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What was your choice at the end of the game?

  • Spare

    Votes: 279 57.5%
  • Kill

    Votes: 206 42.5%

  • Total voters
    485

Mechaplum

Enlightened
Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,796
JP
Spared the old man. It was clear that Jin's ties to the code has eroded beyond repair anyway and it's all about being utilitarian from then on. I mean he sacrificed everything to be free so why stop then.

Or maybe I just couldn't do it.

Love this game.

We need a second game or a dlc starring Tomoe and/or Jin.
 

Bushido

Senior Game Designer
Verified
Feb 6, 2018
1,849
Very surprised the poll is leaning towards "Spare". Killing Shimura clearly felt like the right thing to do, because to me this scene is not about Jin and how much he strayed from the path of honor, but all about Shimura and respecting him and his loyalty to the samurai code. Sparing him would have felt like a completely inappropriate humiliation and I think there's a strong difference between Jin's decision to use un-samurai tactics to save his people and (not) honoring your uncle's principles by (not) granting him his wish to die an honorable death and make him live a life with disappointment and shame.
 

Mechaplum

Enlightened
Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,796
JP
Very surprised the poll is leaning towards "Spare". Killing Shimura clearly felt like the right thing to do, because to me this scene is not about Jin and how much he strayed from the path of honor, but all about Shimura and respecting him and his loyalty to the samurai code. Sparing him would have felt like a completely inappropriate humiliation and I think there's a strong difference between Jin's decision to use un-samurai tactics to save his people and (not) honoring your uncle's principles by (not) granting him his wish to die an honorable death and make him live a life with disappointment and shame.

It was basically my "get out of your old ways, old man" moment.

Seriously though if he had instead requested that Jin be his second as he commits suicide by harakiri there and then I would have agreed to it. If he felt that much shame he can always choose that path.

Edit: Being his second meant that Jin will behead him as Shimura does the deed.
 

crimsonECHIDNA

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,346
Florida
I killed Shimura.
He failed to kill Jin twice, Shogun would have killed him or humiliate his clan sooner or later. I decided to give him a honorable end, even if it was painful.

That's exactly how I see it. Killing Shimura would be moreso an act of mercy on Jin's part given that the consequences for Shimura's failure would be far worse.

That and I think thematically Jin becoming a kinslayer would have been the "final line" he crossed in the eyes of the Samurai, even though it was their own broken system that put him in that situation in the first place.
 

MetalMagus

Avenger
Oct 16, 2018
1,645
Maine
The ending is a perfect setup for sequel. This is basically the origin story of The Ghost, lots of potential way the story can go. Like the new samurai coming to Tsushima is a jerk and Jin had to fight them. Or Mongol 2nd invasion, or something happened to Tsushima that Jin had to escape to mainland and start the story from there etc.

I hope we can go to mainland in the sequel, not just for new environment to play with, but also meeting Tomoe again.

I hope they make the kill ending non-canon, I think it would be fascinating to have Shimura (who is also a good character) return for a sequel in some capacity. I feel the kill ending doesn't match with the trauma Jin felt as a child not being able to save his father since he is now killing his father by his own hand. I doubt that a sequel would be based around Tsushima and instead have new characters, clans, and conflicts, and most likely Shimura will be written out of the game, but I think it could be an interesting set up for future encounters, especially if Jin were to return to Tsushima later in the game.

What if we get a dlc where Jin as a Ghost becomes the first Ninja. He's literally a ninja anyway.

Then his followers becomes ninjas too to defeat the mongols.

I doubt that a full sequel would just stay on Tsushima, so Jin's either going to Korea / Mongolia or the main island of Japan. Considering that he's essentially the first ninja, I could see his story taking him to Japan where he'd establish the first ninja clan.
 

CrocodileGrin

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,154
Spared him. One, he's family. No matter how stupid the uncle is with his honor and samurai code, killing him seemed wrong. Secondly, not killing him defies the code the uncle lives by, showing Jin plays by his own rules. So out of love, spite and hell, even purposeful disrespect, I couldn't kill the guy.
 

