GI.biz : Who saved Rare? (Interview with Rare)

JINX · Jan 30, 2020

Link to the full article to read through:

Who saved Rare?

Eight years ago, Eurogamer printed the article 'Who killed Rare?'It was a sad read for fans of the studio. It came at a…

www.gamesindustry.biz

Eight years ago, Eurogamer printed the article 'Who killed Rare?'

The Culture:

"I never felt like we went away, but I can understand why we could have been perceived as that," says Louise O'Connor, who has spent 20 years at Rare and is now executive producer on its next game, Everwild.

"I don't know if we were having fun making things. The big thing about Rare is we have always challenged ourselves to do things that are really hard. I think we got to the point where we just weren't loving it the way that we could. It wasn't because we fell out of love with Rare, but perhaps we had fallen out of love with how we were approaching some of our development.

"I think we had stopped worrying about culture, actually. We were so worried about making a thing and challenging ourselves technically, that we paused a little bit with worrying about people and culture. Totally by accident. Then Craig [Duncan, Studio Head] came in, and the priority was about how do we change the culture? How do we make people fall in love with development again? It's a journey that you have to go on over a couple of years."

"It hurts to read stuff like that. I remember my message to the team was not to take any notice of people who don't know our studio. That was probably a bit defensive. Now, we are very overt with who we are and what we do... I don't think Rare had that then. We are in a different place.

"I felt back then I needed to defend ourselves, and say that Rare is definitely not dead and has plans for the future... by that's really just talk. We've actually gone and proven that now."

Sea of Thieves:

Eight years on, and the narrative around Rare has changed. Sea of Thieves has just passed ten million players, and enjoyed its most successful month since launch during December 2019. It has two teams working on projects for the first time in years, the studio size has expanded and the fans have come back -- there's even an unofficial Sea of Thieves festival this summer.

Rare of Old:

"We made games very differently back then," says O'Connor. "I remember my time in the Conker barn. It was just the Conker team and we weren't really with anyone else. It meant I got very close with that team, and we still call each other the Conker team. But what's different now, is we know everybody. We can wander around all of the barns.

"We had this amazing all-hands meeting last Friday. That's when I really noticed how much Rare has changed. A couple of us did a little talk about what we're working on, and the support we got was incredible. It was genuinely caring. Joe [Neate, Sea of Thieves executive producer] is super excited about what we're doing with Everwild, and we are super excited about what they are doing.

"That's the biggest difference. Back in the day, it was quite competitive. We wanted to beat the rest. It's not like that anymore."

The Rare of Today:

During our visit to Rare, Duncan was eager to show us the firm's new mantra on the wall of its boardroom. One that opens with: "Rare create the kind of games the world doesn't have".

All of the people we spoke to at Rare, either intentionally or accidentally, referred to the studio as being about 'new IP'. And to a certain generation of Rare fan, that will be disappointing to hear. To them, Rare is Joanna Dark, Banjo Kazooie and Conker.

Duncan agrees: "Rare has redefined their future and redefined genres and done different things throughout their history. People who have been with the studio through all these different iterations know fundamentally what makes Rare what it is, and they've been part of this journey. Louise, Jim [Horth], Gregg [Mayles], Paul [Machacek]... they've been as much a part of the Rare transformation as those who are relatively new."

Rare's Classic IP & Banjo/Sakurai:

And when it comes to its classic brands, Rare insists it hasn't abandoned them. Which brings us onto a different part of Rare, the part that doesn't make games and doesn't get a whole lot of media attention. The part of the studio that worked with Nintendo in bringing Banjo and Kazooie into Super Smash Bros.

"We had an initial kick off call with Sakurai-san and some of his team. There was myself, Gregg Mayles... who is the father of Banjo, even though he hates it when we call him that. Andrew Wensley, who runs our business team. And a chap called Paul Cunningham, who runs our partnerships. Those people had a conversation, [Nintendo] talked through what their approach would be, and then that process started.

"And then a year goes by of sharing animatics and ideas and character concepts. It was a back-and-forth. We ended up with something that was really great. But the execution came from the Smash team."

