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Ghost of Tsushima: Mastering the katana

DoubleTake

DoubleTake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,529
jett said:
It doesn't look too shabby in these clips. But honestly there's always something about animation in a lot of western AAA action titles that doesn't seem to measure up to the likes that Japanese companies like Capcom and From Software create. Not in terms of realism, but in terms of the sense of impact and feedback after landing or receiving a blow. Might be the exaggerated use of anticipation and timing and prioritizing keyframes. That roll looks so terrible, and he gets up as if he in fact had not been rolling on the ground at all.
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Totally agree with this. Its the same problem NRS games struggle with that other FGs do not.

What's interesting is that they'll sacrifice visual smoothness in the name of gameplay responsiveness which is why the animation blending looks weird, but that philosophy doesnt carry over to everything. Ie. The keyframe/anticipation you were talking about, which adds a meatier feeling to combat. I have to wonder if that's why they have the screen flash when you get hit otherwise it wouldnt be easy to tell?

And then you have the dodge roll which just looks floaty and weightless as all hell, is probably very responsive, but lacks the necessary weight to keep the combat grounded and realistic like want. Maybe that's why the character does the extra little hop back at the end? To slow down the too fast and floaty dodge and give it a bit weight? Imo that slow down shouldn't be at the end but towards the middle of the dodge. But I'm not animator so...

Honestly dont envy the devs. Seems like a tough balance to find. Having said all that, still excited to try this on ps5 though.
 
IvorB

IvorB

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,995
Ovvv said:
Seriously seems like you and I watched completely different clips. Enemies took advantage of the player being preoccupied with another in both clips
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2 enemies out of about 6 seem to be actually fighting the player max at any point. The majority are doing nothing but shuffling around. Look at all the enemies and see what they are doing.

You'll notice also that they only appear to attack at the same time very briefly not sustained.

The devs are trying to create an illusion that they are attacking all together but they are very clearly waiting their turn.
 
Akainu

Akainu

Unshakable Resolve
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,242
Everywhere and nowhere
janusff said:
AlertSmoothBillygoat-max-1mb.gif
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You think i'd know better at this point but i keep clicking "show ignored content"
 
JJD

JJD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,500
Dphex said:
from the PS Blog:


uhm..looking at the clips i see the complete opposite...the enemies are waiting for their turn of attack and rarely another comes in, does a single move and backs out. this looks like a theatre stageplay and not like "unrelenting aggression" or something that could be real fighting. it has a distinct choreography vibe to me.

need to play this to experience how it feels but other than the pretty graphics it all looks stilted and even a bit robotic.
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In one of the gifs (the first one I think) the player controller character is hit by a guy with a spear while he is attacking a different enemy.

Am I the only one that has difficulty judging the combat just by watching gifs? I've been playing for 25 years and honestly when I look at these gifs I can't say for certain if the combat will be good or bad.

Personally I think it looks cool, and I think I have an idea how it will play but I still don't know how engaging the combat will be.

Still think I'm going to enjoy the game based on everything else. Setting, graphics, the open world...story seems really cool too.

Also people arguing about combat taking turns, if we fight other samurais they probably will and should take turns! It's the "honorable" thing to do.

It's even one of the core aspects of the game story, the player character can play honorably like a samurai or more like a ninja. I don't think the mongol enemies face that dilemma though! lol
 
browinie

browinie

Member
Oct 26, 2017
491
Pretty exhausted on the open-world formula where so much additional content outside the main narrative always feels repetitive. Having said that I'm super excited for this and I hope they nail the balance between exploration and side quests.
 
Dphex

Dphex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,811
Cologne, Germany
JJD said:
In one of the gifs (the first one I think) the player controller character is hit by a guy with a spear while he is attacking a different enemy.

Am I the only one that has difficulty judging the combat just by watching gifs? I've been playing for 25 years and honestly when I look at these gifs I can't say for certain if the combat will be good or bad.

Personally I think it looks cool, and I think I have an idea how it will play but I still don't know how engaging the combat will be.

Still think I'm going to enjoy the game based on everything else. Setting, graphics, the open world...story seems really cool too.

Also people arguing about combat taking turns, if we fight other samurais they probably will and should take turns! It's the "honorable" thing to do.

It's even one of the core aspects of the game story, the player character can play honorably like a samurai or more like a ninja. I don't think the mongol enemies face that dilemma though! lol
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Yeah, he does a poke with the spear and backs out. and in the first clip the guy on the left side waits very long to join the brawl. like, i don´t see any "aggression" in this, this is rather tame for a fight to death.

It doesn´t look bad at all, it just has a distinct choreography vibe to it. could be that it feels great to play, won´t judge the fighting gameplay based on those clips.
 
DoubleTake

DoubleTake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,529
IvorB said:
2 enemies out of about 6 seem to be actually fighting the player max at any point. The majority are doing nothing but shuffling around. Look at all the enemies and see what they are doing.