Eggiem

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,774
Bummer that you could see the twist coming from a mile away. Was anybody really shocked by this?
 

Dhuggs_

Member
Oct 27, 2017
632
New Jersey
I spared him, I wrestled with both actions, but man that scene once he spares him and Shimura tells him he'll be hunted forever and goes, "I know" and puts the mask on? I fucking loved it
 

Demon-69

Member
Oct 15, 2018
1,670
Somewhere
I killed Lord Shimura because if I didn't he would be shamed maybe executed or worse and it seemed like the right thing to do is to respect his last wish of dying an honorable death.
 

VinFTW

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,470
Spared him. Jin is no slave to honor
This is the only true, canon ending.

Why spend an entire game living and believing that honor is the bane of Tsushimas survival only to... respect honor in the end?

After you make that decision you know immediately it was the right choice.

Also, I want to say, I'm not a very emotional man, and I'm not sure I'm the only one... but i got irrational upset, sad and depressed after the final fight. When Jin and his uncle are writing their final Haiku, and Jins Uncle starts shedding tears down his cheek with the look of deep sadness. I couldn't handle it.

What a game.
 

Res

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,606
Finished the game in lethal, spared Shimura. Great game, I only completed collectibles that involved stat increases, like the hot springs and bamboo.

Does anyone else wish Tomoe was a part of the main cast? I love how cunning she was, and one step above everyone else. More interactions with her would have been neat. I was also hoping Jin and Yuna would become a thing. Kinda disappointed on that front
 
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Binhoker

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
267
The uncle sucked and the samurai were illegitimate rulers over a dog shit caste system, so fuck him frankly.
 

Modest_Modsoul

Living the Dreams
Member
Oct 29, 2017
23,548
Spare him.

The Ghost would be hunted for the rest of his days, but I don't care.

I have no honour, but I won't kill my family.
 

Arrrammis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,142
I spared him.

Not for a personal stake for either Jin or Lord Shimura, but more how I thought about Jin doing whatever he had to for the people of Tsushima. Lord Shimura is the last remaining lord of Tsushima, has the respect and backing of the government on the mainland, has spent his whole life living in and serving Tsushima, and is well respected by the people. If he dies, then suddenly there is nobody in charge, except some stranger that the Shogun appoints as Jito. While Lord Shimura is alive, people still have a known honorable samurai lord to look up to and trust, and he can provide stability. Without him, the only known figure the people have left to follow is the ghost, and there are no rules or system there, only poison, assassination, and intimidation. It would just be anarchy until enough soldiers come from the mainland to squash the populace back into the same system. The game spends a lot of time pointing out the flaws in samurai rule, rightly so, but without Lord Shimura there will just be another samurai lord coming to Tsushima to rule, who has not lived through the mongol invasion, and would likely be much more brutal towards people speaking of the ghost than Lord Shimura is.


Anyways, went on to get the platinum, and am debating if I should track down all the collectibles to be able to say I completed it (and catch some of those hidden events as I follow the wind around the island again), or if I should start again on lethal (after beating it on hard). Ah well, that's for later :)
 

Traxus

Spirit Tamer
Member
Jan 2, 2018
5,188
Man, fuck Shimura. Pompous old fool. What a terrible fucking dad. It's all about his own desire to have an heir. What did he ever do for Jin? Not once does he ever go to bat for his son with the Shogun. He basically handed him over to the police for disobeying his orders, then lines up to be the executioner and has the gall to shed tears over it. From the moment he started giving Jin shit about his lack of honor I was ready to cut ties. I spared his dumb ass because at that point it didn't even feel like he was worth bloodying Jin's blade over.

