George RR Martin on GOT Prequel: House of the Dragon

[Biske]

It's impressive that after the train wreck of the show they still wanna go through with more GOT.

I get how hugely popular it was and all, but legit not a single person I know who watched the show, which most of them are dead ass regular free folk non jackass nerd types, hate the show by the end of it and were extremely disappointed.

I mean even aside from all that, knowing where they took the white walkers how could they ever think a prequel would light people on fire when they handled it so shit-tacularly.

 

[Lunar Wolf]

It's impressive that after the train wreck of the show they still wanna go through with more GOT.

I get how hugely popular it was and all, but legit not a single person I know who watched the show, which most of them are dead ass regular free folk non jackass nerd types, hate the show by the end of it and were extremely disappointed.

I mean even aside from all that, knowing where they took the white walkers how could they ever think a prequel would light people on fire when they handled it so shit-tacularly.

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Because it'll make bank either way.

It's all about $$$$

 

[Kahoots]

Even at its best GOT wasn't well paced, the ensemble was just too wide. They should tell this primarily from the perspective of Daemon and Aemond. Might need some name changes too.

 

[SteveMeister]

One way is set each season in a particular time period. It would suck if you found a breakout character like Tyrion and had to get rid of them however.

Another is to quickly go through the early stuff and set the bulk of the series closer to the dance of dragons, people will still get older(think the Vikings show) but you won't have to keep changing out the entire cast.

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Yeah, I was thinking the latter myself. It's the best part of the book.

 

[Speevy]

Game of Thrones is a very unlikely success story. It would have been a hard thing to sell if it had ended well, but having ended poorly, I see virtually no chance of this new series lasting beyond a few seasons.

 

[Biske]

Because it'll make bank either way.

It's all about $$$$

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Will it thought? I'm not talking about fellow nerds who hated the show, but regular old house wives of the stripes of "books are for idiots and a waste of my time" every person I know in that category was burned so hard by the series, this new show will have to be truly great to be people over that sour taste and into the show.

I think just the time factor and the nature of these huge moments, its never going to take hold like it did before, even if they hadn't shit the bed.

 

[Neece]

Even at its best GOT wasn't well paced, the ensemble was just too wide. They should tell this primarily from the perspective of Daemon and Aemond. Might need some name changes too.

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I definitely think we're in store for a lot of name changes.

 

[QuigleyMcShine]

Honestly I'd be fine if he writes a few episodes before finishing the next book, because at least those will happen.

 

[unicornKnight]

It's impressive that after the train wreck of the show they still wanna go through with more GOT.

I get how hugely popular it was and all, but legit not a single person I know who watched the show, which most of them are dead ass regular free folk non jackass nerd types, hate the show by the end of it and were extremely disappointed.

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I hated season 8 but I want more GoT. Actually I want a better closure so that makes me want another series even more. If the series had ended as high as it started maybe I'd be against doing another one.

 

[FaceHugger]

 

[El Bombastico]

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Whoever operates this account is doing God's work...

 

[Jacob4815]

Sapochnik said in an interview that he wanted to kill every character in 8x03.

I'm very interested to Miguel as a showrunner.

 

[Pikelet]

Will it thought? I'm not talking about fellow nerds who hated the show, but regular old house wives of the stripes of "books are for idiots and a waste of my time" every person I know in that category was burned so hard by the series, this new show will have to be truly great to be people over that sour taste and into the show.

I think just the time factor and the nature of these huge moments, its never going to take hold like it did before, even if they hadn't shit the bed.

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It has an extremely good chance of being extremely successful, regardless of how poorly received the last season was.

There's never any sure-things in these sorts of projects, but a sequel series to the global phenomenon that was GOT is as close to a safe bet as you can get. It's the most sought-after prestige show in the world, people are going to be hyped as fuck when the trailer drops.

 

[denx]

Man I'd love a Dunk & Egg show.

I'll take this Dance of Dragons show tho.

 

[Lunar Wolf]

Based on the fact that GRRM didn't say to read Sons of the Dragon, I think this might be an adaptation of the Rogue Prince and The Prince & the Queen + a little before and after from Fire and Blood.

I imagine we're going to start at the Great Council of 101 where Viserys and not Rhaenys is chosen as Jaehaerys' heir.

