Ghost of Tsushima and its Ubisoft-Style world discouraged me from exploring

[ket]

I guess I should start this OP by saying that I don't dislike Ghost of Tsushima. It's one of my favorite 2020 games and I enjoyed my two playthroughs. However, at the end of both playthroughs, Tsushima still had a bunch of question marks left on its map and I wasn't compelled to find them all.

Why? Because I had already seen what those question marks had to offer in the game's first region and I stopped caring about exploring the world after completing most of the special sidemissions (the legend & companion missions) and regular sidemissions.

For all the praise that the game's open world has received (most of which I agree with!), it ended up having the same issues I had with the recent AC games: the world's content isn't interesting enough for me to engage with or find. Much like with AC Odyssey, the first region of GOT contains much of the open world content that ends up being repeated throughout the rest of the game.

During my first playthrough, this surprised me because Sucker Punch talked a lot about how it was inspired by the open world design of Red Dead 2 and BOTW. Now, I've never played BOTW but I've played a lot of RDR2 and (aside from how you actually find the open world content) GOT's open world content is nothing like RDR2. I don't think RDR2's open world content is perfect but a lot of it was unique and memorable (though very scripted at times). I can't really say the same for GOT and its many, many haiku spots, fox dens, enemy camps, pillars of honor, and mostly repetitive sidemissions.

The regular, non-companion sidemissions were especially frustrating for me because (except for the legend sidemissions with the lyre-playing monk) many of them followed the same formula: talk to person, follow tracks, fight mongols or bandits. The sidemissions actually surprised me at times with how unimaginative many of them were. There were so many times where I'd come across a sidemission or one of its prompts in a natural way that felt like I was being rewarded for exploring and the sidemission premise would sound intriguing (like the one where you hear about a lone man on an island practicing with a sword and muttering to himself).

But then, I'd go to the sidemission and it'd turn out to be yet another mission where I'd fight a bunch of Mongols and either rescue someone or tell their loved one about their death. It got to the point where I almost didn't want to bother with the sidemissions anymore because I was tired of getting my hopes up.

I also think that the bird/fox mechanic was kinda ruining the exploration for me because whenever I saw them I would already know that there was some kind of collectable nearby. The game already has a neat "smoke = something to explore" mechanic so why does it need these animals to artificially guide me to things? Why not just let me find the smoke and navigate my way there instead?

I should end this by saying that I'm not expecting unique open world content in every corner. That'd be unrealistic to expect of any developer since there is only so much a studio can do with its budget, schedule, gameplay mechanics, etc. But I think that a great open world game should make me want to explore every part of it and, while I enjoyed GOT, its open world ended up not making me want to do that at all.

 

[Deleted member 2172]

Its pretty incredible how the line is so thin between being "regular open-world" and "ubisoft open-world" that it basically equates to whether you put question marks on your map or not.

But then, I'd go to the sidemission and it'd turn out to be yet another mission where I'd fight a bunch of Mongols and either rescue someone or tell their loved one about their death. It got to the point where I almost didn't want to bother with the sidemissions anymore because I was tired of getting my hopes up.

Click to shrink...

Can you actually give an example of what you would like the game to offer that is more unique when it comes to side quests? Like, its a Samurai/Ninja game where you slice up bad guys and free your home from the clutches of these bad guys. Im not sure what further the game can bring to the table mechanically other than killing these bad guys with your toolset.

 

[Osahi]

I'm the opposite. I haven't been playing all that much because of lacking time, but I have barely touched main mission content because I get distracted all the time.

 

[ezekial45]

The fact that you can fast travel to every point of interest and nearly every collectable (even after exhausting it) in Ghost of Tsushima does take a lot out of the exploration in the game. It's a really beautiful world, yet its focus on the content spread out within the space, instead of actually engaging with the exploration of the world proper, really led to periods where I was just clearing off items on a checklist.

I enjoyed Ghost of Tsushima a lot, but that approach to the design of the world's exploration really bummed me out. That world deserved better than that.

 

[drewfonse]

I actually found the exploring in AC. Odyssey to be really fun. I totally agree about Tsushima, though. Halfway through I was just mainlining the story.

 

[Vexii]

I'd say most people are the opposite of a lot of what you're saying OP, because over 10% of all players seem to have gotten the platinum trophy for GoT

 

[Kinthey]

Tend to agree. Birds guiding you organically to interesting spots is a cool idea but I've started to ignore them once I realized it's always going to be the same stuff

 

[Legend of Aims]

I not hunting question marks but will check them out if they are along the way. Have been having a blast so far.

 

[Ocarina_117]

The open world itself is very shallow. The side missions aren't that great either.

