German far right surges in regional elections

[Xando]

And again, none of this is an excuse to vote Nazis. It is, indeed, very fucking comparable to the US 2016 elections and the bullshit excuses Trump voters made up.

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Except this isn't any excuse but very publicly available data. Most of the people voting AFD were non voters before because no one pretended to care about their local issues.

People need to stop culling every argument of these people because they voted for nazis (I'm a green voter myself). They have very real issues non of the established parties cared about solving (Not that the AFD will do it but atleast they pretend to listen).

We had the same arguments a decade ago when east germany voted Linke and everyone freaked out and was calling east germans communists.

 

[Alice]

No, you are not. But definitely politically misinformed.

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What are you, exactly, when voting for a party that makes the entirety of their politics out of racism and hatred?

Except this isn't any excuse but very publicly available data. Most of the people voting AFD were non voters before because no one pretended to care about their local issues.

People need to stop culling every argument of these people because they voted for nazis (I'm a green voter myself). They have very real issues non of the established parties cared about solving (Not that the AFD will do it but atleast they pretend to listen).

We had the same arguments a decade ago when east germany voted Linke and everyone freaked out and was calling east germans communists.

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Funny, I could say the exact same about the areas in America that went to bat for Trump.

Nothing excuses voting actual fucking Nazis. Nothing at all.

 

[bane833]

Easily replaced? You have no idea how painful this transition is for the people that actually live in these areas.

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It's only painful because the CDU ( and SPD to an extend) does fuck all to improve the situation. The investment in green energy is laughable, as is the whole austerity bullshit Merkel is pulling.
This is not the green parties fault though and people constantly blaming them for everything are uneducated morons.

 

[Astandahl]

Not surprised at all by this.

 

[Metal B]

No, you are not. But definitely politically misinformed.

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No, you are not politically misinformed, there are a lot of information out there. You just shout your eyes on purpose and became a Nazi-Sympathizer.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

Except this isn't remotely comparable considering the very german scenario.

Most east german companies were closed by the west german treuhand which lead to mass exodus and mass unemployment in the east which in return results in areas without any public transportation, no phone signal, no internet, no doctors etc.

Let's not forget this country has basically stopped large public investment 15 years ago and CDU/SPD now have to feel the results for their inaction.
Also considering most coal jobs are in east germany is it really suprising they vote for the only party that wants to stop the end of coal mines?

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None of this would justify voting for Nazis, though. Not even out of protest.
Apart from that, if you look at the pools, the topic thats considered most important among AfD voters is refugees.
They are fucking racists and vote for Nazis because they are Nazis themselves. It's as easy as that.

 

[mugurumakensei]

And again, none of this is an excuse to vote Nazis. It is, indeed, very fucking comparable to the US 2016 elections and the bullshit excuses Trump voters made up.

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Right down to wanting to bring coal mining jobs back.

 

[Xando]

None of this would justify voting for Nazis, though. Not even out of protest.
Apart from that, if you look at the pools, the topic thats considered most important among AfD voters is refugees.
They are fucking racists and vote for Nazis because they are Nazis themselves. It's as easy as that.

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Calling 2 million people nazis is not the solution but i guess it flys nice on the internet.

 

[Deleted member 10612]

Vote the piraten partei or some other obscure shit if you are hell bend on protest voting (for real), voting AfD is done for racist reasons. "Bikini statt Burka" is as transparent of a slogan as can be. The time for arguing in good faith is over, just look at the UK or the US and how much that was working out for them :/
Yes people feel pissed of, but its the same state of mind where Germany was once before - always easy to point at a certain group of people and tell yourself they are the problem.

I visited the countryside couple weeks ago, in Zwiesel a restaurant owner started small talk with me, where I'm from etc. Once I told him that I'm from Munich he's like " was there a month ago, full of Kanaken .. we lost that City" and I'm a fucking "Kanake" myself. Motherfucker. They don't hide anymore, Trump and that Brexit shit has giving them positive reinforcement.

Calling 2 million people nazis is not the solution but i guess it flys nice on the internet.

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How fast have we forgotten that PEGIDA bullshit.

