No?
Duden.de
Integration - Definition
Einbeziehung, Eingliederung in ein größeres Ganzes
Beispiel:
- die Integration verschiedener Kulturen in ein Land ist Herausforderung und Bereicherung zugleich
-
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German Federal Elections 2021 - 20th Bundestag
- Thread starter Deleted member 5491
- Start date
- OT
No?
Duden.de
Integration - Definition
Einbeziehung, Eingliederung in ein größeres Ganzes
Beispiel:
Try again
Integration was around 90s. We dont (want to) do that shit anymore.
you either come clear and explain or you stop. No idea what you want or mean. I'm no mind reader. I looked up integration in the freaking DUDEN and it means exactly what I said it means.
edit: Webster
Integration
: the practice of uniting people from different races in an attempt to give people equal rights
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I made it pretty clear. There is not much more to add unless I give you a German history lesson, which I am not really eager about especially as it is pretty much self explaining.
When in the 60s the first Gastarbeiter came to Germany, they pretty much stayed among their Turkish peer groups. Within Germany small parts became "hotspots" for Turkish citizen. Living in those hotspots, you didnt even need to learn German.
Within Germany you had Germans and Turkish groups. That was integration cuz the turkish lived in Germany but stuck to peers from their home country. That changed when it became clear many would want to stay. Turkish people started to interact more with Germans, because they would stay and not leave after 3-10 years.
Inclusion is what we want. It means everyone is accepted in society equally and there are no subgroups. No matter what might make them stand out, you mingle with everyone. (Migration background, religion, handicaps, ...)
I explained it excessively. No we do not want Integration, what we want and need is inclusion.
Not debating this further.
That was Integration gone wrong or not working integration. That's like taking DDR (German democractic Republic) and using it as an example why democracy doesn't work. DDR sucked because it wasn't a democracy in the first place and what you are describing wasn't integration.
you posted one source
I posted two reputable, accepted, scientific definitions of integration.
you do not agree? Fine with me.
I get what you mean, but this is not how the word "integration" is used in German. You can't take the usage in a specific academic context and assume everyone to know what you are talking about. You should try to be more inclusive in your use of language, to stick to your preferred nomenclature.
The definition of integration is what happened in the 60s. It's not "gone wrong", but rather "bilderbuchmaessig". Obviously you have no idea what you talk about and dont bother to read what i linked you nor do further research except for dictionary definition which explain tge word by using the word integration
You think I dunno what I talk about? Cute.
I am german. I work in childcare and what we are talking about right now is my specialised field of education as I focus on intercultural studies and diversity.
please come again how i dont know what we talk about.
lol no the definitions I posted didn't use integration to define integration and since when is using dictionaries a bad thing?
A dictionary is a type of book which explains the meanings of words or, more precisely, lexemes.
my final word.
And i told you, integration means 60s. We want 2021 inclusion
laschet may have a genius integration politic, because its as outdated as the way you use the word.
I am sure you know what you are talking about and have some expertise in this area, that's not what I meant. I meant the general usage of the word "integration" in german refers to some magical ill-defined idea of everything working out perfectly when people of different background come together.
I would agree that inclusion is the better concept (though also harder to sell as it puts expectations on both sides, not just the ones immigrating into a new country).
But you can't just post a figure from some paper and expect people to immediately be familiar with technical terms. You need to explain yourself in detail.
I'm an immigrant myself: Couldn't care less.
My family came to Germany when I was six. Everything I am, every chance I got was thanks to this country and not the communist shithole we came from.
Still, there were enough stones in our way, from scepticism over intolerance to plain racism. Even my fucking surname was a problem for people. All those things are still here and are actually getting worse again. There is a good reason why I am calling AfD the brown scourge and why I can not vote for die linke with their anti western bullshit stance. I know about the great Eastern European nations under communist rule from my parents and family. And no, I'm not talking about DDR. I'm talking way deeper east.
I see no value in the name change. Same thing, with a different paint but nothing changed under the hood. Even the diagrams look familiar as the ones we saw in Gymnasium back then. My parents had to fight to get us kids into gymnasium by the way. No school wanted to take us, but for one school, in another city with a director who believed in integration. And I had a gymnasial Empfehlung! My brother wasn't so lucky as he finished elementary school back in our shithole country. Without that director we would have only been able to visit Hauptschule. My brother is a medical doctor today and I am an engineer.
