100 on Metacritic (though I don't think the review itself gave a score). Though the author stated he had played the game for over 90 hours and still wasn't done with it. Dark Souls, hailed as perhaps one of the most influential games of the generation has an 89 Metacritic. If someone was shooting for a hard 90+, then yeah even one mixed or outright review can be damaging, especially since Dark Souls wasn't exactly a gangbuster of seller for 2011, from what I can tell, Skyrim, Madden, 2 different Just Dance games, Batman Arkham City, and at least one Call of Duty all sold more. From what I can tell it didn't even break the top 10 in Japan that year either. Another interesting example might be vanilla Diablo III and later Reaper of Souls. Giant Bomb (Brad FYI) gave the vanilla game a 100/5 Stars, and that was probably before the RMAH launched and more issues became apparent (and iirc not even the gold AH was in on launch day). Overall the vanilla D3 scored one Metacritic point higher than Reaper of Souls. In the Giant Bomb review of the sequel (which was only the console version for whatever reason, so not a 1-1 direct comparison), Jeff reviewed the game and gave it a 4 stars/80%. Diablo III at launch sold over 3.5 million copies in the first 24 hours, over 12 million copies for the base, PC exclusive game in 2012 making it the best selling PC game of the year and at least the 3rd best selling PC game of all time now LTD, perhaps one or two slots lower if you just take even the confirmed first year sales of the base game. However despite that kind of success, the game was heavily flawed in its initial state, even doing in at least some spots technically less than the current spate of "looter shooters". It went 4 years after being announced to released, and the Blizzard, Irvine version that launched (still changed heavily in those 4 years) would have been in development even longer than that, as the announcement was with a rather well realized 20-minute gameplay slice demo. A Blizzard North version was started in 2001 before being scrapped almost completely with the closure of that studio. Anyway the base game of Diablo III was so flawed and a dumpster fire even after patches (besides other controversies regarding him) that the game director was eventually shunted down/quarantined to "additional designer" for the Warlords of Draenor WoW expansion among other lesser roles like "strike team" before ultimately leaving Blizzard and the industry altogether in 2016. There were a lot of broken promises and other tidbits of bad publicity that could 100% be pinned on him. Although to be fair most of the former top brass (especially in design/production) at Blizzard has left by now, whether honorably or dishonorably, so it's kind of a shit show. The leads responsible for the launch of Blizzard's most beloved games/expansions are pretty much all elsewhere now if not retired or working on something unannounced in development, except Jeff Kaplan who is still on Overwatch. You can argue Metacritic's methodolgy is flawed, but Opencritic also exists, etc. And even if no outright rated reviews existed, I'm sure there would be pressure to have "favorable" reviews from outlet X and Y if not overall critic sentiment. Also this post got a lot more detailed than I planned so I apologize now if it's a little incoherent — I've been typing it all on my phone as well
 

OwOtacon

Alt Account
Banned
Dec 18, 2018
2,394
Yakuza being a more respectful series to LGBT people than Persona never ceases to amuse me. One's about hardened criminals who will often start violent fights for no reason, and the other is about teenagers rebelling against corrupt adults.

But Yakuza's the one that fixes its past fuckups in remakes, while Persona/Catherine just doubles down.
 

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,401
Yakuza being a more respectful series to LGBT people than Persona never ceases to amuse me. One's about hardened criminals who will often start violent fights for no reason, and the other is about teenagers rebelling against corrupt adults.

But Yakuza's the one that fixes its past fuckups in remakes, while Persona/Catherine just doubles down.

i mean that sounds like adults and teenagers to me
 

Deleted member 203

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,899
I don't know if you're responding to my post or just the sentiment in general (maybe more in the other thread), but read what I said just above.

I have no real position of authority or stakes in the success of a game I'm still debating on even trying (I'm still somewhat upset with BioWare and EA in general). I didn't like Destiny 2 that much and never even gave The Division much of a chance.

But yes, just because professional critics or even streamers/influencers/etc. has a platform doesn't necessarily mean that they're good at their job in all cases. They usually have a larger platform because they were at least good enough at something related, and the bar for enthusiast press in any entertainment field especially is pretty damn low, to be truthful.

It's a well known concept that people across many fields can end up failing upwards, or just past their actual competency.

Here's a New York Times article: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/06/opinion/sunday/the-art-of-failing-upward.html

I mean FFS there's a famous 1961 musical (also made into a film) based on an 1952 book of a similar name about failing upwards:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Succeed_in_Business_Without_Really_Trying

Game journalists and critics ARE NOT IMMUNE and to think otherwise is foolish.
this is one of the more ridiculous posts i've read recently, well done. You've conflated two completely separate issues. one where a public executive fosters toxicity by attacking a reviewer for calling out bad tutorialization, and the other where people fail upwards in the corporate world. how you even managed to make a leap that big is kind of impressive.
 

Joeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,475
...And now I'm to the Tomb challenges in Anthem with a single contract I haven't done yet. One of them is three quarters done, two are about halfway, and one comprises four things I've barely done at all, apparently. Nah, fuck that. Four hours left in the trial but I'm done with this game.

You didn't tell me who you were when you sent a friend invite on UPlay so I actually turned it down earlier tonight haha
See, Sal? That's what happens when you have different names everywhere.
 

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,494
so I think I might be a liiiiitle overpowered in KH3, cause I fought the boss of The Caribbean tonight and uh

kinda immediately wrecked him

literally



that was not how I expected that to go
 

Joeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,475
Also if any of you want to add me on Uplay please do so at

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