Gender-neutral bathrooms gaining popularity across Canada

[Deleted member 2625]

I saw a really good bathroom sign recently. Thought I had a pic but can't find it.

In place of the old symbols It had like a centaur in a dress and a mermaid wearing a top hat and just said WHATEVER

 

[gutter_trash]

Line ups is the biggest negative

 

[julian]

Good. I've been for this before the trans argument came out - in fact, I fucking hate the arguments being used on both sides of that debate. Bathrooms should be gender neutral. I think for safety it would be better to start this in elementary schools and then phase them out as kids grow up used to them, but if a society thinks they're ready now, go for it.

 

[bulbasort]

I saw a really good bathroom sign recently. Thought I had a pic but can't find it.

In place of the old symbols It had like a centaur in a dress and a mermaid wearing a top hat and just said WHATEVER

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That would be the second category, implying that trans and GNC people are equally as fictional as centaurs and mermaids.

 

[gutter_trash]

I saw a really good bathroom sign recently. Thought I had a pic but can't find it.

In place of the old symbols It had like a centaur in a dress and a mermaid wearing a top hat and just said WHATEVER

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I propose using the letters "WC" just like im Europe.

 

[SturokBGD]

That would be the second category, implying that trans and GNC people are equally as fictional as centaurs and mermaids.

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Pure garbage. Stop standing in the way of progress to satisfy your own need for self righteousness.

 

[Klotera]

I'm all for it, except the idea that urinals should go away entirely. For any place that accommodates a relatively large amount of people, they are more efficient. Just as, or even more, importantly, they keep a lot of piss off of toilet seats (I assure you a large number of guys are not lifting the seat when they piss in a public toilet and don't have good enough aim not to do so). They also conserve water.

Surely there's a way to do this and keep urinals. You could have a urinal and toilet in each stall, which some places do, solving the piss issue and conserving water, but it doesn't help with the efficiency issue if you're dealing with volumes of people. You could have a separate room or area for urinals, and then gender neutral stalls, but I guess that could still be considered exclusionary. So, I don't know, but something to think about.

As far the signage, yeah - just say "Toilet". It describes exactly what it is and is gender neutral. Simple, to the point. Even the words "restroom" and "bathroom" are kinda silly, implying that a perfectly natural bodily function is something that cannot be spoken of, as if it's something shameful.

 

[Deleted member 2625]

That would be the second category, implying that trans and GNC people are equally as fictional as centaurs and mermaids.

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huh. i didn't take it that way but I am not trans, it seemed humorously inclusive to me but I can see what you mean

 

[PoppaBK]

This would work fine for newer buildings, but would be a mess for older buildings where space is at a premium and urinals are a must to avoid lines. Women using the stall in a men's bathroom was a common occurrence in several pubs I used to frequent due to the long lines for the ladies.

 

[RedBlue]

This thread reminded me of this dive bar in my town that only has 1 bathroom. One bathroom for all the patrons. And it's right near the entrance of the bar and the door opens to pretty much where half the bar can see you. And the door has no lock, there is a latch that does not work. There is a toilet and a urinal, and people will regularly go in to use the bathroom at the same time. Sometimes there is an expectation that they can use it together with you, a complete stranger. Girls usually go together so that one can watch the door while the other goes. Yup, it's a dive bar.

 

[Duane]

I'm all for it, except the idea that urinals should go away entirely. For any place that accommodates a relatively large amount of people, they are more efficient. Just as, or even more, importantly, they keep a lot of piss off of toilet seats (I assure you a large number of guys are not lifting the seat when they piss in a public toilet and don't have good enough aim not to do so). They also conserve water.

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Came in to say this. Like it or not, keeping urinals = less piss on/around the sit-down bowls. If anyone has an issue with catching glimpses of peeing wieners out, they can put those small dividers between them:

(Or everyone can just rest assured that nobody is trying to sneak a peek anyway... in fact I'm guessing that 99% of the public is actively trying NOT to catch a glimpse of anyone's willy as they walk by)

 

[PoppaBK]

This reminds me of the other day when I took my 6 year old daughter into the men's bathroom with me, and I heard some old guy behind me grumbling about it being 'the men's bathroom'. As a father I would welcome a safer space to take my daughter in to, she thinks nothing of it, but she is getting a bit old now for me to take her into the men's room with guys pissing up against a wall, but she still gets scared sometimes using the women's bathroom by herself in busy places, plus sometimes she literally can't open the doors.

