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Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Haven't played it yet, but I'm very glad it's getting rave reviews and praise for its plot. I've at least liked, often loved, every VanillaWare game, but ever since Odin Sphere (which has a delightful story that's also told out of order and beautifully voice acted), it felt like their narrative acumen fell off a cliff. Muramasa was just bad, and Dragon's Crown (my absolute favorite VW game, as a fan of the original D&D arcades) barely has any, probably by design given its genre.
 

Valkerion

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,229
I've always really liked his art style. Somewhere between anime, classic painting, and originality. I particularly enjoy really exaggerated designs in both costumes, looks, and proportions so while I understand some people not liking some of his work, I personally like it. I liked the story in Odin's as well but the rest of the roster until 13, which I've yet to play was only ok in terms of story.
 

Terraforce

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
18,917
This is "she breathes through her skin" except more convoluted. Also, it's one of the most obvious plot twists you can have in a sci-fi story. Of course, if the build up is good the story can be good, but there's nothing special about this twist.
It isn't remotely similar. The twist in Sentinels is made so that it serves as a hint with a through line to that conclusion in hindsight. As you progress through the story you can piece the puzzle together naturally. No one is every going to randomly assume a character is naked because they use it to breathe.

And the user who spoiled that left out a ton of major plot details (likely intentionally) so you can't just call it obvious while not completely understanding what actually happened and the progression that lead to that outcome lol. The plot twist isn't obvious at all.
 

Oleander

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,588
13 Sentinels is a really impressive narrative, though I would say that the plot itself didn't impress me much. It is derived from references to a bunch of established sci-fi themes that the game often directly and intentionally references that it pulls from, and while there are some great twists, they aren't the type of twists that I haven't already seen in other media before.

However, it's truly the form of the narrative that makes it special. The amount of agency the player has in choosing what order the story plays out, and yet the careful balancing act in ensuring that the events that are portrayed later in one character's arc doesn't spoil the early events of another character's arc, is exemplary in its execution. The characters are also very distinct and engaging to follow, though perhaps not consistently so, but with so many characters, such a request is effectively impossible and I don't think any of the individual stories is long enough to outstay welcome.
 

Yu Narukami

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,130
I dunno if I can trust Era. Everybody said Days Gone was shit. I bought it this week and it's fantastic.
 

cowbanana

Member
Feb 2, 2018
13,670
a Socialist Utopia
I dunno if I can trust Era. Everybody said Days Gone was shit. I bought it this week and it's fantastic.

Days Gone was GOTY material last year. An amazing game. I never listen to "Era" on game opinions, I've been playing games long enough to know what I'll like. The only dud I've bought in years was TLOU2, it really didn't resonate with me and I think I'm done with slow walking/talking as game design.

13 Sentinels is definitely GOTY material this year for me.
 
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ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,584
I dunno if I can trust Era. Everybody said Days Gone was shit. I bought it this week and it's fantastic.
Forget about any notion of some imagined ERA hivemind. How can I, personally, convince you to try the game? What would you like to know?

I've taken it upon myself to be the game's unpaid, unofficial ambassador.
 
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ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,584
I need to buy this game.
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Slushimi

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,548
I'm 100% getting this game at some point, just not sure if it's worth spending 60 euro on. Love me some great storytelling
 
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ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,584
I'm 100% getting this game at some point, just not sure if it's worth spending 60 euro on. Love me some great storytelling
As with any full-priced game purchase it ultimately comes down to your current finances, but if those aren't too constrained then I can say that this is definitely worth full price.
 

Deleted member 11008

User requested account closure
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
6,627
As with any full-priced game purchase it ultimately comes down to your current finances, but if those aren't too constrained then I can say that this is definitely worth full price.

I would say unless you want get a physical copy it's fine to wait for a discount sale later. Niche games are easier and affordable to get than ever thanks to digital storefronts.
 