And now people are calling me out because I talk about integration instead of inclusion. Saying I am outdated. Most cynical shit I have heard in a long, long time.
All I see is new generation lying to itself because renaming something will make things better. All while behaving as intolerant and uninclusive as the people they criticise.
Same aggressiveness, same way to talk down to me. I experienced it for long enough and I never did nor ever will allow people to push me around.
I'm trying to be understanding, motivating people to not delete posts just because they say something slightly unpopular, helping out in my real community, be there for despite shouldering my own problems.
I do not cry rivers about my families heritage, but I learned to stand up for me: Integration, Inclusion, TomAtos, TomatOs. It's the same thing with a new name. Couldn't care less. I'm calling it integration and I have not seen anything, even half convincing that inclusion is something new.
If you want to argue with me about integration vs inclusion. My private box is open. Same shit, different name is my stance.
Good night.
My family came to Germany when I was six. Everything I am, every chance I got was thanks to this country and not the communist shithole we came from.
Still, there were enough stones in our way, from scepticism over intolerance to plain racism. Even my fucking surname was a problem for people. All those things are still here and are actually getting worse again. There is a good reason why I am calling AfD the brown scourge and why I can not vote for die linke with their anti western bullshit stance. I know about the great Eastern European nations under communist rule from my parents and family. And no, I'm not talking about DDR. I'm talking way deeper east.
I see no value in the name change. Same thing, with a different paint but nothing changed under the hood. Even the diagrams look familiar as the ones we saw in Gymnasium back then. My parents had to fight to get us kids into gymnasium by the way. No school wanted to take us, but for one school, in another city with a director who believed in integration. And I had a gymnasial Empfehlung! My brother wasn't so lucky as he finished elementary school back in our shithole country. Without that director we would have only been able to visit Hauptschule. My brother is a medical doctor today and I am an engineer.
And now people are calling me out because I talk about integration instead of inclusion. Saying I am outdated. Most cynical shit I have heard in a long, long time.
All I see is new generation lying to itself because renaming something will make things better. All while behaving as intolerant and uninclusive as the people they criticise.
Same aggressiveness, same way to talk down to me. I experienced it for long enough and I never did nor ever will allow people to push me around.
I'm trying to be understanding, motivating people to not delete posts just because they say something slightly unpopular, helping out in my real community, be there for despite shouldering my own problems.
I do not cry rivers about my families heritage, but I learned to stand up for me: Integration, Inclusion, TomAtos, TomatOs. It's the same thing with a new name. Couldn't care less. I'm calling it integration and I have not seen anything, even half convincing that inclusion is something new.
If you want to argue with me about integration vs inclusion. My private box is open. Same shit, different name is my stance.
Good night.
That image should make it clear, yes.It's really not that hard (or new) people. Let this simple image help you.
Exactly. That's why its important to consider what words we use and update our vocabulary when we realize what we said is outdated.
What you describe (people rejecting you because of your heritage) is excluding a group of people from a specific institution because they are better off "among others with that background" (e.g. hauptschule as you suggested here). The head of school who said "Join our school", is not doing integration but inclusion. He does not exclude people/deny them access based on heritage (or other factors such as handicaps etc.).
We have known about the difference between inclusion and integration for quite some time. That these graphics are not new to you does not surprise me. When a theory is born, it takes quite a while till it arrives in politics and even longer till society hears about it. Decades pass from its birth to till everyone knows, then you have to put it into action. After that comes the fighting back phase till we have acceptance. In our Bildungsplan it still says that Kindergarten has to teach children about their birth assigned gender! Who knows when we will accept that gender is a social construct.
We are by far not at 100% with the "everyone knows"-phase, as we can see. The more important it is to emphasize the difference between those two words and bury the word integration for good.
Words bring awareness, that's why we shouldnt shrug it off and just say "whatever". Just like Gender inclusive language is important.
Inclusion is very different from integration. On so many levels. If we want that change from integration to inclusion, we should bring awareness by using the words correctly.
