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Ghost of Tsushima - Grounded story - Yay or Nay?
- Thread starter Kalentan
- Start date
Yup. It's not historically accurate pretty much at all, and it's disappointing they're trying to pretend it is. If they were really going all-in on the "wandering samurai" archetype, they should've picked a time period where that would actually be appropriate.
It was very clear to me that op was referring to supernatural beigns and not to steel and adamantium and stuff.
not to engage in 'tu quoque' but i'll like your take on the Assassin's Creed games too.
Hell yes
Vikings and Samurai grounded games I have waited such a long time for
I can finally cross one of the list and I cannot wait
Vikings and Samurai grounded games I have waited such a long time for
I can finally cross one of the list and I cannot wait
I'm not a fan of AC either. Their use of the time periods they're set in always feels more exploitative than actually informative. And the games themselves are so unfathomably repetitive and dull they put me to sleep. Fighting regular humans over and over and over and over again is so damn boring.
Great post, but I can easily see how they couldn't harmonize this with fun gameplay. Compromises had to be made.
They could've picked another time period if katanas and lacquered armor were a necessity.
It's (as far as we know) not "GIANT ENEMY CRABS" levels of "real Japanese history", but this is pretty much the main problem right here. The devs are presenting Kamakura Era Japan as...a weird Sengoku/Tokugawa Era mishmash, apparently?
They could have, but without having had time to research, did Japan go through any dramatic moments like the Mongol Invasion in a more appropriate period like the 1400's? I can't recall any big moments in their history in that time at least until Matthew C Perry in 1854.
We really need a good, grounded shinobi game. Especially since this is based on the actual Mongolian invasion of an actual Japanese location.
There were plenty of dramatic moments in the times after the Mongol Invasion. Even if you're trying to (understandably) avoid the Sengoku era, there were hundreds of years of conflicts and wars to draw from.
Shinobi weren't real. Not in the way that people think they are.
the warring states period, where all the stuff they want to use came from anyway.
The fact that ghost appears to survive two arrows to the back kind of kills the idea of it being grounded for me. While I get the idea of "it doesn't have explicit fantasy elements", it still has that western/martial arts thing where the character has to be superhuman to explain their survival/feats.
But I'm fine with the way the game appears, in hyped for it.
But I'm fine with the way the game appears, in hyped for it.
I guess they could have gone with this and it would have made more sense, but I can see it from the devs perspective too not wanting to deviate so much that they end up with Japanese fighting each other rather than a foreign enemy. Still, the warring states period is a criminally underutilized setting now that I think about it. There has really been nothing that does that period justice since SHOGUN 2.
Were there not spies employed by royalty who were trained in the ways of intelligence gathering and "unconventional warfare" (so to speak) during that era of Japanese culture?
Bruh.
Sengoku Japan is very well mined for video games at this point, particularly by Japanese developers.
Uh you realize you can survive two arrows to the back right? Lol The man didn't get shot with a AR15.
Right. But people are expecting dudes running around on rooftops in all black and stabbing people in the back with katanas and that's not what historical shinobi actually did. Most of the confirmed information we actually have on real shinobi is significantly more mundane. They would dress up as women and hide in an enemy's court to gather information, or they would set supply lines on fire while guards were asleep, etc. And even then, they STILL didn't show up until a few hundred years after the Mongol Invasion.
The idea of a "ninja warrior" was born from pop culture.
To varying degrees, yes. In particular, Nobunaga's Ambition is a long-running strategy game series that, while it certainly has its romantic aspects, is a straight-forward strategy/war sim.
Yeah, I see what you're saying in context to what we'll be doing in this game (almost like the Mel Gibson "Patriot" movie of the Mongol invasion). I guess they were more like what the CIA or MI6 would be by today's standards.
In relation to the topic, I'm still seeing this "Ghost" like ex-samurai as more grounded compared to anything supernatural from Japanese mythology, like in Sekiro (game of the year hype) or Nioh.
Sekiro and Nioh were both upfront in the billing of their fantasy elements and neither pretend to be based on historical events.
Ghost of Tsushima is a historical fiction game and I think we need greater representation in that genre, with Red Dead Redemption and L.A. Noire cornering that category. I don't think there's been a historical fiction samurai open-world game before so I wholeheartedly support Sucker Punch's vision. I don't expect this game to be a history lesson as some folks expect it to, but it should be an excellent video game nonetheless.
That's a closer way to describe it, yeah.
