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Atom

Member
Jul 25, 2021
11,695
Guess Phil will now be a victim of... *checks notes* alt-right indoctrination.

FWIW steam does have a bad right wing recruiting problem. Some nazi gaming groups etc that have stuck around for too long.

That said, I think it's hard to paint it all with one brush because for all the toxicity I see in parts of the steam forums, theres often a lot of pushback against that sort of shitty rhetoric from the same communities. It really depends heavily on a game by game basis as well. As a result it's hard to assess exactly how widespread it is.

My only anecdotal perspective is I've used steam for 8 years or so actively, and have only sometimes brushed up against bigotry and the like, and usually it was removed following reports of community pushback. But I also don't play a lot of "Historical Simulator" games where I hear the problem is a lot worse.

Edit: this thread goes into some details and there are some external studies linked.

www.resetera.com

Steam has a right-wing extremism/racism problem on their discussion forums that needs to be addressed.

Specifically under the DEATHLOOP discussion threads I'm seeing tons of hate against people of color. People boycotting the game because it is "WOKE" and has a black protagonist. I...cannot believe that nobody at valve has tried to combat against this...
 

DaciaJC

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,685
Wow, I haven't read many of these EGS exclusivity threads, so I'm a bit shocked by the amount of ignorance and dismissal present here. Here's my small anecdotal reason for why I generally like buying games on Steam if I can: my DualShock 4 will usually work without any hassle due to SteamInput whereas I have to fiddle around with DS4Windows which I've found pretty unreliable for anything on EGS, Windows Store, etc. I have actually rebought games on Steam that I got for free on EGS purely for the controller support. Now that I'm also anticipating a Steam Deck, I have even more reason to wait for games to come to Steam for a more seamless, hassle-free experience.

Friends, Workshop, achievements, forums, etc. are nice bonuses for me as well.

Nice try, but we all know this is just code for "I worship Gaben's beard."
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,987
What should people discuss in the "Salt and Sacrifice for PC is launching exclusively on the Epic Games Store" thread?
I mean, what else is there to talk about? This is a thread about the game launching exclusively on EGS.

Fake edit: dammit Lash xD

I mean, sure, but this is literally like every other EGS exclusive title thread from any time in the past few years - derailed by shitposting antagonistic disingenuous arses. Discussion on if the game were worth going to EGS would be one thing, but Drek (to name just one) has just made this a Steam/EGS thread.
 

Philtastic

Member
Jan 3, 2018
593
Canada
Gabe's beard is truly glorious and the measure by which all men should be judged. That and our rugged independence, boot-strap lifting, and the lengths of our guns.

On topic, I have now also just seen that Valve will be classifying "every" game for Deck compatibility, which just highlights how much more effort seems to go into the Steam ecosystem.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,879
This is quite disappointing because Epic and Tim Sweeney are still stubbornly stuck on a strategy that has yielded very poor results. We have all seen EGS revenue data from the Epic vs Apple trial. Customers have overwhelmingly rejected the moneyhatting practice, yet they have responded much more favorably to Epic's consumer-friendly initiatives like the giveaways and the $10 coupons. It is time for Tim Sweeney to swallow his pride and accept that he can catch more flies with honey. There's nothing wrong with admitting to a mistake and trying to make amends. If Epic is to ever seriously challenge Valve's place in the market, it will have to earn customers' trust. There is no other way.
 

Stone Ocean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,629
i am rooting for this two people team so i'm happy they'll be getting that sweet epic money. hopefully disgruntled pc players would still support them on console if they absolutely can't accept buying a game on the egs
Considering the payouts EGS exclusives get regardless of success, I'm sure they can afford to not get sales from said disgruntled players.

Don't ask for pity money after winning a lottery.
 
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hydrophilic attack

Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,571
Sweden
Considering the payouts EGS exclusives get regardless of success, I'm they can afford to not get sales from said disgruntled players.

Don't ask for pity money after winning a lottery.
i mean if i buy the game i don't merely support the developers, i also buy a game that i will enjoy. i would say that is a fair exchange and not just pity money. or do you go around buying every game that is not launching exclusively on egs, regardless of whether you think you're going to enjoy it or not?
 

elyetis

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,570
Soon to be 2022 and people can still freely ignore at best, misconstruct at worst, dozen of threads, likely hundreds of posts.