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ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,584
I would say unless you want get a physical copy it's fine to wait for a discount sale later. Niche games are easier and affordable to get than ever thanks to digital storefronts.
FYI - all of the first-run physical copies come with an art book. It's pretty short and small, but it's something to consider if you're debating between physical and digital for this game.
 

KiLAM

Member
Jan 25, 2018
1,610
Really want to play this but wish it was available on Steam. Hate buying games digitally on ps4 and it's not available physically where I live.
Might as well wait for end year sales at this point.
 

Pixel_Stream

Member
Oct 28, 2017
180
id gladly pay full price again to wipe my memory and play it again after completing it. If you have any interest in jrpg games; Persona, Fire Emblem, Front-Mission; Nier etc, there is no skipping on this one. I really think you´ll dig it. And even among those series its pretty unique in its format and storytelling.
 
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danmaku

Member
Nov 5, 2017
3,232
It isn't remotely similar. The twist in Sentinels is made so that it serves as a hint with a through line to that conclusion in hindsight. As you progress through the story you can piece the puzzle together naturally. No one is every going to randomly assume a character is naked because they use it to breathe.

And the user who spoiled that left out a ton of major plot details (likely intentionally) so you can't just call it obvious while not completely understanding what actually happened and the progression that lead to that outcome lol. The plot twist isn't obvious at all.

When I say "obvious" I mean that's so clichè that's not going to be surprising, even if it comes out of nowhere. It's like a murder mystery in which the culprit is the butler. Like... duh. As I said, this doesn't mean the story is bad. Actually, I kinda want to play it now, since the premise is interesting. The spoiler doesn't matter.
 
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ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,584
When I say "obvious" I mean that's so clichè that's not going to be surprising, even if it comes out of nowhere. It's like a murder mystery in which the culprit is the butler. Like... duh. As I said, this doesn't mean the story is bad. Actually, I kinda want to play it now, since the premise is interesting. The spoiler doesn't matter.
It may seem obvious when just reading it as a plainly described spoiler, but the game does an excellent job misdirecting you in various ways throughout its story and earns the surprise of that revelation toward the end. It's a shame that you had to read it before playing, but if you end up playing the game I'll be happy either way. I just want more people to play the game.
 

LordGorchnik

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,283
My personal sell for the game was actually put in the threads OT so Ill repeat it here

If you are a fan of 80s Japanese drama, kaiju (Godzilla-style) movies, time-travel, and mechs, you owe it to yourself to buy this game.
 
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ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,584
My personal sell for the game was actually put in the threads OT so Ill repeat it here

If you are a fan of 80s Japanese drama, kaiju (Godzilla-style) movies, time-travel, and mechs, you owe it to yourself to buy this game.
I'd reduce it even further to: If you like sci-fi, you should get this game.

It really casts a wide net in terms of using sci-fi concepts/tropes from a variety of inspirations, and does so quite successfully without feeling overly derivative IMO.
 

theosmeo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
773
absolutely love the game, important to note that you really gotta be paying attention at all times or u will be confused, i def rewatched a couple of scenes to fully understand stuff my first time through
 
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ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,584
absolutely love the game, important to note that you really gotta be paying attention at all times or u will be confused, i def rewatched a couple of scenes to fully understand stuff my first time through
That's why it's so cool that they included what amounts to an extensive in-game wiki. I love going through it and uncovering little tidbits of info that I misunderstood or missed altogether during my playthrough.
 

Helix

Mayor of Clown Town
Member
Jun 8, 2019
23,745
I really need to get my hands on 13 sen. me sleeping on it is an injustice to my vanillaware loving ass
 

Nista

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,097
My friend loves this game so much, and was trying to sell me on it similar to this thread. But I got Hades instead.

I just can't get into yet another sexist game starring a bunch of high schoolers in Japan. Even if there's a scifi story twist to it. Which is ironic since I was an 80s teen.

And when you see the naked artwork pop up when you Google the game title, I'm not surprised that a wider audience would avoid buying it.
 