 

[Veliladon]

Calling 2 million people nazis is not the solution but i guess it flys nice on the internet.

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Well we made the opposite mistake in 1933 so we might be a tad jumpy.

 

[Alice]

Calling 2 million people nazis is not the solution but i guess it flys nice on the internet.

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Go ahead and solve it then. People who peddle this "calling them Nazis is bad you guys, they just have economic anxiety!!" never actually talked to any of these people. Go ahead, go do it. I'll wait for you to count how many Krötas and Schwarzgrünversifft you'll have to listen to without achieving jack shit.

You're "defending" people who voted a party with a campaign entirely made up of hate speech. Trump's campaign was actually tame compared to the shit AfD throws out there.

 

[Sabin]

Calling 2 million people nazis is not the solution but i guess it flys nice on the internet.

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They are still enabling actual nazis. Doesn't matter to me if half them aren't nazis.

My wife got to hear lot more casual racism in the last couple of years and she is just asian. It's even worse for the muslim population.

So fuck the AFD and everyone who votes for them.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

Calling 2 million people nazis is not the solution but i guess it flys nice on the internet.

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What do people have to do to be considered Nazis?
What do you think the people who voted NSDAP back in the late 1920s and early 1930s were?
A Nazi is a nationalist first and foremost. Its really not that high of a threshold.
Conceptualizing Nazis as this grotesque evil is a dangerous misrepresentation. Nazis are mostly relatively normal people with very dangerous thoughts about what constitutes the group they identify with and care about.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

This is so immature and part of the problem. Nobody cared for those forgotten people in east Germany and then all of sudden they are all nazis because they voted in protest.

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You could say the same thing about voters in Rust Belt in the US who voted for Trump but we don't give them the benefit of the doubt

 

[Benjamin1981]

God damn...the left voting people in this thread are just ignorant as the nazis. Just black and white with no shades of color in between.

 

[Xando]

Go ahead and solve it then. People who peddle this "calling them Nazis is bad you guys, they just have economic anxiety!!" never actually talked to any of these people. Go ahead, go do it. I'll wait for you to count how many Krötas and Schwarzgrünversifft you'll have to listen to without achieving jack shit.

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I'm not chancellor so unfortunately i can't change it. It seems pretty simple though. Start a public invest program for all kinds of infrastructure and energy(not only for east germany but for all of germany) investment. Reform public transportation. Give local communities a debt cut and offer tax breaks for companies settling in weak economic areas. It'll still take years but atleast something will be done.

We have so much money to give away to the car industry and banks but let everything else rot.


Also guess which areas in west germany have the highest AFD voter share? Are those all nazis too?

 

[Veliladon]

God damn...the left voting people in this thread are just ignorant as the nazis. Just black and white with no shades of color in between.

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I mean come on guys, we could only kill some of the jews, we could only kill jews and leave the gays and mentally disabled alone. There's loads of compromise to be had here!

 

[Taikeny]

If Germany forgets, we're fucked

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west germany won't forget. being some right wing nazi fucks is kind of expected of east germany though. just yesterday (or today) some security person for the football match of dynamo dresden was seen rocking a t-shirt with a ss-skull on it. east germany is fucked.

 

[Alice]

I'm not chancellor so unfortunately i can't change it. It seems pretty simple though. Start a public invest program for all kinds of infrastructure and energy(not only for east germany but for all of germany) investment. Reform public transportation. Give local communities a debt cut and offer tax breaks for companies settling in weak economic areas. It'll still take years but atleast something will be done.

We have so much money to give away to the car industry and banks but let everything else rot.

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Yeah, you never talked to any of those people or have even been to East Germany. Protip: The economic anxiety scapegoat you fell for isn't the real reason why people are voting for Nazis, and the problem isn't "simply solved", because it's goddamn been there since the beginning of the last century.

 

[Chairmanchuck (另一个我)]

God damn...the left voting people in this thread are just ignorant as the nazis. Just black and white with no shades of color in between.

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How do you know for what party people in this thread voted? I never voted Linke. I usually vote SPD/Grüne.

