Yeah, I mean, I get it. I was excited too and thought it was a decent movie anyway. I don't hate it or anything. I'm just ready for more new stuff.
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George Lucas upon seeing The Force Awakens for the first time: "There's nothing new."
- Thread starter sphagnum
- Start date
Well, can't deny it did well at the BO regardless. 800m was a lot back then. The SW brand propelled it despite its flaws.
It should have done better though, financially and critically, if it had been as good as TLJ it would have.
Guess it depends on what you mean by that.
"Do or do not. There is no try." Is one of the most universally recognized messages in the history of movies.
And Revenge of the Sith had some pretty explicit contemporary political overtones
I mean, the degree to which TLJ capes similar stuff from the OT is equally as bad as ANH. Rey training with exiled Jedi Master on hidden planet. The RotJ throne room snatch and 1 for 1 shot of Rey riding up the elevator with Kylo. The B plot being about running away from the enemy, with a temporary stay on a pleasure city. The beginning Hoth segment similarities from Empire reversed to be at the end.
So yea, I don't see how "nothing new" criticism is something that only TFA is guilty of.
It should have done better critically and commercially as the end of the trilogy.
Couldn't have been long as the falcon reached Bespin without a functioning hyperdrive. Unless you're arguing the Falcon traveled to another solar system in mere weeks on sub light speeds?
Ruh roh plot hole! ESB ruined
There are a couple of sources that the Falcon had a reserve hyperdrive capable of short jumps. Otherwise Bespin would have to be in the Hoth system (it isn't) because sub light speeds would make that trip impossible.
So most likely is numerous small jumps while avoiding Imperial systems and outposts taking weeks to get to Bespin.
Toxic Masculinity(Poe), learn from your failures (Luke), Finding your place in the world (Rey, Finn), pacifism, never meet your heroes etc.
The themes are not that hard to grasp.
You might not like how the movie executed on those themes, but the movie DID have something to say.
That scene is deliberately cribbing from the OT. I mean it was done with a purpose but it is leaning heavily on the scene from RotJ.
It comes from official ship breakdowns, so it is a cannon explanation. And I did say unspecified time, with Leia asking to the effect of "how long has it been." Not to mention the different states of Luke during training showing a longer passage of time.
In TLJ there are concrete timelines that are only a couple days.
Thematically, that characters can evolve via failure.
Metaphorically, that a franchises don't have to play it safe.
I disagree that TLJ is the only Star Wars movie with something to say (TFA's depiction of neo-Nazism and religious radicalism is very topical, and the prequels were very on the nose with their political analogies of the war on terror), but TLJ sure does sing what it wants to say.
Didn't the other movies say the same thing at various points?
Han Solo is quintessential toxic masculinity in the first movie (and much of the latter ones) until he learns to put his ego and machismo aside for a great cause.
Learning from your failures is Luke's arc throughout ESB and ROTJ.
That branches into Luke's pacifism against his father, discarding his lightsaber.
So much of the PT is Anakin struggling to find acceptance and belong in a world where he's a Jedi but the Jedi forbid his marriage to Padme.
The entire counsel of Jedi in the PT are the "heroes" you finally get to know, and they SUCK. Their ineptitude and pride lead to their downfall.
So... yeah, we got those messages before.
I mean, if it had a reserve hyperdrive capable of short jumps why wasn't it ever used in the movie escape the Imperial fleet? Come on, now
Same reason you wouldn't use a spare donut to run from the cops?
This is a SW thread so expect this joke to go over everyone's head.
I really liked that they nailed the look and aesthetics of the original trilogy with TFA, but yeah... it's not that interesting of a movie as far as plot and characters go. And that's an issue that becomes even bigger when you consider that there are two more movies that have to build off of what it sets up...
A large fleet can cover a smaller spread of systems? Or you know the recon droids that were spread out to locate the Hoth base were still out there? They didn't explain the exact amount of time for reason of being ambiguous, but it did say that it was a longer passage of time.
Either way my original point is still salient, there is a longer unspecified time on Degobah, vs the the two days in TLJ.
Crait isn't Hoth despite the use of Walkers and the fight happening across a flat plain.
Hoth was a well armed and reinforced Rebel Alliance defending against a surprise invasion and a planet wide evacuation.
Crait was the Resistance on its very last legs fighting in a desperate last stand for mere SURVIVAL.