And maybe it's a case of ludonarrative-dissonance, but I wanted Jin to just laugh in Shimura's face before the final battle. Honestly, the Ghost has raised an army, singlehandedly defeated dozens of the most legendary warriors on the island, slaughtered hundreds of Mongels including the Khan himself, and is almost entirely responsible for liberating the island. How presumptuous must Shimura be to think he can face Jin in single combat? The Shogun's order was basically a death sentence but Shimura never lets on that he comprehends this or shows any sort of humility. Fuck this old crotchety asshole.

Whew. Okay, now I gotta get back to cleaning up these sidequests.
 
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whassupbun

Member
Oct 28, 2017
398
Ahhh... More like The Punisher. Jin kills ALOT of people. But other than that, yeah I see what you are saying. Too bad they got rid of his estate. That would of been totally some Batman/Bruce Wayne shit.
I think he was referring to the ending of Christopher Nolan's The Dark Knight, you know the quote:
Because we have to chase him. Because he's the hero Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now, so we'll hunt him. Because he can take it, because he's not a hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector, a Dark Knight.

Like how Shimura tells Jin he'll be hunted forever and Jin just goes "I know" and puts on the mask.

Unrelated, I spared him because I wanted the red Ghost suit. Now I regret it because I want the white suit, and I don't have a manual save before the ending.
 
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giallo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,222
Seoul
What's the deal with the mountain you need to climb in Act 3? Once I start climbing, I get cold, and start losing health. Jin keeps saying I need to find/build a fire, but I can't find one anywhere.
 

Traxus

Spirit Tamer
Member
Jan 2, 2018
5,188
What's the deal with the mountain you need to climb in Act 3? Once I start climbing, I get cold, and start losing health. Jin keeps saying I need to find/build a fire, but I can't find one anywhere.
Talk to the musician on the road just south of the mountain to start the fire Mythic quest.
 

Issen

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,816
This is the only true, canon ending.

Why spend an entire game living and believing that honor is the bane of Tsushimas survival only to... respect honor in the end?
Because it's not about Jin "respecting honor". It's about Jin, who loves his uncle, allowing him the choice of how he wants to go. Shimura is the one obsessed with honor to the point that he would actually rather die a warrior's death than live in shame. He would actually rather kill his freaking son than either face the consequences or live in dishonor like Jin does. Jin isn't "honor-bound" to kill Shimura: He can choose to grant him Shimura the death he wants because he might consider it a mercy granted to a loved one.

Given the way the game contextualizes it it's totally possible to view either choice as better than the other.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,496
North Carolina
Finished the game in lethal, spared Shimura. Great game, I only completed collectibles that involved stat increases, like the hot springs and bamboo.

Does anyone else wish Tomoe was a part of the main cast? I love how cunning she was, and one step above everyone else. More interactions with her would have been neat. I was also hoping Jin and Yuna would become a thing. Kinda disappointed on that front
I am glad that they didn't go this route. Rather refreshing to not have an overt love angle thrown in.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,053
Very surprised the poll is leaning towards "Spare". Killing Shimura clearly felt like the right thing to do, because to me this scene is not about Jin and how much he strayed from the path of honor, but all about Shimura and respecting him and his loyalty to the samurai code. Sparing him would have felt like a completely inappropriate humiliation and I think there's a strong difference between Jin's decision to use un-samurai tactics to save his people and (not) honoring your uncle's principles by (not) granting him his wish to die an honorable death and make him live a life with disappointment and shame.
100% agreed. Sparing him is a final act of disrespect in my eyes.

It's really interesting seeing the takes in this thread about sparing him and how they all relate to 'Jin, Jin, Jin' because for me, the act wasn't about Jin, his morality or what he wants, it was about Shimura.
 

TsuWave

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,978
I don't think Jin would ever kill his uncle. The "I have no honor, but I'll not kill my family" goes well with his transformation into Ghost
 

giallo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,222
Seoul
I'll give you a hint using a Haiku
This is the second verse
Cross the Bridge
there are multiple fire pits on the way up, follow the path and you can see them glowing, use them to warm yourself up.
Good way to tell if you are going the right way is if you see attack dogs.


Thanks.

