George Lucas upon seeing The Force Awakens for the first time: "There's nothing new."

[UltraMagnus]

Galactic politics, even if horrendously bungled, are a theme that is a big part of the prequels that were not explored in the OT.

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Even that was pretty stupid. The Jedi just accept a giant army of clones and really don't question it? Queen Amidala allows Jar-Jar to be in charge so he can give Palpatine emergency powers?

It's laughably stupid. I mean the basic premise of the Emperor manipulating his way into power and Anakin falling to the Dark Side were ideas that existed long before the prequels.

The "new ideas" the prequels actually brought to the table were things like midi-chlorians and how the clones showed up.

I don't think George even had the idea of the doubled edged lightsaber, one of the fight choreographers came up with that I think, in the original script he just had a standard lightsaber.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

TFA had so much heavy lifting to do, mainly washing the prequels out of everyone's mouth, I can only blame JJ so much.

But stuff like Jakku being a desert planet and Starkiller base being a big Death Star was not good.

I do believe the films were rushed to release, as well. It's really not all the writer/director's fault when they have to juggle reintroducing a franchise with new and old characters and have a time crunch to fight against.

One thing I'll always remember is the only reason Disney owns Star Wars is because Lucas was so frustrated with fan's response to his special editions and prequels that he sold this entire phenomenon he created on the cheap. Star Wars fans have almost literally been bitching non-stop since at least the 90s; think about that shit.

 

[Jarmel]

If this is the shit that made it into Iger's book, I can't imagine what his actual reaction was. Man, I would have loved to have seen his private reaction.

 

[joe1138]

Again, this is why TLJ and Rian Johnson has my respect and JJ remains in hack status unless he somehow pulls off something truly innovative and great with TROS.

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I've saying since day one the reason the sequel trilogy has been a disappointment for me hasn't been Rian Johnson, Kathleen Kennedy or even Bob Iger but J.J. Abrams.

The man is not a storyteller. He doesn't have an original idea in his head. He knows where to place the camera and how to cut and exciting action scene but story, characters and themes are not his strong suit at all.

I have issues with The Last Jedi but they stem from pacing and editorial decisions. I think Rian Johnson did the best he could do given the weak characters and lame premise that was handed to him by J.J. Abrams.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Yes, nostalgia was a large part of TFA. That's okay. Nothing inherently wrong with that.

With the movie being miles better than the prequels (as in, a movie that is actually good), I'd say it worked out.

 

[SugarNoodles]

And it was still leagues better than the prequels.

 

[UltraMagnus]

I've saying since day one the reason the sequel trilogy has been a disappointment for me hasn't been Rian Johnson, Kathleen Kennedy or even Bob Iger but J.J. Abrams.

The man is not a storyteller. He doesn't have an original idea in his head. He knows where to place the camera and how to cut and exciting action scene but story, characters and themes are not his strong suit at all.

I have issues with The Last Jedi but they stem from pacing and editorial decisions. I think Rian Johnson did the best he could do given the weak characters and lame premise that was handed to him by J.J. Abrams.

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I would say character interaction is a strength of JJ's to be fair to him. He knows how to get several characters on screen and to make it fun between the characters, the Trek movies basically work to the extent they do basically on that reason.

Rian Johnson is not as good at that aspect.

 

[Jarmel]

I've saying since day one the reason the sequel trilogy has been a disappointment for me hasn't been Rian Johnson, Kathleen Kennedy or even Bob Iger but J.J. Abrams.

The man is not a storyteller. He doesn't have an original idea in his head. He knows where to place the camera and how to cut and exciting action scene but story, characters and themes are not his strong suit at all.

I have issues with The Last Jedi but they stem from pacing and editorial decisions. I think Rian Johnson did the best he could do given the weak characters and lame premise that was handed to him by J.J. Abrams.

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I'm in the same boat. I think a lot of the problems with the ST stem from JJ so it's going to be fascinating to see him close it out. The last sequel he made was dogshit (Into Darkness).