 

[Fubar]

If it were up to me:

S1 starts by leaving Valyria, the destruction, Aegon arrives at Kings Landing to end the episode. Next several episodes taking over. S1 ends with forging of the Iron Throne.

S2 is the mini Dance we had with Maegor the Cruel and eventually setting up Jaehaerys and Alysanne. I need that scene with Pate the Woodcock and Rogar Baratheon. They need to show just how beloved Jaehaerys and Alysanne were. Have at least two episodes dealing with the Shivers epidemic. Corlys must be used very liberally all over the place.

S3 onward is the actual Dance. With however much detail is needed.

 

[The Unsent]

I know this is a lame pun but I hope they get Hugh Laurie in it.

 

[Deleted member 31133]

!!!!!

Oh god we might see it in the next two years, its close y'all

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I'm pretty sure he mentioned that he's off to New Zealand for something next year in around July, and stated that he was confident that Winds would be completed by then. He made a big promise. He pretty much gave permission to be locked up in New Zealand as a prisoner if it wasn't completed by his trip, which is less than 12 months away.

"You have here my formal written permission to imprison me in a small cabin on White Island, overlooking that lake of sulphuric acid, until I'm done," he said.

"Just so long as the acrid fumes do not screw up my old DOS word processor, I'll be fine."

 

[Hayeya]

battle of the bastards is one of the worst episodes of game of thrones and emblematic of the show's issues so this is a bummer

edit: oh God he did Hardhome too 🤢

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What??????

Even non GoT fans watched these episodes in Awe.

Best episodes in all of media in my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 176]

What??????

Even non GoT fans watched these episodes in Awe.

Best episodes in all of media in my opinion.

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I definitely believe that people who weren't fans of the show and didn't really understand what was going on thought it was good

 

[MilkBeard]

Interesting. It will be nice to see the GoT world without Benioff and Weiss involved. Also, the word usage indicates that the next book is not *too* far off, but who knows on that.

 

[Modi]

set a couple of centuries before the events of A SONG OF ICE & FIRE

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[jdstorm]

I'd love the shit out of a Martin written House episode. I miss that show.

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So which Targaryen is getting Lupus?

 

[Deleted member 5127]

I hated season 8 but I want more GoT. Actually I want a better closure so that makes me want another series even more. If the series had ended as high as it started maybe I'd be against doing another one.

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I feel the same way, we will never get that closure tho with prequels, sadly. The books are the only hope for actual closure on the ASOIAF story.

Regardless, I'm super hyped and I hope it's so good that it fills the void GoT left.

 

[Aureon]

I'd love the shit out of a Martin written House episode. I miss that show.

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That's hilariously specific, but god i would too.

No one is asking you to write anything for House....

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Of course they're asking him. It'd be unpolite not to, if anything else.

 

[cj_iwakura]

No one is asking you to write anything for House....

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All his episodes were amazing, though.

 

[Hamchan]

I'm looking forward to this. There's no baggage here, like D&D had where they had to wrap up a story GRRM himself is having trouble wrapping up (not that this excuses D&D for being bad). They can do whatever they want, within reason.

The two showrunners sound good and keen on the world too. I am optimistic.

 

[Blader]

Will it thought? I'm not talking about fellow nerds who hated the show, but regular old house wives of the stripes of "books are for idiots and a waste of my time" every person I know in that category was burned so hard by the series, this new show will have to be truly great to be people over that sour taste and into the show.

I think just the time factor and the nature of these huge moments, its never going to take hold like it did before, even if they hadn't shit the bed.

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The GoT finale was watched by almost 20 million people. Maybe "every person I know" is not a great barometer for determining how much people liked/hated the finale and/or would be excited about a new show...unless you happen to know a hell of a lot of people!

For sure there's no way this or any prequel is going to be the same success story as GoT, even if the finale had nailed a 100% MC score. I've said this before, but Breaking Bad's finale was pretty much loved by all yet Better Call Saul is not pulling viewership numbers anywhere near that show had. FWIW I just quickly scrolled through the GoT twitter handle, and the post announcing House of the Dragon got *way* more likes on it than anything they've posted since or around the finale, so I think it's fair to say there's still a decent amount of interest out there for more GoT.