The world itself is stunning. But not much reason at all to explore

 

[Mechaplum]

The open world itself is very shallow. The side missions aren't that great either.

The world itself is stunning. But not much reason at all to explore

Click to shrink...

What's an example of a deep open world?

 

[ket]

Its pretty incredible how the line is so thin between being "regular open-world" and "ubisoft open-world" that it basically equates to whether you put question marks on your map or not.


Can you actually give an example of what you would like the game to offer that is more unique when it comes to side quests? Like, its a Samurai/Ninja game where you slice up bad guys and free your home from the clutches of these bad guys. Im not sure what further the game can bring to the table mechanically other than killing these bad guys with your toolset.

Click to shrink...

There was a sidemission that started with a woman who thinks that her dad was attacked by a river demon. Instead, Jin follows some tracks, finds bandits, and defeats them. Maybe instead of that, why not have it be a person who's pretending to be the demon and Jin has to defeat them in a boss fight? Or have a story twist where the dad isn't actually dead, he just abandoned his daughter, and now Jin has to chase him down and bring him back home to explain himself to his daughter.

One of the more memorable sidemissions of the game has Jin tracking down a fake samurai. I was actually hoping that there'd be more missions like that one but a lot of them just end with yet another fight.

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

It's quite the opposite for me. I'm still in Act 2 since I got the game because I keep getting sidetracked due to too much exploration.

 

[darkwing]

i don't actually use the quick travel , the game is so beautiful

 

[Macross]

The fact that you can fast travel to every point of interest and nearly every collectable (even after exhausting it) in Ghost of Tsushima does take a lot out of the exploration in the game. It's a really beautiful world, yet its focus on the content spread out within the space, instead of actually engaging with the exploration of the world proper, really led to periods where I was just clearing off items on a checklist.

I enjoyed Ghost of Tsushima a lot, but that approach to the design of the world's exploration really bummed me out. That world deserved better than that.

Click to shrink...

Unless I missed something when I platinumed the game, you can't fast travel unless you've manually traveled to a place at least once. I appreciate not requiring normal travel after that when I wanted to go explore new areas while using a previously visited location as a starting point.

 

[ket]

It's quite the opposite for me. I'm still in Act 2 since I got the game because I keep getting sidetracked due to too much exploration.

Click to shrink...

i liked doing the shrine platforming stuff

 

[Pariah]

I think it's a combat/gameplay problem, not so much a defect of its world. Mythic tales are very good, any little piece of content that puts an apparent effort to distinguish itself from the sea of repetition is satisfying to engage with and well delivered; the combat/stealth loop is not dense or varied enough, however, to sustain normal encounters or quests for up to 30/40 hours; or said in other words, it does, but the game suffers from it.

All the same, a good foundation for future projects.

 

[Yerffej]

Any time I've watched the game play I've tought the combat looks fun and the world looks kinda boring to explore. I'll get around to it eventually on PS5.

 

[ket]

I'd say most people are the opposite of a lot of what you're saying OP, because over 10% of all players seem to have gotten the platinum trophy for GoT

Click to shrink...

i dont think that means anything? spiderman ps4 has a high plat rate too and a lot of ppl think its open world content was pretty repetitive.

 

[Ocarina_117]

What's an example of a deep open world?

Click to shrink...

The best open world of recent years is BoTW. The act of exploration itself (the traversal) and sandbox nature of the game makes it a joy.

RDR2 is also a great map to explore, with much more to do.

Witcher 3's map was also much more interesting to explore. Especially if you remove the ? from the map. The loop of travelling, discovering a village and taking contracts from the notice board/ missions from locals was great.

 

[Kyrios]

I disagree, it's one of the few open world games where I feel encouraged to check things out since there's always some kind of reward that goes along with it. Whereas Ubisoft games load up their worlds with a ton of stuff I couldn't care less about. I loved getting 100% on this game.

 

[StraySheep]

The fact that you can fast travel to every point of interest and nearly every collectable (even after exhausting it) in Ghost of Tsushima does take a lot out of the exploration in the game. It's a really beautiful world, yet its focus on the content spread out within the space, instead of actually engaging with the exploration of the world proper, really led to periods where I was just clearing off items on a checklist.

I enjoyed Ghost of Tsushima a lot, but that approach to the design of the world's exploration really bummed me out. That world deserved better than that.

Click to shrink...

I am near the end of Act 2 and have probably fast traveled 5-10 times.

Horse summoning, the highly praised wind, and all of the visual cues combined with a high field of view makes it one of the games I have wandered around the most.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

I'm the opposite. I haven't been playing all that much because of lacking time, but I have barely touched main mission content because I get distracted all the time.