Prodger says: "Our legacy is part of who we are. It is important for us to have that role in those processes. We have people that worked on Banjo, and even people who worked on the original Battletoads. We have that history and knowledge so that we think we can make those experiences better and more authentic. These brands are ours and we do care."

Rare's Future:

"We're now 200 people and we've been growing pretty consistently for five years, but we don't want to become this 500-person mega monolithic thing," Duncan says. "You erode culture when you do that. I think that's inevitable."

This is the real reason Rare wanted to invite us into the studio. Whereas we were keen to hear all about Sea of Thieves, Everwild and Battletoads, they wanted to talk about how they've changed the studio's culture. They wanted to tell us about their mental health team, their belief in inclusivity, their diversitiy initiatives, internal spirit champions, sustainability, special lunches, football nights, fitness groups, and so on. All of which has enabled the company to come together and give them the sense of freedom they need to make, as O'Connor puts it, "some really cool shit".

"Honestly, in 20 years, this is the best, best, best time I have ever had in this studio." O'Connor concludes. "I don't think Sea of Thieves would have existed without the change in culture that we've brought in. It's just feeling believed in and trusted and confident to do something really brave. I don't think we've had that before.

"It has allowed us to be creative, and that is the biggest change for me. It is the most creative I've ever felt. And I'm a bloody producer."

Great interview, GI.biz/Christopher Dring does keep up with Rare/Sea of Thieves quite often with these great interviews. The article further goes into the business management, merchandising, community, Battletoads, opening up Rare to the world and how Sea of Thieves development has changed to support a more sustainable way to work for the team.

Shard Shinjuku · Jan 30, 2020

I will contend til the day I die that Kinect Sports saved Rare by virtue of selling 4 million copies at a time when Rare was coming off a series of sales disappointments.

Betty · Jan 30, 2020

Old Rare died for sure.

New Rare is finding it's own success also though.

JINX · Jan 30, 2020

Shard Shinjuku said:
I will contend til the day I die that Kinect Sports saved Rare by virtue of selling 4 million copies at a time when Rare was coming off a series of sales disappointments.

I don't know about "save", Viva Pinata did okay. But it definitely allowed Rare to grow a lot of its success, well before the Xbox One mess left the sequel flailing (leading to large lay offs.)

Theorry · Jan 30, 2020

Great interview. Alot of insights.

elenarie · Jan 30, 2020

Great stuff, thanks for sharing!

Bjones · Jan 30, 2020

Cool, to me rares golden era was definitely on the nes. I can instantly think of many great nes games from rare, wizards and warriors, iron sword waw2, cobra triangle, battle toads, rc pro am.

VinFTW · Jan 30, 2020

Wow, this is a really good article. So many insights and history.

Judge · Jan 30, 2020

Really good interview with a lot of nice tidbits on Battletoads collaboration, overall culture, use of old IP.

Also reconfirming that they are focused on NEW IP going forward (but are open to partnerships on old IP like with Battletoads)

They seem to be heading in the right direction!

Dyashen · Jan 30, 2020

Pretty good article!

Sea of Thieves continues to be my favourite multiplayer experience of the generation. Really looking forward to Everwild and other new stuff in the next-generation. :D

Zool · Jan 30, 2020

People need to accept that a studio can be fine or better without the burden of known IP. Rare proves that.

Remeran · Jan 30, 2020

I hope they partner with another studio to do a Banjo Remake. That would be pretty fun to look at.

Theorry · Jan 30, 2020

Damn

"We made games very differently back then," says O'Connor. "I remember my time in the Conker barn. It was just the Conker team and we weren't really with anyone else. It meant I got very close with that team, and we still call each other the Conker team. But what's different now, is we know everybody. We can wander around all of the barns.

RF Switch · Jan 30, 2020

Sea of Thieves is the most Rare/Nintendo game they have ever made imo. The game is begging to be put on Switch

christocolus · Jan 30, 2020

Interesting stuff. so happy for Rare and also excited about their future.

Theorry said:
Damn

Yeah, that got to me too.

Nuclear Muffin · Jan 30, 2020

For better or worse. Today's Rare is not the Rare we knew from the 90s; or even the 2000s. It's an entierly new studio.

