Giant Bomb |GOTY 2018| Cowboys vs. Gods

klastical · Dec 30, 2018

I'm really starting to wonder if these guys playing games on high end PCs are negatively effecting there views of console games. When your playing games on a PC at120 fps (like Jeff does) your probably going to be more bothered by the framerate in GOW, something that most people had no problem with.

kiaaa · Dec 30, 2018

klastical said:
I'm really starting to wonder if these guys playing games on high end PCs are negatively effecting there views of console games. When your playing games on a PC at120 fps (like Jeff does) your probably going to be more bothered by the framerate in GOW, something that most people had no problem with.

People have suggested that Jeff may have been playing a version without the day one patch. Apparently, it had some bad frame pacing issues.

Brad was probably just taking shots to help push RDR2, though.

Rad Bandolar · Dec 30, 2018

klastical said:
I'm really starting to wonder if these guys playing games on high end PCs are negatively effecting there views of console games. When your playing games on a PC at120 fps (like Jeff does) your probably going to be more bothered by the framerate in GOW, something that most people had no problem with.

It's a good question but is the difference really that dramatic? I was a PC gamer in the '90s and every time I saw a console game, I was like "the fuck is this shit?" They were ugly, muddy, and and just looked like absolute dogshit, yet when I hear the GB crew talk about consoles in the '90s, it seems like that was all they played and had positive experiences with them.

I don't see so much of a dramatic difference between PC and console these days as to make someone have an extreme opinion about it.

snausages · Dec 30, 2018

There is definitely an adjustment period when going from high to "low" framerates

Even playing some DMC the other day I went to GoW and felt really confused by how everything moved. It looked wrong, like my TV was busted

But then my eyes got used to it or whatever and it looked fine.

leng jai · Dec 30, 2018

All the RDR 2 discussion over the 5 days perfectly encapsulated how it went over on this forum. At some point basically all the cast complained about the laundry list of flaws/horseshit in the game and Brad was the guy quoting everyone saying none of it affected him.

kingocfs · Dec 30, 2018

leng jai said:
All the RDR 2 discussion over the 5 days perfectly encapsulated how it went over on this forum. At some point basically all the cast complained about the laundry list of flaws/horseshit in the game and Brad was the guy quoting everyone saying none of it affected him.

Here's the laundry list:

1. Controls
2. Linear story missions

Jocund · Dec 30, 2018

kingocfs said:
Here's the laundry list:

1. Controls
2. Linear story missions

Such insurmountable shortcomings

ArjanN · Dec 30, 2018

The difference in a lot of the big games is still 30 vs 60 on PC a lot of the time, or lower resolution. It's probably also more noticeable in an action game like God of War compared to RDR2 with it's much slower pacing.

leng jai · Dec 30, 2018

kingocfs said:
Here's the laundry list:

1. Controls
2. Linear story missions

Controls + story missions is basically something you're dealing with the entire experience and those themselves contain a laundry list of issues within them.

3. Wanted system/AI aggression.
4. Arthur glitching around in a 2 metre radius 50% of the time you try to interact with something.
5. Poor menus/sub menus for inventory management.
6. Impossible to find collectibles.
7. A weapon loadout system that doesn't save properly.
8. Weather that lasts 20 seconds before it stops completely.
9. Day/night cycle too fast especially when you have time specific missions.
10. Lame fast travel.
11. Cores add nothing but annoyance and UI clutter.
12. Zero economy balance.
13. Mission replay system is garbage and makes trying to 3 star them a miserable experience.

I can go on. Also RDR 2 is my GOTY.

ArjanN said:
The difference in a lot of the big games is still 30 vs 60 on PC a lot of the time, or lower resolution. It's probably also more noticeable in an action game like God of War compared to RDR2 with it's much slower pacing.

If anything 30fps in RDR 2 is more noticeable to me because the controls are already laggy as hell and the added input latency from the frame rate exacerbates everything. A 60fps PC version will likely make a massive difference. The Witcher 3 was the same - the console version controls are horrendous but it's much more tolerable on PC.

Deleted member 22476 · Dec 30, 2018

That laundry must contain a lot of lycra because there's some serious stretching going on.

Deleted member 1041 · Dec 30, 2018

gogosox82 said:
Them picking fallout76 over telltale or rockstar treating their employees like shit is pretty shitty especially their reasoning of "it happens all the time". Just a shitty reason

It does happen every year though. Whatd be the point of "hottest mess" if every year "bad workplace environments" would win?

newmoneytrash · Dec 30, 2018

i downloaded Dx2 because it was on Soha's list and it's honestly so good

The best part about GotY is finding games you missed or overlooked

Joeku · Dec 30, 2018

BreezyLimbo said:
It does happen every year though. Whatd be the point of "hottest mess" if every year "bad workplace environments" would win?

