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Deleted member 8861

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Oct 26, 2017
10,564
I'd love to hear of books that are technically genre fiction, but which have a seriousness, depth, profundity and eloquence that we normally associate with more 'arty', literary works. High-brow literature itself usually bores me to tears, but a serious, deep, well-composed work of genre fiction can just get me.

I have in my mind much of Le Guin, and Neil Gaiman's Sandman. And Dhalgren, I suppose, which I think I'll have to return to later even though it has some repugnant stuff in it, because it was that good (until it wasn't).

I'm mainly looking for novels of various forms, I'll give any genre a try, but honestly any kind of fiction that you think plays into this is something I'd want to hear about.
 

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,114
What literature have you read? Seems a little odd you want stuff that deals with the same themes but just, what, in space? With more costumes? More action?

There's probably a slim chance you haven't heard of him but definitely check out Kurt Vonnegut if you haven't already, I think most people would put his novels in the "literature" camp but most of them have science fiction aspects. Sometimes it's more subtle, like a dangerous fictional chemical, sometimes the characters are literally adventuring into outer space, and sometimes they're more grounded, but you might like some of them. Slaughterhouse Five and Cat's Cradle are generally considered his best books. Personally I love Mother Night and God Bless You Mr. Rosewater but both of those don't have any sci-fi stuff going on, though all of his books are pretty hilarious if you're worried about being bored by something dry.
 
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dreams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,799
I don't understand this lol. Literature is more than just historical fiction. Pretty sure like 1984 is considered literature? Anyway, Neuromancer by William Gibson.
 
Oct 27, 2017
66
Avram Davidson would definitely fit that bill. He has some especially strong short fiction works, and a lovely whimiscal and very distinct writing style.
 
Oct 27, 2017
303
Michael Chabon books; start with The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay, which won the Pulitzer Prize but is about a coupla guys making comic books. Chabon likes challenging perceptions about the value of genre fiction compared to literary fiction.
 

Xagarath

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,140
North-East England
There are loads of authors like this.
Try John Crowley's Little, Big, Catherynne Valente's Deathless, Ann Leckie's The Raven Tower, B Catling's The Vorrh, Sofia Samatar's A Stranger in Olondria, or Ada Palmer's Too Like the Lightning for starters.
 

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,114
Michael Chabon books; start with The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay, which won the Pulitzer Prize but is about a coupla guys making comic books. Chabon likes challenging perceptions about the value of genre fiction compared to literary fiction.

That book is incredible (my username is a reference to it!) but it's straight-up literature. Yeah, the main characters write comics, but it's not genre fiction.

Like, what genre would you put it in?

Chabon does like challenging the idea that literature is more worthwhile than genre fiction, but it mostly only comes out in his essays. I haven't read all of his books but Telegraph Avenue and Wonder Boys aren't genre fiction either, and to my knowledge none of his other works are either, with the exception of Yiddish Policemen's Union. It's a detective story along the lines of Raymond Chandler, but written by a dude who won a Pulitzer. May be worth checking out OP, though you never specified whether there's certain genres you're interested in, if you're after fantasy and sci-fi you can skip it.

I don't understand this lol. Literature is more than just historical fiction. Pretty sure like 1984 is considered literature? Anyway, Neuromancer by William Gibson.

Oh yeah, 1984 is absolutely considered literature.

I'm always confused as to where the idea that literature is boring comes from. I guess from people just resenting being assigned certain books in high school. That was the case with me for sure, despite reading a lot for fun I had zero interest in stuff like 1984 and Huck Finn when when they were assigned in English, then had my mind blown when I revisited them out of personal interest years later.
 
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nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
7,204
John Le Carre - The Night Manager, Little Drummer Girl

Ross Macdonald - The Chill, Black Money

James Ellroy - White Jazz
 
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Cocolina

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,991
Shirley Jackson - The Birds Nest for a good horror story

And obviously Mary Shelley - Frankenstein
 

R0b1n

Member
Jun 29, 2018
7,787
Comic books (i.e sandman) aren't literature. Not in the degrading sense, but they literally are not literature by definition
 

m_shortpants

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,254
Probably not exactly what you're describing but Rothfuss' Kingkiller Chronicles had some of the best storytelling and prose I'd read in years.
 

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,114
OP
OP

Deleted member 8861

User requested account closure
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Oct 26, 2017
10,564
I don't understand this lol. Literature is more than just historical fiction. Pretty sure like 1984 is considered literature? Anyway, Neuromancer by William Gibson.
The genre fiction/ 'literary' fiction distinction is a problematic and flawed concept but it's still useful when trying to describe the kind of story I want to read--I admit I botched my description of that while trying to acknowledge the distinction is somewhat meaningless, though.
 