A physical store, and a digital platform which sells games are not comparable. A store infrastruture has no direct impact on a product I buy past the buying experience itself ( except maybe for warranty ), a digital platform does ( success, sharing library, streaming, input, etc ).

Now that the most obvious is said.

How comes some people still don't get that when a product goes from one store to another.... price can also change ? It's not like we've had example of such change like 2 years ago now, how wait ?
What is the biggest differentiator for you ? how much it cost to buy a console compared to the ( free ) price of a new launcher ?

If so, let's ignore any other issue other than price then, and take Metro Exodus as an example, a steam key before the game became exclusive : 39.5€; EGS price in europe after the exclusivity deal : 59.99€.
If every games were to be similary impacted, the increase in cost given how much I spend in games, would cover more than the cost of a ps4 pro.. every year.

Now I could feel good about posting all this but I'm not, because you know, it's like the 40th time I do so in the past two years, so I can already tell that the people this post is directed at will ignore it, and be back at saying things that are factually false in the next thread. Again. And Again.
 

Nacho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
NYC
Well the good thing about this is that im sure itll eventually be the free game of the week on egs lol.

Personally i dont mind this, I use EGS for a handful of games so its no skin off my back, but i get why people can be annoyed by this sort of exclusivity even if I dont quite get the level of vitriol that sometimes happens around it.
 

Jamesac68

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,442
lmaoooooo

Anyway, I still haven't even played the first game. Can't blame such a tiny team for wanting Epic's money, though.

This right here is why I don't have an issue with the EGS exclusivity. Devs need money. EGS provides it up front. Games get made that would have otherwise struggled. It's not perfect but it's a system that's currently working. Everyone knows (or should know) it won't last forever but for now the lucky people to get the EGS moneyhat are getting a much better shot at their games becoming what they hope to be. If it takes a year for the game to hit Steam, that's fine. It will get there eventually after all.
 

razakin

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
294
Finland
This is quite disappointing because Epic and Tim Sweeney are still stubbornly stuck on a strategy that has yielded very poor results. We have all seen EGS revenue data from the Epic vs Apple trial. Customers have overwhelmingly rejected the moneyhatting practice, yet they have responded much more favorably to Epic's consumer-friendly initiatives like the giveaways and the $10 coupons. It is time for Tim Sweeney to swallow his pride and accept that he can catch more flies with honey. There's nothing wrong with admitting to a mistake and trying to make amends. If Epic is to ever seriously challenge Valve's place in the market, it will have to earn customers' trust. There is no other way.
Really would like to see how the strategy of games in EGS would be cheaper thanks to that 12% cut compared to Steam or other platforms, I'd feel like it would have worked better than exclusives. Especially seeing how people even here are always looking for the cheaper price for their games. Though, in the other hand, that 12% doesn't allow 3rd party sellers to give those nice launch discounts you see time to time, so there wouldn't be that nice of launch discount, but could have general cheaper price, which probably would have driven more people to to check the store.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,879
Really would like to see how the strategy of games in EGS would be cheaper thanks to that 12% cut compared to Steam or other platforms, I'd feel like it would have worked better than exclusives. Especially seeing how people even here are always looking for the cheaper price for their games. Though, in the other hand, that 12% doesn't allow 3rd party sellers to give those nice launch discounts you see time to time, so there wouldn't be that nice of launch discount, but could have general cheaper price, which probably would have driven more people to to check the store.

Absolutely. A cheaper price due to the smaller cut would be a great incentive to go for the EGS version of the game. Unfortunately you can't please both customers and developers because if the savings from the reduced cut go to the customer then the developer doesn't get any extra money. Epic chose to prioritize develeopers over customers on this matter because it needed developer support to get the store off the ground.
 

Deleted member 12867

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,623
You also don't go to a different supermarket if the one you frequent doesn't happen to carry the item you're looking for?

This mindset is ridiculous and it's frankly quite funny there's still posts like this in 2021 lol
I mean comparing the feature sets of the two stores it would be more akin to going to a supermarket without lights and you have to carry all your groceries in your hands.