 

[AzorAhai]

The show was too big and the cast is too strongly associated with the characters for the live series to be remade until at least a few decades.

Since Elden Ring shows that GRRM is ready to work with Japanese talents I'll say it again : remaking GOT as an anime would be the way to go after the books are finished.

No plot to sacrifice. No budget limits for magic. No actors/artists to upset. Many studios ready to tackle these themes. Many fans to delight.


In the meantime... Give me that Martin/Sapochnik greatness!

 

[Falchion]

Glad he's still focused on Winds.

 

[Arkeband]

Ryan wanted to do Dunk and Egg first.

Damn you, GRRM!!!

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I love Dunk and Egg, but they're great because they're bite-sized vignettes and leave a lot up to the reader's imagination.

Until he has written more, there's not enough to fill a season, and I question whether that format is right for those kinds of personal stories.

 

[Biske]

The GoT finale was watched by almost 20 million people. Maybe "every person I know" is not a great barometer for determining how much people liked/hated the finale and/or would be excited about a new show...unless you happen to know a hell of a lot of people!

For sure there's no way this or any prequel is going to be the same success story as GoT, even if the finale had nailed a 100% MC score. I've said this before, but Breaking Bad's finale was pretty much loved by all yet Better Call Saul is not pulling viewership numbers anywhere near that show had. FWIW I just quickly scrolled through the GoT twitter handle, and the post announcing House of the Dragon got *way* more likes on it than anything they've posted since or around the finale, so I think it's fair to say there's still a decent amount of interest out there for more GoT.

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Obviously its anecdotal. But when you work with a bunch of people in the average work place or among your friends there is a very clear main stream sentiment. You have folks who aren't into this or aren't in to that, but something like GOT had such a broad main stream appeal just about everyone is into it. The phenomenon like Breaking Bad, The Walking Dead, The Handmaids tale.

More than anything of the sort, from my experience, towards end of its run and certainly with the finale people hated it. So it goes far beyond a "I loved the books and they fucked it up" thing but they actually managed to do it shitty and end it shitty and now I don't hear shit about GOT unless its a "fuck that show vibe" and when we hear people are going through the series fresh we all wince like "oh yeah its really good.... you'll really enjoy it..." knowing it will take them off a cliff.

The same way The Walking Dead has dropped off a cliff and nobody talks about it and seems to care less and less. Certain things run their course and don't hold up and on top of that rare special moment of catching fire and repeating that success. I just don't think it's going to happen. If it's anything less than STELLAR I can just imagine people will think "ah we know how this will go"

So thats why the whole "developing many GOT spins offs!!!" seems bonkers to me, but obviously yeah they have a ton of good will and notoriety to still burn through.

 

[Heshinsi]

Oh this is a different show than that? I would also assume this show starts in Valyria or at least partially takes place there to begin with considering why the Targaryans went to conquer Westeros.

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Didn't the Targs leave to Dragonstone permanently decades before the Doom, and didn't Aegon conquer Westeros decades after that? That would be quite some time of thumb twiddling before we got to the good stuff lol

Edit: it looks like my use of "decades" is too small of a time scale lol. The Doom of Valyria happened over 100 years before the conquest of Westeros, and the Targ family relocated to Dragonstone a few years before that. Yeah, so we'd have to wade through 100+ years of the Targs chilling Dragonstone before any of the action.

 

[Linus815]

Obviously its anecdotal. But when you work with a bunch of people in the average work place or among your friends there is a very clear main stream sentiment. You have folks who aren't into this or aren't in to that, but something like GOT had such a broad main stream appeal just about everyone is into it. The phenomenon like Breaking Bad, The Walking Dead, The Handmaids tale.

More than anything of the sort, from my experience, towards end of its run and certainly with the finale people hated it. So it goes far beyond a "I loved the books and they fucked it up" thing but they actually managed to do it shitty and end it shitty and now I don't hear shit about GOT unless its a "fuck that show vibe" and when we hear people are going through the series fresh we all wince like "oh yeah its really good.... you'll really enjoy it..." knowing it will take them off a cliff.