My 8 year old son still insisting on doing a full Butters when he pees is another story.

 

[Kyuuji]

Pure garbage. Stop standing in the way of progress to satisfy your own need for self righteousness.

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Progress isn't relating trans and non-binary people with centaurs and having a giggle at how there's now "anything" out there.
Progress is putting an icon of a toilet on the fucking toilet.

 

[Deleted member 51845]

Came in to say this. Like it or not, keeping urinals = less piss on/around the sit-down bowls. If anyone has an issue with catching glimpses of peeing wieners out, they can put those small dividers between them:

(Or everyone can just rest assured that nobody is trying to sneak a peek anyway... in fact I'm guessing that 99% of the public is actively trying NOT to catch a glimpse of anyone's willy as they walk by)

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Totally agree. Urinals are the best for comfort, sanitation, and speed. I really need to look into installing my own.

 

[AGoodODST]

We have these in work along side regular separate toilets. They are cool. Plus single stall is way better.

Funny story, I thought they were disabled ones only at first so didn't use them for the longest time. First time I used them was to get changed for a works night out I was going to straight after work. The light went off and I didn't know how to get it back on and was standing in my pants in the pitch black feeling around for my clothes, tripped up and smacked my head off the toilet and had a big red mark on my head the whole night.

 

[SturokBGD]

Progress isn't relating trans and non-binary people with centaurs and having a giggle at how there's now "anything" out there.
Progress is putting an icon of a toilet on the fucking toilet.

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If that's what you think it says then that's on you, because that's not what it says.

 

[Kyuuji]

If that's what you think it says then that's on you, because that's not what it says.

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It doesn't need to say anything, having a centaur as the icon says it.
You understand that no mythical creatures are going to use the bathroom, right?

 

[Inugami]

huh. i didn't take it that way but I am not trans, it seemed humorously inclusive to me but I can see what you mean

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It would be, if trans people weren't constantly the butt of every joke. Maybe in 20-30 years after a generation has grown up with LGBTQ marriage and rights not being completely shat on it might be, but right now? It's pretty insulting.

If that's what you think it says then that's on you, because that's not what it says.

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Tagging you for the above as well.

 

[idlewild_]

Not sure how it is implemented elsewhere, but I was working out of another office yesterday and they had a bunch of gender neutral single occupancy bathrooms. It felt much slower to use since you had to walk around looking for an open room and there was no urinal. Also took up a lot more space. On the plus side, the bathrooms were pretty nice and much more private.

 

[SliceSabre]

I'm totally cool with them, but as long as they have urinals. I detest using stalls because I want avoid touching as much of the bathroom as possible and not having to be within someone's fartfog if I don't need to be. Not to mention urinals use less water, space, money and get users in and out quickly.

 

[SturokBGD]

You understand that no mythical creatures are going to use the bathroom, right?

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Of course. But if they did, that would be OK too.

 

[Kyuuji]

Of course. But if they did, that would be OK too.

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You're going from human icons for when it's male and female bathrooms to beasts, mythical creatures, half-man-half-beasts and the like when including trans and non-binary people.

Like it's some difficult issue of how you represent everyone. It's not though, you have the icon of a toilet because it's a toilet.

 

[Parch]

Just can't wrap my head around the safety argument. "People may engage in criminal activities" is not a right priority. "You don't get to see your rights respected because some other guy could abuse them/you" is downright lunacy.

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Agreed. Also, using cleanliness as an argument against gender-neutral bathrooms is equally ridiculous IMO.

 

[DarthWalden]

The gym I go to has gender neutral change rooms (granted there are individual change rooms/showers)

But it made me seriously question what the point is of having gender specific bathrooms, it seems like such an antiquated thing now and I think it would benefit everyone as we don't have to worry about not being Inclusive the companies who build and run the buildings can save money by having less bathrooms to build and maintain.

 

[Aurica]

It is terribly animalistic to piss in a urinal, in a public place.

I don't know, pissing in a row of peeing people have always freaked me out (In a: I'm not one them kind of way (I'm sorry-not sry)-

... it must be a primal social thing - opening a stall door takes literally an automatic thought!

