Not to mention some of the best TLOU moments come from the gameplay. Like with the ladder sequence just before the Giraffes and how it uses that simple mechanic to subvert your expectations.
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Gamesradar names The Last of Us as the GAME OF THE DECADE
- Thread starter Grayson
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Not to mention some of the best TLOU moments come from the gameplay. Like with the ladder sequence just before the Giraffes and how it uses that simple mechanic to subvert your expectations.
No one tell those people that film is just aping theater for a ton of its visual and narrative storytelling techniques
Game of the Decade is such an extreme accolade... to claim one game defined an entire generation of gaming. I feel like you need to clear an extra high hurdle to be the undisputed best and to be worthy of that accolade.
I don't think that in this epic decade of gaming that the Last of Us stands out head and shoulders above some of the other games that made their mark. And I don't think this game defined a specific genre.
It was a really, really good game. But so were many others. It didn't define or alter this era of gaming... outside of encouraging other developers to either match or exceed their quality. That's why I can't agree with this.
Red Dead Redemption set the bar for open world gaming.
The Last of Us was matched in terms of quality by God of War.
It's all a matter of taste - mostly subjective. But I feel if any game deserves it, it should be a game at the very least unmatched in its genre.
I don't think that in this epic decade of gaming that the Last of Us stands out head and shoulders above some of the other games that made their mark. And I don't think this game defined a specific genre.
It was a really, really good game. But so were many others. It didn't define or alter this era of gaming... outside of encouraging other developers to either match or exceed their quality. That's why I can't agree with this.
Red Dead Redemption set the bar for open world gaming.
The Last of Us was matched in terms of quality by God of War.
It's all a matter of taste - mostly subjective. But I feel if any game deserves it, it should be a game at the very least unmatched in its genre.
Making the case for a game of the decade is a distinctly high bar.
Insisting that TLoU is counter-cultural or deeply influential in the industry, in my opinion, reveals someone who hasn't really considered what any of those would look like. Gaming is much more than a well-told story or striking dioramas. I think the writer undermines what they're trying to say about a memorable, wonderfully-crafted game by over-reaching and exaggerating about what TLoU "means" among its peers. Insisting the game is "important" casts the industry as a very small, pathetically aspirational thing. I think games (and audiences) constantly begging for prestige are the furthest from it.
I can absolutely understand someone saying TLoU is their favorite game, though. It wouldn't be in my top-5, and maybe not even in my top-10, but TLoU was a very good experience.
Insisting that TLoU is counter-cultural or deeply influential in the industry, in my opinion, reveals someone who hasn't really considered what any of those would look like. Gaming is much more than a well-told story or striking dioramas. I think the writer undermines what they're trying to say about a memorable, wonderfully-crafted game by over-reaching and exaggerating about what TLoU "means" among its peers. Insisting the game is "important" casts the industry as a very small, pathetically aspirational thing. I think games (and audiences) constantly begging for prestige are the furthest from it.
I can absolutely understand someone saying TLoU is their favorite game, though. It wouldn't be in my top-5, and maybe not even in my top-10, but TLoU was a very good experience.
Naturally, but there is much more weight on the gameplay part of it.
You always include the the years with 0. Like 80's and 90's doesn't include 1990 or 2000 respectively.
Well, The Last of Us certainly cemented the transition from designing your tentpole games for teenage boys to designing them for dads.
I don't think The Last it Us is a bad game by any means, but I can't buy so much of the discourse around it of pushing the medium to the next level. I feel like a lot of people who valorize storytelling in games have it in their heads that triggering an emotional response automatically equals high artistic merit. First, games have been doing that for ages and have done so in far more creative ways than just copying cinematic techniques (I always think of the moment in Earthbound when the game asks you to pray with it). Second, evoking said emotional reaction by telling a story about a dad raising a (surrogate) child in a dangerous world is probably one of the the least counter-cultural, least innovative ideas I can imagine.
I feel like some critics imagine Hollywood films as the gold standard for what "games as art" should be, ignoring the fact that Hollywood films aren't even the gold standard of what "films as art" should be.
I don't think The Last it Us is a bad game by any means, but I can't buy so much of the discourse around it of pushing the medium to the next level. I feel like a lot of people who valorize storytelling in games have it in their heads that triggering an emotional response automatically equals high artistic merit. First, games have been doing that for ages and have done so in far more creative ways than just copying cinematic techniques (I always think of the moment in Earthbound when the game asks you to pray with it). Second, evoking said emotional reaction by telling a story about a dad raising a (surrogate) child in a dangerous world is probably one of the the least counter-cultural, least innovative ideas I can imagine.
I feel like some critics imagine Hollywood films as the gold standard for what "games as art" should be, ignoring the fact that Hollywood films aren't even the gold standard of what "films as art" should be.
It's a damn good adventure. The best of its kind since Half Life 2.
I know, different goals and aspirations, but the feeling of following a cast of characters in peril through varied environments that each change the focus of gameplay slightly until a culminative ending felt similar to me. I love all kinds of games but there's something extra special about the linear games that take you on a journey like this.
I know, different goals and aspirations, but the feeling of following a cast of characters in peril through varied environments that each change the focus of gameplay slightly until a culminative ending felt similar to me. I love all kinds of games but there's something extra special about the linear games that take you on a journey like this.
Yeah I didn't care for the game either but people really seem to love it.
