German Federal Elections 2021 - 20th Bundestag

[Isee]

I got nothing out of it yesterday, having 7 parties present, two parties supporting the same candidate de facto doubling the speech time for Laschet, parties not able to answer every question and a lot of time wasted on venomous Weidel, giving nazis a platform. AfD is stock at 11%, their voters are unreachable and AfD is only able to resonate more and more with them.

Moderation was terrible and felt biased. Baerbock, Scholz and Wissler were constantly interrupted and Laschet was allowed to give monologues that were just repeating questions, attacking other parties.

such an format would need to be hours long, which is impossible.

It was a shitshow imo.

 

[Sonix]

The problem is also that the issues of the very poor has no relevance in today's politics, not even by the Linke. And it will be used as fodder in the "us versus them" narrative war. Someone who is working for minimum wage, who sees that 95% of his colleagues gets the same money as them and the only difference is the number of hours you can or want to do in a week. So the whole gender pay inequality falls on deaf ears because it is seen as a "rich people" problem. The constant pointing to CEO-, Manager-, and Politician- positions doesn't help the matter.
When they point out that feminists (always with a disgusted connotation) and politicians don't fight for women to work in undesired fields (like sewer workers, garbage collectors, farming, the trades, etc.) but only want the high paying cushioned office or manager jobs, they get applause from most of the listeners, men and women.

And they think, "why should I care, they don't make policies that improves my standing, my situation" Hartz4 did an immense job in radicalizing poor people, many of them don't vote for the party that (maybe) improves their situation, they vote to fuck with the system. They vote for the party who "sticks it to the politicians"

And as long as those economic issues the poor have is not countered by policies, it will always be a political powder keg and most poor women won't fight for gender pay inequality when it is only improving the situation of the "rich" (as in high middle class and up). They have other more pressing issues, like childcare costs, Hartz4, only being able to work 20 to 30 hours, KITA places, school material money, surviving as a single mother, etc.

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I understand where you're coming from but would argue that the left does focus on low-income families, workers on minimum wages and the unemployed, for example by wanting to increase the minimum wage to 12€. The problem is again the narrative, which focuses on other topics but I would argue thats not the choice of the left themselves but of the larger landscape. See for example the etreme focus on NATO membership that was prevalent a few weeks back. Thats not even remotely the most important issue for any of the left candidates, they repeatedly said so. Still, everyone else focused exclusively on that and drowned out all other key points of their program.

 

[eebster]

The problem is also that the issues of the very poor has no relevance in today's politics, not even by the Linke. And it will be used as fodder in the "us versus them" narrative war. Someone who is working for minimum wage, who sees that 95% of his colleagues gets the same money as them and the only difference is the number of hours you can or want to do in a week. So the whole gender pay inequality falls on deaf ears because it is seen as a "rich people" problem. The constant pointing to CEO-, Manager-, and Politician- positions doesn't help the matter.
When they point out that feminists (always with a disgusted connotation) and politicians don't fight for women to work in undesired fields (like sewer workers, garbage collectors, farming, the trades, etc.) but only want the high paying cushioned office or manager jobs, they get applause from most of the listeners, men and women.

And they think, "why should I care, they don't make policies that improves my standing, my situation" Hartz4 did an immense job in radicalizing poor people, many of them don't vote for the party that (maybe) improves their situation, they vote to fuck with the system. They vote for the party who "sticks it to the politicians"

And as long as those economic issues the poor have is not countered by policies, it will always be a political powder keg and most poor women won't fight for gender pay inequality when it is only improving the situation of the "rich" (as in high middle class and up). They have other more pressing issues, like childcare costs, Hartz4, only being able to work 20 to 30 hours, KITA places, school material money, surviving as a single mother, etc.

Click to shrink...