That being the case they may as well excise it from the category and have a disclaimer before each mess every GotY season saying that it continues to be the hottest mess. But this Telltale stuff was particularly egregious. Nobody's crying of the loss of Capcom Vancouver because they made increasingly bad/unappealing games and just eventually shuttered and it was obvious. At least as Canadians their staff has a decent social safety net to fall back on and Capcom being a larger company has a war chest to cover severance. Telltale was it's own special mess.

Crushed · Dec 30, 2018

i got into the breach and after that first learning period (okay I will admit I was sick yesterday) i finally cleared the first island with a perfect island

probably should just stop now, i'm pretty sure i'm just a genius and nothing will go bad for me ever again in the whole game

Carolina Reaper · Dec 30, 2018

Choosing the best game is never a bad thing.

kiguel182 · Dec 30, 2018

Favorite moment of the discussions was Dan complaining about the down time in hitman just to say he loved it in the end lol

I also echo that they spent way to much time shitting or elevating RDR2 in the final lists. It was kinda a disservice to the other games.

Hitman almost being cut (it would be a bummer even if I've only mastered Miami so far) to almost getting in the top 5 was dumb fun lol

Them fighting each other can be fun but at the same time almost feels wrong at points. Like, why? Dunno, I don't really know what to think regarding this.

Superman2x7 · Dec 30, 2018

I'm finally listening to day 3 and their Red Dead 2 discussion. I'll put this in spoilers to be safe.

This is regarding the tuberculosis scene, or right right before that for me.

Literally right before that scene took place for me, I was riding to the city and saw a house near the swamps with a guy standing outside.

As I approached the house, the guy outside was welcoming to go in. I knew I should of shot him before I entered the house but I went in and the guy hit Arthur over the head and next thing I know hes waking up in the middle of the fields.

So I continue to the city and then that tuberculosis scene takes place. With the scene of being knocked out right before that happening I thought the guy poisoned me. But as the game goes on you find out the tuberculosis is a huge story element.

It was just super weird to have the scene of the guy knocking Arthur out and then waking up in the fields to then realize you have tuberculosis.

Arthur is such an amazing character, I didn't think I would enjoy a story more than God Of Wars this year but Arthur's personal story is soo good!!!!! Hes the best written character of the year to me, surprisingly most of the entire gang is very well written. Dutch is another superb character.

broncobuster · Dec 30, 2018

Knight613 said:
I would easily bet there are like 50 Tetris games at least half of them if not more are bad.

There are more than that but as far as "good" Tetris games? Maybe 10? And the top ones were arcade only.

Tetris Effect is arguably the best one, even stripping away the aesthetic.

Deleted member 11069 · Dec 30, 2018

Vinny is the hero for me. Him righting the ship on BEST STYLE was the best.

gogosox82 · Dec 30, 2018

This pubg discussion is killing me. It's almost like their admitting naming it GOTY was a bad idea.

freetacos · Dec 30, 2018

gogosox82 said:
This pubg discussion is killing me. It's almost like their admitting naming it GOTY was a bad idea.

This line of thinking is always weird to me. Similarly, people are also saying things like "they will regret giving Tetris Effect GOTY in the future".

Like...PUBG was their GOTY in 2017 (and rightfully so). That doesn't mean it has to "age well" or that they can't be disappointed what has happened since then. It's a collective decision about what their game of the year was in that year. No more, no less.

You can refer to this great Tumblr post for more info: http://jeff.zone/post/180259445191/do-regret-giving-pubg-game-of-the-year

Basileus777 · Dec 30, 2018

gogosox82 said:
This pubg discussion is killing me. It's almost like their admitting naming it GOTY was a bad idea.

Where do they talk about PUBG?

Deleted member 22476 · Dec 30, 2018

freetacos said:
This line of thinking is always weird to me. Similarly, people are also saying things like "they will regret giving Tetris Effect GOTY in the future".

Like...PUBG was their GOTY in 2017 (and rightfully so). That doesn't mean it has to "age well" or that they can't be disappointed what has happened since then. It's a collective decision about what their game of the year was in that year. No more, no less.

You can refer to this great Tumblr post for more info: http://jeff.zone/post/180259445191/do-regret-giving-pubg-game-of-the-year

What if it was wrong before it aged a second

TacomaSCDisaster · Dec 30, 2018

Basileus777 said:
Where do they talk about PUBG?