Personally? I think today's Rare is a much better studio than it was in the 2000s, post aquisition. There's no point in trying to chase its past anymore; let it just be what it is.

The Rare of old has scattered to the winds. Even Playtonic (which is the closest thing we have now), is just a mere fraction of the old Rare we knew and loved.

Pancakes R Us · Jan 30, 2020

Dear Nintendo. Please hit these guys up for Donkey Kong Racing Returns from the Dead.

daTRUballin · Jan 31, 2020

Very interesting article! Shame that this thread hasn't gotten more attention.

Even though I'm excited to see more of Everwild and any other future projects, I'm still upset about them seemingly being exclusively focused on new IP, as this article seems to reconfirm. Sigh.........The fact that Rare employs lots of fans of their classic work and they refuse to make a Banjo Threeie or another legit attempt at Conker is kind of mindboggling, but I can understand why they might be more excited about trying new things.

JINX said:
I don't know about "save", Viva Pinata did okay. But it definitely allowed Rare to grow a lot of its success, well before the Xbox One mess left the sequel flailing (leading to large lay offs.)

If Kinect Sports had failed, I can't imagine Rare would've been around for much longer. I think MS probably would've lost their patience with the studio. Kinect Sports at least proved to MS that Rare can still release a hit.

I don't know if they would've actually closed down. Maybe MS would've halted game development and turned them into an Avatar studio or something.

Nuclear Muffin said:
Personally? I think today's Rare is a much better studio than it was in the 2000s, post aquisition.

Is it really? 2003-2008 Rare at least had a more frequent output of games. With a nice mixture of both new and old IP to boot. Even if the old IP entries weren't always well received (Perfect Dark Zero, Nuts & Bolts, Conker Xbox remake).

These days, it takes them about 3-4 years to release a single game and they're exclusively focused on new IP (which could be a good or bad thing, depending on how you look at it). I guess you could argue their current logo is way better than the logo they had during the early MS years at least lol.

Either way, it's definitely an interesting comparison to make.

TheDutchSlayer · Jan 31, 2020

Thanks for the link and the story quotes!

Raide · Jan 31, 2020

Pancakes R Us said:
Dear Nintendo. Please hit these guys up for Donkey Kong Racing Returns from the Dead.

A crossplay Switch and Xbox Diddy Kong Racing game would be delicious.

Bear and bird · Jan 31, 2020

It's fantastic to see Rare back on track again. While I'm one of those who would like to see Rare work on one of their old IPs (if only for a one-off), I'm also glad that they're building a new legacy with their new IPs.

I just hope Everwild is more friendly towards single player gamers.

DNgamers · Jan 31, 2020

My only problem with Sea of Thieves is that you can only play it with gamepass! And I don't have a Xbox. It's a really expensive game if you think about it. ;_;

roguesquirrel · Jan 31, 2020

idk what it is about Rare that it makes people say "This multidecade developer arent the same people anymore" like its somehow profound and not literally every developer

Bear and bird · Jan 31, 2020

DNgamers said:
My only problem with Sea of Thieves is that you can only play it with gamepass! And I don't have a Xbox. It's a really expensive game if you think about it. ;_;

Nah. You can buy it in the store too. And it has been on sale a number of times. Most recently a week or two ago IIRC.

It does require XBL Gold though, if that's what you meant.

roguesquirrel said:
idk what it is about Rare that it makes people say "This multidecade developer arent the same people anymore" like its somehow profound and not literally every developer

Exactly. You can't expect a studio to stay the same for 20+ years.

Naughty Dog has gone through some big changes too, for example. There's barely anyone left from the Crash Bandicoot era.

There's so much misinformation that has been spread about Rare's staff. I've even seen some people suggest that a lot of the ex-Rare devs went to Retro Studios. It's all about forming a narrative, I guess.

