Ghost of Tsushima E3 2018 vs Retail Comparison

[Jakartalado]

Aside from material quality (not just textures in my opinion, the overall shader quality is below the initial reveal) and the overall filmic post processing (depth of field is absolutely insane in 2018), the rest is pretty much on par on quality and quantity.

It shows changes in the color or objects placements but those aren't downgrades.

People usually discuss about: "Ohhhh look, the rock is not there anymore!!!!". But it was removed by a game design decision or it's not possible to have a rock there?

The fire spreading around the 2018 demo is done in several duels that I already played, but not presented in the same situation in the same level in the final game (one that caught my eye was during a thunderstorm learning the first special skill, the fire spreading after a lightning bolt hitting the ground was astonishing).

So... just because isn't there... is a downgrade. Things can change, and just for a little reminder... games are dynamic, so maybe it doesn't appear on the IGN video... but it could appear to you. The dynamic lighting is pretty evident when looking down the hill, it doesn't mean it's a downgrade too.

And yes... the white leaves can turn a bit yellow-ish depending on the dynamic illumination. It's pretty evident when walking around the golden temple that has tons of yellow and most of its white spots turns yellow-ish due to light bounce bakes.

To summarize, character, animations, lighting, particle effects (leaves and stuff), draw distance, motion blur are very cohesive with the initial reveal for my opinion.

Overall scene objects and post processing effects is toned down. But in the end... the final result is astonishing and artistically gorgeous and entertaining (which is the combination that makes me in love with the setting).

 

[Ricky_R]

....TLOU1 😅

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I was talking about this gen though, and no, Remaster doesn't count :D

I do hope ND takes a few steps back before doing the same shit for their upcoming game reveals though.

 

[Cerulean_skylark]

I really wish these threads would be banned and instead only allow more in-depth analysis from something like digital foundry.
There wasn't even an attempt to wait for similar lighting conditions.

No shit the lighting will look significantly worse when you're comparing overcast with dramatic clear evening lighting.

 

[boi]

Just as with TLOU2 I really don't get why some some games get so downgraded or faked during their presentations. These titles are super-impressive in any case so why show of something that it's not?

 

[SharpX68K]

Question is, can Sucker Punch restore the visual look of 2018 version for the all-but-certain Ghost of Tsushima on PS5 ?

 

[Tovarisc]

TBH since e3 was essentially cancelled due to the pandemic most developers weren't even given the choice to show off a super polished vertical slice of a game years away from release. 😅 Maybe next week at the xbox show?

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We already had that HZD 2 cinematic trailer, only fair that MS puts out as carefully polished slice.

 

[Fredrik]

Recommended:

The Real Stories Behind E3’s Glossy Game Demos

You only get one chance to make a first impression, and for many games, that happens at E3. The annual mega show is nearly upon us, and developers are spending days and nights putting together flashy demos to convince us to open our wallets. What’s real? What’s fake? Maybe both? I asked some...

kotaku.com

Vertical slice demos years from release aren't full games, can break super easily, and there's a lot of tricks involved for the sake of the presentation. A scripted animation to advertise a feature can make for a more polished presentation than if you show the WIP version of that feature. Where it gets finicky is if you show off features that get cut but that's the reason it's a work in progress and keeping the audience informed about why things were cut can even be detrimental. Or, things like hardware limitations come into play.

See, the reaction to CBP77's various adjustments and changes over the years after showing a vertical slice running on a pc. Demos can really be a lose lose situation.

Hands on impressions are a key factor here because even if it's years from release a hands on demo tends to be more representative of the final product than a vertical slice no one but the devs can play, (because going offscript even once can really compromise the presentation).

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So it's all smoke and mirrors. :/

But why do they fake things years in advance to not show a broken game? Why not wait until the real deal looks less broken and show it then? Unless a dev is out trying to get a publisher I don't see the point of showing a vision or target. It just piss off the customers when they realize they'll never get the game they were shown.

 

[Crossing Eden]

We already had that HZD 2 cinematic trailer, only fair that MS puts out as carefully polished slice.

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I mean that's not gameplay that's an in-engine trailer akin to stuff like this:






The second one is iffy because one of the devs insisted that it was just gameplay with custom camera angles when it very clearly wasn't.

So it's all smoke and mirrors. :/

But why do they fake things years in advance to not show a broken game? Why not wait until the real deal looks less broken and show it then? Unless a dev is out trying to get a publisher I don't see the point of showing a vision or target. It just piss off the customers when they realize they'll never get the game they were shown.