 

[Deleted member 13798]

He's right. It's not necessarily a bad thing, though I thought it was bland. From a creative standpoint, it was a perfect crowd pleaser that was extremely safe, which is what it needed to be. And no, the death in it wasn't a risk or shocking twist in any sense.

Lucas is weird, he's one part corporate sellout hack, one part artsy auteur genius. Seeing those two things do some kind of weird dance with the prequel films was a strange sight.

 

[joe1138]

I would say character interaction is a strength of JJ's to be fair to him. He knows how to get several characters on screen and to make it fun between the characters, the Trek movies basically work to the extent they do basically on that reason.

Rian Johnson is not as good at that aspect.

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I've never been a big fan of Abrams' writing. I think he's very good at casting and that's helped him limp to the finish line regarding dialogue scenes in his films, as evidenced by the strong crew he pulled for the two Star Trek films he helmed and even TFA.

 

[UltraMagnus]

I'm in the same boat. I think a lot of the problems with the ST stem from JJ so it's going to be fascinating to see him close it out. The last sequel he made was dogshit (Into Darkness).

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If you're skeptical of JJ as is, I'd probably keep my expectations in check for IX.

 

[Jarmel]

I would say character interaction is a strength of JJ's to be fair to him. He knows how to get several characters on screen and to make it fun between the characters, the Trek movies basically work to the extent they do basically on that reason.

Rian Johnson is not as good at that aspect.

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I'm not sure how much of this I truly believe and this might be too much of a hot take, but I feel JJ is like a signficantly less talented Tarantino. He puts a lot of emphasis on banter/characters but is awful when it comes to larger narrative structures and originality.

 

[Maledict]

The fact that Lucas thinks that innovating film technology is a key point of the Star Wars films is telling. The fact that to this day he doesn't acknowledge how his obsession with forcing new technology hurt the prequels.

Not every film has to advance the technology of cinematography. They need to be good films first, technology demos second. Something sorely missing in the prequels.

 

[UltraMagnus]

I'm not sure how much of this I truly believe and this might be too much of a hot take, but I feel JJ is like a signficantly less talented Tarantino. He puts a lot of emphasis on banter/characters but is awful when it comes to larger narrative structures and originality.

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I mean if you're getting into banter, Tarantino is pretty much the master of that, so you're not going to come at the king there and get a win.

He's pretty decent at that though, miles beyond PT Lucas and probably a notch better than Rian Johnson at that aspect.

 

[Orbit]

George Lucas is great at world building but the worst when it comes to actual plot. Disney did do a complete crap on the franchise with Last Jedi (contradicts itself at every turn and doesn't know what it wanted to be, as well as betraying the previous entry) and Solo (really, instead of taking us somewhere new we need to see the story of the guy who is already dead and who we basically saw as a young man in the original trilogy...?)

 

[Maximus]

It makes sense he would be upset or felt betrayed that Disney didn't use his treatments. It's his universe and he clearly cares deeply about the franchise (despite what people probably think), so it's natural to feel hurt and upset when his ideas are turned down or they don't really consult him much. That's not to say his ideas or storytelling have all been great. He is right TFA didn't feel like anything new, which was the only disappointing thing about the movie. So much potential to go in different ways, but they played it way too safe.

 

[UltraMagnus]

It makes sense he would be upset or felt betrayed that Disney didn't use his treatments. It's his universe and he clearly cares deeply about the franchise (despite what people probably think), so it's natural to feel hurt and upset when his ideas are turned down or they don't really consult him much. That's not to say his ideas or storytelling have all been great. He is right TFA didn't feel like anything new, which was the only disappointing thing about the movie. So much potential to go in different ways, but they played it way too safe.

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If he cared that much he probably should've stipulated script approval in his deal.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

While TFA is indeed better than the PT.... I felt dirty for liking it. It took no risks, and is literally a scene-for-scene remake of ANH. It doesn't have to be either/or.....