The economic issues are the focus point of Die Linke. All of their policies would help these working class people.
It's not a policy or messaging issue from left parties. It's an issue of the people benefiting most from these issues just being to damn conservative and right. You just can't get through to them.
To put it bluntly, working class people in Germany are too stupid to realise that the economic policies of Die Linke would help them. They focus too much on stuff they think are hurting them. "They are giving all of our money to refugees while we don't have enough money for retirement" etc. Working class and lower class germans HATE everything they deem linksgrünversifft. Welcoming refugees, imposing Tempolimits, cityless cars, Gender in the language, veganism, you name it. They don't see past these issues. Die Linke would help them with increasing minimum wage, lowering rents etc. But they don't even get or care about these messages. All they hear about is Linke welcoming even more refugees into the country and hate them for being left.

"Left" isn't a term for describing economic leftness anymore, it's more about being socially left. And working class people hate anything socially left. It's more of an insult today.
As long as they look to the left and right and fight each other instead of coming together and fighting those above them, their situation won't get better.
They are so damn stupid to think that AfD are a party of the people cause they are gladly picking up on those bogeyman. They think AfD is a working class party because they are fighting against exactly those things. Anything that is linksgrünversifft. They are against refugees, against Tempolimits, Klimawandel etc.. Those are the things that are the reason for their miserable lifes right? No it isn't, but too many people think it is.

I'm a child of a working class family as well btw, I'm not talking down to those people. I vote Left because I want everyone to have a good life even though it goes against my own financial interests but it just makes me angry to see them being so fucking ignorant. The elites and super rich are laughing their asses off that Alman Achim from Bottrop is taking the streets to fight against refugees coming into the country instead of looking up and fighting those who are exploiting them.


Basically Sahra Wagenknecht is exactly right. She is saying that Die Linke is losing their working class clientele because they focus too much on social issues. That's true. But she's wrong in putting the blame on Die Linke instead of the working class people. A left party is supposed to talk about these issues, it's a shame but not their problem when their original clientele has just become to conservative

 

[Kyougar]

I understand where you're coming from but would argue that the left does focus on low-income families, workers on minimum wages and the unemployed, for example by wanting to increase the minimum wage to 12€. The problem is again the narrative, which focuses on other topics but I would argue thats not the choice of the left themselves but of the larger landscape. See for example the etreme focus on NATO membership that was prevalent a few weeks back. Thats not even remotely the most important issue for any of the left candidates, they repeatedly said so. Still, everyone else focused exclusively on that and drowned out all other key points of their program.

Click to shrink...

The economic issues are the focus point of Die Linke. All of their policies would help these working class people.
But to put it bluntly, working class people in Germany are too stupid to realise that the economic policies of Die Linke would help them. They focus too much on stuff they think are hurting them. "They are giving all of our money to refugees while we don't have enough money for retirement" etc. Working class and lower class germans HATE everything they deem linksgrünversifft. Welcoming refugees, imposing Tempolimits, cityless cars, Gender in the language, veganism, you name it. They don't see past these issues. Die Linke would help them with increasing minimum wage, lowering rents etc. But they don't even get or care about these messages. All they hear is Linke welcoming even more refugees into the country and hate them for being left.
"Left" isn't a term for describing economic leftness anymore, it's more about being socially left. And working class people hate anything socially left.
As long as they look to the left and right and fight each other instead of coming together and fighting those above them, their situation won't get better.

It's not a policy or messaging issue from left parties. It's an issue of the people benefiting most from these issues just being to damn conservative and right. You just can't get through to them. They are so damn stupid to think that AfD are a party of the people cause they are gladly picking up on those bogeyman. They think AfD is a working class party because they are fighting against exactly those things. Anything that is linksgrünversifft. They are against refugees, against Tempolimits, Klimawandel etc.. Those are the things that are the reason for their miserable lifes right? No it isn't, but too many people think it is.

I'm a child of a working class family as well btw, I'm not talking down to those people. I vote Left because I want everyone to have a good life even though it goes against my own financial interests but it just makes me angry to see them being so fucking ignorant. The elites and super rich are laughing their asses off that Alman Achim from Bottrop is taking the streets to fight against refugees coming into the country instead of looking up and fighting those who are exploiting them.

Click to shrink...