Why are people allowed to post bait like this and then never respond to support their initial post.
 
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tmarg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,696
Kalamazoo
Absolutely. A cheaper price due to the smaller cut would be a great incentive to go for the EGS version of the game. Unfortunately you can't please both customers and developers because if the savings from the reduced cut go to the customer then the developer doesn't get any extra money. Epic chose to prioritize develeopers over customers on this matter because it needed developer support to get the store off the ground.
It probably also wouldn't move the needle much, at best their prices would be in line with third party steam key sellers, and those come with both lower prices and the superior platform.
 

Lashley

<<Tag Here>>
Member
Oct 25, 2017
60,386
I mean comparing the feature sets of the two stores it would be more akin to going to a supermarket without lights and you have to carry all your groceries in your hands.

Why are people allowed to post bait like this and then never respond to support their initial post.
Always been allowed, it's why most of the community just left
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,879
It probably also wouldn't move the needle much, at best their prices would be in line with third party steam key sellers, and those come with both lower prices and the superior platform.

True, which would be true competition that benefits customers. It would push Epic to rapidly improve its quality of service and offer even more to customers to earn their business. Instead we have Epic's brand of competition that results in the service only now officially adding an achievement system after three years in the market and still lacking a shopping cart. This is why I and many others have pointed out the fallacy of the "Epic is competing with Valve and competition is good" argument. Yes, competition is good when it forces companies to improve and offer more to customers. It isn't good when it's about removing options and encouraging complacency. Epic can and should do better.
 

Mentalist

Member
Mar 14, 2019
18,210
Nah. Been on this forum, other online forums, etc. well before Origin, uPlay, etc. existed, including lots of PC only spaces.

Here's an April 2019 Announcement Trailer for Star Wars: Jedi Fallen Order. I found one person asking if it might come to Steam, yet zero bitching about what was, at the time, an EA Origin exclusive.

Suddenly it gets announced for Steam two weeks before release and there was a lot of pro-Steam commentary in the release trailer thread.

And the announcement thread had an order of magnitude more posts.

No one has given a shit about EA Origin for half a decade. The most discussion EA Origin specifically has gotten on here or in online discourse period in that time, other than mild grumbling about using it with Titanfall/Titanfall 2/Apex Legends was when EA came back to Steam.

We don't get this kind of constant noise in Windows Game Pass threads and that storefront is soft-bricking drives.

We don't get this kind of reaction in literally every Ubisoft/uPlay thread, including the ones where Ubi tries to talk up their storefront or pushes their sub service.

GOG gets treated like a welcome second son around here when it announces things despite at least its social media platform being ran by active bigots, to step a bit further from the context of exclusivity.

EGS absolutely is treated with a double standard relative to other non-Steam storefronts, and often with fewer real exclusives in its catalog than the counterparts.

I'd argue the Epic/Tim Sweeney absolutely welcomed that. It'd be entirely deserved if applied with a slight bit of restraint instead of all EGS threads going into the ditch, but it would still be a double standard relative to other store fronts.

My personal suspicion is that most of the other storefronts were just far easier to ignore. EGS has picked up meaningful exclusives across all genres of PC games while uPlay lives within a very specific genre box for most of its major titles, and Origin's non-sports and FPS offerings were irrelevant enough for them to abandon full exclusivity entirely now. EGS hits a wide enough range of titles to where they're going to antagonize most of the PC gaming audience with at least one of their pickups, drawing them a unique amount of heat that they messaged in the worst possible way. We can debate as to whether a narrative exists that would have actually worked for them, but the anti-Steam narrative is probably the single worst angle they could have intentionally chosen to go down.
Other stores didn't run a smear campaign and force rhetoric down our throats about being the saviors PC Gaming needed, but so many deluded PC gamers were too stupid to realize it.

Everything about the rollout of EGS was aimed at developers, which makes sense.
However, the second the consumers asked "so why exactly should we be excited to pay more (in many cases, due to EGS' initial poor international currency support) for less?" the amount of backlash from Epic adepts, as well as most of the gaming media was enormous. Leading to escalations where some shitheads started doxxing and threatening devs who revealed their exclusivity deals (which was obviously a terrible thing that should not have happened. Period).