The same way The Walking Dead has dropped off a cliff and nobody talks about it and seems to care less and less. Certain things run their course and don't hold up and on top of that rare special moment of catching fire and repeating that success. I just don't think it's going to happen. If it's anything less than STELLAR I can just imagine people will think "ah we know how this will go"

So thats why the whole "developing many GOT spins offs!!!" seems bonkers to me, but obviously yeah they have a ton of good will and notoriety to still burn through.

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TWD took several awful seasons for the viewership to start tanking. GoT had a poor final season, but the "mainstream" only really hated the last 3.
Most importantly, the viewership actually kept rising, not the opposite.

GoT spinoffs will be a huge deal and trying to argue otherwise is just pointless. Then there's the fact that if you look at how other HBO shows perform, even if a spinoff had 1/10th of the audience of GoT, it'd still be considered a huge success for them, just as TWD, despite only pulling 1/8th of their original viewership is still the #1 amc show and still wins sunday nights.

 

[Jag]

Anyone read the 2 anthologies he mentioned. Rogues and Dangerous Women? May be the only 2 GoT thing I haven't read yet.

 

[Reddaye]

We'll end up with two completed television series before he manages to finish the last two books, even if he's not writing anything for the show.

 

[Deleted member 5127]

It's impressive that after the train wreck of the show they still wanna go through with more GOT.

I get how hugely popular it was and all, but legit not a single person I know who watched the show, which most of them are dead ass regular free folk non jackass nerd types, hate the show by the end of it and were extremely disappointed.

I mean even aside from all that, knowing where they took the white walkers how could they ever think a prequel would light people on fire when they handled it so shit-tacularly.

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Because they know it left a void to fill. If it's good it'll most likely become popular.

 

[Galkinator]

battle of the bastards is one of the worst episodes of game of thrones and emblematic of the show's issues so this is a bummer

edit: oh God he did Hardhome too 🤢

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Literally two of the best episodes of the show
Unless you're sarcastic

Miguel as a showrunner is amazing

 

[CountAntonio]

I would love to see that cancled pilot.

 

[DiceHands]

This is all great news. Sad for the cancelled show, but I dont doubt they will revamp it and try it again a few years later. I am ready for more Thrones, despite how S8 went.

 

[Lunar Wolf]

Anyone read the 2 anthologies he mentioned. Rogues and Dangerous Women? May be the only 2 GoT thing I haven't read yet.

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Yep.

I think we're starting from the end of Jaehaerys' reign to the end of the Dance so 30 years of time.

The Rogue Prince:

It tells the story of the years leading up to the calamitous events of The Princess and The Queen during the reign of King Viserys I Targaryen, with particular attention to the role played by the king's brother, Prince Daemon Targaryen, as written by Archmaester Gyldayn.

The novella gives an account of the lives at the court of King Viserys I Targaryen in King's Landing, and about the lives of those connected to House Targaryen, paying special attention to Prince Daemon Targaryen, his niece, and later third wife, Princess Rhaenyra Targaryen and her children, King Viserys I Targaryenand his second wife and the children from his second marriage. The story takes off in 103 AC with the death of King Jaehaerys I, after shortly describing his final two years, and ends in 129 AC, just mere hours before The Princess and the Queen takes off.

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This is Prince Daemon's character description:

Over the centuries, House Targaryen has produced both great men and monsters. Prince Daemon was both. In his day there was not a man so admired, so beloved, and so reviled in all Westeros. He was made of light and darkness in equal parts. To some he was a hero, to others the blackest of villains. No true understanding of that most tragic bloodletting known as the Dance of the Dragons is possible without a consideration of the crucial role played before and during the conflict by this rogue prince.

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The Princess and the Queen:

The Princess and the Queen, or, the Blacks and the Greens - Being A History of the Causes, Origins, Battles, and Betrayals of that Most Tragic Bloodletting Known as the Dance of the Dragons i

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s a history of the Dance of the Dragons. This civil war between blacks and greens took place in Westerosafter the death of King Viserys I Targaryen. The text was written by Archmaester Gyldayn of the Citadel of Oldtown. It uses Munkun's The Dance of the Dragons, A True Telling as a basis, and also includes Septon Eustace as a source. Gyldayn's later history of the Targaryens, Fire & Blood included a revised version of this text, dividing it into five chapters.