 

[ZeoVGM]

George Lucas is great at world building but the worst when it comes to actual plot. Disney did do a complete crap on the franchise with Last Jedi (contradicts itself at every turn and doesn't know what it wanted to be, as well as betraying the previous entry) and Solo (really, instead of taking us somewhere new we need to see the story of the guy who is already dead and who we basically saw as a young man in the original trilogy...?)

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The Last Jedi doesn't contradict itself and it in absolutely no way "betrays" The Force Awakens. You're projecting your personal negative thoughts on the film into a situation that doesn't exist.

 

[Tavernade]

George had the exact same reaction to TFA that I did. Even if they felt the need to make a bridge movie, they could have EASILY at least tried to make the world more unique (ships/planets/etc). There's no reason for Jakku to be a desert planet or Takodana to be Yavin IV or Starkiller Base to be Hoth With Trees. People bitch about Canto Bight all the time but at least it was really unique both in looks and purpose. I'm genuinely concerned about TROS because of J.J. in the lead, I wish Rian was there instead.

 

[Monster Zero]

TFA was safe and its follow up was weak.

 

[UltraMagnus]

George had the exact same reaction to TFA that I did. Even if they felt the need to make a bridge movie, they could have EASILY at least tried to make the world more unique (ships/planets/etc). There's no reason for Jakku to be a desert planet or Takodana to be Yavin IV or Starkiller Base to be Hoth With Trees. People bitch about Canto Bight all the time but at least it was really unique both in looks and purpose. I'm genuinely concerned about TROS because of J.J. in the lead, I wish Rian was there instead.

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I think they needed to pick one or the other and insist on one for all three.

It's either JJ's trilogy or Johnson's trilogy, but pick one. Don't let the two of them do their own thing on their own sensibilities and try to sell it as one cohesive vision.

Even if JJ was not going to direct VIII, they should've stipulated the director of VIII has to follow JJ's plans, which according to Daisy Ridley was completely thrown out as well.

If you're going to Las Vegas, then go to Vegas, hey it may not be the most original vacation idea, btu don't tell people you're going to Vegas and then make a detour to Tijuana half way through. I think on that aspect people are right to be a little miffed.

I get what Johnson was trying to do, but if that's what he wanted to do, they should have just given him his own trilogy.

Once they bet on Abrams for VII, then they should have insisted that he provide plot outlines for VIII and IX and directors of those films have to follow that outline more or less.

 

[Surfinn]

I don't think that's what he meant by microbiotic world. He was just referring to dealing more with Midichlorians and the Whills.

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So doubling down it is. Fuck that shit

They rightly abandoned his bad ideas.

 

[Gyro Zeppeli]

Controversial opinion: Neither Lucas's prequel trilogy vision nor Disney's sequel trilogy vision were the right one for Star Wars, but you know what was? The old EU non-canon timeline. They made some of the best characters in Star Wars, including Mara Jade, Jacen Solo, Jaina Solo, and Anakin Solo.

 

[UltraMagnus]

Controversial opinion: Neither Lucas's prequel trilogy vision nor Disney's sequel trilogy vision were the right one for Star Wars, but you know what was? The old EU non-canon timeline. They made some of the best characters in Star Wars, including Mara Jade, Jacen Solo, Jaina Solo, and Anakin Solo.

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I think Zahn is really the only one that made really any great additions to the universe, but to do the trilogy he wrote you need the OT cast to be about 20 years younger. That's the trilogy they needed to make in 1999, not the prequels.

 

[sphagnum]

This is George's sole reference to the "microbiotic world".

I don't think this means Honey I Shrunk the Jedi. More likely it would be similar to the final episodes of TCW. When he says "get into",, he means "delve into/focus on/explore the themes of", not "the characters will be tiny".

 

[ZeoVGM]

While TFA is indeed better than the PT.... I felt dirty for liking it. It took no risks, and is literally a scene-for-scene remake of ANH. It doesn't have to be either/or.....