To say nothing has changed is harsh. I cant dismiss that its horrible in many situations, but there are places which diligently adapt. I have worked in a kindergarten that lived inclusion by representing culture, and also language by posting multiple language information letters, included labels in the classroom in different languages etc. This is inclusion! Still not ideal, but we walk into the right direction.
I had also a brief working coop with a kindergarten that wouldnt hire people wearing hijab and rejected a child's application because she had migration background. That was in 2020.
If we do not use different words for each and therefore clearly differentiate, how'd you expect society to see and understand the difference and progress in the development of a fair and inclusive society?
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You're right, but about a different thing than Rory was talking about.
That politically 'integration' and 'inclusion' are the same thing I agree with. But it shouldn't. Which is what Rory is saying.
We all agree, we're just trying to say that by differentiating between Integrstion and Inclusion you can raise your biography exactly to point out why integration-politics are bullshit and why German social politics need to be held accountable to achieve something they're failing to do right now:
include people.
I invite everybody to take a look at "Lanz" from yesterday. Most of the time it is Edmund Stoiber yelling at clouds, but there was also Marcel Fratzscher present. Professor for Makroeconomy in Berlin. He gives his opinion on the plan and trickle-down-economics proposed by CDU and FDP. Spoiler: It's bs in his opinion and only helps the super rich to move money out of the country.
He also talks about retirement, minimum wage and a couple more important topics. Please watch.
It start at: 26:16
35:44
43:08
57:01
It's 13 minutes to watch in total and you have to skip around, but the small videomarks in the timeline will help you navigate.
www.zdf.de
He also talks about retirement, minimum wage and a couple more important topics. Please watch.
It start at: 26:16
35:44
43:08
57:01
It's 13 minutes to watch in total and you have to skip around, but the small videomarks in the timeline will help you navigate.
Markus Lanz
Markus Lanz spricht in seiner Talkshow mit seinen Gästen über aktuelle und gesellschaftlich relevante Themen - unterhaltend und journalistisch hintergründig.
Honestly, I don't. Not anymore after Trump, AfD and the rise of nationalism all around the globe.
I learned to hide in plain sight and adopted my strategy. Changed my surname into something German sounding so that my children can have a fresh, unbiased start. On paper I'm no longer identifiable as an immigrant and so are my children. It's my (slight) accent that gives me away to this very day. But now people think I'm from Austria as even my accent adopted over time. I do not correct them, unless it is really needed.
Fortunately that's not a problem for the next generation though. They do not even know that they are hiding.
And just to make one thing clear: I am only able to hide because I am white. Other immigrants? Hell, that strategy will never work out.
Mankind thinks in categories. That's how our brain works. This is a house, this is a cat, this is a dog, this is somebody with a different color, a funny name, an accent.
This will never change, it is hardcoded.
But as said, PLEASE, enough thread derailing. You want to keep on talking. PM me.
I learned to hide in plain sight and adopted my strategy. Changed my surname into something German sounding so that my children can have a fresh, unbiased start. On paper I'm no longer identifiable as an immigrant and so are my children. It's my (slight) accent that gives me away to this very day. But now people think I'm from Austria as even my accent adopted over time. I do not correct them, unless it is really needed.
Fortunately that's not a problem for the next generation though. They do not even know that they are hiding.
And just to make one thing clear: I am only able to hide because I am white. Other immigrants? Hell, that strategy will never work out.
Mankind thinks in categories. That's how our brain works. This is a house, this is a cat, this is a dog, this is somebody with a different color, a funny name, an accent.
This will never change, it is hardcoded.
But as said, PLEASE, enough thread derailing. You want to keep on talking. PM me.
I am with Rory as well.
Inclusion 'cause Integration failed in big ways and left a lot of resentment against the state, politics.
The problem is I see or rather was shown by someone working in politics:
It is our voting system which will immensely help the CDU/CSU.
They are the party which will get a lot/ the most of 'Direct mandate' and fill up their seats in the Bundestag.
Then based on the polling of the 'Zweit Stimme / Second vote' get additional seats as 'Ausgleichs / overhang mandate' .