I must have approached the mountain totally wrong as I didn't see a bridge, attack dogs or any glowing fire pits. I'll try again tonight.
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
I spared Shimura because I feel there's something to save there.

Regardless of the feeling of "insulting" him I feel like Jin is not bound by the honor code and I feel Shimura proved time and again that he was doing things because he was ordered to and when the chips were down (like when taking down the Khan) he'd still listen to him. In the hopes that we get a future game my desire was to rebuild that relationship, and the only people who know of the duel are Jin and Shimura.

If this was a fight against him in front of hundreds of Samurai I might have felt differently, but this was an intimate moment and going "Kill him for his honor" doesn't really feel like much to me. I (Jin) have gone out of my way to try and appeal to Shimura's love and his failures and he continues to doubt Jin, so doing him any favors didn't really seem like anything I'd want to do, especially if it meant killing a family member.

My gf was really emotional at this part too because the music and everything was really great and she was like "oh god are you going to kill him??" and even though she wasn't watching all the story she had been paying attention to my commentary on Shimura and how I (like Jin) was going to do what I could to save people but wouldn't be the monster they thought he was.

I feel personally killing him is saying the Ghost sees himself as above the samurai and killing a Samurai in that regard makes him much more in line with the mongols. I know people could argue that sparing him makes him seem like he's insulting the samurai by not adhering to his honor claims but I feel the entire point of the Ghost was to show that when the chips are down we have to do things to save our people. Sometimes those things are bad.

I actually love the moral dilemma happening in the game, even if a lot of it isn't optional and there's no real way (that I know of) to really lean into the Samurai code by purposefully foregoing the ghost weapons and focusing only on combat. In that way I just wanted to spare him to show that Jin won't kill his family and that the Ghost solely existed to liberate Tsushima from the Mongols. The mongols are gone, so now there is only Jin. -shrug-

I love talking about this though and I can see where people are coming from, but my own personal morals lead me to believe that I couldn't kill a family member just because HE said that HIS honor was staked on a deeply personal duel that no one else would know about, especially when the time came he trusted me and did the right thing. Just didn't sit right with me man.


Also, I want to say, I'm not a very emotional man, and I'm not sure I'm the only one... but i got irrational upset, sad and depressed after the final fight. When Jin and his uncle are writing their final Haiku, and Jins Uncle starts shedding tears down his cheek with the look of deep sadness. I couldn't handle it.

What a game.
My GF and I were losing it. The great facial acting and the EYES getting red and bloodshot almost (been a bit since I've seen it) you could tell had two men facing each other when they deeply didn't want to. That shit got us, and it was great.

I doubt that a full sequel would just stay on Tsushima, so Jin's either going to Korea / Mongolia or the main island of Japan. Considering that he's essentially the first ninja, I could see his story taking him to Japan where he'd establish the first ninja clan.
The idea of making a cool Ninja clan with Yuna on the mainland and helping people/saving people while also having to deal with staying one step ahead of the shogun is a scenario that practically writes itself to me. They could still keep the samurai imagery for standoffs and duels but they could also have some cool assasination missions halfway through when Jin is for some reason pushed to that point to help someone (maybe even Shimura >_> ).
 

Kupo Kupopo

Member
Jul 6, 2019
2,959
finished the game, & never did find out the answer to what was, for me, the biggest mystery of the game: why do the deer whistle? & how do the deer whistle?...
 

MetalMagus

Avenger
Oct 16, 2018
1,645
Maine
The idea of making a cool Ninja clan with Yuna on the mainland and helping people/saving people while also having to deal with staying one step ahead of the shogun is a scenario that practically writes itself to me. They could still keep the samurai imagery for standoffs and duels but they could also have some cool assasination missions halfway through when Jin is for some reason pushed to that point to help someone (maybe even Shimura >_> ).