Click to shrink...

Same, I just wander.

 

[azfaru]

I actually found the exploring in AC. Odyssey to be really fun. I totally agree about Tsushima, though. Halfway through I was just mainlining the story.

Click to shrink...

Yeah was about to mention this. I reached Act 2 of Ghost and after doing a few missions and exploring the northern areas for a bit and realizing it's just the same thing I decided to take a break. It's just too dull to me.

I've avoided AC Odyssey for a while because it just looked uninteresting, and a Witcher clone. I also played Origins and it didn't click with me too. Overall, the Ubi vibes were strong and I had this pre-concieved notion that it's not for me. Strangely enough, 10 hours in and it hooked me, and I can't wait to play more. And I'm not quite sure why it works and Ghost doesn't. Perhaps, exploration and discovery in Odyssey felt like time well spent and meaningful, but in Ghost it just feels shallow. Maybe the loot system in Odyssey was pushing me to explore more. I dunno. Which is a shame. The world in Ghost looks gorgeous.

 

[SoulsHunt]

I wonder if we are playing the same game. Calling this "Ubisoft style world"... disagree. I love Ghost of Tsushima's world and it's actually one of the few OW that I explore just because I wanna see everything on this beautiful island.

 

[TsuWave]

Question marks stopped you from exploring?

and the game needs to be accessible hence golden birds and fox mechanics

 

[Gedi]

I don't play these style of games much but of those that I have AC II, Spider-Man and Ghost are the ones that I've gone on to Platinum and I found Ghost to be the most enjoyable in terms of side-content (though I did like AC: Black Flag's too) and Spider-Man the least so. In Ghost I particularly liked the side-stories for Taka, Ishikawa, Norio and so on and thought they were done well.

 

[sredgrin]

I found it frustrating especially early on, I'd go found some town or w/e and it would just be empty because it was part of some mission later that would take me to it.

So while you can just wander and find some cool stuff, it almost felt ideal to focus on missions and quests just because I was tired of finding barren spots that would only populate later.

 

[Raysoul]

I enjoy exploring the world in GoT because it is pretty. The views where the shrines are located are so good, it makes me want to go back to Japan again as soon as this epidemic is done.

As for the side-missions, I enjoy it because I understand that these are just mini stories, and I'm ok with its variety. Some of my favorites:

Spoiler

- The story about the healer monk who tries to save a family, which results in another one dying
- The story of the poisoned family as a consequence of the Mongols copying your poison
- The girl that was tricked resulting in her family getting killed, and then she killed herself after the mission because of guilt

 

[ket]

Question marks stopped you from exploring?

and the game needs to be accessible hence golden birds and fox mechanics

Click to shrink...

no i explored the question marks and i didn't find them interesting enough to keeping exploring them because they just ended up being the same thing again and again (except for the platforming shrines, those were cool).

 

[Temascos]

I generally love the exploration in Ghost but on some occasions it felt like I was going through the motions. But when I changed my mindset a bit and enjoyed the journey more it felt a lot better.

That being said, for a sequel some greater variety in the missions and exploration wouldn't go amiss. Maybe keep the scale generally the same, but just do something different every once in a while to keep it exciting. I have yet to play to the end but maybe more horse chases, cavalry battles, collapsing structures, rescuing people in dangerous environmental conditions, something like that will be helpful in engaging players in the world more in the long term.

 

[trapt777]

Best thing to do is to ignore all the 'bases' and explore naturally instead. As soon as you realise that clearing the bases clears the fog of war surrounding it and reveals the question marks, it turns into a checklist.

 

[Lowrys]

I've just got to the second part of the map and have no drive to continue. I appreciate that they tried to make exploration organic, but ironically the effect is anything but. Every time you're close to something that stupid bird appears, and because there's no compass I constantly need to keep opening the map to orient myself, which is surely the opposite of what they wanted players to do.

I don't need question marks or a minimap, but I do need to know which fucking direction I'm heading so I can make sense of where I am in the world. Please add a bloody compass, just a simple compass. I need to have some spatial awareness of where I am, because the scenery is all quite similar and there aren't many unique geographical features you can orient yourself by.

As with Odyssey, the gameplay isn't deep enough for me to sustain the open world. I enjoy the combat and clearing camps but I've done that countless times already and I really can't stomach the thought of doing it again for another 20h+.

 

[Billdrew]

Weirdly I actually really enjoyed the haikus and also the hot springs, somehow felt relaxing to me to find these beautiful spots.
The fox was fun at first but I felt there were too many of those.
Hoping for more variety of these sort of side activities in a possible sequel, I want to drink sake, eat ramen and collect different teas or something

 

[azfaru]

What's an example of a deep open world?