Also guess which areas in west germany have the highest AFD voter share? Are those all nazis too?

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They are enabling right wingers.

They literally vote for a party that said to shoot kids at the border. SHOOTING KIDS!
They vote for a party that is against gay marriage. (Page 41. AfD Grundsatzprogramm)
They vote for a party that wants the traditional "marriage" where the wife is cooking and the man goes to work. (Page 41. AfD Grundsatzprogramm)
They vote for a party that is against abortion. (Page 44. AfD Grundsatzprogramm).

https://www.afd.de/grundsatzprogramm/

They literally vote for a right wing party.

 

[Xando]

Yeah, you never talked to any of those people or have even been to East Germany. Protip: The economic anxiety scapegoat you fell for isn't the real reason why people are voting for Nazis, and the problem isn't "simply solved", because it's goddamn been there since the beginning of the last century.

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My family actually is from east germany but go ahead and call everyone nazi.

 

[Veliladon]

west germany won't forget. being some right wing nazi fucks is kind of expected of east germany though. just yesterday (or today) some security person for the football match of dynamo dresden was seen rocking a t-shirt with a ss-skull on it. east germany is fucked.

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Bring back the Stasi for a bit and remind them of the value of liberal democracy.

 

[Benjamin1981]

I mean come on guys, we could only kill some of the jews, we could only kill jews and leave the gays and mentally disabled alone. There's loads of compromise to be had here!

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Dude, come on now. Don't be stupid.

 

[Alice]

My family actually is from east germany but go ahead and call everyone nazi.

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Go ahead and make excuses for people voting a party that uses Racism and Hatred for their campaign. This is about AfD voters, and not east Germans, by the way, stop trying to turn that around simply because people have no love for the economic anxiety shit excuse.

Certainly great people. They're just scared of the future, really. And yeah, it doesn't matter if they're from east or west Germany, someone who votes for AfD is a fucking Nazi.

 

[Veliladon]

Dude, come on now. Don't be stupid.

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One side wants to dehumanize, other side believes (or at least pays lip service to) the notion of equality. Why is that up for compromise? Tolerance is a peace treaty not a suicide pact.

 

[Deleted member 14663]

As long as Merkel is out, it's fine by me. That woman has caused so much damage to Europe and Germany.

 

[KeinPlanB]

You could say the same thing about voters in Rust Belt in the US who voted for Trump but we don't give them the benefit of the doubt

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Coal miners in the US and Germany have the same problem - they are selfish. They are voting for/clinging to something that is wrong. I worked for a publishing house that wasn't able to transition to modern times. Lost my job, which is always bad, but that doesn't mean I would vote for a party that promises to rescue my job by subsidizing dying print media.

 

[Xando]

Go ahead and make excuses for people voting a party that uses Racism and Hatred for their campaign.

Certainly great people. They're just scared of the future, really.

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I'm not making any excuses for them but there is scientific proof that areas hit the worst by demographic change and lack of investment have the highest AFD voter share. Are you saying this is a coincidence? Why is it the same in west germany?

 

[Deleted member 10612]

My family actually is from east germany but go ahead and call everyone nazi.

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Just those that voted for the AfD.

 

[KeinPlanB]

As long as Merkel is out, it's fine by me. That woman has caused so much damage to Europe and Germany.

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Yeah, every alternative is better than warhawk Hillary

 

[Alice]

I'm not making any excuses for them but there is scientific proof that areas hit the worst by demographic change and lack of investment have the highest AFD voter share. Are you saying this is a coincidence? Why is it the same in west germany?

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Your "scientific proof" is bullshit, because you use it to make excuses for people who vote literal Nazis.

 

[Kyougar]

What are you, exactly, when voting for a party that makes the entirety of their politics out of racism and hatred?
Funny, I could say the exact same about the areas in America that went to bat for Trump.
Nothing excuses voting actual fucking Nazis. Nothing at all.

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If you think those voters are lost to the nazis, nothing will change and the nazis will get more support.

If you are an intelligent person, you will address the issues of those voters that has nothing to do with right-wing ideology and you will reclaim those voters.