  1. Explore the corruption of the Imperial Japanese system and how Jin is forced to expand his mission to fighting against the Shogunate for the downtrodden peasants of Japan.
  2. Recruit like minded outcasts and further develop Ghost skills and techniques, eventually allowing the player to go "full Tenchu"
  3. Turn the morality around on the player as Jin's methods continue to get more insidious and more of his followers become more extreme with their brutality and less indiscriminate with their killings.
  4. Has Jin turned become like the monsters he sought out to defeat? At what point do the ends no longer justify the means?
 

Res

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,606
I would absolutely love a sequel, and I hope SP is working on it. I've never played SP's other games like Infamous due to the setting, but in my eyes GoT is something else. Can you imagine the graphics on a ps5? It would be insane. I'm already impressed with what they did with foliage and draw distance in current gen. The leaves falling and moving on the ground are lovely as well

And as others have said, an obvious scenario for a sequel could involve Jin and Yuna establishing a ninja clan. The shogunate and mongols could both be enemies
 

crimsonECHIDNA

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,346
Florida
Just wrapped up the game and I opted to spare Shimura. TBH, I think Shimura is dead either way come a potential sequel, I just think that that is one line that Jin is not going to actually cross. Him losing his honor and no longer being a Samurai, I think it's fitting that he wouldn't honor his uncle's last request.
 

Rumenapp

Forza Photographer
Member
Nov 9, 2017
12,721
Why would spare be canon? Just because he's family?

Why would Jin live like an outcast in his own island when he helped save the place?

His uncle did not accept the new Jin even after freeing the place from the Mongols.

Great ending to a great game, the soundtrack in the final moments of the game and in the credits really shined.

What's the deal with the mountain you need to climb in Act 3? Once I start climbing, I get cold, and start losing health. Jin keeps saying I need to find/build a fire, but I can't find one anywhere.

Start the quest at the bottom before climbing the mountain. Just light up the camp fires as you climb up.
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
  1. Explore the corruption of the Imperial Japanese system and how Jin is forced to expand his mission to fighting against the Shogunate for the downtrodden peasants of Japan.
  2. Recruit like minded outcasts and further develop Ghost skills and techniques, eventually allowing the player to go "full Tenchu"
  3. Turn the morality around on the player as Jin's methods continue to get more insidious and more of his followers become more extreme with their brutality and less indiscriminate with their killings.
  4. Has Jin turned become like the monsters he sought out to defeat? At what point do the ends no longer justify the means?
I really like the idea of having Jin face a point of no return or a real dilemma with the people he's hiring/working with, to give credence to the Samurai and also show that neither method is without faults. His poison is now "known" and that alone changes warfare by a lot in this version of the world depicted in the game.

Having to kill some of your own followers because they're crossing the line or choosing not to could also be a valid choice after the ending we had with GoT1. There's so much I want to see happen with this game, as even though I'm "done" with it if they put in NG+ I'm happy to experience it again.

The only thing I hope they add the next time is:
1. More NPCs. Core 4-5 are good/great at times but they're supposed to singlehandedly carry the game and there's not enough variety to their stories imo
2. More cool restrictions to levels like the one where you have to not get seen, not kill guards and can only kill 3 npcs in a camp. That kind of stuff actually made me have to engage with the game world more as most of the time I was stealthy until I wasn't at which I resorted to chunking sticky bombs and kunai.
3. More mission in general like the destroy the shipyards. I can't believe the only example of it was the one from the damn demo they did forever ago. Really disappointing as I would have loved more like it with some other cool mechanics.
4. More interesting side quests. Without supernatural elements like Yokai or anything most of it just comes down to "bandits bad, kill them" and I'd like some more compelling side content. Things like being in the mainland might actually help with this because we can play more to politics and "city" living. Things like usurping political power and choosing who to back through nefarious means could really vary up the gameplay.
 

HououinKyouma

The Wise Ones
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,366
Stunningly beautiful ending. Predictable, sure, but so well crafted.