Valcrist

Tic-Tac-Toe Champion
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,689
My friend loves this game so much, and was trying to sell me on it similar to this thread. But I got Hades instead.

I just can't get into yet another sexist game starring a bunch of high schoolers in Japan. Even if there's a scifi story twist to it. Which is ironic since I was an 80s teen.

And when you see the naked artwork pop up when you Google the game title, I'm not surprised that a wider audience would avoid buying it.
Give it a chance. Yes, the in-mecha portraits of all the characters are nude and there is some sexualism (one of the character's outfits is a bit sketch) to an extent, the experience overall is worth it. The game also has the most respectfully treated gay couple in a Japanese game I've ever seen, and I've played a lot of Japanese games. Especially in video games, where two men can't really be couples because it's too spooky for straight male gamers compared to lesbians, who they can sexualize in their minds.
 
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ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,584
Any news or hints on what Vanillaware's next project is? I'd love a Princess Crown remake.
We just have this short teaser video to go on. Looks like it'll be a medieval fantasy game of some sort.




My friend loves this game so much, and was trying to sell me on it similar to this thread. But I got Hades instead.

I just can't get into yet another sexist game starring a bunch of high schoolers in Japan. Even if there's a scifi story twist to it. Which is ironic since I was an 80s teen.

And when you see the naked artwork pop up when you Google the game title, I'm not surprised that a wider audience would avoid buying it.
Can't go wrong with Hades, as it's a great game as well.

That said, I do really hope you give 13 Sentinels a chance at some point. I'm not at all into fanservice-y, trope-y anime or anything related to it, and I promise you that 13 Sentinels is surprisingly muted in that regard.
 

Sea lion

Banned
Nov 8, 2017
903
Lol the amount of loop holes people jump through to defend shitty anime practices is astounding. Who cares if there's a reason the children are naked?? Its still a conscious decision by the developer who could have easily written it so they wouldn't be. Its fucking anime, anything can happen. Everyone here know exactly why they're naked.

The more we hand wave this shit the more prevalent it becomes. "Xenoblade 2 is a great game story despite it featuring a school girl sex robot and treating females like shit". If these were Westen games they'd get destroyed.
 
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ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,584
Lol the amount of loop holes people jump through to defend shitty anime practices is astounding. Who cares if there's a reason the children are naked?? Its still a conscious decision by the developer who could have easily written it so they wouldn't be. Its fucking anime, anything can happen. Everyone here know exactly why they're naked.

The more we hand wave this shit the more prevalent it becomes. "Xenoblade 2 is a great game story despite it featuring a school girl sex robot and treating females like shit". If these were Westen games they'd get destroyed.
I think you'd feel differently if you played the game. I really do.

I've played both this and Xenoblade 2, and XB2 was truly shameful in this regard whereas 13S didn't bother me at all.

Other than one character who's slightly sexualized, the game does a great job with most of its female characters.
 
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EdgeWilder

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
867
How is this games story compared to nier automates true ending? That game really moved me in terms of story at least at these very end. Is there any chance 13 sentinels can surpass that feeling I had playing nier? Without spoilers of course.
 

ultramooz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,337
Paris, France
No idea on whether he's done something like this, but worth pointing out 13 sentinels has a pretty decent gay relationship in the story
I'm just at the beginning of the game and when you first have the first hints of lgbt représentation I started to cringe, afraid that it would turn badly later. (since I remembered the kotaku stuff, and being published by Atlus which has a track record on these matters)

Glad to know it doesn't, and that they have made progress.
 