Click to shrink...

Sorry to butt in, but I think BOTW is an example of a world which is rich and deep and consistently manages to surprise you at just about every step of the way.

But it's not just to the credit of the "world", it's the systems laid down within the gameplay mechanics itself. For example, without the weapon breaking system, I wouldn't be compelled to explore for stronger weapons. Without the cooking mechanics, I wouldn't be motivated to explore the world to get rare ingredients, without the shrines, I wouldn't care to climb up all the towers, so and so forth.

So maybe Ghost is just lacking in the gameplay mechanics department? It's a bit thin. They have a lot of neat little navigation ideas with the wind, animals, smokes etc, but after going through the few of them and realising I don't really need the things they reward me with, I just don't even bother anymore. As it stands right now (Act 2), I feel like I have everything I need to get through all the combat situations. Not to mention the story missions are by far the most rewarding (as it should be, but then it detracts my motivation to explore the world). All the other supporting systems (skills, charms, armor, weapons, etc) are not imperative enough to my success that it doesn't compel me enough to explore and find them. Oh well.

 

[3lysium]

It's perhaps the only game in the past few years that I have even cared about exploring every little last piece, doing every quest along the way without an urgency to finish the main story and be done with it. Yesterday I finally finished the main story, with a small amount of quests remaining, of which I will enjoy every last waking moment of this truly beautiful island. Never have I shed tears at multiple moments in a story of a game before, the culture of the subject shining through the stories of the people. I cared and I still do, enough to play and finish what I started; then stand back and applaud a truly remarkable game.

No game owes you anything beyond what it offers you. If this did not touch you in the same way that it did me, that's fine, it doesn't have to. You played through it twice, does that mean something, should it mean something to me? Just enjoy it how you wish or not at all, just accept that you don't have to feel the same way others do about your experience.

 

[leng jai]

The open world is as cookie cutter and checklist designed as it gets. The so called "organic" wind directions, birds, foxes and golden trees are just glorified waypoints that are a smokescreen for how formulaic and repetitive the side content is. It becomes very apparent before you even finish act 1. Just looking at the trophy list and the fact there are 49 fox dens should tell you what kind of open world it is.

 

[Alek]

I'd say most people are the opposite of a lot of what you're saying OP, because over 10% of all players seem to have gotten the platinum trophy for GoT

Click to shrink...

Most people don't even finish a game. Most people don't play for more than a few hours.

In any case, I don't think the trophy completion percentages really say anything about how players experienced any one particular aspect of the game. Even if they had collected everything, it wouldn't mean they did or didn't enjoy it.

 

[DavidDesu]

Sounds like what I was worried about. The minute they showed us that animals would guide to new missions or content I kinda thought "damn so that's gonna happen all the time and become really obvious isn't it", and sounds like it is.

 

[leng jai]

Most people don't even finish a game. Most people don't play for more than a few hours.

In any case, I don't think the trophy completion percentages really say anything about how players experienced any one particular aspect of the game. Even if they had collected everything, it wouldn't mean they did or didn't enjoy it.

Click to shrink...

High platinum percentage most of the time just means it was loss easy, not that the game was so amazing people felt compelled to do everything.

 

[iamandy]

I haven't played this game yet (and I'm just waiting for the time to do so), but I understand your complaint.

I felt the same when I played Breath of the Wild. However, I really like the Ubisoft style and when the game clicks for me (something that didn't happen with Zelda) I really like it.

 

[MarvelousIntent]

As much as I love Ghost of Tsushima, I do wish I could turn off the question marks and I wish there was more to towns than just vendors and side-quests.

 

[IDreamOfHime]

You don't want to go pet a cute fox?

Umm, ok.... monster.

 

[ket]

You don't want to go pet a cute fox?

Umm, ok.... monster.

Click to shrink...

lol the first time i came across one of the foxes, i was like, "jin is going to eat that thing, right? he must be pretty hungry!"

 

[Voodoopeople]

I lost interest after about 6hrs. As with Jedi Fallen Order I like the linear opening but started to lose interest when exploring the open world. Mechanically it felt a bit by the numbers. I'd love an instant fast travel option when progressing between missions in open world games these days. Just instantly jump from one mission to the next without the travelling.

 

[SheriffMcDuck]

Sorry to butt in, but I think BOTW is an example of a world which is rich and deep and consistently manages to surprise you at just about every step of the way.

But it's not just to the credit of the "world", it's the systems laid down within the gameplay mechanics itself. For example, without the weapon breaking system, I wouldn't be compelled to explore for stronger weapons. Without the cooking mechanics, I wouldn't be motivated to explore the world to get rare ingredients, without the shrines, I wouldn't care to climb up all the towers, so and so forth.