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Demos are always just that, a demonstration of what the developers hope to achieve with the final product. If it's years or even a year from release lots can change. As another poster said, things can change a "mere" six months before release let alone two whole years. Developers don't intentionally go out of their way to deceive. They want most of the features on display and what's said during their interviews, even if say, it's represented via a scripted animation, to be present in the final game.

 

[CelticKennedy]

Yeah, game took an obvious hit, but considering how consistent Sony studios have been this generation releasing games that looked better at release than what they looked when they were first revealed, I would chalk it to Sucker Punch's first try at an open world game.

Either way, I hope most devs try to avoid this issue next gen. Hopefully.

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Huh? Sucker Punch has been making open world games for two generations now.

 

[Ricky_R]

Huh? Sucker Punch has been making open world games for two generations now.

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Lol yeah! Had a brain fart there. Maybe my mind was thinking about ambition in terms of scope. Second Son was pretty barebones tbh.

 

[pagrab]

I don't understand why some of you are angry at gamers who are disappointed by the downgrade. If developers know that their vertical slice is going to differ massively from retail, then what is really the point of showing it to the public? Are we expected to be able to downgrade it in our minds and imagine how the game is going to look like when it is released? I can understand that committing to a given look and feel of a game may be hard at certain development stages but it just means that you should refrain from showing the game too early. This marketing strategy is incredibly short-sighted. I am not even going to bother to look at promotional materials for the next Sucker Punch game as to my eyes this is Watch Dogs level of a downgrade.

 

[Crossing Eden]

If developers know that their vertical slice is going to differ massively from retail, then what is really the point of showing it to the public?

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The issue with the rampant toxicity in downgrade threads can be boiled down to this one assumption.

 

[Secretofmateria]

I think people are allowed to be frustrated. Intentional or not, it comes off as dishonest. I do understand that its a target render, but why not show what the target render should actually be when taking into account, the limits of the target harware, and the scope of the game and the world? If you know its not going to be possible to replicate a highly detailed vertical slice across an open world, then dial back some of the texture detail, lighting, and other set dressings to more accuratley reflect what the game could look like on target hardware.

 

[Halbrand]

I mean that's not gameplay that's an in-engine trailer akin to stuff like this:

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Still one of my favourite in-engine trailers. For once Assassin's Creed didn't have a Blur CGI reveal trailer, graphics looked amazing to me and I was hoping the game would look close to this.

 

[pagrab]

The issue with the rampant toxicity in downgrade threads can be boiled down to this one assumption.

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You are probably right. We cannot be sure what the intention of the developers was. They might have been convinced that they would deliver the same level of production values in the final product. I still believe the way these trailers are marketed should change. If they were treated similarly to concept art - target idealization of what the developers want to achieve, people would not have felt deceived. They are presented as gameplay. In fact they are hybrids of gameplay and cinematic trailers.

 

[blastprocessor]

Main difference l see is lighting but IGN with their compressed 1080p footage makes it hard to see everything else (texture details etc) against the muddy compression.

Best wait for DF to do a proper comparison job with commentary, leave it to the pros IGN.

Again like ND with TLOU2 did they downgrade the PS4 pro version to ensure parity with standard PS4...

 

[Fredrik]

Demos are always just that, a demonstration of what the developers hope to achieve with the final product.

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I might be naive but wouldn't it be better to simply wait and show the game when it looks good?

Why do us gamers need to know what the devs hope to achieve?
I just want to know what they actually achieved.

I'd love to get an uncensored behind the scenes look though, where they currently are right this moment, jank and all.

Anyhow, I realize that I've wasted so many wows looking at scripted scenes thinking it showed great AI or great framerates. I'll take this thought with me when going into the upcoming MS event.

 

[Deleted member 33120]

You are probably right. We cannot be sure what the intention of the developers was. They might have been convinced that they would deliver the same level of production values in the final product. I still believe the way these trailers are marketed should change. If they were treated similarly to concept art - target idealization of what the developers want to achieve, people would not have felt deceived. They are presented as gameplay. In fact they are hybrids of gameplay and cinematic trailers.

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No, they'd still get angry. Plenty of trailers/demos have "graphics not final" or something slapped on them and people still make comparisons.

By this point, it should be commonly understood that a demo is not representative of the final product. This industry is decades-old... people should stop being surprised.

 

[Talax]

Have they announced any upgrade for PS5 yet?

 

[The_R3medy]

Can't wait for all the downgrade articles to flood out......

Oh wait the internet doesn't do that for Sony games

 

[Merc]

The bigger question is if the company did false advertising. That they purposely made the game look better at E3 knowing knowing full well that the game would never look like that. If so, that is really messed up.