The other thing this escalation led to was that a lot of actual reasonable criticisms of EGS ended up lumped together with the 1-liners "no steam, no buy".

I prefer to buy my games on GOG whenever possible, even if I have to pay a bit more than I would on Steam; GOG has its niche and its DRM-free philosophy that gives it an identity and a consumer base.

EGS couldn't offer anything to the consumers at launch, so instead it started with " steam bad and you should feel bad for using Steam, so give us money instead, because EGS good"

All the proprietary launchers were upfront about their motives; EGS tried to make their UPS a literal moral crusade. That's why it continues to get so much resigned vitriol.
 

Teamocil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,140
Man just buy your game and go, damn. Y'all don't have to pretend the reasons people don't bother with EGS haven't been reiterated over and over and over again
To be fair, the same could be said of people that go to every EGS thread and say "guess it comes out next year" lol. Like both sides of this coin are a bit ridiculous
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,486
reset-the-clock-pacific-rim.gif

Lol!

I'm happy for the studio, I will get it on the PS5 myself, did enjoy the co-op side of the first one very much, and I love the art design (even if I'm on the minority there it seems)
 

Falk

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,129
i feel like even in 2021 EGS exclusivity is a valid marketing tactic because the announce thread stays on Page 1 of ERA for like 2 weeks instead of getting 2 replies and fading

epic should charge devs for this service instead of paying them money
 

tmarg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,696
Kalamazoo
i feel like even in 2021 EGS exclusivity is a valid marketing tactic because the announce thread stays on Page 1 of ERA for like 2 weeks instead of getting 2 replies and fading

epic should charge devs for this service instead of paying them money
Meanwhile, in the real world, epic is bleeding hundreds of millions of dollars doing this, and very few titles actually earn back their guaranteed sales.
 

Maedhros

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,873
i feel like even in 2021 EGS exclusivity is a valid marketing tactic because the announce thread stays on Page 1 of ERA for like 2 weeks instead of getting 2 replies and fading

epic should charge devs for this service instead of paying them money
It would if it meant more sales... what it does is just make people wait for free shit, really. I think most users on Epic just wait for them to release the games for free, as the numbers from the Epic lawsuit shows us.

At least we had some very nice bans from this shitstorm, so there's that. Also, more people going into my ignore list, for arguing in bad faith.
 

Tya

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,669
It would if it meant more sales... what it does is just make people wait for free shit, really. I think most users on Epic just wait for them to release the games for free, as the numbers from the Epic lawsuit shows us.

At least we had some very nice bans from this shitstorm, so there's that. Also, more people going into my ignore list, for arguing in bad faith.

How many epic exclusives have ended up being given away for free?
 

Atom

Member
Jul 25, 2021
11,695
Where can I read about EpicGameStore sales-revenue-profit?

A lot of it was brought up from documents revealed during the apple lawsuit. Cant find the original docs but this article here has some points

www.gamesindustry.biz

Three key discoverability takeaways from the Epic/Apple lawsuit

[The GameDiscoverCo game discovery newsletter is written by 'how people find your game' expert and GameDiscoverCo found…

You might also look for the threads from around the time via search filters. Dont remember the dates off the top of my head but should be easy to find.

To be fair, the same could be said of people that go to every EGS thread and say "guess it comes out next year" lol. Like both sides of this coin are a bit ridiculous

Its kind of interesting because it sort of gets back to the question of 'if a game comes out on a platform that people refuse to use or have no interest in, might it just as well not exist?'

I mean of course technically the game is out. But when Steam is so synonymous with PC gamers, it's sort of like if a dev was to release a game exclusively on, idk, Wii U but there was an announcement that there would be a future port for modern consoles. The game would probably be rightfully treated as if it might as well not exist until it came to a new platform, and the sales numbers show as much with EGS. We saw this on a much smaller scale with Samus Returns and other games that released for 3DS well after the switch's launch.

Like earlier this year, the unthinkable happened. All the kingdom hearts games are on PC! Except there's no way you'd know that unless you specifically looked for that news. There's hardly any discussion around it at all.

