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VanDoughnut

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,424
I'm not meaning to dismiss the pacing and experience behind TLoU, but I do understand these criticisms. I think the active vs passive "question" of game design is a personal one, and some games are right to lean more heavily on basically "sitting the player down" when it's trying to get something across.

Generally speaking, the more a game keeps its full impact when viewed as something like a Youtube video, the more clear it is the interactivity wasn't linchpin to what people get out of it. If we're considering the best games over the past decade, a game that's memorable for mostly the same reasons a great movie would be won't stand out to all players. No one is saying "games can't use cutscenes."

I really don't think watching cutscenes of TLOU on YouTube is comparable to experiencing the whole thing through a play through.

You kinda get the bullet points and story beats, but there's way more in actually experiencing it.
 

Earthed

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Sep 26, 2019
494
I'm not meaning to dismiss the pacing and experience behind TLoU, but I do understand these criticisms. I think the active vs passive "question" of game design is a personal one, and some games are right to lean more heavily on basically "sitting the player down" when it's trying to get something across.

Generally speaking, the more a game keeps its full impact when viewed as something like a Youtube video, the more clear it is the interactivity wasn't linchpin to what people get out of it. If we're considering the best games over the past decade, a game that's memorable for mostly the same reasons a great movie would be won't stand out to all players. No one is saying "games can't use cutscenes."
I'm not saying it should stand out to all player, of course. Game of the decade is going to be something different to everyone anyway, so I'm not trying to make this in to a definitive thing. But they're called video games for a reason. It's a visual medium, and the visual language set in stone over the past century of film is as much part of video games as the game language being created to this day is.
 

RROCKMAN

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,828
Video games are an interactive medium. They are also a visual medium, like films are. That they borrow for them is not to their detriment. Sometimes it's best to take away control from the player to get something across.

I'd only agree with this if story beat inparticular could not be done through gameplay.

Brother a tale of two sons big twist has incredible impact that could only have been done through video games, and there are certain visual novels that accomplish similar feats through creative use of the medium.

Hell, even as far back as Final Fantasy 7 for ps1 had
the scene before Areith's death where you play a mind controlled Cloud and and you are forced to press the action button to continue which in turn gets Cloud into a position to cut her in half while the player watches
all have way more impact by incorporating player agency into the mix.
 

Majukun

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,542
Your proposal is basically to throw away everything that works. Hardly constructive, and definitely not helpful.

Why do you need to be straightforward? Because we live in the real world, where you don't just reinvent the wheel out of some twisted sense of purity. You use a cutscene because it's the best tool for the job. Also, because technological limitations (cutscene render quality is higher), time limitation (why devise some convoluted way to hit the same notes with pure gameplay when a cutscene works better anyway), limitations of the kind of game you're making (you just can't read facial movements well in third person), ... There are plenty of very good reasons to use the best tool for the job, and I can't believe I'm wasting my time trying to convey this to you.
You do realize that most of art and new art periods started by someone discarding the previous best tool for the job right?

Anyway, let's just agree to disagree at this point, this discussion is going nowhere
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,716
United Kingdom
Solid choice, TLOU is one of my favourite games ever made. Top quality storytelling and voice acting, far better than most video games at the time.

For me it would be between TLOU, The Witcher 3, Horizon, and God of War.
 

KodiakGTS

Member
Jun 4, 2018
1,098
In what way has Breadth of the Wild or GTAV influenced the industry?

I would argue that the quality of BoTW helped put the switch on the trajectory it is now. It also drastically changed the formula of a traditional tent pole franchise, which will perhaps embolden Nintendo to continue to do so with other franchises.

GTAV set the standard for persistent online updates and monetization (for better or worse), leading to $6 billion in revenue and it becoming the third best selling game of all time.
 
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Earthed

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Sep 26, 2019
494
I'd only agree with this if story beat inparticular could not be done through gameplay.

Brother a tale of two sons big twist has incredible impact that could only have been done through video games, and there are certain visual novels that accomplish similar feats through creative use of the medium.

