I honestly didn't even know any of the characters smoked. I don't remember noticing it in the first 3 games.
I had originally just thought it was because of the esports image thing.
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Gears 5 will not feature any depictions of smoking and the series will not highlight or glorify smoking moving forward
- Thread starter vestan
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I had originally just thought it was because of the esports image thing.
I really can't remember off the top of my head any standout moments of the characters smoking, so this doesn't really affect me.
And if it's a personal choice from the dev team, who am I to disagree? Still looking forward to Gears 5.
And if it's a personal choice from the dev team, who am I to disagree? Still looking forward to Gears 5.
What this boils down to is that a third party group... lobbied Eleague... to remove smoking for Gears 5 and they capitulated.
I don't get the defense of this? Again Smoking is an abhorrent practice. Damaging to those that do it and those who inhale second hand smoke. I don't think anybody in this thread has actually defended smoking. You have to be clinically insane to defend that practice.
But crucially this debate has nothing to do with smoking.
What happens when next year another group demands they include or exclude another feature, regardless of how invalid/valid you consider that feature or mechanic to be. It's the definition of a slippery slope.
I don't get the defense of this? Again Smoking is an abhorrent practice. Damaging to those that do it and those who inhale second hand smoke. I don't think anybody in this thread has actually defended smoking. You have to be clinically insane to defend that practice.
But crucially this debate has nothing to do with smoking.
What happens when next year another group demands they include or exclude another feature, regardless of how invalid/valid you consider that feature or mechanic to be. It's the definition of a slippery slope.
Youi don't get the defense but i don't get the controversy by removing it? Ferguson already said he had close people to him that died of lung cancer, makes perfect sense to me why he might not want to glamorize it. There are actors who do films who feel the same way. Don't like it make your own game.
In losing character & personality in service of... sending a good message? Hell, even it's frickin' name was changed. Ridiculous if you ask me, especially being a game where you can use a chainsaw to split someone in 2.
There is a clear loss in connection to its audience in the latest entries.
... I don't think removing it is the definition of a slippery slope any more than gay marriage is a slippery slope to beastiality as we were warned way back when.
Smoking serves zero gameplay or story purpose ever, removing it is super easy and not even noticeable.
It honestly feels like people are just desperate to be upset over something here
My thoughts exactly
When it becomes an issue of actual importance that is being removed then we can have a serious discussion
People want to pretend to be smart tbh, it's the only reason you see so many weirdos posting whataboutisms
I dont care either way, as long as it was the developers choice without any outside pressures. In general im very anti censorship
Actually, no. There's no loss in 'character and personality' since smoking was never a big thing in the previous games. As others have already said.
The name was changed because everyone just calls it 'Gears'. Has nothing to do with anyone's enjoyment of the game.
The chainsaw bit has already been answered multiple times, and is comprehensively addressed in the OP article. There's no link between video game violence and real world violence. Numerous studies have linked teen and young adult smoking to depictions in the media.
The last game had a metacritic of 84 and the vast majority of the critique it faced was as a result of being rather 'more of the same' rather than being innovative. So no, it hasn't been drifting away from fans and there hasn't really been a clear loss in connection.
User Banned (1 Week): Concern trolling and spreading conspiracy theories over a series of posts in this thread.
Some outside group forced the change and now Rod is trying to spin it like he's been against smoking from way back. I don't doubt he's being genuine about how cancer has affected his life for the negative, it has had a negative effect in terms of loss in mine also.
My point is that it was an outside group that forced this change, regardless of his or our preference for the practice. It's a slippery slope when creativity is forced to change due to pressure from outside organisations who have nothing to do with gaming.
I don't know where you're going with this but I can't join you in that discussion. If you want to get back to the topic at hand then sure but I don't see how Gay Marriage has anything to do with this debate.
We don't want to go down that slipperly slope by removing smoking from games? Talk about over exaggerating. Why does everything have to be a worse case scenario on the internet?
You don't recognize my side of the debate so I should stop posting? I though this forum was designed specifically for debate around gaming topics?
I was under the assumption that game development was a creative process. The fact that an outside group has that much sway over what can and can't be in gaming is alarming to me. For the (what feels like) 100th time. Smoking in the real world is a disgusting and damaging to health habit.
But nobody seems to want to address the fact that an outside organization has that level of reach to "strip" out of the creative process something that they don't agree with. It seems people are morphing my issue into me somehow being pro smoking as a way to defend this or skirt what has actually happened here.