They briefly mention it in Best Ongoing Game, mostly how conspicuous it is in it's absence from that category.

freetacos · Dec 30, 2018

Stolen Sheep said:
What if it was wrong before it aged a second

Then you are a dirty sinner who will be judged accordingly by G*d

TacomaSCDisaster · Dec 30, 2018

Stolen Sheep said:
What if it was wrong before it aged a second

Kinda my stance, lol. I'm not bitter about it winning last year or anything as most of the staff clearly loved it and it dominated all of their content for that calender year. I just always thought it was a cool concept that didn't play well at all. Blackout is the first battle royale game I've liked.

ArjanN · Dec 30, 2018

freetacos said:
This line of thinking is always weird to me. Similarly, people are also saying things like "they will regret giving Tetris Effect GOTY in the future".

Like...PUBG was their GOTY in 2017 (and rightfully so). That doesn't mean it has to "age well" or that they can't be disappointed what has happened since then. It's a collective decision about what their game of the year was in that year. No more, no less.

You can refer to this great Tumblr post for more info: http://jeff.zone/post/180259445191/do-regret-giving-pubg-game-of-the-year

This. It's just people's lame attempts at spinning it as if their disagreement with certain picks were somehow made legitimate.

Crushed · Dec 30, 2018

The totally ironic thing about the PUBG discussion was that PUBG wasn't the first ongoing game to say "hey we're putting major content updates on hold to focus on bugs and technical issues and QOL for the next three months," complete with a name referencing how the game was busted and a thing in-game pointing to a fancy website showing a roadmap of issues to fix.

That previous game?

2018's Best Ongoing Game, Rainbow Six: Siege, with "Operation Health" in 2017

Grexeno · Dec 30, 2018

Crushed said:
The totally ironic thing about the PUBG discussion was that PUBG wasn't the first ongoing game to say "hey we're putting major content updates on hold to focus on bugs and technical issues and QOL for the next three months," complete with a name referencing how the game was busted and a thing in-game pointing to a fancy website showing a roadmap of issues to fix.

That previous game?

2018's Best Ongoing Game, Rainbow Six: Siege, with "Operation Health" in 2017

Congratulations to PUBG, 2019's Best Ongoing Game

Deleted member 1698 · Dec 30, 2018

freetacos said:
This line of thinking is always weird to me. Similarly, people are also saying things like "they will regret giving Tetris Effect GOTY in the future".

Like...PUBG was their GOTY in 2017 (and rightfully so). That doesn't mean it has to "age well" or that they can't be disappointed what has happened since then. It's a collective decision about what their game of the year was in that year. No more, no less.

You can refer to this great Tumblr post for more info: http://jeff.zone/post/180259445191/do-regret-giving-pubg-game-of-the-year

While that is all true, you would hope that some people regret the fuck out of giving dragon age inquisition game of the year.

MetalGear? · Dec 30, 2018

freetacos said:
This line of thinking is always weird to me. Similarly, people are also saying things like "they will regret giving Tetris Effect GOTY in the future".

Like...PUBG was their GOTY in 2017 (and rightfully so). That doesn't mean it has to "age well" or that they can't be disappointed what has happened since then. It's a collective decision about what their game of the year was in that year. No more, no less.

You can refer to this great Tumblr post for more info: http://jeff.zone/post/180259445191/do-regret-giving-pubg-game-of-the-year

Agreed, very weird to see people talk like GB should feel bad or ashamed about picking PUBG because of how things went for that game in the following year.

gogosox82 · Dec 30, 2018

freetacos said:
This line of thinking is always weird to me. Similarly, people are also saying things like "they will regret giving Tetris Effect GOTY in the future".

Like...PUBG was their GOTY in 2017 (and rightfully so). That doesn't mean it has to "age well" or that they can't be disappointed what has happened since then. It's a collective decision about what their game of the year was in that year. No more, no less.

You can refer to this great Tumblr post for more info: http://jeff.zone/post/180259445191/do-regret-giving-pubg-game-of-the-year

I have no issues with it winning last year. Its just the way they were talking about it, they sounded more disappointed than anything hence my comment. I'd have to go back and listen but I don't think they said anything positive about pubg while they said at least one positive thing about all the other games that were it the category. Granted, they then turned around and gave it to a game that also had a public roadmap but its just that they sound so down on the game like they were regretting giving it goty.

Deleted member 1698 · Dec 30, 2018

gogosox82 said:
I have no issues with it winning last year. Its just the way they were talking about it, they sounded more disappointed than anything hence my comment. I'd have to go back and listen but I don't think they said anything positive about pubg while they said at least one positive thing about all the other games that were it the category. Granted, they then turned around and gave it to a game that also had a public roadmap but its just that they sound so down on the game like they were regretting giving it goty.