I gave him an "honorable death." So by the end, Jin was clearly smart enough to realize the samurai code was kind of a joke when treated with such reverence. But that's all Shimura has ever known - he's lived his entire life under this "code" and to not give him the death he so desires just feels like a slap in the face in my opinion. He's not changing and will have to live out the rest of his days in shame otherwise.

I also like thinking of this as killing off the past, basically. Jin, Clan Sakai, and Clan Shimura are gone - and now the Ghost wanders.
 
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Mechaplum

Enlightened
Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,796
JP
Agree that Tomoe is one of the highlights, despite how little screentime she had. Hope the next game focuses on her and Jin in Kyoto or something. Will really full use of the PS5's hardware.
 

Dante316

Member
Oct 25, 2017
947
Went with killing because it's what he wanted and I granted that wish...felt bad but it was right thing.
 
Aug 4, 2020
1,267
Just finished the story and chose to kill him. Didn't really want him to live in in shame despite everything. He was never going to change.

The ending duel was beautiful and epic.

Also the white ghost armor looks sick. I checked and you get a red one for sparing your uncle.
 

Doctor_Thomas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,649
Just finished it.

That's a HORRIBLE choice to present in a game that has very little in the way of player choice.

I opted to kill him because, for me, that's what makes the most sense. Jin turned his back on the code of honour, that doesn't mean he hated his uncle as a person. Shimura couldn't step away from his code of honour, but that doesn't mean he hated Jin as a person.

I feel that there's no way Jin would have allowed his uncle, who still heavily believed in their code, to be dishonoured in his defeat.
 

JED BARTLETT

Member
Oct 27, 2017
212
Belfast
I mean you had to kill him right?
He clearly would've killed himself if you spared him.
Hell of a choice to throw at you right at the end though.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,675
Finished this not too long ago and had the plat pop during the credits (love when that happens)

Overall i enjoyed my time with it. It definitely feels long in the tooth is some spots (fuck them fox dens) but it was a good experience once everything was said and done.

I wasn't sold on the story in the beginning. I actually didn't find it very compelling until near the end of act 2. While i understand that honor is a big thing amongst samurai culture, the first 2/3rds of the story just felt like Boomers vs. Millennials. Not even accounting the fact that it was so heavy handed, i really grated on me that so many people kept giving Jin shit about being dishonorable because he started stabbing people in the back. At the very least, allowances should be made considering that the entire island and all it's inhabitants would be eradicated if Jin didn't act accordingly.

However, when he get late into act 2 and get the poison darts is when the story got more interesting because once Jin finds out the Mongols are using his dishonorable tactics against his own people, now the morality of it because a lot more gray. Now the Shimura has more reason to hold Jin's feet to the fire in terms of his actions because now it's actually producing harmful outcomes for their people unlike Jin simply backstabbing fools.

I would have liked to see the story progress in a way where at the end of Act 1 Shimura is disappointed in Jin for not being honorable but reluctantly gives Jin his blessing to backstab understanding the bigger picture and what's at stake. At the end of Act 2, Shimura is furious with Jin when he realizes Jin's dishonorable actions with using poison has empowered the Mongols to hurt the people of Tsushima even more and he's hard on himself being that he begrudgingly gave Jin the OK to go down this path not realizing it would have a detrimental impact on his people. Act 3 would remain largely the same where Jin is basically excommunicado but Shimura stiil supports him in the final battle.

All in all, although the whole honor angle felt very simplistic and transparent, i do feel like they did a great job in paying it off in that final duel with Shimura (bonus points for suckerpunch showing restraint and making the only moral choice be right there at the end of the game, so much more impactful) My first thought was i have no desire to kill Shimura just by virtue of the fact that he's Jin's family and it didn't seem like something he would do but i had to really stop and catch myself and realize that Jin ruined Shimura by going against everything he stood for and believed in (even if he had good intentions) so the least that could be done was to grant his wishes to give him an honorable death.