I hear you. And the drive for a higher minimum wage is great. I welcome it, because it would mean many more people get a better pay, I also get more money (currently above minimum wage but below 12€) The issue is, that it won't counter the bad faith narrative of actors who point out that Gender Equality issues only matter for the rich.
Hartz4 is another issue, many women are single mothers without a job and that alone is a big driver of gender inequality. And a better minimum wage sadly doesn't affect this. (apart from the more clinical consideration that it incentivizes getting work because the gap between Hartz 4 and minimum wage is bigger and working for 20 or 30 hours (or raising it from to 30 or 40 if one did 20 hours as an Aufstocker before) would make more sense financially. Same with the consideration about childcare places in the morning or afternoon the better minimum wage could mean that it would be more economical to go to work and pay childcare instead of being at home with the kids with hartz4.

 

[Bonejack]

We're bascially at the election and while they made it out of the sub 20% ranges, i don't see those small rises being enough for CDU on sunday.

At least i hope so with my full heart.

 

[Kyougar]

We're bascially at the election and while they made it out of the sub 20% ranges, i don't see those small rises being enough for CDU on sunday.

At least i hope so with my full heart.

Click to shrink...

it would be soul-crushing if the CDU would take the win anyway.

Is there a possibility that the SPD could make a coalition with the greens and linke anyway? Or is that only possible if the winner can't get a working coalition beforehand?

 

[Bonejack]

it would be soul-crushing if the CDU would take the win anyway.

Is there a possibility that the SPD could make a coalition with the greens and linke anyway? Or is that only possible if the winner can't get a working coalition beforehand?

Click to shrink...

They could if the greens refuse Jamaica. But they would need to be real close to each other that the CDU won't cry about "stealing the vote" when the SPD makes a RGR coalition.

It's also the only coalition that would work, as FDP would be dead set on CDU taking the chancellor spot if they win even so slighty.

 

[Burbank]

The economic issues are the focus point of Die Linke. All of their policies would help these working class people.
It's not a policy or messaging issue from left parties. It's an issue of the people benefiting most from these issues just being to damn conservative and right. You just can't get through to them.
To put it bluntly, working class people in Germany are too stupid to realise that the economic policies of Die Linke would help them. They focus too much on stuff they think are hurting them. "They are giving all of our money to refugees while we don't have enough money for retirement" etc. Working class and lower class germans HATE everything they deem linksgrünversifft. Welcoming refugees, imposing Tempolimits, cityless cars, Gender in the language, veganism, you name it. They don't see past these issues. Die Linke would help them with increasing minimum wage, lowering rents etc. But they don't even get or care about these messages. All they hear about is Linke welcoming even more refugees into the country and hate them for being left.

"Left" isn't a term for describing economic leftness anymore, it's more about being socially left. And working class people hate anything socially left. It's more of an insult today.
As long as they look to the left and right and fight each other instead of coming together and fighting those above them, their situation won't get better.
They are so damn stupid to think that AfD are a party of the people cause they are gladly picking up on those bogeyman. They think AfD is a working class party because they are fighting against exactly those things. Anything that is linksgrünversifft. They are against refugees, against Tempolimits, Klimawandel etc.. Those are the things that are the reason for their miserable lifes right? No it isn't, but too many people think it is.

I'm a child of a working class family as well btw, I'm not talking down to those people. I vote Left because I want everyone to have a good life even though it goes against my own financial interests but it just makes me angry to see them being so fucking ignorant. The elites and super rich are laughing their asses off that Alman Achim from Bottrop is taking the streets to fight against refugees coming into the country instead of looking up and fighting those who are exploiting them.


Basically Sahra Wagenknecht is exactly right. She is saying that Die Linke is losing their working class clientele because they focus too much on social issues. That's true. But she's wrong in putting the blame on Die Linke instead of the working class people. A left party is supposed to talk about these issues, it's a shame but not their problem when their original clientele has just become to conservative

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The bolded is such an arrogant and regrettable viewpoint often voiced by Vänsterpartiet (the Swedish equivalent to die Linke).