Truth be told that is really weird. I'm beginning to think that if it was another ip we'd probably be able to discuss the issue of outside influence without insults.
An argument used against gay marriage was that it would be a slippery slope to other things (none of which have materialised). Your argument against this is that it is a slippery slope to censorship (which I'm arguing similarly will never materialise).
I'm using an example to show that it's silly to think removing smoking, a highly dangerous and unpopular thing, is a slippery slope to anything else.
Dude. No outside group "stripped them out of a creative process". They chose to do this cause they thought it was the right decision to make. Imagine giving this much of a fuck and making so much hay out of devs removing cigs from a video game. It's a nothing sandwich. Not even a big or medium deal. The lowest of the lows of giving a shit about.
Killing someone with a chainsaw is a mostly fantasy thing. You can do it, yeah, but it's not something you can emulate nearly as easy as you can just go to the supermarket and get some cigarettes.
Oh, so because it's Gears of War you are getting insulted? To me it is not shocking at all given how this is going to be broadcast on public events. That's just the reality we live in today. Many countries now no longer allow smoking in hotel rooms, restaurants and so on. So you can think this is some collusion to the art all you want but this is just the reality of today when games are part of Esports or streamed live and so on.
I think you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.
It's funny how people can get to that conclusion so quickly like as if that is some awesome counter debating skill. Murder is not tolerable at all and most people do not go and kill someone because they are influenced by media. Some try to link the two but that would be almost impossible and likely due to the person having issues to begin with. Smoking on the other hand has been proven to be highly influencial and why some actors now don't want to depict that in movies or TV anymore.
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The difference here is context. In my humble opinion it's a disservice to the fight for equality to equate a demopgraphic of people who have endured institutionalized denigration, a people who have often suffered physical abuse, and to this day are still risk being killed over who they choose to love... With a discussion over video game creativity/censorship.
They're not one and the same and because of that can't continue the discussion with you. And I mean that with all the respect a person can convey over the internet.
Though please remember to buy our Limited Edition Taco Bell meal or Rockstar Energy Drink.
You know how many steak burritos I ate trying to win an X?
Internet needs to manufacture outrage about something everyday. It's this today.
If they'd said 'we're adding more smoking into gears 5!' we'd have people frothing about how bad smoking is and how evil publishers are!
There is nothing wrong with the removal of cigs, but at the same time there is no reason to celebrate The Coalition when they had no choice or opinion in the matter, and were simply mandated to do so by higher ups who were under pressure from a broadcast partner of their parent company.
I find Rod jumping in with how much it suddenly means to him to be distasteful.
So I see from where you are coming.
the guy lost his father from complications from smoking how gross can you people be
Sure then, Gears of War franchise is perfect and better than ever.
Good on them. And I say this as a smoker.
Just not sure if by bring it up resulted the attention that they thought they would.
Just not sure if by bring it up resulted the attention that they thought they would.
Some of you seem like you're trying really hard to find controversy here, when there really is none.
I think a lot of it is getting lost in the sauce so to speak. I Guess I didn't think a studio comprised of some of the best in the industry working with an ip gamers hold near and dear were subject to the whims of some outside organization. People seem to be fixated on the smoking aspect, while to me that's beside the point. If you read the article it spells out that some outside organization mandated the change and it's that point, specifically, that I find alarming. I don't doubt that Rod was affected by smoking. I live in the UK where cancer affects 1 in 3 people. But the IP has included smoking since it's debut in 2006. With the change coming after their Eleague plans were threatened.
But I think that the ip means too much to some and so, any negative, is seen as a negative directed at the ip, here on era.
Outside of era the conversation the conversation about this topic is vastly different. At least with every XBOX gaming personality across the various social media platforms. But hey...
because gamers are rising up
how dare they take away free publicity for tobacco companies, who have been profiting from war and addicted veterans for a century.
how dare a studio head take a personal stand on an issue that he has clearly stated is important to him. he's clearly just an opportunistic SJW bowing to ***""""((((EXTERNAL PRESSURE))))""""*** or something.
how dare games change during production, it's practically theft, murder, and adultery at once. they should give fans what they want, never mind that not a single fan actually cares if their fictional war heroes smoke or not because this is a game where you shoot and chainsaw aliens in half with your friends.
gamers rise up
I really don't understand modern game developers these days on the stuff they choose to censor, take out, ect.
Like, why single out smoking in a game that's more than likely intended for mature audiences?
Like, why single out smoking in a game that's more than likely intended for mature audiences?