I did have some issues with the game, most of them minor but i did feel like they added up:

  • Standoffs felt extremely inconsistent. You have to be a certain distance away from a group of enemies to trigger a standoff. Being too close to them, even if they don't see you, wont result in the prompt. This leads to situations where i'd be too close to a group and would have to actually back away just so i can do a standoff. I imagine this is done just so it could have the cool shot of you and the enemy approaching each other for the standoff but considering it cuts to that scene, that's something that could still happen even if you trigger the standoff from a closer distance. I've also had situations i could trigger a standoff while i was in an encampment (even though conceptually its meant to be use as you approach the encampment) but other times i couldn't. There's also issues with the camera being obscured if the standoff takes place in a bad spot. f
  • It feels like the game has too many throwables and secondary weapons. In that same vein, i don't know why black powder bomb and sticky bomb are two different things. Black powder bomb should have been the default with the ability for it to stick being an upgrade. At the very least black powder bomb should be on the R2 trigger wheel so that it's easier to use in combat. I never felt compelled to use it in combat because switching to it in the heat of battle was a pain in the ass since there's no slowdown on the L2 trigger.
  • Spear attacks felt a bit inconsistent particularly in standoffs. I've had more than a few standoffs where i got hit with a spear attack that was barely telegraphed at all due to the increased range of the spear.
  • I appreciate how much cosmetic variety there is in the game but tying stats to armor sets sucks and feels like antiquated game design. My gameplay loop usually went as follows:
    • Riding in the open? - Wear traveller attire
    • Approach a group of patrols? - switch to Sakai armor for standoff bonus
    • Approaching an encampment and want to take out archers at a distance? - Switch to Tayadori armor
    • Infiltrating the camp while unnoticed? - Switch to Ghost armor (Or Ronin for early game)
    • Things go belly up or in a duel? - Switch to Kensei Armor for quicker resolve gains
    • Need collectibles after clearing encampment? - Switch back to traveller attire
    • Rinse and repeat - the fact that the creative director said no one approached him about incorporating charm loudouts seems borderline unbelievable
  • I also feel like the masks could use more distinguishable variety. A lot of the masks look nearly identical.
  • Ghost Stance felt underwhelming. I didn't mind losing it if you got hit while building it up but i would have liked to been able to keep it once it was maxed out so that i could use it when i wanted to as oppose to being incentivized into using it the first chance i got just to offset the chance that i might get hit and lost it completely.
Ultimately the game falls in the same camp as Spiderman in my book in that it doesn't bring a lot of new things to the table and feels pretty safe (which is kinda understandable given it being a new Ip) but it's the overall contextualization of everything and the way it "makes you feel like Spiderman a Samurai" that elevates it over being average. And like Spiderman, if someone felt this was their GOTY i'd understand. The same way that if someone else said the game was nothing to write home about i'd understand that too.
 

nikasun :D

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,164
Also finished the game today and after not caring one bit about trophies/achievements since they were added to games, I got my very first platinum trophy :D Great game, I am hoping for some DLC.
 

Scottoest

Member
Feb 4, 2020
11,328
Very surprised the poll is leaning towards "Spare". Killing Shimura clearly felt like the right thing to do, because to me this scene is not about Jin and how much he strayed from the path of honor, but all about Shimura and respecting him and his loyalty to the samurai code. Sparing him would have felt like a completely inappropriate humiliation and I think there's a strong difference between Jin's decision to use un-samurai tactics to save his people and (not) honoring your uncle's principles by (not) granting him his wish to die an honorable death and make him live a life with disappointment and shame.

This was my read of the situation, and it's why I opted for Kill. Was an easy choice for me.

There's no utility involved - it's just about whether you want to respect your uncles wishes, or needlessly humiliate him. Jin might not believe in the samurai code of honor any more, but he knows his uncle does.
 

Scottoest

Member
Feb 4, 2020
11,328
Finished the story last night on Hard difficulty. Still have a mountain of side stuff left, and to be honest, I'm not sure if I'm gonna bother - though I might do the character missions.