It's a party of high income earners and or academics. To avoid introspection and keep their preferred agenda, they're often comfortable dismissing the people they claim as allies to be stupid.

 

[cyba89]

Thought the Schlussrunde was dreadful. A strict question/answer-format so every candidate can give their same election programme answers we already heard ten times in other shows. There was no benefit of having them all in one room because the format allowed for no direct political discourse between the parties. Even worse than the Triells. And why was Söder there?

Every Lanz show is more exciting.

 

[Xater]

Thought the Schlussrunde was dreadful. A strict question/answer-format so every candidate can give their same election programme answers we already heard ten times in other shows. There was no benefit of having them all in one room because the format allowed for no direct political discourse between the parties. Even worse than the Triells. And why was Söder there?

Every Lanz show is more exciting.

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Ive been watching Lanz highlights on YouTube. The show seems to have been quite spicy recently.

 

[Isee]

Is there a possibility that the SPD could make a coalition with the greens and linke anyway?

Click to shrink...

Highly doubt the majority of SPD members will agree on taking in Linke.
And I get it, while there are many similarities between Die Linke and SPD the differences in foreign policies couldn't be more drastic.

Foreign politics were not touched at all during this election, but let's not forget that the rest of Europe is indeed watching with interest. Germany is a leading nation, soon paying 25% of the EU budget, an industry powerhouse on the global scale. I'm not sure we can afford having antique cold-war rhetoric spewing Die Linke sitting in an active government tbh. We need more unification in Europe and not people worrying if we go just as nuts and dividing as Poland.

In the end: Doesn't matter if SPD wins by 3% or CDU by 1%. FDP and Greens will decide by swaying each other and maybe imperatives towards one side or another. Maybe Die Linke will finally take notice what opportunities they miss out on and start dusting off.

Ive been watching Lanz highlights on YouTube. The show seems to have been quite spicy recently.

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Its is way better since there are no more guests presents tbh.

 

[Kyougar]

Highly doubt the majority of SPD members will agree on taking in Linke.
And I get it, while there are many similarities between Die Linke and SPD the differences in foreign policies couldn't be more drastic.

Foreign politics were not touched at all during this election, but let's not forget that the rest of Europe is indeed watching with interest. Germany is a leading nation, soon paying 25% of the EU budget, an industry powerhouse on the global scale. I'm not sure we can afford having antique cold-war rhetoric spewing Die Linke sitting in an active government tbh. We need more unification in Europe and not people worrying if we go just as nuts and dividing as Poland.

In the end: Doesn't matter if SPD wins by 3% or CDU by 1%. FDP and Greens will decide by swaying each other and maybe imperatives towards one side or another. Maybe Die Linke will finally take notice what opportunities they miss out on and start dusting off.



Its is way better since there are no more guests presents tbh.

Click to shrink...

Does it really matter THAT much to give away the keys to the kingdom and let the CDU govern for another 4 years? 4 years of the puppet laschet instead of the Leader and backstabber Merkel?

If the SPD goes into opposition instead of taking the reigns because they didn't want to work with another left party that would have little say in the coalition, then I am sorry, but I will never vote SPD again.

 

[Sonix]

Foreign politics were not touched at all during this election

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??? We literally had the whole "Bekenntnis zur NATO"-Diskussion for weeks, also in this thread a few weeks back.

I'm not sure we can afford having antique cold-war rhetoric spewing Die Linke sitting in an active government tbh.

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Please tell me how "rethink a cold-war-era military alliance" is "spewing cold-war rhethoric"

We need more unification in Europe and not people worrying if we go just as nuts and dividing as Poland.

Click to shrink...

That would be the AfD, or any other right, for that matter. The left is literally the opposite. What are you talking about??

 

[Isee]

Does it really matter THAT much to give away the keys to the kingdom and let the CDU govern for another 4 years? 4 years of the puppet laschet instead of the Leader and backstabber Merkel?

If the SPD goes into opposition instead of taking the reigns because they didn't want to work with another left party that would have little say in the coalition, then I am sorry, but I will never vote SPD again.