You'll notice also that they only appear to attack at the same time very briefly not sustained.

The devs are trying to create an illusion that they are attacking all together but they are very clearly waiting their turn.
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Yeah it's sort if funny how less realistic games like Souls Nioh will have enemies gang up on you without remorse just how it would happen in real life but here in a realistic game they dont really.

I understand they're going for the theatrical approach since that's where they drew their inspiration and the character isnt a superhuman like in other games, but I think things would be much more engaging if all encounters with multiple enemies were actually intense and fast paced.

Maybe it will be on higher difficulties.
 

Deleted member 46948

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Aug 22, 2018
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Every time I encounter one of these "why don't all 6 guys attack at once" posts, I wonder how does the person actually imagine that going down.

(yes multiple people can stab with spears, but other than that, it's a very flimsy proposition)
 

Oracle

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
1,932
LilScooby77 said:
Lol at this game and the last of us 2 being a month apart. We feasting.
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I actually don't like it.

On paper its good but in theory.....I have a feeling tlou2 has spoiled is. Its really next level compared to everything beforehand. Im not saying this wont be good, but I doubt they will be on the same level.
 
LilScooby77

LilScooby77

Member
Dec 11, 2019
11,102
Oracle said:
I actually don't like it.

On paper its good but in theory.....I have a feeling tlou2 has spoiled is. Its really next level compared to everything beforehand. Im not saying this wont be good, but I doubt they will be on the same level.
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They're different enough where Ghosts will feel fresh after playing TLOU2.
 

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
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Aug 22, 2018
8,852
Oracle said:
I actually don't like it.

On paper its good but in theory.....I have a feeling tlou2 has spoiled is. Its really next level compared to everything beforehand. Im not saying this wont be good, but I doubt they will be on the same level.
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I'm actually looking forward to Ghost after I finish TLOU2.
I'm having a lot of fun in TLOU, but I will totally want to play some open world power fantasy shenanigans afterwards.
 
JJD

JJD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,500
Callibretto said:
This didn't look cool or fun. I can't even follow the action clearly because of the dark lighting and special effects light all over the screen.

Much prefer Ghost of Tsushima gif, Sekiro gif also have that sword clash sparks but it's still readable compare to this nioh gif.
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I think it looks cool as hell, and it's super fun. I love Nioh and Sekiro I have platinum both games.

I just think it's silly comparing both games with Ghost. Besides the setting they have nothing in common and are aiming for completely different types of gameplay.
 
StoryofSouls

StoryofSouls

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Oct 27, 2017
598
east coast, usa
IvorB said:
2 enemies out of about 6 seem to be actually fighting the player max at any point. The majority are doing nothing but shuffling around. Look at all the enemies and see what they are doing.

You'll notice also that they only appear to attack at the same time very briefly not sustained.

The devs are trying to create an illusion that they are attacking all together but they are very clearly waiting their turn.
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If six people attack a single person, there is going to be a lot of "friendly fire" going on.
 
IvorB

IvorB

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Oct 28, 2017
2,995
DoubleTake said:
Yeah it's sort if funny how less realistic games like Souls Nioh will have enemies gang up on you without remorse just how it would happen in real life but here in a realistic game they dont really.

I understand they're going for the theatrical approach since that's where they drew their inspiration and the character isnt a superhuman like in other games, but I think things would be much more engaging if all encounters with multiple enemies were actually intense and fast paced.

Maybe it will be on higher difficulties.
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Yeah maybe higher difficulties will have more aggressive opponents.

StoryofSouls said:
If six people attack a single person, there is going to be a lot of "friendly fire" going on.
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They have him surrounded in an open field. One of them has a spear. I think it should be fine unless they're super amateur and clutzy but they're trained soldiers right?
 
Hey Please

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
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Mechaplum said:
Yeah it will interesting to see if we can find some to be used on horseback where it is most effective. Odachis were mostly ceremonial unfortunately. A pike or a naginata is more effective and massively cheaper and easier to use.

Another thing that isn't realistic is the use of sword to attack and disarm shields. That's a good way to break your weapon...
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Oh I completely forgot about weapons descending from OG spear. Yea, you are on point.

Loudninja said:


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Crying shame that these are not in 4K. I would have otherwise made clips from these. Definitely one of the more giffable/clipable games of our generation.
 
MarvelousIntent

MarvelousIntent

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Aug 13, 2019
3,577
Jeremy said:
Good rebuttal.

Very difficult to be excited by that combat video after playing Nioh.

Hopefully GoT has other virtues. I might well get it just because there are so few options for AAA games in this COVID era, but the combat is not interesting to me in the least.
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I dunno. Nioh's combat looks cool and all, but if you told me that clip was from a Dynasty Warriors spin-off I would have believed you. The attacks in that clip have no impact. In one swing the player hits like 5 enemies at once. It's incredibly flashy and visually appealing, but completely different from what Sucker Punch is going for.