Defect · Jan 31, 2020

DNgamers said:
My only problem with Sea of Thieves is that you can only play it with gamepass! And I don't have a Xbox. It's a really expensive game if you think about it. ;_;

You can buy the game you know

xyla · Jan 31, 2020

DNgamers said:
My only problem with Sea of Thieves is that you can only play it with gamepass! And I don't have a Xbox. It's a really expensive game if you think about it. ;_;

You can also play on PC and it was on sale there regularly too.

roguesquirrel · Jan 31, 2020

DNgamers said:
My only problem with Sea of Thieves is that you can only play it with gamepass! And I don't have a Xbox. It's a really expensive game if you think about it. ;_;

idk who lied to you but you can own the game outright and you can play on pc

Deleted member 61002 · Jan 31, 2020

I'm glad to hear that they are taking the mental health of the developers seriously. It's something that needs to be done across the industry. Wish Rare all the best.

P.S. Just farm out a new Banjo game like with Battletoads and Killer Instinct.

OldGamer · Jan 31, 2020

I suppose it could have been worse. Their fate has been far kinder than than many other "fallen" studios.

But I don't think they have the solid reputation that they did in their heyday. That could happen in the future, but for now they are a more minor studio that they used to be. Hopefully that can change in the future.

Bear and bird · Jan 31, 2020

CrimsonCrescendo said:
I'm glad to hear that they are taking the mental health of the developers seriously. It's something that needs to be done across the industry. Wish Rare all the best.

However, "new golden age" this is not. We've seen one game from them in six years, Sea of Thieves, that had to take some time to find its sea legs (harr harr) after launch. Before that it was five years of Kinect games which, while I'm sure they sold well, had little to no impact on the industry because who the hell even talks about Kinect anymore? I am looking forward to Everwild, but the trailer released last E3 didn't really tell us much and it has no release date window either. So let's table the "new golden era" talks for a few years and see.

P.S. Just farm out a new Banjo game like with Battletoads and Killer Instinct.

This is besides the point, but Everwild was announced at X019.

I agree that it can't be declared a new golden age yet. Sea of Thieves was definitely a comeback for them, but it needs to last. It would be nice if they got into a rhythm of releasing a new game every 3 years.

Sea of Thieves: 2018
Everwild: 2021
Next new IP: 2024

etc.

It would be even better with a four year cycle for each team resulting in 2 year gaps between releases, but one step at a time. I doubt Everwild is coming this year.

daTRUballin · Jan 31, 2020

roguesquirrel said:
idk what it is about Rare that it makes people say "This multidecade developer arent the same people anymore" like its somehow profound and not literally every developer

Leflus said:
Exactly. You can't expect a studio to stay the same for 20+ years.

Naughty Dog has gone through some big changes too, for example. There's barely anyone left from the Crash Bandicoot era.

There's so much misinformation that has been spread about Rare's staff. I've even seen some people suggest that a lot of the ex-Rare devs went to Retro Studios. It's all about forming a narrative, I guess.

I personally can't wait for 20 years from now when the generation of kids that are growing up with Sea of Thieves will be there to remind us of how Rare is dead and isn't the same without Craig Duncan, Mike Chapman, Joe Neate, Jon McFarlane, Adam Park, etc. etc.!

Bear and bird · Jan 31, 2020

daTRUballin said:
I personally can't wait for 20 years from now when the generation of kids that are growing up with Sea of Thieves will be there to remind us of how Rare is dead and isn't the same without Craig Duncan, Mike Chapman, Joe Neate, Jon McFarlane, Adam Park, etc. etc.!

It's been really cool to see all these new people become Rare veterans in their own right. Craig Duncan has been there for 9 years now. That's a long-ass time in the video game industry. Mike Chapman recently became the creative director on Sea of Thieves too. What this means for Gregg Mayles' involvement in SoT is unknown, but hopefully it means that he's busy working on his next new IP.

Or a Banjo-Kazooie project in partnership with an external studio.