Click to shrink...

I repeatedly said that I'd prefer RGR over Ampel. I just don't think it is likely and I tried to explain why not.

??? We literally had the whole "Bekenntnis zur NATO"-Diskussion for weeks, also in this thread a few weeks back.


Please tell me how "rethink a cold-war-era military alliance" is "spewing cold-war rhethoric"


That would be the AfD, or any other right, for that matter. The left is literally the opposite. What are you talking about??

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Talking about Foreign politics doesn't mean NATO, it means the future of Europe, how to deal with the shitheads Orban and Kaczyński, how to deal with the USA, china etc. all that was missing from this election.

The world changed and Die Linke is still thinking in Cold War terms. I explained it over and over on several pages. NATO is flawed but still useful, I prefer USA Biden over Putin as a military partner any day, demilitarization is a terrible idea. Nobody is preaching war against Russia so safe me from the "we need to talk to Putin spin". Before the pandemic die Linke was talking about putting Germany under Russian military protection. Gregor Gysie was trying to defelect the nawalny murder attempt.I'm coming from a east EU non-German country. I'll never tolerate that nonsense.

 

[Sonix]

Before the pandemic die Linke was talking about putting Germany under Russian military protection.

Click to shrink...

No.

You seem to have some kind of personal problem with that party and I'm not here to convince you to vote for them, you can do what you want, but please don't spread lies.

 

[Isee]

No.

You seem to have some kind of personal problem with that party and I'm not here to convince you to vote for them, you can do what you want, but please don't spread lies.

Click to shrink...

yes
Demilitarization + NATO Austritt + Military Alliance with Putin is exactly that.

 

[Sonix]

Military Alliance with Putin

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Again, nobody proposed that.

 

[Isee]

Again, nobody proposed that.

Click to shrink...

it happened over and over in the last years.

Wagenknecht plädiert für Verteidigungsbündnis mit Russland

Nato: Wagenknecht plädiert für Verteidigungsbündnis mit Russland

Die Fraktionschefin der Linken greift Trumps Kritik an der Nato auf: Wagenknecht will das Bündnis auflösen und Russland an einem neuen Sicherheitssystem beteiligen.

www.zeit.de

 

[Haunted]

Linke in government would be absolutely dreadful. I don't even want to consider RRG, one of the worst possible realistic outcomes for me.


That said, between Ampel and Jamaica, building a coalition will be fucking tough. CDU and FDP prefer Jamaica, SPD and Greens prefer Ampel.

Both tri-coalitions will most likely have easy majorities, so ultimately it'll come down to whether FDP and Greens can work something out or not.

 

[Sonix]

it happened over and over in the last years.

Wagenknecht plädiert für Verteidigungsbündnis mit Russland

Nato: Wagenknecht plädiert für Verteidigungsbündnis mit Russland

Die Fraktionschefin der Linken greift Trumps Kritik an der Nato auf: Wagenknecht will das Bündnis auflösen und Russland an einem neuen Sicherheitssystem beteiligen.

www.zeit.de

Click to shrink...

That article is from 2017 and reports on something Sahra Wagenknecht said, who isn't in any position of power in the party anymore. Now, sure, you could say that voting for her is a no-go (if she is on the candidate list in your state) but she is literally one person in that party.

If you look at the official programme you find the following: "Kooperation statt Nato! Wir wollen die NATO durch ein kollektives Sicherheitssystem unter Beteiligung Russlands ersetzen, das Abrüstung als ein zentrales Ziel hat." ( https://www.die-linke.de/themen/frieden/ )

You can still disagree, but that is not calling for a military alliance with Russia. Not even remotely.

 

[AmFreak]

Linke in government would be absolutely dreadful. I don't even want to consider RRG, one of the worst possible realistic outcomes for me.


That said, between Ampel and Jamaica, building a coalition will be fucking tough. CDU and FDP prefer Jamaica, SPD and Greens prefer Ampel.

Both tri-coalitions will most likely have easy majorities, so ultimately it'll come down to whether FDP and Greens can work something out or not.