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ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,584
I'm just at the beginning of the game and when you first have the first hints of lgbt représentation I started to cringe, afraid that it would turn badly later. (since I remembered the kotaku stuff, and being published by Atlus which has a track record on these matters)

Glad to know it doesn't, and that they have made progress.
I think opinions vary a little regarding that particular relationship, but it's definitely not problematic like you'd expect from a Japanese game of this sort. It's just that some people think it's well-represented while others think that maybe they could've gone further with it compared to the hetero relationships in the game.
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,848
Lol the amount of loop holes people jump through to defend shitty anime practices is astounding. Who cares if there's a reason the children are naked?? Its still a conscious decision by the developer who could have easily written it so they wouldn't be. Its fucking anime, anything can happen. Everyone here know exactly why they're naked.

The more we hand wave this shit the more prevalent it becomes. "Xenoblade 2 is a great game story despite it featuring a school girl sex robot and treating females like shit". If these were Westen games they'd get destroyed.
Please don't use Xenoblade 2 as an example as if that applies to 13sen. You don't know what you are claiming
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,429
I think opinions vary a little regarding that particular relationship, but it's definitely not problematic like you'd expect from a Japanese game of this sort. It's just that some people think it's well-represented while others think that maybe they could've gone further with it compared to the hetero relationships in the game.
It definitely could have gone further, but it was still good overall
 

Nista

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,097
Give it a chance. Yes, the in-mecha portraits of all the characters are nude and there is some sexualism (one of the character's outfits is a bit sketch) to an extent, the experience overall is worth it. The game also has the most respectfully treated gay couple in a Japanese game I've ever seen, and I've played a lot of Japanese games. Especially in video games, where two men can't really be couples because it's too spooky for straight male gamers compared to lesbians, who they can sexualize in their minds.

I've moved it into the "try it sometime category" from reading everyone's commentary here. Too bad I can't borrow it from my friend, the digital future is lame!

I do think it's unfortunate that people might miss out on decent gay representation due to the way the game is marketed here. Cause that was one of the things that turned me off of playing Persona 5 myself after watching my SO's playthrough.

Some of my criticisms can be leveled at Japanese media overall - so much of it is written like life peaks at high school, Al Bundy-style. Trying to find N4 level reading material for Japanese class that doesn't make me facepalm is hard these days.

So I don't really blame Kamitani for creating stories that fit within that market's standard appeal - AAA western games have been repeating story tropes over and over except for a few outliers.
 
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ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,584
Just wondering...

For any of you who were convinced to try the game after reading through this thread, have you gotten a chance to play it yet? I'm curious to know what you think.
 

Yunsar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
423
I think you'd feel differently if you played the game. I really do.

I've played both this and Xenoblade 2, and XB2 was truly shameful in this regard whereas 13S didn't bother me at all.

Other than one character who's slightly sexualized, the game does a great job with most of its female characters.

"Slightly sexualized" still doesn't sound very convincing, especially when it involves underaged characters.
 
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ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,584
"Slightly sexualized" still doesn't sound very convincing, especially when it involves underaged characters.
The one character I'm referring to is actually an adult. She just wears a skin-tight latex bodysuit a la Trinity from the Matrix and is very well-endowed. She stands out in the game and being the one and only example of something bordering on fanservice though.
 

Yunsar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
423
The one character I'm referring to is actually an adult. She just wears a skin-tight latex bodysuit a la Trinity from the Matrix and is very well-endowed. She stands out in the game and being the one and only example of something bordering on fanservice though.

But are there underaged characters who are portrayed naked on-screen?
 

Yunsar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
423
I mean... kind of? Not really, though. The characters are naked inside of the sentinel cockpits, but it doesn't represent them in a lewd manner and is actually justified within the context of the story.

Is the nakedness really necessary, though?

If the whole story is just a virtual simulation inside cloning tubes, why can't it just show simulated cockpits to the players of this game. Is there really any real-life reason not to do this other than to titillate those who find naked teenagers appealing?
 

asd202

Enlightened
Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,545
What a ride this game is. Absolutly amazing story with very unique and beautiful 2D presentation, superb music and surprisingly fun RTS mode that doesn't overstay it's welcome. Easily my Goty over FFVIIR (which I really liked), Persona 5 Royal or TLOU2.
 
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