Hell, even as far back as Final Fantasy 7 for ps1 had
the scene before Areith's death where you play a mind controlled Cloud and and you are forced to press the action button to continue which in turn gets Cloud into a position to cut her in half while the player watches
all have way more impact by incorporating player agency into the mix.
I never said that you can't tell a great narrative through gameplay. But that does not take away from the effectiveness that cutscenes can deliver emotional scenes with either. And again, it's not like TLOU doesn't do that type of stuff either. For example, the boost mechanic subversion that I mentioned before.
You do realize that most of art and new art periods started by someone discarding the previous best tool for the job right?

Anyway, let's just agree to disagree at this point, this discussion is going nowhere
Just because something is avant-garde, that doesn't make it inherently better. And no, "most art and new art periods" most definitely didn't start with a guy going "I'm going to not do this thing now just because!". Most new art and new art periods are borne from very complex culture forces and movements.
 

Toriko

Banned
Dec 29, 2017
7,711
I would argue that the quality of BoTW helped put the switch on the trajectory it is now. It also drastically changed the formula of a traditional tent pole franchise, which will perhaps embolden Nintendo to continue to do so with other franchises.

GTAV set the standard for persistent online updates and monetization (for better or worse), leading $6 billion in revenue and it becoming the third best selling game of all time.

Best selling game does not necessarily mean it influences game design to this day. GTA3 was far more of an influence in this regard. BOTW sold well but has not really altered the gaming landscape in any way. PubG for example popularized an entire new mode and is far more influential than BOTW.
 

CurseVox

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,356
Massachusetts (USA)
I can't argue that choice. I loved every second of that game. Also, it's the only video game I have ever played that made me for real cry. Any media that can evoke that kind of emotion out of my cold dead heart, is something special.
 

KodiakGTS

Member
Jun 4, 2018
1,098
Best selling game does not necessarily mean it influences game design to this day. GTA3 was far more of an influence in this regard. BOTW sold well but has not really altered the gaming landscape in any way. PubG for example popularized an entire new mode and is far more influential than BOTW.

Agreed with regards to GTA3. I guess when I was saying influenced the industry I wasn't speaking solely to game design, although you could certainly argue that should be the primary focus for a game of the decade discussion.
 

Dennis8K

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,161
Absolutely not.

While the story was very good, the gameplay just was nowhere good enough to warrant game of the decade.
 

azfaru

Banned
Dec 1, 2017
2,275
I can get behind that choice. Was one of those games I was profoundly impacted by and lingered well after the credits.

But personally it's gotta be Destiny. Like it or not, It's one of the most influential game in the past decade and I still feel it's impact is underrated. Shared world. Looter shooter. Raids. Even the UI has been copied too.
 

SteelOak

Member
Oct 28, 2017
154
Not if you want to play it as a stealth game :/
Story is OK , but gameplay and design in this game is sometimes really bad.
 

XaviConcept

Art Director for Videogames
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,913
Not even close for me but seems like a popular choice and it's definitely well made.

For me, a game ofthe decade needs to have a bigger focus on gameplay. Dark Souls or BotW come to mind
 

Aaron D.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,332
I don't know if it fully encapsulates gaming as a whole for the decade, but I don't think there is one game that could.

I think this cuts to the heart of it.

The gaming landscape is just too broad and diverse to suggest that a single title towers above all.

TLOU may be best in class for its genre, but that genre is only a sliver of the overall picture of what's on offer within the medium.

When I see a AAA prestige 3rd-person narrative adventure declared greatest game of the DECADE(!!!), I just kinda shrug and say, "Okay?" The genre itself does absolutely nothing for me and bears little resemblance to what I find valuable and entertaining in the medium. Doesn't mean I'm unable to recognize the quality & craftsmanship on offer, just means that it doesn't speak to me in any way beyond an appreciation for the talent that goes into the more heralded titles within it.

This makes singular Best of Decade proclamations seem kind of trivial in that context as it lacks any true, genuine representation of the medium overall.

Best Prestige 3rd-person Narrative Adventure? Sure, why not. Best Overall Game of the Decade? Eh, that's a little harder to swallow as its comparative myopic scope is meaningless in a sea of such great diversity.

(I'd also add that I have my own ideas on Best of the Decade between a few titles more suited to my tastes, but fully understand those choices are also completely meaningless when leveled against the myriad of other heavy-hitters of the 2010s...and yes, that includes TLOU.)