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Yeah, better include the inner parliamentary arm of the Wirtschaftslobby instead, whose only raison d'être is to make the rich even richer, because the poor don't get fucked enough in Germany already.

 

[FliX]

For posterity

Interaktiver Koalitions Rechner

Nach der Bundestagswahl 2021 - Welche Koalitionen sind denkbar?

Die SPD hat die Bundestagswahl gewonnen. Dennoch haben zunächst FDP und Grüne gemeinsam ihre Regierungsoptionen ausgelotet - eine Neuheit in Deutschland. Eine wahrscheinliche Koalitionsoption ist ein Ampel-Bündnis aus SPD, Grünen und FDP - es gibt aber auch andere. Ein Überblick.

www.deutschlandfunk.de

 

[Isee]

That article is from 2017 and reports on something Sahra Wagenknecht said, who isn't in any position of power in the party anymore. Now, sure, you could say that voting for her is a no-go (if she is on the candidate list in your state) but she is literally one person in that party.

If you look at the official programme you find the following: "Kooperation statt Nato! Wir wollen die NATO durch ein kollektives Sicherheitssystem unter Beteiligung Russlands ersetzen, das Abrüstung als ein zentrales Ziel hat." ( https://www.die-linke.de/themen/frieden/ )

You can still disagree, but that is not calling for a military alliance with Russia. Not even remotely.

Click to shrink...

If you remember the start of our discussion it was because I said Die Linke even proposed to put Germany under Russian military protection before the pandemic. So yes, the article is from 2017 and proves my point.

wagenknecht, despite no longer being in power, is still an influential member of the party and is an example of the ideas of certain Die Linke political wings.
I'm not tolerating similar deflector arguments about Maaßen. Maaßen is representative of certain CDU circles and so is Wagenknecht in die Linke.

2021 Die Linke is for active demilitarization and is saying security alliance instead of defensive alliance.
They are saying "including" Putin instead of "lead by Putin".

I say they are trying to politically wash their stance, make it sound better. I don't believe them one, single piece of it.

They want my trust, their Russia love needs to fuck off for at least four years, combined with a good housecleaning. Their SED dna is to present otherwise.

 

[cyba89]

No love for Deutschland Koalition in the new poll?

 

[FliX]

No love for Deutschland Koalition in the new poll?

Click to shrink...

 

[Muffin]

Linke still needs to prove they can get rid of their love for Russia. Yes, people like Wagenknecht have less say now and people like Höhn seem to have the right ideas: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sp...ik-a-3b360233-abbf-4403-8e89-698b5863840c-amp

But there's still not enough pressure among the party against the people who still think like that. Crimea and a bunch of Linke members going both sides or "The West does it too" as if that's a good argument and some not even wanting to admit a breach of international law back then was only seven years ago. Same for Nawalny even more recently with Gysi. That crap has no place in our Außenpolitik, and the result of the different elements in party clashing about is that security alliance with Russia proposal, complete buffoonery as long as Russia stays like it is under Putin.

I want RGR, but current Linke should have minimal say in international politics in that coalition. It stays one of the major points the Linke should be criticized for.

 

[Streusel]

final predictions from me:

estimated results:
SPD 30%
union 20%
fdp 15%
greens 10%
afd 10%
linke <5%
freie wähler 3%
sonstige 7% (over 1% will have Die Partei, Tierschutzpartei and die Basis)

error margin +/- 3%

coalition: SPD+FDP

 

[Sonix]

Maaßen is representative of certain CDU circles and so is Wagenknecht in die Linke.

Click to shrink...

You can compare them that way, yes. I'd probably even argue that both are much closer aligned to each other than they are with their respective party..

I say they are trying to politically wash their stance, make it sound better. I don't believe them one, single piece of it.

Click to shrink...

Now you see, that's a "you" problem. You fear something that nobody is proposing because you "don't believe one single piece" but you don't have any proof to back it up apart from pointing to Wagenknecht and old articles.

Their SED dna is to present otherwise.