 

[FeD]

The bigger question is if the company did false advertising. That they purposely made the game look better at E3 knowing knowing full well that the game would never look like that. If so, that is really messed up.

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I mean you target what you can and then reality sets in. Wouldn't call it false advertising. At that point everything is, has your Big Mac ever looked like the ones on the posters for example?

 

[Crossing Eden]

You are probably right. We cannot be sure what the intention of the developers was. They might have been convinced that they would deliver the same level of production values in the final product. I still believe the way these trailers are marketed should change. If they were treated similarly to concept art - target idealization of what the developers want to achieve, people would not have felt deceived. They are presented as gameplay. In fact they are hybrids of gameplay and cinematic trailers.

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I'm 100% expecting the biggest downgrade controversy of the year to be Cyberpunk 2077, a game where the devs insisted was a work in progress and that not everything in the demo would be identical in the final product. So it
s really no a matter of just making it known that it's a work in progress.

I might be naive but wouldn't it be better to simply wait and show the game when it looks good?

Why do us gamers need to know what the devs hope to achieve?
I just want to know what they actually achieved.

I'd love to get an uncensored behind the scenes look though, where they currently are right this moment, jank and all.

Anyhow, I realize that I've wasted so many wows looking at scripted scenes thinking it showed great AI or great framerates. I'll take this thought with me when going into the upcoming MS event.

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Gamers tend to react vitriolically to genuine work in progress builds of video games. Like, hell, read any darksiders 3 thread on era. Some devs do wait til the game is ready. Others don't. it all depends on the publisher.

 

[Deleted member 33120]

I'd love to get an uncensored behind the scenes look though, where they currently are right this moment, jank and all.

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You might love that, but the vast majority of gamers don't. A studio only have one chance to make a good first impression; they're not going to waste it on jank. Sorry.

 

[Sparks]

The game definitely goes in cycles of: Ps2 esque, Ps3 esque, Ps4, Ps5. It's all over the place.

But it's a massive massive game with a very small team (for this caliber of release). Like its entire Art Department was not even as big as just the Environment art department at Naughtydog.

 

[Tovarisc]

I'm 100% expecting the biggest downgrade controversy of the year to be Cyberpunk 2077, a game where the devs insisted was a work in progress and that not everything in the demo would be identical in the final product. So it s really no a matter of just making it known that it's a work in progress.

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It will be next level embarrassing if we get "CyberPunk 2077 downgraded, TW3 all over again" threads here when game releases as games graphical fidelity has only improved since 2018 re-reveal of the title. Same time I can see there being shitstorm when what they are showing in videos (trailer or gameplay) isn't what even Pro versions of the consoles will deliver, at least I imagine there will be noticeable gap between PC and console versions.

If PC version maxed out matches or surpasses gameplay demoed now, but e.g. One X version doesn't does it count as downgrade?

 

[Sparks]

Just as with TLOU2 I really don't get why some some games get so downgraded or faked during their presentations. These titles are super-impressive in any case so why show of something that it's not?

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Because making games are extremely difficult. I'd give you a thousand bucks to find me an artist that is ok with downgrading/reducing their work. It hurts way harder than it hurts you, one of the most devastating parts of the art realm.

But making games is a team effort, it's not all about you and stuff has to come together at the end to make it work. It's very difficult determining what is and is not going to be possible until that game is done and on disc.

It's never the intention for a developer to deceive. It is just what happens with a creative and difficult medium, it's always evolving and adjusting.

 

[Crossing Eden]

It will be next level embarrassing if we get "CyberPunk 2077 downgraded, TW3 all over again" threads here when game releases as games graphical fidelity has only improved since 2018 re-reveal of the title. Same time I can see there being shitstorm when what they are showing in videos (trailer or gameplay) isn't what even Pro versions of the consoles will deliver, at least I imagine there will be noticeable gap between PC and console versions.

If PC version maxed out matches or surpasses gameplay demoed now, but e.g. One X version doesn't does it count as downgrade?

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It'll simultaneously be one of the prettiest games of 2020 and also subject to downgrade controversy. I'm guessing via leaked footage compressed to hell and back. Inb4 "it looks like a mobile game." 🙄

 

[Fredrik]

You might love that, but the vast majority of gamers don't. A studio only have one chance to make a good first impression; they're not going to waste it on jank. Sorry.

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Fair enough. They can always wait until it looks good too. I'm just questioning the early staged smoke and mirrors unveils. Why are they needed? Why do gamers need to see the devs vision of a future game years in advance? Isn't that something they should show at a publisher meeting?