That said, I'm not sure how a game completely making up a fictional kind of ninja that didn't exist in the time period the game is set, using technology that hadn't been invented yet during that time period, is any more grounded than games with open and honest fantasy elements. It's still fantasy, it's just fantasy without magic.
I'd argue a game set in the Heian era about onmyoji actually capable of mystical acts would be more realistic given onmyoji were actually a thing in the Heian era and the people back then believed in their powers.
Right on. I guess I should reword my stance on the game being "more grounded" than "realistic".
Anyway, I'm cool with it being more "grounded" fantasy, in that real historical "ninja" didn't stealth around stabbing dudes from the shadowy rooftops, as opposed to being about mythical japanese ghosts and monsters.
I feel the same way, keeps me away from stuff like Red Dead too. It's hard for me to get excited when I know all the enemies are going to be samey humans - it's like there's a hard ceiling on how surprising things can potentially get.
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I wouldn't call it grounded. As others pointed there are exaggerations, mischaracterizations and other innaccuracies.
That said, that it doesn't seem until now to include mystical fantastical elements is cool and helps to set the setting apart
That said, that it doesn't seem until now to include mystical fantastical elements is cool and helps to set the setting apart
I see where you're coming from but I believe the changes youre proposing for the sake of historical accuracy aren't really applicable or practical in a game of this style. If we were talking about a game like total war, I'd totally agree with you that historical accuracy is needed. But in a game where you control a single character doing the fighting on his own, how do you think these changes would make for an interesting and realistic Gameplay?
They wouldn't. Give our main character historically accurate armor and weapon and we shouldn't be able to kill a single enemy if realism is what you're after.
Its still a videogame in the end just because they going for more grounded does not mean they going to extreme with it. I mean the OP even goes over this.
variety.com
‘Ghosts of Tsushima’ Mixes History, Fiction and Open World Action
‘Ghosts of Tsushima’ Mixes History, Fiction, and Open World Action
variety.com
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There are so many games set in Japan but I can't think of any that are grounded. So fuck yeah I want GoT to be grounded.
But it would justify the character being sneaky and stealth killing people - because he'd be at too much of a disadvantage otherwise.
It's just bereft of the mystical or supernatural, not an accurate representation of the period.
The real shinobis back then valued survival and ability to traverse long distances a hundred times more than combat. In fact they don't even use shurikens as they are hard to carry, heavy and hella expensive. You have to understand that iron is very precious in medieval Japan and throwing shurikens are pretty much akin to shooting gold plated 9mm rounds. Additionally the kunai were mostly used for digging and climbing instead of being thrown or as weapons. It's all not very sexy but they're there to get timely information back to their retainers not as special forces or even irregulars. News of enemy movements is worth more than one ninja going ham on enemy patrol units.
The whole ninja concept with the black garb is one massively successful marketing project.
In any case if you're interested in the mongol invasions but don't want to read relatively dry accounts by Conlan and the like you can always read Kumagai, a semi fictional account of a samurai in the thick of the action.
The real shinobis back then valued survival and ability to traverse long distances a hundred times more than combat. In fact they don't even use shurikens as they are hard to carry, heavy and hella expensive. You have to understand that iron is very precious in medieval Japan and throwing shurikens are pretty much akin to shooting gold plated 9mm rounds. Additionally the kunai were mostly used for digging and climbing instead of being thrown or as weapons. It's all not very sexy but they're there to get timely information back to their retainers not as special forces or even irregulars. News of enemy movements is worth more than one ninja going ham on enemy patrol units.
The whole ninja concept with the black garb is one massively successful marketing project.
In any case if you're interested in the mongol invasions but don't want to read relatively dry accounts by Conlan and the like you can always read Kumagai, a semi fictional account of a samurai in the thick of the action.
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This is the game devs want to make wish are very few in this time period.
They're free to do so and I'm sure it will sell great, so what's wrong with me finding normal human enemies boring?
Depends on what you mean by grounded.
The Way of the Samurai series is relatively grounded, but are set far, far later than Ghosts of Tsushima. Those games typically are about a player as a lone samurai in a sandbox location where their actions have a direct impact on the direction of the story. But even those games have influence from old samurai flicks. That being said, WotS is not known for anything supernatural.
Judging from the trailers, I wouldn't hold my breath for a really grounded story, but yes, it would be nice to have a somewhat grounded gritty "historical" game.
We can already be magic assassins in recent AC games, after all.
We can already be magic assassins in recent AC games, after all.