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Literally, guys.

Literally.

 

[Deleted member 984]

I'm no Star Wars fan but what did he expect? It's Disney. You have decades of evidence of them bastardising original source material and turning it into mass market entertainment that targets the lowest common denominator, often pissing off fans of the original works but creates a new fan base that dwarfs the original.

Then again he can't complain because that is exactly what he did in creating Star Wars in the first place.

 

[SageShinigami]

I enjoy The Force Awakens, but it really is a pretty big copy of A New Hope.

"No, you see, OUR Death Star is even BIGGER. No, OUR desert planet is TOTALLY different. No, killing the mentor figure in this one is TOTALLY fresh and original. No, you see, the droid with the secret plans is round this time. Look, do you want us to go back to Jar-Jar? We WILL if you want us to."

It's a film with great execution, but not really original ideas.

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As someone who's never seen ANY of the other Star Wars films all the way through, I was legit in shock watching TFA. SW is a ubiquitous property and so you get a lot of the references and stuff from pop culture. So sitting there I was like "Wow, this feels like a bunch of shit I'd heard about before."

 

[DiipuSurotu]

This memoir should have been released before TROS goes into production. I can only imagine what JJ's reaction would be to it and how it would affect the writing of TROS if it came out sooner.

 

[Crossing Eden]

New doesn't always = better. A lot of the point of the first movie was how stuff the past effected future generations. It was used as a theming.

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So what?

Execution matters and TFA was way better executed than any of the prequels.

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it's nothing new because the fucking load of garbage you shit out of your ass in the form of the prequels was so awful that people needed the reminder of what star wars actually is

and it was great

rey has more personality and heart in that one movie than anyone in all three of your garbage prequels combined

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well yea, they needed to do that after the mess you did with the PT georgie

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Say it again for the people in the back.

 

[VorpalNonsense]

I get it, George isn't necessarily wrong. I kinda feel similarly about the sequel trilogy in general. I am enjoying it, but I wish it were a little more fresh. The prequel trilogy being received poorly doesn't invalidate that sentiment. George is bursting with fresh but he needs other people around him to refine his ideas. With refinement we got the OT, without refinement we got the PT. Same dude both times, but different levels of limitation and collaboration.

George created a wonderful new toybox with the prequel trilogy that other people like Filoni took and did greater things with. He definitely expanded the universe with fertile new land. He just didn't execute well on his own when given unquestioned control and limitless resources. The collaboration is what made it work. Imagine if the prequels had Marcia Lucas and Kasdan around.

Whatever his ideas for the sequel trilogy, I'm sure they were not all great, but I'm sure he had some bangers in there too.
However it does seem like a few of his ideas did end up coming through. And those are some of the best features of the sequel trilogy so far. Rey, Ahch-to Luke, and Kylo Ren all have roots in his draft ideas from the limited information we have.

People argue back and forth as if prequel-bad and ot-good are the only binary choices when making a new star wars movie. Personally I'd love if we got something as fresh as the prequels but with the slicker execution of the originals or sequel trilogy. The ST hasn't expanded the universe very much, mostly just played within its existing constraints. That's a bit drab as a premise.
But I don't blame Lucasfilm for playing it safe. We all know the star wars community is a very incendiary crowd that was still reeling from the prequels.

I just hope that whatever Johnson's trilogy is, it's at least a hundred years disconnected from the Skywalker saga and that if I even see an X-Wing it's in a junk pile at a scrap yard. Let's find some new land again.

 

[WellbornWarrior]

You don't rule American pop culture for nearly half a century by being mediocre. You don't have to denigrate it. No matter what you personally think of the series, it's okay to admit that it is incredibly important for modern cinema and among the greats by any measure.

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The OT sure is. But the prequels and the sequels (and all the extended universe stuff to an extend) kind of prove that it was a lightning in a bottle that can't be replicated no matter how hard anyone seems to try.