Doesn't that instead show how strong it was in 2017? Sure it was a big let down, but you can only have a big let down if you are up very high to begin with.

billysea · Dec 30, 2018

gogosox82 said:
This pubg discussion is killing me. It's almost like their admitting naming it GOTY was a bad idea.

Just like some games do not stand the test of time, some reviews on games also don't stand the test of time. A lot of people said this would happen 12 months ago when Giantbomb gave PUBG game of the year.

However, while PUBG itself didn't turn out as big as we thought it would be, it did impacted the industry and set a path for future shooters to follow.

xmassteps · Dec 30, 2018

I feel the need to stand up for Brad regarding his comments about RDR2 like "it's insane it exists" and that it was a "financial risk".

Whilst he's being a tad hypberbolic there, you have to think about Rockstars core audience, which is people who like blowing stuff up in GTA.

RDR2 is categorically designed to not appeal to that core audience, basically in every way. To that extent, it's a risk. I assume that GTA Online addicts can't stand it.

Death Metalist · Dec 30, 2018

xmassteps said:
I feel the need to stand up for Brad regarding his comments about RDR2 like "it's insane it exists" and that it was a "financial risk".

Whilst he's being a tad hypberbolic there, you have to think about Rockstars core audience, which is people who like blowing stuff up in GTA.

RDR2 is categorically designed to not appeal to that core audience, basically in every way. To that extent, it's a risk. I assume that GTA Online addicts can't stand it.

Westerns in general have always been a niche genre. This only sold gangbusters because of the name Rockstar. That's about it.

Knight613 · Dec 30, 2018

gogosox82 said:
I have no issues with it winning last year. Its just the way they were talking about it, they sounded more disappointed than anything hence my comment. I'd have to go back and listen but I don't think they said anything positive about pubg while they said at least one positive thing about all the other games that were it the category. Granted, they then turned around and gave it to a game that also had a public roadmap but its just that they sound so down on the game like they were regretting giving it goty.

PUBG should have been on the list for either Hottest Mess or Most Disappointing to be honest. It's hard to believe they screwed up so much after all the hype it had last year.

gogosox82 · Dec 30, 2018

Toddhunter said:
Doesn't that instead show how strong it was in 2017? Sure it was a big let down, but you can only have a big let down if you are up very high to begin with.

I think it has more to do with other games have come out with battle royale mode and have just done it better so I think they were looking back on it with much more negativity than they probably would normally.

Joeku · Dec 30, 2018

Westerns have always been a "broad niche". RDR2 is nothing new in that regard.

gogosox82 · Dec 30, 2018

Knight613 said:
PUBG should have been on the list for either Hottest Mess or Most Disappointing to be honest. It's hard to believe they screwed up so much after all the hype it had last year.

It started to go down the wrong path when they started threatning to sue epic for "reasons" basically since they never actually said why they were suing them other than they made a battle royale mode and it became way more popular than pubg ever was.

Deleted member 9100 · Dec 30, 2018

Joeku said:
Westerns have always been a "broad niche". RDR2 is nothing new in that regard.

What do you mean by broad niche? That they've always sold well?

That's not true at all. Pretty much the only westerns that have sold well are RDR and RDR. Even the previous red dead game (before rockstar) didn't sell well and Gun certainly didn't sell well.

The Call of Juarez series hasn't sold well and neither has Desperados. Apart from that I can't think of any western games (let alone good selling ones).

RDR 1 and 2 are the exceptions and it's solely due to the Rockstar name.

If rockstar had tackled almost any other setting (a Sci Fi rockstar game would sell gangbusters), sales would've have been much better. They did a western as a labor of love. And I appreciate it. These games (RDR2 especially) are some of my favorite games ever and Arthur Morgan just might be my favorite video game character of all time.

gogosox82 · Dec 30, 2018

Not sure I understand why Brad thought "it wouldn't be close" in best looking game. Did he forget what GoW looks like? That game looks fucking amazing. If it does anything well, its look really fucking good. I get wanting red dead to win but saying "I didn't think it would be close" is crazy talk.

GMM · Dec 30, 2018

xmassteps said:
I feel the need to stand up for Brad regarding his comments about RDR2 like "it's insane it exists" and that it was a "financial risk".

Whilst he's being a tad hypberbolic there, you have to think about Rockstars core audience, which is people who like blowing stuff up in GTA.

RDR2 is categorically designed to not appeal to that core audience, basically in every way. To that extent, it's a risk. I assume that GTA Online addicts can't stand it.

