I welcome it. Maybe EA will move their ass and stop this lootbox BS. Not a bad thing that they decided it.
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German Bundestag passes new Youth Protection Act (lootboxes will lead to an age rating of 18)
- Thread starter chroeser
- Start date
I know that age ratings are not set by the Bundestag, they are set by the USK, after playing and testing games on a game per game basis.
Of course the USK follows given guidelines.
Maybe i missunderstood the OP. I had the impression that the Bundestag passed a law that makes lootboxes 18+.
Excellent. Without wanting to be a broken record - this is how this shit should be handled. Without arguing back and forth about how it should be considered gambling (which just means nothing happens because it's really easy to just say 'no, it doesn't meet the terminology of gambling'.
Tieing this argument to 'literally gambling so treat it the same' for so long has constantly been a dead end for this conversation. It's too easily redutable. The only way lootbox/surprise mechanic (lol) restrictions get taken seriously is to move away from that mindset and treat them as their own evil that is exploiting kids and concentrate on that rather than whether we should be extended what our current gambling laws allow or not.
Tieing this argument to 'literally gambling so treat it the same' for so long has constantly been a dead end for this conversation. It's too easily redutable. The only way lootbox/surprise mechanic (lol) restrictions get taken seriously is to move away from that mindset and treat them as their own evil that is exploiting kids and concentrate on that rather than whether we should be extended what our current gambling laws allow or not.
Interesting:
If your game/movie has less than 1 million users in germany it is not affected by the law.
Basically you have to enter your ID details to prove you're 18 or older.
If your game/movie has less than 1 million users in germany it is not affected by the law.
Sony does something like this in germany when purchasing on PSN.
Basically you have to enter your ID details to prove you're 18 or older.
I've been arguing that loot boxes should be treated as gambling in terms of rating for a while (which under ESRB would make them AO), so this seems like a great step in the right direction.
That is about cybergrooming.
Lets say you have a "little" online forum with less then 1 million users, then you don't have to play "police" against cybergrooming.
If you have an online forum with more then 1 million users you are responsible to fight cybergrooming.
No it's not about cybergrooming.
Film- und Spielplattformen sind Diensteanbieter, die Filme oder Spielprogramme in einem Gesamtangebot zusammenfassen und mit Gewinnerzielungsabsicht als eigene Inhalte zum individuellen Abruf zu einem von den Nutzerinnen und Nutzern gewählten Zeitpunkt bereithalten. Film- und Spielplattformen nach Satz 1 dürfen einen Film oder ein Spielprogramm nur bereithalten, wenn sie gemäß den Altersstufen des § 14 Absatz 2 mit einer entsprechenden deutlich wahrnehmbaren Kennzeichnung versehen sind,
Most likely only after a Age Verification. Wonder how they implement that tho, better something harder than the "age verification" on the PSN for 18+ demos/games in germany.
AINAL, but AFAICT they are talking about gaming or movie platforms, not individual games/movies. It doesn't matter how many users your game/movie has, the total amount of users (or user accounts then probably) of the store/platform that offers it is what counts.
It reads like this but i could see EA argue Fifa is a plattform because it sells content within the game.
This could lead to some interesting happenings where you have different versions with UT on PC but not on console for example.
As a doctor on GP lootbox addiction is usually classified as gambling, but with a much harder time to evict Tha chances of someone wasting their life on them.
After all how do you block someone from getting a free g mail and a phone to play those games?
Straying away from Germany a bit here, but PEGI (which Germany does not use) has a rating indicator for in-game depictions of gambling. Whether it's applied depends on how closely the gambling mechanic in the game resembles real-world gambling - anything that encourages gambling or teaches gambling has that rating indicator applied. The gambling label has historically resulted in a minimum age of PEGI 12 (Stardew Valley, for example, is a PEGI 12 game with the only label applied being "Gambling"). Sometime in 2020 PEGI guidelines were changed and for any newly-rated games, inclusion of simulated gambling is now an automatic PEGI 18.