DoubleTake said:
Yeah it's sort if funny how less realistic games like Souls Nioh will have enemies gang up on you without remorse just how it would happen in real life but here in a realistic game they dont really.

I understand they're going for the theatrical approach since that's where they drew their inspiration and the character isnt a superhuman like in other games, but I think things would be much more engaging if all encounters with multiple enemies were actually intense and fast paced.

Maybe it will be on higher difficulties.
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Enemies attacking all at once like in the Nioh clip isn't realistic. In any real fight, those half-wits would have killed one another before killing their target. Those enemies don't have the ability to hurt one another and don't care about potentially hurting one another, that's why they're able to gank the player that way. But in a situation were 7 guys have bladed weapons, swinging around like a maniac is more liable to cause friendly fire. Hell, in Ghost's state of play video the enemies call out archer fire and duck to avoid getting hit.

I'm not too worried about the game's difficulty, anyway. If the difference between easy and hard is how aggressive the AI is, then I feel confident that these gifs aren't even taken from the hardest difficulty and we've likely not seen the full range of enemy variety.
 

above average

Banned
Apr 4, 2018
359
StoryofSouls said:
If six people attack a single person, there is going to be a lot of "friendly fire" going on.
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Yeah, I'm not sure how people don't realize what would happen if 6 people with swords all lunged at 1 person at the same time. Would be amazing if the game had friendly fire so the enemies had a self preservation reason for not dog piling.
 
Mirage

Mirage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,561
Callibretto said:
This didn't look cool or fun. I can't even follow the action clearly because of the dark lighting and special effects light all over the screen.

Much prefer Ghost of Tsushima gif, Sekiro gif also have that sword clash sparks but it's still readable compare to this nioh gif.
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This was a very atypical example for Nioh lol. Was just posting it for that post, not as a comparison for what Ghosts is going for.

Still quite curious about GoT. It looks like a game I will have fun with but still can't quite tell how it will feel to play.
 
JJD

JJD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,500
MarvelousIntent said:
I dunno. Nioh's combat looks cool and all, but if you told me that clip was from a Dynasty Warriors spin-off I would have believed you. The attacks in that clip have no impact. In one swing the player hits like 5 enemies at once. It's incredibly flashy and visually appealing, but completely different from what Sucker Punch is going for.


Enemies attacking all at once like in the Nioh clip isn't realistic. In any real fight, those half-wits would have killed one another before killing their target. Those enemies don't have the ability to hurt one another and don't care about potentially hurting one another, that's why they're able to gank the player that way. But in a situation were 7 guys have bladed weapons, swinging around like a maniac is more liable to cause friendly fire. Hell, in Ghost's state of play video the enemies call out archer fire and duck to avoid getting hit.

I'm not too worried about the game's difficulty, anyway. If the difference between easy and hard is how aggressive the AI is, then I feel confident that these gifs aren't even taken from the hardest difficulty and we've likely not seen the full range of enemy variety.
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Do we know for sure there will be different difficulty lvls?

If there are I hope enemy behavior is more complex on higher difficulties instead of going the easier path that most games follow of just upping enemy damage and lowering the health pool.
 
Andromeda

Andromeda

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Oct 27, 2017
4,845
I don't know. Infamous 2 is the peak of Sucker Punch for me. I liked Second Son and First Light, but I could see the visuals getting more importance than both the gameplay and interactivity.

From what I can see with GoT they are still on the same path of prioritizing the graphics over the rest. Just my impression.
 
Domcorleone

Domcorleone

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Oct 26, 2017
2,191
IvorB said:
Yeah maybe higher difficulties will have more aggressive opponents.



They have him surrounded in an open field. One of them has a spear. I think it should be fine unless they're super amateur and clutzy but they're trained soldiers right?
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In real life do you really think 6 soldiers are going to all wildly swing and stab at the same time?
 
MarvelousIntent

MarvelousIntent

Member
Aug 13, 2019
3,577
JJD said:
Do we know for sure there will be different difficulty lvls?

If there are I hope enemy behavior is more complex on higher difficulties instead of going the easier path that most games follow of just upping enemy damage and lowering the health pool.
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Nate Fox said:
The game does feature three levels of difficulty — Easy, Normal, and Hard. On HARD, the game is fair, but very challenging. Mongols are more aggressive, and players must be precise to pull off extraordinary moves. By comparison, EASY is for players who want to explore the island, enjoy the story and still be occasionally tested by a worthy opponent.

No matter which difficulty players choose we never increase the health of enemies; this is to maintain the lethality of the katana. Our combat is all about the player's skill.
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Source: https://blog.playstation.com/2020/05/29/ghost-of-tsushima-your-questions-answered/
 
Solace

Solace

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Oct 29, 2017
1,919
Goddamn this game is just beautiful, the art direction quality is fucking off the chart.
 
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