Gundam

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,801
Genre Fiction, meaning stuff like High Fantasy, Horror, Superhero, and Sci-Fi I suppose?

Cause all of my favorite classic American literature is definitely fictional

to me Dracula and Frankenstein stand out to me the most for non-Sci Fi stuff though maybe more for their history than the actual contents
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 8861

User requested account closure
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Oct 26, 2017
10,564
Genre Fiction, meaning stuff like High Fantasy, Horror, Superhero, and Sci-Fi I suppose?

Cause all of my favorite classic American literature is definitely fictional
Yeah, basically. Stuff that'd be snuffed as entertainment in the past which carries a deliberately artistic streak (instead of leaning more towards entertainment).
 

wandering

flâneur
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
2,136
I don't understand this lol. Literature is more than just historical fiction. Pretty sure like 1984 is considered literature? Anyway, Neuromancer by William Gibson.

It's a bit of an arbitrary distinction, but a line does tend to be drawn between literature as "high art" versus genres like sci-fi, fantasy, thriller, what have you. It's elitist, to be sure, but par for the course when it comes to the arts.
 

Excuse me

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,020
Never Let Me Go by Kazuo Ishiguro. I guess Buried as well by same author, haven't read it but it's supposed to be fantasy book. It has gotten some mixed reviews tho.
Haruki Murakami Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World is another. Mix of scifi noire with fantasy side plot. It's really low key on the fantasy/scifi elements tho. Basically just back drop.
 

R0b1n

Member
Jun 29, 2018
7,787
The OP said they want suggestions of genre fiction that feel literary, so it seems like they are fully aware of this.
Forgive my ignorance, but doesn't genre fiction refer solely to written works as well?

Anyway, OP, have you tried looking through the Hugo awards nominees/winners? Usually they are less "literary" but still sufficiently "deep"
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 8861

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Oct 26, 2017
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Haruki Murakami Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World is another. Mix of scifi noire with fantasy side plot. It's really low key on the fantasy/scifi elements tho. Basically just back drop.
I loved the 'End of the World' segments in that book. I love isolated settings like that.
 

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,114
Forgive my ignorance, but doesn't genre fiction refer solely to written works as well?

I don't see why. What is the point of arguing "No, that comic that follows a ship's crew as they adventure through space isn't sci-fi, that designation is only for written works"?

Comics can be fiction and they can belong to established genres, this is some really unnecessary arguing of semantics.

I don't even agree that comics can't be literature. Works like Maus contain written language, claiming they can't be literature because they also have pictures is an overly literal interpretation.


Back on topic, I haven't read it personally so I can't fully vouch for it but I hear Black Leopard, Red Wolf is a good example of literary fantasy.
 
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fakefaker

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
284
Try The Goblin Emperor by Katherine Addison yet? It's a beautifully written fantasy novel that deserves your attention.
 

WolfeTone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
611
Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe

This is a good recommendation. Very unique in the realm of science fiction/fantasy and it's a shame its impact was so limited.

I'd also recommend Perdido Street Station by China Mieville. A wonderful fantasy novel that breaks free from Tolkien archetypes that have defined modern fantasy and presents challenging themes.
 

Grath

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
463
I may be misunderstandig what you mean, but to me many works of Asimov (not only the Foundation books) means more than "simply" sci-fi.

Also, Legend from David Gemmel which was changed for me when I got to know that it's basically a metaphor for his cancer scare.

I love some books or Stanislaw Lem (The Cyberiad), Brian Aldiss (Helliconia), China Miéville (Perdido Street Station) or Dan Simmons (Hyperion).
 

dosh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,260
If you liked Sandman, you can grab pretty much any book by Gaiman. His short stories are delightfully written.

Other than that, there's The Historian by Elizabeth Kostova, if you're into low-key period vampire stories.

And The House of Leaves by Mark Danielewski. Or Hyperion by Dan Simmons.
 

Geoff

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,115
Interesting question. I note someone up there said that graphic novels cannot be literature on a technicality. I don't know if that's right or not but if we say that they could be for the sake of argument there are a good few that break free of their genre moorings. I will nominate From Hell, which is an absolute classic and worth anybodies' time.

As far as sci-fi goes, your have stuff like Clockwork Orange, 1984, Brave New World. These are all books we consider great literature but they don't do anything to break free of their genre with the exception of their quality. The line between Orwell and Phillip K Dick is hard to discern. I think it is there but it's hard to define it.

Also consider someone like Ian McEwan who is considered a literary author yet who writes in all sorts of genres from spy fiction (Sweet Tooth) to historical fiction (Atonement) to sci-fi (Machines like Me).
 

Ando

Member
Apr 21, 2018
744
gene wolfe, the aubrey-maturin novels, graham greene's "entertainments" (quiet american, our man in havana), jg ballard, john le carre, ellroy's la quartet

most nabokov books are this basically too from the other side. pale fire, ada or ardor, invitation to a beheading. you might find you enjoy pynchon and david foster wallace too but they have less plot.
 