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[SolVanderlyn]

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[Mansa Mufasa]

The fact that the showrunner wanted to do Dunk and Egg tells me he isn't just interested in Red Wedding-like violence and shock, but he is actually interested in the world of ASOIAF.

That fact, along with Miguel being attached makes me really excited about who they have running the show.

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This is what I came away with and I think so did GRRM.

 

[Elliott]

 

[Jag]

Yep.

I think we're starting from the end of Jaehaerys' reign to the end of the Dance so 30 years of time.

The Rogue Prince:

[quote{It tells the story of the years leading up to the calamitous events of The Princess and The Queen during the reign of King Viserys I Targaryen, with particular attention to the role played by the king's brother, Prince Daemon Targaryen, as written by Archmaester Gyldayn.

The novella gives an account of the lives at the court of King Viserys I Targaryen in King's Landing, and about the lives of those connected to House Targaryen, paying special attention to Prince Daemon Targaryen, his niece, and later third wife, Princess Rhaenyra Targaryen and her children, King Viserys I Targaryenand his second wife and the children from his second marriage. The story takes off in 103 AC with the death of King Jaehaerys I, after shortly describing his final two years, and ends in 129 AC, just mere hours before The Princess and the Queen takes off.

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Thanks. The Daemon stuff was really interesting in Fire & Blood.

 

[saint]

I definitely believe that people who weren't fans of the show and didn't really understand what was going on thought it was good

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ok but you do realize we're talking about the directing of the episodes not the writing

 

[Glasgow Mega-Snake]

GRRM added some more info about the team behind House of the Dragon on his blog:

Even Aegon the Dragon couldn't conquer the Seven Kingdoms all by himself, however. He needed the help of his sisters Rhaenys and Visenya. Ryan and I had some great assistance as well, and I wanted to give a tip of the crown to three talented and hard-working young writers who helped to bring this one home. WES TOOKE was Ryan's right hand man on COLONY, where he served as an executive producer and wrote thirteen episodes. CLAIRE KIECHEL is a young playwright out of New York who came to HOUSE OF THE DRAGON after stints on Netflix's THE OA and HBO's new WATCHMEN series. TI MIKKEL came to the show from my own Fevre River Packet Company, where she's served as a writer's assistant, helped in the development of a series of short films I hope to produce, and is spearheading the development of TUF VOYAGING as a television series… when she's not working on her own novel.

Those unfamiliar with the way television works may wonder… if Ryan Condal wrote the pilot and the bible, what did Wes and Claire and Ti do? The answer is: a lot. They sat with Ryan every day in a writer's room at HBO for months, talking story, going over drafts, giving notes, correcting errors (not that Ryan or I ever made any, no sir, not us), catching inconsistencies, discussing character and plot, offering ideas and suggestions, filling in gaps, breaking down the episodes to come and drawing up a roadmap for the first season and all the seasons to follow. The HOUSE OF THE DRAGON could never have been built without the help of Ti, Claire, and Wes, three terrific young storytellers. They have my thanks, and Ryan's.

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http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019/11/10/a-tip-o-the-crown/

Sounds like this show will have a bigger writing room than GoT, which can only be a good thing. And it's not just dudes!

Also, a Tuf Voyaging series? I doubt it will happen, the premise of those stories is just too weird, but if so, it needs Conleth Hill as Tuf. Space-Varys!

 

[LabRat]

they are smart hiring sapochnik again, i'll defend s8e3 until i'm dead it was one of the best things i've ever seen on tv, but adapting fire & blood is in my opinion the lamest route they could have taken. i REALLY don't give a shit about the targaryens.

 

[Hayeya]

they are smart hiring sapochnik again, i'll defend s8e3 until i'm dead it was one of the best things i've ever seen on tv, but adapting fire & blood is in my opinion the lamest route they could have taken. i REALLY don't give a shit about the targaryens.

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No shame in defending one of the best episodes in all media "S8E3". People who say that season 8 is garbage and trash need to take it easy.
Episode 1 was slow and boring, Episode 2 was fantastic, episode 3 was grogeous and epic, episode 4 was nothing, episode 5 was epic (set pieces), episode 6 was OK.

I was sad that the Long night series was canned, but this targerian series seems to be carefully cooked. Cannot wait.