 

[joe1138]

"The Force Awakens had nothing new."

SW Fans: "The godfather of Star Wars has spoken."

"The Last Jedi was beautifully made."

SW Fans: "Why would anyone listen to George? He ruined Star Wars."

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I know this post was probably done in jest and ultimately to point out the hypocrisy of some fans (which is a very real thing) but I also don't feel it's entirely fair to attribute a quote from a third party to Lucas directly. Let's not forget that quote was made by Connie Wethington, a rep for Lucas, to The Hollywood Reporter prior to the film's release (a film which was released by a studio George has a significant stake in).

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/h...thinks-last-jedi-was-beautifully-made-1067092

 

[TheIlliterati]

OH man, I wish they had gone a different way in the next sequel, I'm sure fans would've liked that.

 

[Regulus Tera]

I'm pretty sure we had already heard this about Lucas back when TFA got released.

 

[BossAttack]

Say it again for the people in the back.

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George Lucas and Bob Iger agree TFA was unoriginal. At this point, who are you arguing against? You can't just slam Lucas shut with, "but the prequels!" when the man created this entire franchise and kept it relevant and alive for 30+ years. Also, before this people were using Lucas' outlines as proof that JJ and Co. were following George's plan and thus had his stamp of approval. Now that it's shown he doesn't approve it's suddenly, "woah now, but Lucas made the prequels that crazy old man doesn't know what the hell is good anyway."

 

[mjc]

This is George's sole reference to the "microbiotic world".

I don't think this means Honey I Shrunk the Jedi. More likely it would be similar to the final episodes of TCW. When he says "get into",, he means "delve into/focus on/explore the themes of", not "the characters will be tiny".

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Yeah the fans wouldn't have liked this. It's an extension of the midichlorian explanation for the Force...which is unnecessary IMO. The force works best as a general part of life.

 

[UltraMagnus]

Kira (Rey) goes to meet the Whills, who have wacky wise cracking personas, not unlike Jar-Jar, but 18 feet tall. She then fights Darth Icky, the new antagonist but instead of a fight they go cruising around Coruscant in 50s style cruisers. Also there's a bad ass character named Darth Insidious, but he only is given 2 lines in the movie before being cut in half. It would've been great!

 

[Surfinn]

I get it, George isn't necessarily wrong. I kinda feel similarly about the sequel trilogy in general. I am enjoying it, but I wish it were a little more fresh. The prequel trilogy being received poorly doesn't invalidate that sentiment. George is bursting with fresh but he needs other people around him to refine his ideas. With refinement we got the OT, without refinement we got the PT. Same dude both times, but different levels of limitation and collaboration.

George created a wonderful new toybox with the prequel trilogy that other people like Filoni took and did greater things with. He definitely expanded the universe with fertile new land. He just didn't execute well on his own when given unquestioned control and limitless resources. The collaboration is what made it work. Imagine if the prequels had Marcia Lucas and Kasdan around.

Whatever his ideas for the sequel trilogy, I'm sure they were not all great, but I'm sure he had some bangers in there too.
However it does seem like a few of his ideas did end up coming through. And those are some of the best features of the sequel trilogy so far. Rey, Ahch-to Luke, and Kylo Ren all have roots in his draft ideas from the limited information we have.

People argue back and forth as if prequel-bad and ot-good are the only binary choices when making a new star wars movie. Personally I'd love if we got something as fresh as the prequels but with the slicker execution of the originals or sequel trilogy. The ST hasn't expanded the universe very much, mostly just played within its existing constraints. That's a bit drab as a premise.
But I don't blame Lucasfilm for playing it safe. We all know the star wars community is a very incendiary crowd that was still reeling from the prequels.

I just hope that whatever Johnson's trilogy is, it's at least a hundred years disconnected from the Skywalker saga and that if I even see an X-Wing it's in a junk pile at a scrap yard. Let's find some new land again.