Hence it does not really matter what Laschet does as long as they get their usual share of direct mandates.
www.dw.com
Inclusion 'cause Integration failed in big ways and left a lot of resentment against the state, politics.
The problem is I see or rather was shown by someone working in politics:
It is our voting system which will immensely help the CDU/CSU.
They are the party which will get a lot/ the most of 'Direct mandate' and fill up their seats in the Bundestag.
Then based on the polling of the 'Zweit Stimme / Second vote' get additional seats as 'Ausgleichs / overhang mandate' .
Hence it does not really matter what Laschet does as long as they get their usual share of direct mandates.
Untangling the German election process – DW – 04/19/2021
On September 26, Germans head to the polls in a parliamentary vote that will determine the chancellor to succed Angela Merkel. DW breaks down the ins-and-outs of the Bundestag election process.
www.dw.com
Stoiber...
The guy who clearly knows something is against the constitution, still goes on with it.
The guy who was involved in the donation scandal.
The guy who clearly knows something is against the constitution, still goes on with it.
The guy who was involved in the donation scandal.
Stoiber is a massive idiot. But compared to what's running around in CDU and CSU right now, Stoiber looks like one of the "best" politicians of those parties. Funny.
I didn't catch any TV news yesterday evening, so i can't say how it was handled there, but at least online the CDU won't get rid of CDUGate (the backfire from the raid on Scholz' ministry of finance) and "Linksrutsch" because one of the CDU general secretaries said that voting FDP is voting leftist.
Yes, someone called the FDP "left".
Yes, really.
I didn't catch any TV news yesterday evening, so i can't say how it was handled there, but at least online the CDU won't get rid of CDUGate (the backfire from the raid on Scholz' ministry of finance) and "Linksrutsch" because one of the CDU general secretaries said that voting FDP is voting leftist.
Yes, someone called the FDP "left".
Yes, really.
Sent in my red envelope today, I did my part. Please let it be a CDU-free government...
The Kinderinterview has demonstrated once again that Laschet is the candidate for stagnation. Sadly, this is what the majority of 65+ voters want, and seeing the huge black bar for that demographic in the poll results is scary, especially considering how many old people there are in Germany. The difference in party support between younger and older generations is massive in this country.
You are absolutely correct. Every system has advantages and disadvantages, but it's not like you need coalitions and compromise for stagnation. A CDU "Alleinregierung" would be so much stagnation that it would lead to regression. In the end, I prefer multiple parties in competition with each other.
The Kinderinterview has demonstrated once again that Laschet is the candidate for stagnation. Sadly, this is what the majority of 65+ voters want, and seeing the huge black bar for that demographic in the poll results is scary, especially considering how many old people there are in Germany. The difference in party support between younger and older generations is massive in this country.
Stumbled about this add from CDU. And Paul Zemniak is not a nobody. He is in large parts responsible for the CDU campaign.
Usual bullshit,
usual bullshit
bullshit
nonsense
"We are against false tolerance and pro zero crime tolerance."
That shit could be straight from AfD. They are clearly talking about immigration here. CDU is telling people that crimes by immigrants are being tolerated!
I do not know anymore. Feels bad.
I agree.
Usual bullshit,
usual bullshit
bullshit
nonsense
"We are against false tolerance and pro zero crime tolerance."
That shit could be straight from AfD. They are clearly talking about immigration here. CDU is telling people that crimes by immigrants are being tolerated!
I do not know anymore. Feels bad.
I agree.
Of course, he's talking about no new state debt. The "Schwarze Null" is basically Schäuble's slogan and mantra.
Now, if you wanna see it as "CDU = eine schwarze 0" then, be my guest!
OP
OP
New documents have appeared that show that even more CDU/CSU politicans are part of the Azerbaidschan scandal.
Including Florian Hahn the CSU general secretary.
https://www.vice.com/de/article/k78...ue-geheimdokumente-belasten-unionsabgeordnete
Including Florian Hahn the CSU general secretary.
https://www.vice.com/de/article/k78...ue-geheimdokumente-belasten-unionsabgeordnete
Hm, from my amateurish political understanding, i think the last three days pretty much broke the CDU for this election. It looks like mainstream media reported about CDUGate, the stuff won't die down on social media, Laschet's embarrassing interviews going international, they're now even attacking their to-go coalition partner FDP ...