Elliott · Jan 31, 2020

roguesquirrel said:
idk what it is about Rare that it makes people say "This multidecade developer arent the same people anymore" like its somehow profound and not literally every developer

You don't understand, old Rare is dadder than Halo.

crazillo · Jan 31, 2020

Very good article and it's good some of the myths around Rare got cleared up here, too.

dodmaster · Jan 31, 2020

Interesting that they let Battletoads go because they trusted the studio from previous project collaborations. Perhaps this might open up opportunities within XGS for more collaborations on old IP.

daTRUballin · Jan 31, 2020

Leflus said:
It's been really cool to see all these new people become Rare veterans in their own right. Craig Duncan has been there for 9 years now. That's a long-ass time in the video game industry. Mike Chapman recently became the creative director on Sea of Thieves too. What this means for Gregg Mayles' involvement in SoT is unknown, but hopefully it means that he's busy working on his next new IP.

Or a Banjo-Kazooie project in partnership with an external studio.

No clue what Gregg Mayles could be up to, but this was recently posted on the XboxEra Discord:

Seems like this could be the beginnings of a third project? Gregg Mayles isn't mentioned anywhere though.....

OneBadMutha · Jan 31, 2020

Companies change when the people do. People define the culture. It's nice to hear that the studio is being led by someone who values people and is passionate right now. I questioned whether that was the case during the Kinect Sports days. Rares biggest challenges are expectations. I think the sooner that people accept the studio for what it wants to be, the better. Making games on a AAA or high AA budget that takes chances and doesnt try to capitalize on the trends should be applauded.

Complicated · Jan 31, 2020

So wholesome. I'm glad they found a way to move forward and reshape and renew the things that were great about Rare.

Bear and bird · Feb 1, 2020

daTRUballin said:
No clue what Gregg Mayles could be up to, but this was recently posted on the XboxEra Discord:

Seems like this could be the beginnings of a third project? Gregg Mayles isn't mentioned anywhere though.....

Could be! To be fair, Marlow could also be working on a big new feature for Sea of Thieves. ...but it's an interesting observation for sure.

Maybe they're not mentioning Gregg Mayles because they know it's going to be a big news story? While industry veterans in their own right, Louise O'Connor and Simon Woodroffe don't have quite the same star power as Gregg Mayles. Announcing/confirming a new Mayles-helmed project now could risk drawing attention away from Everwild.

plateaux · Feb 1, 2020

roguesquirrel said:
idk what it is about Rare that it makes people say "This multidecade developer arent the same people anymore" like its somehow profound and not literally every developer

think about The Rolling Stones, 68-74. You have this incredible run of new flawless output. And then after that just coasting on last success, dissolving of talent, unable to ever reach those heights again (by all appearances).

I mean, what is Rares last great game and why is it from the 90s?

Bear and bird · Feb 1, 2020

plateaux said:
think about The Rolling Stones, 68-74. You have this incredible run of new flawless output. And then after that just coasting on last success, dissolving of talent, unable to ever reach those heights again (by all appearances).

I mean, what is Rares last great game and why is it from the 90s?

A lot of people would say Sea of Thieves.

Aside from SoT; Perfect Dark, CBFD, Viva Pinata and N&B would also get a bunch of mentions in the post-90s category.

daTRUballin · Feb 1, 2020

Leflus said:
Could be! To be fair, Marlow could also be working on a big new feature for Sea of Thieves. ...but it's an interesting observation for sure.

Maybe they're not mentioning Gregg Mayles because they know it's going to be a big news story? While industry veterans in their own right, Louise O'Connor and Simon Woodroffe don't have quite the same star power as Gregg Mayles. Announcing/confirming a new Mayles-helmed project now could risk drawing attention away from Everwild.

To be fair, it's not like Gregg Mayles is super SUPER well known or anything. His name isn't on the level of Miyamoto or Kojima in terms of recognition (probably thanks in no small part to Rare's secrecy during their golden age). In a world where lots of misinformation is spread about Rare and where nobody has a clue who does or doesn't work at Rare, it's only really Rare fans or people that follow Rare in general that would know who he is. You're probably right that it might draw some attention away from Everwild, but it's not like Mayles working on a new project automatically means Banjo Threeie anymore. Rare doesn't seem interested in their legacy IPs these days and most people seem to have realized that by now.

There's a secret part of me that hopes Chris Marlow's involvement in whatever this is could mean something Conker related, but I seriously doubt it lol. I think Louise O'Connor would also need to be involved for that to make sense.........