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Thats the joker, always. SED has been gone for 30 years. Just look at the people you can actually elect and look for people that are old enough that they were part of the SED in any meaningful capacity (and, for funsies, maybe compare how many members of the other parties were higher ups in the political GDR. You'll find plenty of CDU people there, for example)

 

[Isee]

That's a special prediction 😳

 

[Muffin]

Wonder if Kubicki hurt the FDP numbers a little this short before the election.

 

[Porcupine]

final predictions from me:

estimated results:
SPD 30%
union 20%
fdp 15%
greens 10%
afd 10%
linke <5%
freie wähler 3%
sonstige 7% (over 1% will have Die Partei, Tierschutzpartei and die Basis)

error margin +/- 3%

coalition: SPD+FDP

Click to shrink...

I'm not sure if you are joking...

 

[Streusel]

That's a special prediction 😳

Click to shrink...

thx, i want to feel special ;). main reason is i think their candidates will pull up spd/fdp and drag down union/greens more than predicted.
at such a landslide spd win, it would be difficult to sell jamaica to the public.

 

[Isee]

You fear something that nobody is proposing

Click to shrink...

Is no longer proposing in 2021.
If you want to take what politicians say with value, just because they quickly changed their stance right before elections, be my guest.
If you don't understand that the political closeness to Putin or how Gysi trying to deflect from the fact that Putin tried to recently murder Nawalny and how that points to the SED DNA the Linke is still suffering from, be my guest as well.
But Die Linke will never be taken seriously until they change all that. Their problem not mine.

 

[Pezking]

They want my trust, their Russia love needs to fuck off for at least four years, combined with a good housecleaning. Their SED dna is to present otherwise.

Click to shrink...

This.

 

[Isee]

thx, i want to feel special ;). main reason is i think their candidates will pull up spd/fdp and drag down union/greens more than predicted.
at such a landslide spd win, it would be difficult to sell jamaica to the public.

Click to shrink...

I recently saw a funny meme.

Germany before the election: French Revolution picture
Germany during the election: Konrad Adenauer-Keine Experimente

we'll see

 

[Team_Feisar]

I recently saw a funny meme.

Germany before the election: French Revolution picture
Germany during the election: Konrad Adenauer-Keine Experimente

we'll see

Click to shrink...

This is my fear as well

 

[Bonejack]

Ultimately, both FDP and Linke have some problematic shit coming with them. The shit FDP side has just exposed itself with Kubicki talking heinous shit in that Bild interview.

We won't get the ideal coalition, which would be Greens / SPD or SPD / Greens, so it's not like we should fight each other over the poison the SPD and Greens potentially have to pick.

 

[AmFreak]

Thats the joker, always. SED has been gone for 30 years. Just look at the people you can actually elect and look for people that are old enough that they were part of the SED in any meaningful capacity (and, for funsies, maybe compare how many members of the other parties were higher ups in the political GDR. You'll find plenty of CDU people there, for example)

Click to shrink...

Not only that, there was an Ost CDU and the DBD, there was the LDPD and the NDPD.
It's amazing how little this is known/called out.
All legitimizing and supporting the regime and all 4 parties were taken over by the CDU/FDP after the fall of the GDR.

Moron (SPD) zur Linkspartei und Heuchelei von CDU und FDP

Im Landtag von NRW spricht am 13.11. 2008 Sozialdemokrat Edgar Moron (Landtagsvizepräsident) über den Umgang mit der Linkspartei und die Heuchelei von CDU un...

www.youtube.com

"Die FDP hatte innerhalb von Wochen ihre Mitgliedschaft verdreifacht gehabt".
"The FDP had tripled its membership within weeks".

 

[Isee]

Ultimately, both FDP and Linke have some problematic shit coming with them. The shit FDP side has just exposed itself with Kubicki talking heinous shit in that Bild interview.

We won't get the ideal coalition, which would be Greens / SPD or SPD / Greens, so it's not like we should fight each other over the poison the SPD and Greens potentially have to pick.