So maybe Ghost is just lacking in the gameplay mechanics department? It's a bit thin. They have a lot of neat little navigation ideas with the wind, animals, smokes etc, but after going through the few of them and realising I don't really need the things they reward me with, I just don't even bother anymore. As it stands right now (Act 2), I feel like I have everything I need to get through all the combat situations. Not to mention the story missions are by far the most rewarding (as it should be, but then it detracts my motivation to explore the world). All the other supporting systems (skills, charms, armor, weapons, etc) are not imperative enough to my success that it doesn't compel me enough to explore and find them. Oh well.

Click to shrink...

Opinions and all that, but the weapons breaking was exactly the reason I hated exploring in BotW. I knew for almost everything I did I was going to get a weapon that would eventually break, and/or get to do a shrine which did vary in execution, but didn't really compel me to continue doing them.

Ghost's open world activities were okay, mostly quick inconsequential activities. I had a good time with it but don't expect to replay it for a while, if at all.

 

[OSHAN]

You could probably play GoT in its entirety and rarely access the map. The game seems to be designed around visual cues to follow, and it constantly points you in the right directly with the wind during quests. It's almost like they thought last minute, hey, we need a map, people will be upset without one.

It just takes an unnatural amount of discipline to not open the map while playing.

 

[LuuKyK]

Gotta disagree with you OP. I found the world incredibly inviting and the gameplay loop super rewarding so even if some quests felt very similar in essence I still felt encouraged to keep going.

 

[Mechaplum]

Sorry to butt in, but I think BOTW is an example of a world which is rich and deep and consistently manages to surprise you at just about every step of the way.

But it's not just to the credit of the "world", it's the systems laid down within the gameplay mechanics itself. For example, without the weapon breaking system, I wouldn't be compelled to explore for stronger weapons. Without the cooking mechanics, I wouldn't be motivated to explore the world to get rare ingredients, without the shrines, I wouldn't care to climb up all the towers, so and so forth.

So maybe Ghost is just lacking in the gameplay mechanics department? It's a bit thin. They have a lot of neat little navigation ideas with the wind, animals, smokes etc, but after going through the few of them and realising I don't really need the things they reward me with, I just don't even bother anymore. As it stands right now (Act 2), I feel like I have everything I need to get through all the combat situations. Not to mention the story missions are by far the most rewarding (as it should be, but then it detracts my motivation to explore the world). All the other supporting systems (skills, charms, armor, weapons, etc) are not imperative enough to my success that it doesn't compel me enough to explore and find them. Oh well.

Click to shrink...

The best open world of recent years is BoTW. The act of exploration itself (the traversal) and sandbox nature of the game makes it a joy.

RDR2 is also a great map to explore, with much more to do.

Witcher 3's map was also much more interesting to explore. Especially if you remove the ? from the map. The loop of travelling, discovering a village and taking contracts from the notice board/ missions from locals was great.

Click to shrink...

See I knew you'll be touting BoTW, but that world is absolutely boring to me because i have no reason to play with all those systems. It's a great sandbox, but if your definition of a deep open world means a large interplay of multiple systems then it's not for me. All those systems like weapons breaking, cooking etc was a chore to me.

But that's fine, because I am a narrative and character focused player and that game isn't for me.

 

[TsuWave]

and because there's no compass I constantly need to keep opening the map to orient myself, which is surely the opposite of what they wanted players to do.

Click to shrink...

bruh. the wind is supposed to guide you. you mark the direction you want to head into and the wind will be blowing that way, there's always a serene breeze blowing in the direction you want to head into and the leaves fly and sway that direction too, but if you need further help you can just make an upward motion on the trackpad and the wind will strongly blow that way.

I'm confused.

 

[Ocarina_117]

See I knew you'll be touting BoTW, but that world is absolutely boring to me because i have no reason to play with all those systems. It's a great sandbox, but if your definition of a deep open world means a large interplay of multiple systems then it's not for me. All those systems like weapons breaking, cooking etc was a chore to me.

But that's fine, because I am a narrative and character focused player and that game isn't for me.

Click to shrink...

Even in terms of narrative and character focus GoT doesn't compare with RDR2 and Witcher 3. The open world in those games supplemented the story telling and character arcs for Geralt and Arthur.

Arthur Morgan's best character moments in the game come as a result of exploration.

Whereas in Wither 3 the loop of explore, discover village, take contracts fits into the role of a Witcher. The story around missions are also head and shoulders above GoT.

As harsh as it sounds GoT pales in comparison.