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Good post. The ST (yes even TFA) does new and fresh things, but the ST could definitely be more of its own and branch away from the OT, which is what I personally wanted.

That said, "There's nothing new" is just intellectually dishonest, even if we're just focused on TFA (Kylo Ren alone contradicts it). And for what the ST does, it does it well.

 

[UltraMagnus]

George Lucas and Bob Iger agree TFA was unoriginal. At this point, who are you arguing against? You can't just slam Lucas shut with, "but the prequels!" when the man created this entire franchise and kept it relevant and alive for 30+ years. Also, before this people were using Lucas' outlines as proof that JJ and Co. were following George's plan and thus had his stamp of approval. Now that it's shown he doesn't approve it's suddenly, "woah now, but Lucas made the prequels that crazy old man doesn't know what the hell is good anyway."

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I'd probably bet Lucas' drafts had a lot of wacky shit in it, lol.

If they were good, Disney would've used them. Simple as that. They were on a tight schedule as is and weren't happy they had to move VII back to get Abrams as is.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Literally, guys.

Literally.

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Okay, I admit I'm a turd for misusing literally. :P

But it's shameless to where even the film admits it several times throughout. "Hey, what if we throw her in a garbage compactor?"

I think in terms of evoking the era of the Rebellion, Rogue One was perfect (and probably my favorite post-OT film). But then again, that was an extremely polarizing movie, apparently.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

"Where's the 50s diner?"

 

[Bronx-Man]

Eh. Even Kylo could be summed up as Anakin but written well this time.

 

[Deleted member 57578]

I've just sort of accepted the revisionist theories surrounding the creation of the first trilogy i.e. that it was mediocre bullshit brought to life by the contributions of the cast and crew members like Marcia Lucas and Colin Cantwell. I like Lucas' names (i.e. planets, races) and a few other aspects of his world building, but otherwise everything I've ever heard come out of his mouth about plotting, characters, 'mythology' just makes me roll my eyes.

The sequel trilogy is generic and samey, but it's fucking leagues beyond the prequel trilogy. Bob Iger is being downright diplomatic in his recounting of Lucas' involvement.

 

[spootime]

Yeah he's 100% right.

Also, "appealing to nostalgia" is not an excuse for what JJ did with TFA. Call me crazy but I think a competent writer could have created a story that captures the same themes as EP4 without relying on Death star 3 electric boogaloo, poor mans tatooine, random jungle planet, etc.

I liked TLJ even less than TFA but I will always respect Rian Johnson and the risks he took way more than I do JJ.

 

[Gustaf]

George Lucas and Bob Iger agree TFA was unoriginal. At this point, who are you arguing against? You can't just slam Lucas shut with, "but the prequels!" when the man created this entire franchise and kept it relevant and alive for 30+ years. Also, before this people were using Lucas' outlines as proof that JJ and Co. were following George's plan and thus had his stamp of approval. Now that it's shown he doesn't approve it's suddenly, "woah now, but Lucas made the prequels that crazy old man doesn't know what the hell is good anyway."

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bob iger was talking about the "visual or technical leaps forward."

but you do you

 

[greepoman]

I really hate the "at least he tried something new" trope. As if that's some huge accomplishment. I give no credit for "something new" if you're gonna have the story and acting as it was in the PT. If Lucas had "played it safe" I'm confident the PT would have been just as terrible... it's not like trying "something new" was harder or added anything.

 

[Lunar Wolf]

George exploring the Whills is a concept that goes back to the OT. It would've meant more backstory on the Force more like the final seasons of TCW.

Sounds like it would've been very world-building heavy.

 

[OnPorpoise]

If this is the shit that made it into Iger's book, I can't imagine what his actual reaction was. Man, I would have loved to have seen his private reaction.

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Given the amount of interest these quotes will generate, if there is more to his reaction, I can't not see it eventually leaking out.

After all the public growing pains Lucasfilms has gone through in the Disney era, I can't imagine there isn't enough floating around not to weave into an article or full-on book.