- But still people wallop their penises around in solidarity when they excrete urine upon a wall.

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It is flabbergastingly unreal.

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Neutral bathrooms is a good idea. (not solely because of the above which would be remedied - but we may come closer to that our shits is all the same.)

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Wallop... their penises...?

I get that troughs can be uncomfortable. I don't really like those too much, but normal urinals with tiny walls on each side aren't seen as a masculinity penis party or something. I don't live in a super populated area, so I'm usually the only one using a urinal.

I get finding peeing next to someone odd. I think a lot of people don't find it comfortable, but calling it animalistic and making your argument so everyone else is a weirdo seems extreme to me. Recognize that many people just pee and walk away without a thought. It's not a moment of solidarity for most.

 

[ccbfan]

They're great as an addition but terrible as a replacement.

Urinals are the quickest, cleanest, take the least amount of space and least resource intensive. Vast majority of people use public restrooms just to pee.

Plus considering the low amount of care people tend to have for public places (plus drunk people) do you really want someone peeing in a toilet when they could have used a urinal.

Best idea is to make wall bathrooms gender neutral but also have urinals but can't evne imagine the pr nightmare from that.

 

[SturokBGD]

You're going from human icons for when it's male and female bathrooms to beasts, mythical creatures, half-man-half-beasts and the like when including trans and non-binary people.

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I don't think all that time, effort and money is going in to building gender neutral bathrooms just to make fun of people.

Simple logic tells me the sign says "everyone is welcome", not "trans/non-binary people are fictional". Which I think is a stronger message to send than "this is a toilet".

 

[Kyuuji]

Pure garbage. Stop standing in the way of progress to satisfy your own need for self righteousness.

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Simple logic tells me the sign says "everyone is welcome", not "trans/non-binary people are fictional". Which I think is a stronger message to send than "this is a toilet".

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I'm glad you've been able to dismiss these concerns as (so far) illogical, self righteous and pure garbage.

I disagree with that being the message that trans and/or non-binary people might take from it, and that the icon of a toilet is enough to say that it's available for all without invoking images of things that are half-man-half-beast.

 

[Inugami]

I don't think all that time, effort and money is going in to gender neutral bathrooms just to make fun of people.

Simple logic tells me the sign says "everyone is welcome", not "trans/non-binary people are fictional". Which I think is a stronger message to send than "this is a toilet".

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The image on the left indicates male gender. The image on the right indicates female gender. Both clearly human beings.

This image signifies fictional creatures. People only put up signs like these in fantasy themed restaurants, or to "attack helicopter" non-binary or trans people who want to use the bathroom.

Again, it's meant to be a joke, but it's a joke that comes at the expense of people who constantly get made fun of. It's at the very best a weak ass joke told a million times, and more often it's used to belittle anyone who doesn't conform.

 

[FinKL]

I just saw this at a chain coffee shop, and I thought, omg this is a genius idea. It keeps 2 stalls always open vs one. No downside what so ever.

Hope this is a trend to the future

 

[SturokBGD]

Again, it's meant to be a joke, but it's a joke that comes at the expense of people who constantly get made fun of. It's at the very best a weak ass joke told a million times, and more often it's used to belittle anyone who doesn't conform.

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Counter-point: the sign is making fun of people who have a problem with trans/non-binary people using the same bathroom as them. Because there's literally no reason to have a problem with trans/non-binary people using the same bathroom.

Everyone is welcome, and I am not the bad guy you're looking for.

 

[Inugami]

Counter-point: the sign is making fun of people who have a problem with trans/non-binary people using the same bathroom as them. Because there's literally no reason to have a problem with trans/non-binary people using the same bathroom.

Everyone is welcome, and I am not the bad guy you're looking for.

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You're literally telling 2 non-binary people how to feel about this situation while also hand waving their concerns. You may not be a bad person, but you certainly aren't a beacon of respect you seem to think you are.

 

[Syriel]

California passed the Equal Restroom Access Act not too long ago which is why a majority of businesses I visit here have single-occupancy gender-neutral restrooms. I have never encountered a multi-user, gender-neutral restroom though. Didn't know we had those.