When people say "guess it comes out next year" its needlessly glib and flippant, but it's also rooted in the reality that the inertia that Steam has basically makes it so that anything but the standard Ubisoft fare might as well not exist in the cultural zeitgeist until it comes to Steam etc.

But I agree that it would be nice if people would stop with the "game? What game?" sort of rhetoric. Saying that you'll wait for a steam release is one thing, but the other is a bit needlessly provocative.
 
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Tpallidum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,178
Oh well. There's plenty of other games to play.
Good for them though I guess. Can't say I wouldn't do the same if I was a dev but it does suck as a consumer
 

SweetBellic

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,451
i am rooting for this two people team so i'm happy they'll be getting that sweet epic money. hopefully disgruntled pc players would still support them on console if they absolutely can't accept buying a game on the egs
Why would I buy the game on console? As someone who primarily and enthusiastically plays games on PC, I'm not going to protest exclusivity deals with Epic by supporting some other closed platform that also engages in cheap timed exclusivity tactics. If I do ever support this two person team it will be when their game comes to Steam and no sooner.
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,987
User Warned: Inappropriate Internet Detective Work
Why would I buy the game on console? As someone who primarily and enthusiastically plays games on PC, I'm not going to protest exclusivity deals with Epic by supporting some other closed platform that also engages in cheap timed exclusivity tactics. If I do ever support this two person team it will be when their game comes to Steam and no sooner.

I'm trying to find confirmation, but basically I've read that Michelle is no longer at Ska (so is it still a 2 person dev team?), her and James are no longer married, and James is minimising Michelle's contributions to their past games. Which, if true, forget about EGS... there's a more ethical reason for giving the sequel a pass.

And I'll say that the only thing I can find for sure is that Michelle is no longer at Ska
Mod Edit: Removed LinkedIn link
 
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hydrophilic attack

Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,571
Sweden
Why would I buy the game on console?
i dunno, maybe if you want to play the game as early as possible because you're interested in the game, but don't want to give epic your money?

i suppose this boils down to the wider question of why would you buy any game day one? i presume, because you would be sufficiently interested in the game to want to play it as early as possible.

in some situations, maybe other factors outweighs one's desire to play the game day one, which would then cause one not to buy it. such factors may include, but are not limited to:

1. one does not want to support a bigoted developer

2. one does not want to support a product deceloped under worker exploitation and crunch

3. one does not want to support an industry reliant on hardware manufactured with slave labour

4. one does not own the hardware necessary to play the game day one

5. one does not want to support a developer that chose to release their game on digital storefront x instead of digital storefront y

i guess under capitalism, not buying something is the only way one can protest grave injustices like the above, so yeah i fully understand if someone doesn't want to buy a product if doing so would be at odds with one's ethics
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
This is quite disappointing because Epic and Tim Sweeney are still stubbornly stuck on a strategy that has yielded very poor results. We have all seen EGS revenue data from the Epic vs Apple trial. Customers have overwhelmingly rejected the moneyhatting practice, yet they have responded much more favorably to Epic's consumer-friendly initiatives like the giveaways and the $10 coupons. It is time for Tim Sweeney to swallow his pride and accept that he can catch more flies with honey. There's nothing wrong with admitting to a mistake and trying to make amends. If Epic is to ever seriously challenge Valve's place in the market, it will have to earn customers' trust. There is no other way.
agreed.
 

Deleted member 93841

User-requested account closure
Banned
Mar 17, 2021
4,580
You also don't go to a different supermarket if the one you frequent doesn't happen to carry the item you're looking for?

This mindset is ridiculous and it's frankly quite funny there's still posts like this in 2021 lol

Why should people buy something on a game client they don't like? Most of the games I bought on EGS, I rebought on Steam anyway, so I might as well do my wallet a favor and wait a year. It's not like there's a lack of games for me to play in the meantime.

Why are you so pressed about where people prefer to buy their games?
 

FuzzyWuzzy

Prophet of Truth
Member
Apr 7, 2019
2,098
Austria
I'm trying to find confirmation, but basically I've read that Michelle is no longer at Ska (so is it still a 2 person dev team?), her and James are no longer married, and James is minimising Michelle's contributions to their past games. Which, if true, forget about EGS... there's a more ethical reason for giving the sequel a pass.