 

[Pharaoh]

Because making games are extremely difficult. I'd give you a thousand bucks to find me an artist that is ok with downgrading/reducing their work. It hurts way harder than it hurts you, one of the most devastating parts of the art realm.

But making games is a team effort, it's not all about you and stuff has to come together at the end to make it work. It's very difficult determining what is and is not going to be possible until that game is done and on disc.

It's never the intention for a developer to deceive. It is just what happens with a creative and difficult medium, it's always evolving and adjusting.

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Thanks for giving an artist's perspective.

And IMO, I don't think the "downgrades" shown here are anything massive, It's just how game development works, some things will get worse, some will get better. It's a ongoing project. This gen the only big ones were Watch Dogs, R6 Siege, TW3 and the U4 reveal.

 

[Iceternal]

Why is everyone talking about a PS5 version ? Did they say anything about it ?

 

[Negotiator117]

Yeah it's not even close, not sure what's gone on since 2018, anyone have a clue?

 

[ken_matthews]

The issue with the rampant toxicity in downgrade threads can be boiled down to this one assumption.

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I think it's pretty clear that these types of "downgrades" aren't product development realities, but are instead the product of deceptive marketing practices with the purpose of creating hype before a game is released. These aren't PC games targeting a platform with scalable hardware. These are games from first-party studios that are intimately familiar with the fixed hardware. They know that cutscene level graphics are never going to be possible during actual gameplay, especially at this point in the consoles life cycle. And I'm willing to bet that the decision to put out these "demos" aren't even made by the people making the actual game, but come from corporate / the publisher. They don't actually care if what is marketed is an accurate representation of the final game, so long as it generates buzz and produces sales at the end of the day. This is the normal standard practice for most corporations in most industries with most products. I don't know why people think the game Industry immune to this sort of stuff.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I think it's pretty clear that these types of "downgrades" aren't product development realities, but are instead the product of deceptive marketing practices with the purpose of creating hype before a game is releases. These aren't PC games targeting a platform with scalable hardware. These are games from first-party studios that are intimately familiar with the fixed hardware. They know that cutscene level graphics are never going to be possible during actual gameplay, especially at this point in the consoles life cycle. And I'm willing to bet that the decision to put out these "demos" aren't even made by the people making the actual game, but come from corporate / the publisher. They don't actually care if what is marketed is an accurate representation of the final game, so long as it generates buzz and produces sales at the end of the day. This is the normal standard practice for most corporations in most industries with most products. I don't know why people think the game Industry immune to this sort of stuff.

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These demos aren't made in a week. Outside of edge cases the devs absolutely are aware ahead of time when they're going to be showing off their titles, especially if that title is years away from release. Considering that literally every gameplay feature shown in the demo is present in the final game it's absolutely a development compromise. Things like the setting not being AS war torn as in the demo can be blamed on changes in art direction.

 

[Deleted member 35631]

Has there been another instance similar to TLOU2's where the gameplay shown wasn't quite just like its gameplay reveal?

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God of War and Spider-Man comes to mind.

 

[arsene_P5]

No, they'd still get angry. Plenty of trailers/demos have "graphics not final" or something slapped on them and people still make comparisons.

By this point, it should be commonly understood that a demo is not representative of the final product. This industry is decades-old... people should stop being surprised.

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I understand your post and share your opinion to an extent. However I think some downgrades should be criticized for the same reason you think gamers shouldn't criticize downgrades everytime... the industry is a decade old... developers like ND should know by now that they won't be able to use their cutscene models during gameplay.

 

[Team_Feisar]

Holy shit can someone please take a screenshot/Hq Video from the same place in more comparable weather conditions?
The hyperbole in this thread is wild...as it is always the case with these downgrade threads.

 

[Fizie]

Question is, can Sucker Punch restore the visual look of 2018 version for the all-but-certain Ghost of Tsushima on PS5 ?

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Hopefully.

Second question is, will Sony charge for it? Hope not

 

[ken_matthews]

Crossing Eden, I know these demos are not made in a week and I think it's pretty obvious what's an artistic change and what's not. The higher quality character models, advanced lighting like real-time GI, soft and dynamic shadows, higher-quality shaders, textures and particle effects, higher quality animations, all these things were present in the "gameplay" demos but are only found in the cutscenes when the games are actually released. Like I said, it seems fairly clear to me. They script out gameplay segments using all the cutscene assets and graphical features that they know aren't possible during actual gameplay, and then they pass it off as "gameplay" running on the console. They know what they're doing. They do it on purpose because they want to generate hype for their game and they're probably getting pressure from corporate to put out something that looks super amazing. And this sort of stuff is nothing new. Bullshots were standard practice back in the day, then we had the CGI trailers, and now the standard practice are these "gameplay" demos.

