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Ghost of Tsushima: ending poll (potential spoilers)
- Thread starter Genetrik
- Start date
I spared him from disgrace and living as a failure who's legacy was gone because that's what felt thematically best.
Oh, no worries, I understand that much!
What I said in my reply was that I think your take is very absolute and I question why one single action in a time of intense duress "destroys" everything the game has built up? Is a person and their growth defined by a single moment? Is a mistake, or an individual benevolent act something that completely redefines an individual? I don't really think so, personally.
Ghost of Tsushima - Spoiler Thread Spoiler
Didn't see a spoiler thread for this, so... Feel free to discuss the game openly. Please do not scroll down beyond the OP and second post if you do not wish to be spoiled on the game.www.resetera.com
My issue with the Ghost of Tsushima ending (open spoiler) Spoiler
So basically it's what I think of the choice ending. I'm just not really a fan of of these in general in games that aren't already structured for it. GoT is a set story with a set character arc. It would mean having to determine what ending to go with after the fact. Except I found out...
—duplicating my comments from the previous threads—
I disagree that sparing Shimura is the "better" ending. I can get that people will prefer it but I don't agree that it is better (given the circumstances or the scenes themselves):
All the things Jin did in the game were burdens he took on for other people's sake. He abandon's the code and "lowers himself" for the sake of helping/saving others. It just doesn't reconcile with me that in the final moments of the game he would 180 on that trait and choose to lower his uncle (which he know won't save him at all), for the sake of himself. I know a lot of people are dead set on spare though so I'll leave it as agree to disagree.
My exact feeling, but you articulated it super well.
No, they're right. The whole game is about Jin realising that Bushido is a load of crap. All this talk of pride and honour cost many people their lives and would've cost many more if Jin hadn't abandoned Bushido and done what was necessary.
Besides, since when is killing someone a "parting gift"? Jin's uncle wanted to die because of a ridiculous belief in death before dishonour. You can't get a more petty reason than that for throwing your life away.
I think you're ignoring the uncle factor in this. Shimura is a piece of shit, but he also raised Jin and cared for him as a father for this entire life. Jin loves him. Jin is also aware what sparing him will mean for his uncle. He will be dishonored and stripped of everything. He'd be a living husk without his honor. Jin's own honor shouldn't really factor in, killing him is sparing Shimura from a fate worst than death for him.
I view it as Jin understanding how fault the code and honor is, but understanding that some cannot be made to see those faults.
I agree it seems to the canon Ending as I feel Jin would not do what shimura asks.
But who's fault is that? Not Jin's that's for sure. Shimura blindly followed the Samurai code. He got himself into that mess. It's not on Jin to reconcile his uncle's problems.
I chose to kill him. Not for honour per se, but because of the personal bond the characters shared. This wasn't really about some high flown ideal, although it was to Shimura, but the fact that they both cared for each other, despite the shit that went on between them, and grounded emotions ultimately were more important. I did think Shimura was a knob in many ways, but he was essentially a father to Jin...
As for Jins path, surely he has the choice to apply it? That sounds more like freedom to me than being locked into one or other ideal without any room for maneuver. There are always exceptions to the rule...Shimura was it for my Jin.
As for Jins path, surely he has the choice to apply it? That sounds more like freedom to me than being locked into one or other ideal without any room for maneuver. There are always exceptions to the rule...Shimura was it for my Jin.
Jin was no longer samurai. Honor meant nothing anymore, if he wanted to die he could do it himself.
Killed Shimura.
Felt way to cruel to leave him alive.
Honor might mean nothing to Jin at the end of the game, but it means everything to Shimura.
Felt way to cruel to leave him alive.
Honor might mean nothing to Jin at the end of the game, but it means everything to Shimura.
I chose the "I have no honor" ending and I really liked it. Jin lost everything to save the people, I kept expecting the easy way out and for everything to go back to normal but they chose to stick with Jin's exile and that type of sacrifice resonated with me. When Lord Shimura tells Jin that he has no honor but then later asks Jin to give him an honorable death I was like, "hell no, how can I give you an honorable death if I don't have any honor myself? If you want to die than do it yourself."
I don't disagree with the notion about their code being incredibly restrictive and frankly just all-around not great for the majority of those involved with it, just to be clear. I understand the messages of the game.
In the world of Ghost of Tsushima, the code and the lifestyle that Shimura knows is all he knows; it's the status quo. He's old fashioned, and he's frankly wrong in my opinion, but he lives in a world where that belief is the de facto truth. If he knows his life is over, he knows everything he's ever loved is gone and he lost the last duel with Jin, I think it's clear that killing him in this culturally understood method through which it occurred can easily be interpreted as a gift or a mercy. It's totally barbaric when viewed from a more modern lens, or indeed when trying to imagine it happening today, but his worldview was his entire life and his upbringing was obviously in an incredibly toxic environment that fostered it.
Well said. I would just qualify the idea that Jin had no honor anymore/honor meant nothing....more that Jin no longer attached any importance to the samurai traditional definition of honor. Jin has his own personal sense of honor and is now free to define his own code in my view.
I killed him because it felt like what Jin would have done. It's what his Uncle wanted and even if he betrayed Jin, he would have given him that much.
It took me a bit to come to a decision it was definitely one of the tougher of these type of game decisions I've had to make. Jin has been letting go of tradition throughout the story but he still knows what it means to his Uncle and then logically if I let him live he's not going to live a long and happy life you would be doing it to spite him which didn't feel like something Jin would do.