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MilkBeard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,783
You'll find much of that in the label of speculative fiction. Atwood gets put under this label a lot, as does Le Guin, though again the term becomes so broad that it can mean anything.
 

HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
Cormac McCarthy's The Road is a usual suggestion for requests like the OP's but I'd also include the original novel version of Under The Skin which is a hauntingly sad scifi story that remains incredibly human.
 
Oct 31, 2017
10,057
Ian M Banks, Patrick O'Brien.
I see someone has mentioned Graham Greene, and it's true he regarded his work as mere entertainment, but The Power and the Glory and The Quiet American are two of the greatest novels of the 20th century for me at least.
 

dreams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,799
Oh yeah, 1984 is absolutely considered literature.

I'm always confused as to where the idea that literature is boring comes from. I guess from people just resenting being assigned certain books in high school. That was the case with me for sure, despite reading a lot for fun I had zero interest in stuff like 1984 and Huck Finn when when they were assigned in English, then had my mind blown when I revisited them out of personal interest years later.
Oh dang, I totally feel this. Wuthering Heights is actually one of my favorite books ever, but when it was assigned reading in uni, I literally could not read it lmao. There is just something weird about brains, I swear.
The genre fiction/ 'literary' fiction distinction is a problematic and flawed concept but it's still useful when trying to describe the kind of story I want to read--I admit I botched my description of that while trying to acknowledge the distinction is somewhat meaningless, though.
I guess I just bristle at the disctinction because it typically implies then that basically only books written by white (and usually male) people are "truly high art" and that's just dumb. So I was being purposely petulant about it, but I am also relieved to see that you were meaning to use it sort of facetiously.

To add on to my recommendation of Neuromancer, the other two books in the Sprawl Trilogy (Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive) are great as well. But also, I think C.S. Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia are typically considered literature maybe? But people don't often talk about his Cosmic Trilogy (Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra, and That Hideous Strength), which are really great.
It's a bit of an arbitrary distinction, but a line does tend to be drawn between literature as "high art" versus genres like sci-fi, fantasy, thriller, what have you. It's elitist, to be sure, but par for the course when it comes to the arts.
Yeah, I mean, I totally get it. But it just bothers me, and I somewhat misinterpreted the intention of the OP.
 

Geoff

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,115
Oh dang, I totally feel this. Wuthering Heights is actually one of my favorite books ever, but when it was assigned reading in uni, I literally could not read it lmao. There is just something weird about brains, I swear.

Wuthering Heights is a fantastic book, I love it too. I guess you could call it genre fiction if you wanted to
 

Kurtikeya

One Winged Slayer
Member
Dec 2, 2017
4,449
The Night Circus by Erin Morgenstern is one of the best contemporary success stories. A NaNoWriMo fantasia with the energy of the carnival that went on to have significant critical acclaim.

Terry Pratchett. A weird shout for someone who got knighted for his contributions to literature, but like he said, he was knighted for not writing literature at all. A comic but telling comment on how we qualify what is capital L or not.

Stephen King is tricky. An institution among institutions, and snobs recognize him as a master of all genres... except for the "literary". His being compared to Dickens is an argument that is still hotly-contested to this day.

The Golem and the Jinni. With a title like that, how can it not be anything than genre? But there's a lot of literariness to this, and depending on who you ask, it's either balanced or bogged down by the action and melodrama.

The Passage trilogy. Often reduced to just being the fun vampire epic that it obviously is, but there's a lot to unpack here. Don't let the generic cover jackets fool you.

On the inverse, there's literary fiction that feels like genre with magic realism. Garcia Marquez and Rushdie are the obvious starts to this. Tea Obreht's The Tiger's Wife is a contemporary big shout.

Detective fiction and crime fiction is still perceived as this, because it was seen as the little brother of high modernism. Christie, Sayers, Highsmith, and of course Doyle are the names synonymous with it. Shimada, Steph Cha, and Auster are the contemporary writers who I gravitated to. Mark Haddon's Curious Case of the Dog in the Nighttime and Michael Chabon in general are part of this tradition, but they're perceived as being more literary than kitsch.
 
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divination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,002
Anything by Ursula K Le Guin which I see you've already mentioned. Would recommend The Left Hand of Darkness or The Dispossessed if you havent read them already.
 

djinn

Member
Nov 16, 2017
15,772
The Ocean at the End of the Lane by Neil Gaiman.

Lud-in-the-Mist by Hope Mirrlees.
 

Rand a. Thor

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
10,213
Greece
Book of Malazan is High Fantasy written like a doctorate thesis for history and is every bit as difficult to read. And that's 10 books worth of high brow prose, absolutely essential reading imo.