Bear and bird · Feb 1, 2020

daTRUballin said:
To be fair, it's not like Gregg Mayles is super SUPER well known or anything. His name isn't on the level of Miyamoto or Kojima in terms of recognition (probably due in no small part to Rare's secrecy during their golden age). In a world where lots of misinformation is spread about Rare and where nobody has a clue who does or doesn't work at Rare, it's only really Rare fans or people that follow Rare in general that would know who he is. You're probably right that it might draw some attention away from Everwild, but it's not like Mayles working on a new project automatically means Banjo Threeie anymore. Rare doesn't seem interested in their legacy IPs these days.

The confirmation of Mayles' next project became a news story back in 2015: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/rare-will-reveal-new-project-at-e3-dev-says-report/1100-6427059/

Although that was at a time when a new non-kinect game from Rare was big news.

daTRUballin said:
There's a secret part of me that hopes Chris Marlow's involvement in whatever this is could mean something Conker related, but I seriously doubt it lol. I think Louise O'Connor would also need to be involved for that to make sense.........

Robin Beanland too.

daTRUballin · Feb 1, 2020

Leflus said:
The confirmation of Mayles' next project became a news story back in 2015: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/rare-will-reveal-new-project-at-e3-dev-says-report/1100-6427059/

Although that was at a time when a new non-kinect game from Rare was big news.

Not only that, but don't forget that was also during a time when we were getting Banjo teases shoved down our throats left and right. Even from people at Rare oddly enough. Remember Beanland's broken banjo Vine? Remember Kampfheld promising us that we would see Banjo at E3 2015? Good times!

Everybody thought Mayles' project would be Banjo and it turned out to be an online pirate adventure game. Nowadays, I'm not sure people would immediately expect Banjo out of Mayles.

Leflus said:
Robin Beanland too.

Well, Beanland would kinda have to be involved with the project considering he's the only composer Rare has internally anyway. :p

Pryme · Feb 1, 2020

Shard Shinjuku said:
I will contend til the day I die that Kinect Sports saved Rare by virtue of selling 4 million copies at a time when Rare was coming off a series of sales disappointments.

when you check Amazon user reviews - verified purchases - and see how many families and general consumers love the Kinect sports series on the Xbox360, you'll see how misguided the folks who carp on and on about Rare and Kinect are.

roguesquirrel · Feb 1, 2020

plateaux said:
think about The Rolling Stones, 68-74. You have this incredible run of new flawless output. And then after that just coasting on last success, dissolving of talent, unable to ever reach those heights again (by all appearances).

I mean, what is Rares last great game and why is it from the 90s?

Im sorry for your arrested development.

HibbySloth · Feb 1, 2020

Great article! Though, I found it strange that they only brought up Sea of Theives when talking about DesignsByHumans. It's mostly filled up with designs from Banjo and classic Rare IP.

Camjo-Z · Feb 1, 2020

I'm glad that Rare has revitalized themselves and they're having fun making new IP after years of being endlessly mocked, but for the love of Gobi, give the Banjo IP to somebody else then. I cannot fathom why what should be one of Microsoft's flagship series is forever stuck at a studio where clearly no one with any power wants to do anything with it. Every single interview you get the same lip service about how they love Banjo soooo much, but in 12 years they'd have done absolutely nothing if not for Nintendo's brief intervention.

It's a bit ironic that the article focuses on how much Rare has changed and how they want to move past the "Rare is dead" mindset, because despite their best efforts they'll never be able to do that until they let go of all the baggage. They literally say in the article that "People were very excited when we announced Everwild. We didn't see any: 'Oh it's not Banjo 3'", but when I check out the official announcement on Twitter and scroll past the top comments from people I follow, here are the first replies I see.

Just farm it out to Playtonic and be done with it already. Until that happens, you'll never hear the end of it.

Yearsoflurking · Feb 1, 2020

Even though most already knew it's nice to see rare confirm that they have multiple teams working on multiple projects

jett · Feb 1, 2020

Seems Rare is in a good place now. It's nice to see.

GI.biz : Who saved Rare? (Interview with Rare)

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