This game is a pretty underwhelming, standard open-world icon clearing exercise, that is elevated to an extent through a very strong and unique aesthetic and setting. By the time I got to Act 3 I was just barreling through main missions because I couldn't stand to find another bloody fox den or clear another outpost or happen across yet another merchant surrounded by 4-5 enemies, or yet another person with their hands bound... surrounded by 4-5 enemies. I started off doing every side mission I came across, then eventually stopped doing them completely because it was always the same few mechanics - ride and talk, follow footsteps, survey areas, defeat a handful of enemies, sit through overlong and unskippable mission end.

Which brings me to my first criticism: This game has no respect for your time. The amount of unskippable and unnecessary fluff was very much grating on my nerves by the end. Every mission has an unskippable intro routine where it shows the name of the mission, unskippable "cutscenes" that are often just a fixed wide shot of Jin talking to someone, and then a painfully long end sequence where the name of the mission comes up again and you're forced to watch the requisite experience meters go up, then sit and watch Jin sleep next to his horse for 20 seconds or whatever. All of the sword duels also had the exact same, extremely lengthy intro animation..

Next: The game is too in love with it's own aesthetic. This game has a really striking and colourful look, and I love the blowing leaves and reeds etc. But too often the cinematography (ESPECIALLY side missions) will just be a fixed wide shot of two characters talking like a PS2 game, so you can watch the leaves or whatever blow around them (and also probably to hide some of the sketchy animation).

On the flip side, I really liked the story by the end. I didn't care about Shimura at all until the end of Act 2, when you started to understand the merits to his perspective a bit more. Up to that point he just came across like a pretty one dimensional father figure blathering about honour, and it felt like I could see where the story was going a mile away. I thought the introduction of the Mongols using Jin's poison was an interesting wrinkle to help this transition along, though I also thought it was a little bit of a cop out (since Shimura's objections went way further than just poison, and Jin had a MUCH stronger moral position on virtually everything else). I thought the very end of the game was handled beautifully - just that entire last mission where you think maybe they are going to hug it out and go their separate ways, only to realize as Jin does that it just can't be that way. I do think the game-ification of the duel robbed it of some of it's emotional weight when you're, say, retrying it for the fifth time and listening to the two characters exclaim the same things in battle. I get it though.

It feels like the game has too many throwables and secondary weapons. In that same vein, i don't know why black powder bomb and sticky bomb are two different things. Black powder bomb should have been the default with the ability for it to stick being an upgrade. At the very least black powder bomb should be on the R2 trigger wheel so that it's easier to use in combat. I never felt compelled to use it in combat because switching to it in the heat of battle was a pain in the ass since there's no slowdown on the L2 trigger.

Absolutely. Even by the end I was routinely fumbling around in combat as I kept forgetting how to pick certain throwables, since some were auto-lock quick throwables like the kunai, and others were treated like the bows.

Spear attacks felt a bit inconsistent particularly in standoffs. I've had more than a few standoffs where i got hit with a spear attack that was barely telegraphed at all due to the increased range of the spear.

Spears felt very cheap at times, because enemies would just skate along the ground during heavy attacks to try and stay in your range as you rolled away or whatever. This was especially apparently during multi-swing heavy attacks.

Combat in general was super-easy though, even on Hard. The ghost weapons render most encounters a bit of a joke. Chuck some kunai, and go to town while everyone is staggered. Stealth is even easier.

I appreciate how much cosmetic variety there is in the game but tying stats to armor sets sucks and feels like antiquated game design.

I'd have been more okay with it if they had a quick select menu to change outfits. By the end of the game I was mostly just in traveller attire in the open world, because I couldn't be bothered to constantly go into menus to change my outfit for the situation.

As for a final "score", I think I'd give the game a 7 or 8. I was loving the game at first, but by the third act the open-world aspect of the game had definitely worn out it's welcome with me. I actually caught myself telling one of the golden birds to "shut up" out loud, because I was tired of being guided to yet another Fox Den or haiku location.

I think a sequel could be something special, if Sucker Punch learn from the criticisms of this game.