 

[Alice]

If you think those voters are lost to the nazis, nothing will change and the nazis will get more support.

If you are an intelligent person, you will address the issues of those voters that has nothing to do with right-wing ideology and you will reclaim those voters.

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Go talk to them then. Go "reclaim" them. Godspeed, I know you'll fail. I've been at this shit for over 30 years, and I've talked to more than enough people who simply care for NOTHING but for someone/something who confirms their hatred.

 

[Veliladon]

Coal miners in the US and Germany have the same problem - they are selfish. They are voting for/clinging to something that is wrong. I worked for a publishing house that wasn't able to transition to modern times. Lost my job, which is always bad, but that doesn't mean I would vote for a party that promises to rescue my job by subsidizing dying print media.

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It's not even that they're selfish. Most of these people just want to earn a comfortable living and live in peace. They can't do that. They're pissed off, the problems are incredibly complicated, the people who caused them have money, status, power, and some asshole who wants their shot at power comes along telling them it's the fault of brown people or jewish people or gay people and their limbic system is telling them it feels right.

 

[Chairmanchuck (另一个我)]

If you are an intelligent person, you will address the issues of those voters that has nothing to do with right-wing ideology and you will reclaim those voters.

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What if those people think the issues all stem from immigration and "multiculturalism"?

 

[Benjamin1981]

Coal miners in the US and Germany have the same problem - they are selfish. They are voting for/clinging to something that is wrong. I worked for a publishing house that wasn't able to transition to modern times. Lost my job, which is always bad, but that doesn't mean I would vote for a party that promises to rescue my job by subsidizing dying print media.

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But imagine being older, having to pay off a mortgage and maybe lacking the skills / education for these new jobs. It's a real problem.

 

[Xando]

Your "scientific proof" is bullshit, because you use it to make excuses for people who vote literal Nazis.

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Alright so now facts are bullshit. I guess you aren't that far away from AFD voters.

I don't really see a point in continuing to argue with you if your only argument is 'they're nazis'. You need to actually win those people back or the country will be fucked when the next economic crisis hits.

But i guess it will all be fine as long as we call them nazis.

 

[samoyed]

I agree with Xando in so far as these voters weren't born Nazis or whatever you want to call them. They just didn't have a lot of options from within their narrow worldview so they grew up to vote AfD. If you want to change it, you need to improve those areas' conditions so they spend more time living a fulfilling life and less time voting for the alt-right.

"Knowing better" than to vote for alt-right parties is not something you're born with, but something you're taught, by those around you and by society.

 

[Alice]

Alright so now facts are bullshit. I guess you aren't that far away from AFD voters.

I don't really see a point in continuing to argue with you if your only argument is 'they're nazis'. You need to actually win those people back or the country will be fucked when the next economic crisis hits.

But i guess it will all be fine as long as we call them nazis.

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I like how you keep arguing facts and logic, but can't even be bothered to read what I say. Good job.

Again, you're the one making excuses for people voting for Nazis. For people voting for a party that does *nothing* to present solutions for people, but plays with Racism and Hatred for their *entire campaign*.

Is that so hard to realize, or even think about? It feels like you're arguing entirely out of bad faith to make excuses for these people, while entirely ignoring what the AfD actually *does* and *promises* these people. Hint: it's nothing productive. And it has nothing to do with solving their actual problems you have "scientific proof" for.

 

[Xando]

I agree with Xando in so far as these voters weren't born Nazis or whatever you want to call them. They just didn't have a lot of options from within their narrow worldview so they grew up to vote AfD. If you want to change it, you need to improve those areas' conditions so they spend more time living a fulfilling life and less time voting for the alt-right.

"Knowing better" than to vote for alt-right parties is not something you're born with, but something you're taught, by those around you and by society.

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Agreed. Let's not forget almost all of these people lived through communist education and never went through the denazification process the west went through.

Most east germans never had the free of ideology education the west had.

 

[Qikz]

Right wing politicians over the last 100 years have played a blinder.

The only people who support right wing politics are the rich and the poorest who are uneducated. The poorest are the ones fucked the most by right wing politics but they keep voting for it, because they get persuaded by the media that it's someone elses fault their poor and not the very same rich people they vote alongside.