This scene from Aladdin probably would not qualify (since the only mechanic seems to be "spin a wheel to see what you get", there doesn't seem to be a player payment that I can see, it's set outside any kind of casino-like environment, and the "game" is mechanically quite distinct from roulette). Any re-release of an older game that includes something like a slot machine or poker simulation or similar is likely going to get a PEGI 18 though.
The USK (and some other rating boards worldwide) probably have broadly similar guidelines, and it has definitely resulted in some re-releases of older games getting higher ratings than many people might expect as a result of things like casino areas or minigames that simulated gambling.
It's gambling. Are you familiar with gambling?
There's plenty of research into that.
When these fuckers study the psychology of gambling to hook children into paying money into their shitty skinner boxes, then it's gambling.
They're just gonna sell the FUT stuff as an extra DLC as a form of age verification on PSN.
Won't change a lot, but it's a great start. Now let Twitch ban those "We open up 50k of Pokemon cards" streams that make kids crazy too.
Aren't those threads we have on here about parents trying to get their money back not enough? In FIFAs case it's even worse than gambling. You can get your cool team card and it will be useless the next year.
Aren't those threads we have on here about parents trying to get their money back not enough? In FIFAs case it's even worse than gambling. You can get your cool team card and it will be useless the next year.
Yeah, thats the Reason the Pokemon Remakes removed the Gambling halls for example, so they can still get them a PEGI 3 or equivalent rating.
We have our own video game rating organisation in Germany.
Unterhaltungssoftware Selbstkontrolle - Wikipedia
The USK will test it again (after the patch), which will result in an USK 18 rating. They will seize all USK 0 copies or the publisher will have to put stickers over all retail boxes. Heavy fines are 100% guaranteed.
We have our own video game rating organisation in Germany.
Unterhaltungssoftware Selbstkontrolle - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
The USK will test it again (after the patch), which will result in an USK 18 rating. They will seize all USK 0 copies and fine the publisher.
They could sell it (FUT/Access to Lootboxes in general) as a Paid DLC thats rated USK18 tho. CA does the same for the Gore dlc in Total War games, so the base game gets a nice USK12 rating.
I am not sure if you know, but buying 18+ things on German PSN is pretty damn annoying. You have to get your ID or passport and put in all of that information. If you misstype it you have to do that shit again.
You also have to do that every single time which got me to the point that I stopped buying a game I wanted to buy because it took me 20 minutes already. So could be a small stop for some parents. Kids would need to get their parents ID and do it and I am not sure that every parent would go through with this.
Paying for the Option to pay more. Sounds like something EA and other Studios would do. :D
So what is stopping EA from making Ultimate team a free/very cheap age-restricted DLC to Fifa now so that they can keep their low age rating?
Would be the same tactic as Activison with their microtransactions, patching them in after the fact.
I guess this will also be enforced on Gacha phone games right?
All in all I welcome it.
Would be the same tactic as Activison with their microtransactions, patching them in after the fact.
I guess this will also be enforced on Gacha phone games right?
All in all I welcome it.
If the older brother, neighbor, friend, grandma, parent buys the retail copy and gives it to 10 year old Tim, he will definitely play it tho. 10 year old Tim could also use his dads credit card/ Paypal and ID to buy the game online.
Bit naive considering all the 13yr olds playing COD or GTA. In the normal world the effect of this will be very limited.
Parents will start asking questions if FIFA has a USK18 sticker on it. Any sane parent is not buying that stuff for their children, a lot at the moment dont even know that there is gambling in Fifa...
Should have a USK18 rating and sticker on the box (also retroactively) if DLC gets released that contains gambling. Give these companies no air to breath in this matter.
Indeed the lootboxes/ gacha in itself would not be ilegal, only impossible to buy without parents. It also targets impulse transactions first: like kid watches a stream where someone get's a 5 star something and decides to roll till the same result.
Good and I hope this spreads elsewhere. 2k and EA have turned damn near every sports game franchise into a jank ass casino. Get fucked
There are always ways around rules, doesn't mean they have no effect.
Good idea, but probably has some workarounds.