 

[Equanimity]

Holy shit can someone please take a screenshot/Hq Video from the same place in more comparable weather conditions?
The hyperbole in this thread is wild...as it is always the case with these downgrade threads.

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I'll share it once I get to this area.

 

[Deleted member 12352]

It will be next level embarrassing if we get "CyberPunk 2077 downgraded, TW3 all over again" threads here when game releases as games graphical fidelity has only improved since 2018 re-reveal of the title. Same time I can see there being shitstorm when what they are showing in videos (trailer or gameplay) isn't what even Pro versions of the consoles will deliver, at least I imagine there will be noticeable gap between PC and console versions.

If PC version maxed out matches or surpasses gameplay demoed now, but e.g. One X version doesn't does it count as downgrade?

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Goalposts already being moved as to why it's okay to be stamping feet over this so-called "downgrade" but it won't be as soon as CDPR are going to be in the firing line for it are they?

Vintage era of course, but even I'm surprised at how early we're laying the groundwork on this one..

Can't wait for all the downgrade articles to flood out......

Oh wait the internet doesn't do that for Sony games

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Oh? And what games does "the internet" do it for exactly?

 

[Morten88]

Its a pretty big downgrade from 2018, there is no question on that, but the game still looks good and im surprised that this runs on a ps4 pro.

It reminds me of the witcher 3 and watch dogs downgrades.

 

[Ricky_R]

God of War and Spider-Man comes to mind.

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Gameplay wise? What exactly in each game?

What "high quality gameplay" they have shown and confirmed to be in any game that wasn't on the released versions?

 

[ShinUltramanJ]

In some parts eh...maybe it's a stylistic choice.

In other parts yeah, 2018 takes the lead.

 

[Tovarisc]

Goalposts already being moved as to why it's okay to be stamping feet over this so-called "downgrade" but it won't be as soon as CDPR are going to be in the firing line for it are they?

Vintage era of course, but even I'm surprised at how early we're laying the groundwork on this one..

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If CP77 looks clearly downgraded come release from what they are demoing now then CDPR deserve to be called out on that, but I'm genuinely wondering what will be point of comparison with multi-plat game like that on forum that is very console player dominated? When it's know what devs demo game on that platform should be point of comparison come release, imo.

Also I don't think that game being downgraded graphically between some early pie in the sky vertical slice and release justifies downgrade gate threads where people start pixel counting blades of grass to see if grass too was downgraded etc. as that shit is just way out there and ridiculous.

No matter the developer or game.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Crossing Eden, I know these demos are not made in a week and I think it's pretty obvious what's an artistic change and what's not. The higher quality character models, advanced lighting like real-time GI, soft and dynamic shadows, higher-quality shaders, textures and particle effects, higher quality animations, all these things were present in the "gameplay" demos but are only found in the cutscenes when the games are actually released. Like I said, it seems fairly clear to me. They script out gameplay segments using all the cutscene assets and graphical features that they know aren't possible during actual gameplay, and then they pass it off as "gameplay" running on the console. They know what they're doing. They do it on purpose because they want to generate hype for their game and they're probably getting pressure from corporate to put out something that looks super amazing. And this sort of stuff is nothing new. Bullshots were standard practice back in the day, then we had the CGI trailers, and now the standard practice are these "gameplay" demos.

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What you're referring to is a target render and that's not what's going on with vertical slice demos.

 

[ken_matthews]

What you're referring to is a target render and that's not what's going on with vertical slice demos.

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Well I disagree, it seems obvious to me that these "gameplay" demos are the new bullshots.

 

[wubalubadubdub]

Maybe the game will look that way upgraded....on ps5.

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it will not, it'd be a big undertaking to make these improvements. PS5 upgrades are likely going to be native 4K and hopefully better frame rates.

 

[ghostcrew]

I'll share it once I get to this area.

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It's the field right at the start of the game. Just after you get your horse. I'd already watched this vid before I started the game so recognised it instantly.

 

[The_R3medy]

Oh? And what games does "the internet" do it for exactly?

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Generally those they dislike already. Ubisoft is a big one that gets consistently dragged for this, along with Bioware, and a few others.

Seems like the internet is willing to be more negative about games or companies they're already predisposed to be negative about.