It took me a bit to come to a decision it was definitely one of the tougher of these type of game decisions I've had to make. Jin has been letting go of tradition throughout the story but he still knows what it means to his Uncle and then logically if I let him live he's not going to live a long and happy life you would be doing it to spite him which didn't feel like something Jin would do.
It is 100% because of how they use the music in the "Kill Shimura" scene.
The vocals begin when Jin starts wailing, where as the spare ending the music is a lot more subdued.
I also like the Kill ending better because I think the components making that scene hit so hard.
OP
OP
Well said. In addition I also feel that based on the dialog of his uncle still being able to start a new family, he would for sure be happy to be alive in hindsight once his new child is born.
I chose the 'Honor' option.
Honor is just another form of morality at the end of the day, so believing that the specific morality/honour of the Samurai is wrong doesn't mean one has to completely throw away any semblance of morality. In this case Jin letting Shimura live would just be killing him in a longer, more drawn-out, and more shameful way for practically no reason other than spite; it's not like Jin sparing him would suddenly change the culture that would lead to any semblance of a 'good' outcome for Shimura.
Honor is just another form of morality at the end of the day, so believing that the specific morality/honour of the Samurai is wrong doesn't mean one has to completely throw away any semblance of morality. In this case Jin letting Shimura live would just be killing him in a longer, more drawn-out, and more shameful way for practically no reason other than spite; it's not like Jin sparing him would suddenly change the culture that would lead to any semblance of a 'good' outcome for Shimura.
Fuck honour. Your Uncle would have let his own people die and suffer because Ninjitsu wasn't honourable. Burn that shit to the ground. He can go kill himself if he wants to die, no need to burden Jin with that guilt for his life.
I think the final question for Jin - the question which drives his actions the whole game - should ultimately be "what is best for Tsushima."
I think spare has a higher chance of that. At the very least if Shimura is forced to commit suicide then there will be an orderly transition of power instead of a sudden gap at the top in a moment when Tsushima needs leadership to rebuild. And that's if the Shogun demands such from him - if the Shogun lets Shimura live then spare is clearly better for Tsushima.
Of course in-game this isn't really a consideration and Jin's rationale sums up to "I won't kill someone I consider family." Which is also a good reason and makes sense to me, but I was a tad disappointed the choice wasn't talked about in terms of how it would affect Tsushima.
No honor you let him live, right? I choose that, while I felt it could be like a final spit in the face on Shimura, it wasn't right and Jin was above all that in the end after all. Shimura has a smile in his face when Jin spared him so I felt pretty good with that decision.
Didn't kill him and have no idea what the ending even is if you do. He wasn't a bad person so I didn't want to kill the guy.
Fun fact:
I would say one ending feels very "video gamey" while the other is quite gripping and cinematic. Not that I prefer one over the other, but they offer very different feelings.
When offered your ending choice you can actually pause the game and make a save file. When you load it'll be right back to the choice. I was able to very easily see both options, both of which feel great.
I would say one ending feels very "video gamey" while the other is quite gripping and cinematic. Not that I prefer one over the other, but they offer very different feelings.
While I find the ending where you end him more emotionally resonant, I still prefer to walk away because I'm petty.
From my seat at least, Shimura's adherence to his damn code has been setting back the efforts against the Khan the entire game. And Jin made his decision to ignore that code pretty definitively by the end of Act 2.
I wish the walking away ending had a bit more of a feeling of that emotional goodbye that the killing ending does. It feels strangely abrupt in comparison.
From my seat at least, Shimura's adherence to his damn code has been setting back the efforts against the Khan the entire game. And Jin made his decision to ignore that code pretty definitively by the end of Act 2.
I wish the walking away ending had a bit more of a feeling of that emotional goodbye that the killing ending does. It feels strangely abrupt in comparison.
Hands that shaped the world
A bond broken forever
I fight without hope
By that time Jin opposed everything the samurai stand for. He wouldn't give a rat's ass about honour. He loves his uncle very much, he wouldn't kill him in the name of something he doesn't believe in anymore.
A bond broken forever
I fight without hope
By that time Jin opposed everything the samurai stand for. He wouldn't give a rat's ass about honour. He loves his uncle very much, he wouldn't kill him in the name of something he doesn't believe in anymore.
I didn't do it because it's specifically what he wanted, lol.
He cost people their lives, the shame was his to shoulder.
My opinion of the game would be significantly worse if I'd chosen "I have no honor." The other ending hit me hard and fit the themes of the game so well.
I killed him because it's what he wanted. He was set in his ways and could never be changed so why not grant him his wish and give him peace.
I loved Jin's relationships with the other major players in this game.
A fight neither of us want
This is where we part
Eyes that saw my pain
A fight neither of us want
This is where we part
I killed him, felt like the right choice in the moment, even if it didn't necessarily jive with Jin's development up until then. I saw it as a last act/rite for his uncle, not really about having honor or not.
After watching the other ending online, I definitely preferred my choice, emotions hit much harder (with Japanese dub).
After watching the other ending online, I definitely preferred my choice, emotions hit much harder (with Japanese dub).
I killed him because it's what he wanted.
Though since it's been confirmed that the other option is canon I'm really curious to see what SP will do with that.
Though since it's been confirmed that the other option is canon I'm really curious to see what SP will do with that.
I killed him. It wasn't about honor, it was about doing right by family. Kind of stunned to find out it's not the canon version, it's incredibly poignant and seems far more fitting for the character.