However, entirely banning lootbox-games that use real money in any way (purchasing lootboxes directly via real money or using real money to buy in-game currency to buy lootboxes) would completely fix this problem and not a single consumer would complain about it (I'd like to see the logic of who would say otherwise from consumer viewpoint). Of course companies, publishers and shareholders are against this but that's their fault of incorporating the idea of these type of games in the first place.
However, entirely banning lootbox-games that use real money in any way (purchasing lootboxes directly via real money or using real money to buy in-game currency to buy lootboxes) would completely fix this problem and not a single consumer would complain about it (I'd like to see the logic of who would say otherwise from consumer viewpoint). Of course companies, publishers and shareholders are against this but that's their fault of incorporating the idea of these type of games in the first place.
I bet EA will work out something with MS and Sony to provide UT as free dlc. I doubt Sony and MS want to lose their UT cut. I'm sure they'll make advantage of a technicality.
You'd be surprised... Fifa Ultimate Team videos are always trending on YouTube and there are people on this forum defend them all the time.
You'd be surprised... Fifa Ultimate Team videos are always trending on YouTube and there are people on this forum defend them all the time.
To be perfectly honest, at this point I'm not surprised by anything.
Sony damanding some ID checkup is all on their own. No other storefront here in Germany demands this. Heck, they even have selfmade age-rating logos on their PSN cards, that look kinda like a USK rating.
The USK rates games based on their own set guiding criteria, based on the Youth protection act and the Youth Media Protection State Treaty in collaboration with the BPJM. A tester plays the entire game and shows curcial stuff in front of media experts (they can't be employed in the gaming industry) and there the age rating will be decided.
The same thing happens with a new added content in a game, just in a smaller scale.
And the USK ratings are legally binding to every store, to sell them only to people old enough. So yes, your parents can still buy their children their 18+ game, but it with being 18+ makes it harder to advertise
The new act doesn't specifically mention stuff like gambling in §10b (page 8)
But in the Justification part of this new act/law (page 19) are the reasons listed, why and what they change, based on which data, studies and other new laws since last time. First the justifications in general in Part A (page 19) and then more specific to the changed paragraphs in Part B (page 41). Both of em are important so you can interpret the law correctly. And in part B "Lootboxes" are mentioned. And since the USK created their own guiding criteria based on this law, this will have a direct impact in upcoming games, once this law comes into effect,
The USK rates games based on their own set guiding criteria, based on the Youth protection act and the Youth Media Protection State Treaty in collaboration with the BPJM. A tester plays the entire game and shows curcial stuff in front of media experts (they can't be employed in the gaming industry) and there the age rating will be decided.
The same thing happens with a new added content in a game, just in a smaller scale.
And the USK ratings are legally binding to every store, to sell them only to people old enough. So yes, your parents can still buy their children their 18+ game, but it with being 18+ makes it harder to advertise
The new act doesn't specifically mention stuff like gambling in §10b (page 8)
But in the Justification part of this new act/law (page 19) are the reasons listed, why and what they change, based on which data, studies and other new laws since last time. First the justifications in general in Part A (page 19) and then more specific to the changed paragraphs in Part B (page 41). Both of em are important so you can interpret the law correctly. And in part B "Lootboxes" are mentioned. And since the USK created their own guiding criteria based on this law, this will have a direct impact in upcoming games, once this law comes into effect,
Then we should have a study that it is NOT unhealthy FIRST.
Do we really want that for everything?
This is a preemptive reaction to threats by the Landesmedienanstalten and thus not really true that nobody demands it. They have been forcing more and more storefronts to comply with youth protection laws and if they wouldn't, they could receive network bans. A couple examples of what the Landesmedienanstalten were responsible for:
- Ubisoft restricting 18+ purchases between 11pm and 6am.
- Rockstar Launcher introducing an ID verification system for 18+ games.
- Sony introducing an ID verification system on Playstation consoles for 18+ games.
- YouTube introducing Credit Card or ID/passport verification for 18+ content (currently in test stage).
- multiple store fronts using Postident to verify age and identity.