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I'm not fighting, I'm just trying to be realistic.
Green-Red world be my favorite.
Red-Green-Red my second favorite.

Ampel or Jamaika are the realistic outcomes though.

 

[Kazooie]

I understand where you're coming from but would argue that the left does focus on low-income families, workers on minimum wages and the unemployed, for example by wanting to increase the minimum wage to 12€. The problem is again the narrative, which focuses on other topics but I would argue thats not the choice of the left themselves but of the larger landscape. See for example the etreme focus on NATO membership that was prevalent a few weeks back. Thats not even remotely the most important issue for any of the left candidates, they repeatedly said so. Still, everyone else focused exclusively on that and drowned out all other key points of their program.

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In a way this is giving the Left a pretty good way out: Instead of more fundamental issues with the party (the old SED discussion) they have a point of contention they can and should easily give up on.

Anyway, for the poll I had to answer Jamaika. I am all for RRG, but I do not see it happening unfortunately. Especially with all of media pushing CDU and FDP for weeks now, calling the FDP "the center" where it actually is the party of radically redistributing from bottom up, they will probably gain the necessary seats to make RRG impossible.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

I think the most important thing that mustn't happen is that either CDU or FDP get anywhere near the Ministry of Finance.

 

[BlueOdin]

I think it was in a Lobo article on SPON where I read the theory of Union and FDP offering the function of Bundespräsident to the Greens to get them on board for Jamaica. Been dead inside ever since

 

[Isee]

I think it was in a Lobo article on SPON where I read the theory of Union and FDP offering the function of Bundespräsident to the Greens to get them on board for Jamaica. Been dead inside ever since

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whom exactly are they suggesting?
Isn't the Vollversammlung voting in secret? And the president supposed to lay down his party membership?
I'm not sure what's in there for the greens, a little bit of prestige?

 

[Kazooie]

Basically Sahra Wagenknecht is exactly right. She is saying that Die Linke is losing their working class clientele because they focus too much on social issues. That's true. But she's wrong in putting the blame on Die Linke instead of the working class people. A left party is supposed to talk about these issues, it's a shame but not their problem when their original clientele has just become to conservative

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I do not think you can easily say it's an issue with the voters or the parties, because it goes both ways. It would probably be a better strategy for the Left to not discuss issues like gendered language and immigration all too much and to leave this issue to the Greens. In the end, having three left parties means it is possible to cover the left spectrum better than they currently do. To give socially conservative people a left option (in the left party) would not mean that socially progressive values would be lost. As it stands, the left and the greens are basically interchangable. This is nice for me, because I then have two parties to freely choose from, depending on who has the bigger asshat at the front, but strategically, it would probably be better if the Left was catering to the fiscally left leaning, socially conservative leaning audience.

 

[Kazooie]

whom exactly are they suggesting?

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Fucking Göring-Eckardt....

No love for Deutschland Koalition in the new poll?

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Love is not the issue, the question is what we *think* the next coalition will be, not what we *hope*.

 

[BrokenIcarus]

I fail to see how a Deutschland Koalition makes any sense? It's just a GroKo with extra seats?

 

[Randam]

Their SED dna is to present otherwise.

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oh boy..

no one in the west really carred about Crimera, we have a nice new gas-pipeline making us depended on Russia, but those Linke and their love for Putin..

 

[Rory]

Fucking Göring-Eckardt....


Love is not the issue, the question is what we *think* the next coalition will be, not what we *hope*.

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Who "loves" csu inclusion?

 

[AmFreak]

I fail to see how a Deutschland Koalition makes any sense? It's just a GroKo with extra seats?

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Groko is 1-2% away from loosing it's majority in most polls.

 

[Isee]

oh boy..

no one in the west really carred about Crimera, we have a nice new gas-pipeline making us depended on Russia, but those Linke and their love for Putin..

Click to shrink...

Yes, those Linke and their love for Putin is a problem that die Linke doesn't care to acknowledge, get rid of and that will drag them down.
It is a problem, no amount of jokes or whataboutism will change that.