I absolutely agree, when you look at what Red Dead Redemption 2 is doing compared to every other AAA game out there, it really is insane with how much money they put into making this slow paced thing.

And I do think that's one of the reasons why I love the game so much, it just does what it wants to do and not care about what everyone else is doing in regards to video games. It was really refreshing to me that the game is forcing the player to take things slow and punishes the player for not paying attention, it's the polar opposite of what pretty much all other big-budget games are currently doing.

Red Dead Redemption 2 to me as a production very much feels like "your dads GTA", it's a slow paced mature experience that has expectations of the player and it doesn't try to hold your hands or reward you at every turn. The reward in Red Dead isn't the chaos of blowing up everything or outrunning the army, the reward is the things you notice when exploring and the details many will miss.

Joeku · Dec 30, 2018

TAH3145 said:
What do you mean by broad niche? That they've always sold well?

That's not true at all. Pretty much the only westerns that have sold well are RDR and RDR. Even the previous red dead game (before rockstar) didn't sell well and Gun certainly didn't sell well.

The Call of Juarez series hasn't sold well and neither has Desperados. Apart from that I can't think of any western games (let alone good selling ones).

RDR 1 and 2 are the exceptions and it's solely due to the Rockstar name.

If rockstar had tackled almost any other setting (a Sci Fi rockstar game would sell gangbusters), sales would've have been much better. They did a western as a labor of love. And I appreciate it. These games (RDR2 especially) are some of my favorite games ever and Arthur Morgan just might be my favorite video game character of all time.

Yo, Call of Juarez Gunslinger is one of the best games of the last generation. It's fucking good and its duel mechanics shit on both Red Deads from a great height.

Death Metalist · Dec 30, 2018

Joeku said:
Yo, Call of Juarez Gunslinger is one of the best games of the last generation. It's fucking good and its duel mechanics shit on both Red Deads from a great height.

Bound in Blood is another one I recommend, though not as good as Gunslinger, it's still a great game.

klastical · Dec 30, 2018

GMM said:
I absolutely agree, when you look at what Red Dead Redemption 2 is doing compared to every other AAA game out there, it really is insane with how much money they put into making this slow paced thing.

And I do think that's one of the reasons why I love the game so much, it just does what it wants to do and not care about what everyone else is doing in regards to video games. It was really refreshing to me that the game is forcing the player to take things slow and punishes the player for not paying attention, it's the polar opposite of what pretty much all other big-budget games are currently doing.

Red Dead Redemption 2 to me as a production very much feels like "your dads GTA", it's a slow paced mature experience that has expectations of the player and it doesn't try to hold your hands or reward you at every turn. The reward in Red Dead isn't the chaos of blowing up everything or outrunning the army, the reward is the things you notice when exploring and the details many will miss.

Except that red dead holds your hand hard durring missions. If you dont do exactally what the game wants you instantly fail. Its missions are incredibly linear for an open world game. I would also say that the game does a bad job of leading you along. Vinney is right that the game is a bad open world in that it doesnt allow you do to everything out of the gate. I shouldn't have to play for 20 hours until I'm out of the tutorial that is the first 2 chapters.

Nephrahim · Dec 30, 2018

Uh, what are you locked from doing in Chapter 2? It's been a while so maybe I'm forgetting, but the game seemed pretty open already.

gogosox82 · Dec 30, 2018

Joeku said:
Yo, Call of Juarez Gunslinger is one of the best games of the last generation. It's fucking good and its duel mechanics shit on both Red Deads from a great height.

Truth. Bound in Blood is quite good as well.

Death Metalist · Dec 30, 2018

Nephrahim said:
Uh, what are you locked from doing in Chapter 2? It's been a while so maybe I'm forgetting, but the game seemed pretty open already.

The story missions for the most part revolve around some of the mechanics and stuff you could do in the game as the camp sets up in a new place after chapter 1(which makes sense). The biggest thing that is locked behind the first couple of missions is the fencer.

Deleted member 9100 · Dec 31, 2018

Joeku said:
Yo, Call of Juarez Gunslinger is one of the best games of the last generation. It's fucking good and its duel mechanics shit on both Red Deads from a great height.

I enjoyed it and thought it was a great game. I don't think it's better than both red dead games since I believe they are some of the best games ever, but I still think it's amazing game.

However, I was responding to a poster saying western games aren't niche and have a huge audience.

All of the call of Juarez games and pretty much any western game not named Red Dead Redemption has had mediocre or terrible sales.

Western games are very niche and if Rockstar had gone with chosen to make non western games instead of the Red Dead games, they would have had much better sales.

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