And I'll say that the only thing I can find for sure is that Michelle is no longer at Ska
Mod Edit: Removed LinkedIn link
Well damn thanks for letting me know
 
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Deleted member 93841

User-requested account closure
Banned
Mar 17, 2021
4,580
Its kind of interesting because it sort of gets back to the question of 'if a game comes out on a platform that people refuse to use or have no interest in, might it just as well not exist?'

This is already happening, I think. Look at a game like Old World, a really interesting Civ-like game that is exclusive to the EGS. Sure, the devs probably got a fat stack of money from Epic to make it exclusive to their storefront, but who actually knows that it exists outside of a couple of niche communities dedicated to that kind of game? Ask about it in the wider gaming community and most people would have no idea what you're talking about.

Sounds like it's finally coming to Steam next year, so it would be interesting to see how it does then.

Absolutely. A cheaper price due to the smaller cut would be a great incentive to go for the EGS version of the game. Unfortunately you can't please both customers and developers because if the savings from the reduced cut go to the customer then the developer doesn't get any extra money. Epic chose to prioritize develeopers over customers on this matter because it needed developer support to get the store off the ground.

I remember a couple of times while reading things about/by Sweeney, he gave me the strong impression that customer satisfaction is largely irrelevant to Epic, as long as developers "thrive" on the EGS. I wondered back then how he expected developers to thrive if he shunned the customers like that and here we are. The EGS has been around for a couple of years and the opposition to it is still as strong as ever. You've even got people like me, who were initially not opposed to buying from EGS, but now rather waits until the games become available on Steam instead.
 
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GrrImAFridge

ONE THOUSAND DOLLARYDOOS
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,697
Western Australia
This is quite disappointing because Epic and Tim Sweeney are still stubbornly stuck on a strategy that has yielded very poor results. We have all seen EGS revenue data from the Epic vs Apple trial. Customers have overwhelmingly rejected the moneyhatting practice, yet they have responded much more favorably to Epic's consumer-friendly initiatives like the giveaways and the $10 coupons. It is time for Tim Sweeney to swallow his pride and accept that he can catch more flies with honey. There's nothing wrong with admitting to a mistake and trying to make amends. If Epic is to ever seriously challenge Valve's place in the market, it will have to earn customers' trust. There is no other way.

Sweeney said during the Apple trial that Epic doesn't expect EGS to reach operational profitability until 2023, so it's only a little more than a year away from ending its "user acquisition phase". That doesn't necessarily mean there won't be more exclusivity deals announced in 2023, but Epic's spending in that area has been trending downwards since last year, with a much larger focus on indies and AA titles over AAA releases, so I do think the deals are just a stopgap until its publishing label is putting out games it actually funded with some sort of regular cadence.
 
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Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
I'm trying to find confirmation, but basically I've read that Michelle is no longer at Ska (so is it still a 2 person dev team?), her and James are no longer married, and James is minimising Michelle's contributions to their past games. Which, if true, forget about EGS... there's a more ethical reason for giving the sequel a pass.

And I'll say that the only thing I can find for sure is that Michelle is no longer at Ska
Mod Edit: Removed LinkedIn link
Damn…
 
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Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,879
I remember a couple of times while reading things about/by Sweeney, he gave me the strong impression that customer satisfaction is largely irrelevant to Epic, as long as developers "thrive" on the EGS. I wondered back then how he expected developers to thrive if he shunned the customers like that and here we are. The EGS has been around for a couple of years and the opposition to it is still as strong as ever. You've even got people like me, who were initially not opposed to buying from EGS, but now rather waits until the games become available on Steam instead.

I get the feeling that Epic, the developers that signed on and game journalists did not expect the backlash to meaningfully affect sales. They all operated under the assumption that those protesting would only be a handful of people on the internet that they could easily dismiss and smear as "Gamerz", while regular customers would happily buy the moneyhatted games on EGS. They were hilariously wrong.
 

FliX

Master of the Reality Stone
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,926
Metro Detroit
Seems to me this thread has run its course and devolved into arguments along common fault lines.
 
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