 

[Veliladon]

"Knowing better" than to vote for alt-right parties is not something you're born with, but something you're taught, by those around you and by society.

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I feel like we just finished teaching it. Reunification is still in living memory for 50% of the populace. "Let's give facism another go" shouldn't be thought of as a good idea by anyone.

 

[Randam]

Yeah, there is large protest vote potential in the East and that used to go to the far left former DDR party "Die Linke". They are very liberal towards immigration though, so the votes wouldn't make sense after the immigration crisis. Now with the AFD we have a protest party that is a better fit for East German sensibilities. Protest and anti immigration.

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Die Linke has nothing to do with the immigration "crisis" of the last few years.
That were the CDU with the SPD.

 

[Benjamin1981]

I like how you keep arguing facts and logic, but can't even be bothered to read what I say. Good job.

Again, you're the one making excuses for people voting for Nazis. For people voting for a party that does *nothing* to present solutions for people, but plays with Racism and Hatred for their *entire campaign*.

Is that so hard to realize, or even think about? It feels like you're arguing entirely out of bad faith to make excuses for these people, while entirely ignoring what the AfD actually *does* and *promises* these people. Hint: it's nothing productive. And it has nothing to do with solving their actual problems you have "scientific proof" for.

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So why didn't these Nazis voted NPD in past elections in the same numbers they voted AFD today? Most of the Nazis stayed at home on election day i presume. You are just as ignorant as the Nazis.

 

[Alice]

Don't call them Nazis, it's just lacking education and perspective that makes them vote for xenophobic, racist, hateful and vile slogans!

Because the AfD offers *all* the solutions. Anyone who has actually listened to what they preach on their rallies, would know that everything the AfD offers these "poor people" is destructive promises of making Merkel go away, making immigrants go away, and ignoring climate change. Nothing productive is EVER offered or talked about. But hey, their voters are still fine, albeit misunderstood people (TM).

 

[Bedlam]

I'm not making any excuses for them but there is scientific proof that areas hit the worst by demographic change and lack of investment have the highest AFD voter share. Are you saying this is a coincidence? Why is it the same in west germany?

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...le-more-likely-to-share-fake-news-on-facebook

Go figure. Older people are more susceptible to fake news and populist lies.

I live in East Germany and sometimes visit my parents who live in a rural area. The people in these parts of the country are massively uninformed, gobble up right-wing propaganda like icecream and share that shit with glee. Voting for the AfD has become matter of pride among village communities. They also have an injustice-complex; unwarranted of course because most of them are rather well off and haven't seen an immigrant with their own eyes yet. They got tricked into believing that brown people are the cause for their various miseries and at the same time don't have the foresight to see that they push young people with a brain even further away from these areas with their votes for the AfD.

Another reason for AfD votes is that people feel the big parties (CDU mostly, and SPD) have failed them after having been loyal voters for decades. There is some truth to this at least.

 

[Chairmanchuck (另一个我)]

So why didn't these Nazis voted NPD in past elections in the same numbers they voted AFD today? Most of the Nazis stayed at home on election day i presume. You are just as ignorant as the Nazis.

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Refugee crisis?

It is pretty clear why they are voting for AfD today. All the other problems like infrastructural problems, society problems, income disparity etc. existed in the eastern states long before it. The only thing that changed was the influx of refugees.

 

[Schreckstoff]

Democracy has failed

 

[Randam]

You are totally missing the point. These people have far simpler problems like no public transportation, no doctors, no schools. These people don't vote AFD because they are against gay marriage or muslims or renewable energy. These people in large chunks vote in protest because the political Berlin lives in a bubble and doesn't care about actual problems.

Don't get me wrong, the AFD is the worst and doesn't have any solutions. But to say that every voter is a Nazi is just plain wrong.

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So what are the actual problems there and is there no other party that wants to do something about it?

 

[Sweeney Swift]

If Germany forgets, we're fucked

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We're fucked regardless. Losing the world to Nazism except for one country, or losing the whole world