The contexts are totally different despite some surface visual similarities
Hoth was a well armed and reinforced Rebel Alliance defending against a surprise invasion and a planet wide evacuation.
Crait was the Resistance on its very last legs fighting in a desperate last stand for mere SURVIVAL.
The contexts are totally different despite some surface visual similarities
Do kids prefer TFA? Wasn't there that article recently that said kids these days aren't flocking to new Star Wars as readily as say, the MCU movies, or as readily as kids flocked to prequel stuff way back? That wouldn't surprise me since the sequel trilogy is heavily reliant on nostalgia, far more than the prequels were.
And I didn't say Disney should've used everything from Lucas' scripts. I just wish they hadn't thrown out everything and made a slightly worse version of ANH.
I wasn't arguing the point about TLJ. That's true. I still think of the Falcon could make multiple short jumps they probably had a better chance of escaping doing that than navigating a dangerous asteroid field or hiding in plain site on a star destroyer. After the fact explanation just feels like plugging up a plot hole. I don't even care about the plot hole as it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the movie in any way. I just find it amusing that we have people so quick to point out plot holes in the ST but can't concede to where they exist in their beloved OT
what does the MCU has to do with kids preferring TFA instead of ANH?
I'm just saying new Star Wars isn't the monolithic franchise old Star Wars was in its time. It might not shine is brightly decades down the line partly because of this, and partly because of how much it relies on nostalgia.
That also brings up the question of how well ANH does or doesn't hold up. You see videos of all the time of both kids and adults watching it for the first time and still being impressed as recently as this year.
The sequels did better than the prequels even adjusted for inflation
OOF
this is why i dont get, back in the day you made a billion and you were automatically top 5.
now getting a billion wont even get you on the top 50
Is it really a plot hole? The ambiguity of time is done deliberately to avoid the pedantry of time and training. The movie lays out Luke got some training but not enough on Degobah. Without defining the specific amount there isn't the question of "Luke just needed to stay 'X' more days to beat Vader (something TLJ fell into). Leaving out the concrete amount of time that passes and where those gaps occur was deliberate, and not a mistake in the story construction.
It's a plot hole because it would have taken the falcon like 1100 years to get there at sub light speeds lol
can you tell me how the falcon went from one system to another without an hyperdrive please?
Tearing him down to prop up a shitty sequel trilogy is new, so take your own advice and fuck off.
All these Star Wars fans in this thread hating the man who came up with everything you guys love lmao.
Lucas' absence will always be felt. New movies fail to capture the Star Wars magic and that's a fact. But hey if you like watching dumb scenes like Hux being treated like a joke by another irrelevant character then you guys do you.
Lucas' absence will always be felt. New movies fail to capture the Star Wars magic and that's a fact. But hey if you like watching dumb scenes like Hux being treated like a joke by another irrelevant character then you guys do you.
- Ok got that one.
-Really? Why wouldn't the commander let everyone know what was going on in such a tense, life-threatening situation? Really? Really? Your first bullet point made sense but this one does not.
-Again, Luke has been through so much in the past films and this just completely destroyed him and made him abandon everything? Nah, doesn't make sense for Luke's journey and who he was. And your bringing up Lucas story telling to help your argument? Really bro/brodette?
- Ok
- So you are saying the product placement in order to set up the Solo film isn't completely stupid and just Disney dumb meddling?
- humor is fine when it is warranted and injected where it needs to be. so, yeah, i will sue him - it ruined the scene and the sense of urgency. it is like you are excusing bad writing because i am picking on his terrible joke insertions?
I also said in my reply post that contradiction was the wrong word. so it was wrong for me to use the word contradiction but i clarified that in my reply post, which i guess you didn't read thoroughly because you wrote me off as a ranting whiner - which isn't far off lol.
TFA had a scene involving han and the dice in the falcon. JJ cut the scene at the last moment. Rian was already prepping to shoot TLJ.
George Lucas created Star Wars and kept it alive, relevant, and profitable for 30+ years yet doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. Meanwhile, Disney within 4 years of taking ownership released SW first ever bomb. I'll remind you that even the animated Clone Wars movie made back its budget many times. But please, tell me more how Lucas is a coo, coo old man who doesn't know what he's talking about.
If anyone else led Star Wars the IP would've died out long ago.
If anyone else led Star Wars the IP would've died out long ago.