Would be nice if germany had a guy like this US one, you know the "I've seen enough" guy. ^^
Would be nice if germany had a guy like this US one, you know the "I've seen enough" guy. ^^
SPD/Grüne are at 45% together. The threshold is at 46-47%. If the greens get to 20% its gonna be a Red/Green government and we don't have to deal with a three-way-coalition. Insane.
This would be a dream. I really hope that Grüne and SPD don't attack each other in the next week to try to fish for some votes from one another and get more undecided voters on their sides
It's an easy way to safe CO2. I think it is also supposed to be safer, but not sure about that right now.
Who cares really?
Already tons of tempolimits across the Autobahn, always construction sites etc...
130km/h is fast enough
And it's safe and more environmentally friendly. Maybe it will also make people think twice about buying some rags car. Pure win situation in my book.
This is a complete outlier though - avg. of all 4 other polls from today and yesterday show them at 41.25% and 42% including this one.
Not only that.
Besides the fact that you safe CO2, it's also important for health reasons. By driving slower, you decrease the amount of particulate matter as well. There are a lot of sources to find when you search for that.
Particulate matter is already a huge problem and every possible solution that is able to reduce the amount of particulate matter should be realized.
Not sure, but I think it will happen at some point.
I also think many people care about the Speedlimit of 130 and that's okay. I see it as okayish, but it is a limitation. I can not deny that.
But I'm gladly trading unlimited Autobahn speed versus minimum wage, more and faster green energy and a system that is not focused on the lie of trickle-down-economics.
I stumbled about volt way too late, but I like their idea.
Yup. I mean their idea of some sort of united states of europe wont be achievable for a long long time anyway, but their ideas for Germany for now are perfectly in line with what i want.
edit: btw i only stumbled upon them because of the whole wahl-o-mat problem back then when Volt pointed out that its unfair for small parties since you could only compare like 4 or 5 parties back then. That made me compare Volt with the other big parties when it came back online and they were a perfect match for me. So they were totally right.
I really hope not because Germany needs RRG. For The Linke to push SPD and Grüne slightly to the left, to pressure them on arms sales and most importantly to establish Die Linke as a legit, democratic party in the mainstream. People need to lose their fear of Die Linke and 4 years of governing without Germany turning to a communist red state would do that and legitimize them
I invite everybody to take a look at "Lanz" from yesterday. Most of the time it is Edmund Stoiber yelling at clouds, but there was also Marcel Fratzscher present. Professor for Makroeconomy in Berlin. He gives his opinion on the plan and trickle-down-economics proposed by CDU and FDP. Spoiler: It's bs in his opinion and only helps the super rich to move money out of the country.
He also talks about retirement, minimum wage and a couple more important topics. Please watch.
It start at: 26:16
35:44
43:08
57:01
It's 13 minutes to watch in total and you have to skip around, but the small videomarks in the timeline will help you navigate.
Markus Lanz
Markus Lanz spricht in seiner Talkshow mit seinen Gästen über aktuelle und gesellschaftlich relevante Themen - unterhaltend und journalistisch hintergründig.
Honestly, I don't. Not anymore after Trump, AfD and the rise of nationalism all around the globe.
I learned to hide in plain sight and adopted my strategy. Changed my surname into something German sounding so that my children can have a fresh, unbiased start. On paper I'm no longer identifiable as an immigrant and so are my children. It's my (slight) accent that gives me away to this very day. But now people think I'm from Austria as even my accent adopted over time. I do not correct them, unless it is really needed.
Fortunately that's not a problem for the next generation though. They do not even know that they are hiding.
And just to make one thing clear: I am only able to hide because I am white. Other immigrants? Hell, that strategy will never work out.
Mankind thinks in categories. That's how our brain works. This is a house, this is a cat, this is a dog, this is somebody with a different color, a funny name, an accent.
This will never change, it is hardcoded.
But as said, PLEASE, enough thread derailing. You want to keep on talking. PM me.
The 2 million house comment by stoiber almost made me spat out my food lol
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