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Come to San Francisco. Go to the mall. Go to the main bathroom.

Hypothetically, if you were to go back in time and prevent gender-separated bathrooms from being invented in the first place, would that have caused any problems? How much of this is just societal momentum rather than practical issues?

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Blame conservatives.

Conservative men: Women are going to unjustly accuse me of being a pervert!
Conservative women: Men are all potential rapists!

Everyone else: Why can't you fuckers just be normal? Everybody poops.

For real tho, kids have never had a problem. It's just adults worried about "the other."

No urinals? Then it's perfect.

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No. Need to keep urinals, otherwise it'll be like commute hour on the Dan Ryan.

Enjoy your toilet bowls and floor drenched in piss, ladies.

Don't know how dirty can a public women's restroom be, but guys are fucking disgusting.

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Men: Our public bathrooms are disgusting.
Women: Hold my beer.

Just can't wrap my head around the safety argument. "People may engage in criminal activities" is not a right priority. "You don't get to see your rights respected because some other guy could abuse them/you" is downright lunacy.

However, the resistance to gender neutral bathrooms seem to come mostly from women, in my experience, and I don't really know what to make of it. Maybe just have gender neutral restrooms and women only restrooms? Women, trans or cis, use the bathroom they choose. Men use the gender neutral one. Would this solve anything?

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You would just be punishing men there, as everyone else could use 100% of the bathroom space, and men would only be allowed to use 50% of it.

 

[bulbasort]

Counter-point: the sign is making fun of people who have a problem with trans/non-binary people using the same bathroom as them. Because there's literally no reason to have a problem with trans/non-binary people using the same bathroom.

Everyone is welcome, and I am not the bad guy you're looking for.

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If the people you're supposedly trying to include have problems with your solution, listen to them.

 

[SturokBGD]

You're literally telling 2 non-binary people how to feel about this situation while also hand waving their concerns. You may not be a bad person, but you certainly aren't a beacon of respect you seem to think you are.

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I never said I was a beacon of anything, and you're free to feel however you want.

 

[Kyuuji]

Everyone is welcome, and I am not the bad guy you're looking for.

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Lol, alright Obi-Wan.

 

[Inugami]

I never said I was a beacon of anything, and you're free to feel however you want.

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I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, and respect your opinion while giving counter points. I'm listening to how you feel about the situation, and in return I'm telling you how me and other non-binary people feel. It's clear though that you don't want to discuss things, you want to assert and dismiss which is just disheartening.

If you have any empathy, I really suggest you take a few minutes and check out the non-binary thread and just read through the first page. This isn't about people's feelings being simply hurt, it's about a group of people that don't belong and that are constantly being sniped at. Sometimes in little ways like jokes about attack helicopters, and sometimes in big ways like being kicked out of family or friend groups or even worse. Trans and non-binary individuals are constantly being poked, prodded, insulted, and made fun of and all anyone is asking in this thread is to not make going to the bathroom yet another place to be ridiculed.

 

[BarryFishFinger]

I do a surprising amount of toilet design at work. I have no general issue with same sex toilets, in many ways it makes designing them a lot easier. The one issue is removing urinals though, they efficiently handle a large amount of men, if you have to change them to toilets then you're losing a lot of the capacity. Retrofitting this sort of arrangement to existing buildings will be a tricky prospect if you have to reduce WC capacity overall, building control and the regs aren't going to like it.

 

[Kyuuji]

Counter-point: the sign is making fun of people who have a problem with trans/non-binary people using the same bathroom as them. Because there's literally no reason to have a problem with trans/non-binary people using the same bathroom.

Everyone is welcome, and I am not the bad guy you're looking for.

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Why does having a mermaid or centaur icon mean more to you than the issues you're being told about, in favour of another icon (like a toilet) that is inclusive without the negative connotations that some perceive there to be?

If your aim is inclusion why are you arguing so fervently in favour of the option that people still find harmful?

 

[SturokBGD]

I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, and respect your opinion while giving counter points. I'm listening to how you feel about the situation, and in return I'm telling you how me and other non-binary people feel. It's clear though that you don't want to discuss things, you want to assert and dismiss which is just disheartening.

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Understood. I'll bow out here. My apologies.

 

[Owarifin]

We just got one at work this week.
Canada here... ;P