I don't know how I ended up in this alternate reality where the majority sees TLOU for something other than a generic linear AAA game with above average presentation and below average gameplay. Hands down the most overrated game of all time. Even edging out Journey.
It's not my choice but it was a fantastic game so no complaints.
I'd submit distilling the last decade of gaming into a singular emblematic title is nigh impossible regardless. I'd personally be hard-pressed to distill this last decade into ten games.
I'd submit distilling the last decade of gaming into a singular emblematic title is nigh impossible regardless. I'd personally be hard-pressed to distill this last decade into ten games.
I think I'd put RDR1 or 2 above it, but it's hard to disagree taste being subjective and what not. Great game, well executed, good story, well told. It's not my favorite game, probably out of my top 5 or top 10 of the decade, but it's a game that does a lot right in a very tight way, so it deserves it as much as any.
The most interesting contrary argument in this thread, though, is the person arguing that a decade is from 2011 - 2020. It's just so bizarre. Kudos to that person.
The most interesting contrary argument in this thread, though, is the person arguing that a decade is from 2011 - 2020. It's just so bizarre. Kudos to that person.
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Good choice, one of the greatest games of all time. It's a game with a character that's never seen or heard and I felt incredibly sorry him and what he and the other survivors went through. The storytelling and gameplay worked so perfectly together.
I'll definitely be playing this before 2 is out.
I'll definitely be playing this before 2 is out.
To me game of the decade should be one that had major influence across the entire industry, and I'm not really sure that TLOU rises to that level. It is an amazing game, but I'd have a hard time justifying it as GOTD. I'd say Minecraft, PUBG, Breath of the Wild, GTA V would have been better choices.
Dude red dead 2 controlled like garbage. You can not be game of the decade and control like complete garbage. Thats just not how it works.
Exactly, it's a decent game that owes its lauded status to the narrative.
I played it once and found it to be enjoyable enough but like all ND games there's just not enough agency there for me to ever feel like playing them again.
to me it's like saying that making a movie with only one environment and a fixed camera (akin theatre) is not to the detriment of the movie media.
or that a comic book that mainly uses text is not to the detriment of the comic media.
every media has its own strong points and unique weapons, not using them to mimic another media is a waste of potential if i ever saw one
Would be hard for me to decide between The Last of Us, Bloodborne, SOMA, Inside, Rain World, and Crusader Kings 2, but The Last of Us is definitely the first game that comes to mind when I think of the masterpieces that defined the decade for me.
Solid choice, definitely paved the road for Sony's first party approach and proved that the "Uncharted style" could be expanded beyond that IP and into other genres.
I don't know if it fully encapsulates gaming as a whole for the decade, but I don't think there is one game that could.
I don't know if it fully encapsulates gaming as a whole for the decade, but I don't think there is one game that could.
Are you being serious? You're just summing up things that are detriments to a comical degree, not actual real-life ways to leverage the strengths of the medium another medium is built upon.
It's a net positive to be able to focus in on facial expressions during emotionally charged cutscenes. It's a net benefit to take away control from the player so that they don't t-bag NPCs or run around the environment while another character delivers something the player needs to focus on. The "...okay" cutscene in The Last of Us doesn't work if the player is given the freedom to run around the environment doing whatever. In fact, the very nature of it being a cutscene makes that scene as powerful as it is.
Actual examples with regard to the things you summed up would be the use of text in comic books, or the use of the language of theater in film. You don't just forgo those things just because another medium uses them.
And you can tell exactly which film specifically inspired The Last of Us. It's called 'The Road'. And it was a fantastic movie as well (if you're into the post-apocalyptic sci-fi genre).
Came out 4 years prior and pretty much set every theme that the Last Of Us would follow... Even the relationship between the main character and the child - the look of the main character, etc.
Point is Last of Us, as I stated, is/was a great game. But to echo what you said, it didn't define a genre, nor its style of storytelling... didn't break boundaries. It just executed a gaming experience to near perfection. But other games in the cinematic single-player genre did that as well.
it's not a net positive when you compare it to what the media could be and achieve if it freed itself from the shackles of trying to be what it isn't and started trying to be it's own thing, not unlike all the other medias that matured and found their full expression by using their own unique strenghts to the best instead of trying to do what the other media already did, but worse.
again, much like a comic book that instead of using the power of images + minimal text just starts dumping walltext at you because he wants to be a book, or a movie director that refuses to move the perspective of the audience with camera movement and placement and just decides to keep it steady in one place , noy unlike theatre.
and that's without counting that unlike image and text, that can live together and enrich each other, interactivity and non interactivity cannot, one cannot exist when the other is alive, they are in perennial war with the only result that neither can actually achieve its full potential.
because like you just said, you can't narrate a story using the movie way with the player free to move around and interact with the scene how he see fit, and at the same way you can't use the full potential of interactivity when said interactivity is stripped from you for a cutscene or a scripted sequence
I'm sorry, that's straight up bullshit. The use of text isn't a shackle on comic books, just like the language of film isn't a shackle on video games. Most cutscenes in TLOU, especially where it concerns emotional things, could not have been done better without it being a cutscene. Interactivity isn't the be-all and end-all. You don't need to be in control 100 percent of the time for a game to be considered living up to its potential.
Also, this:
"again, much like a comic book that instead of using the power of images + minimal text just starts dumping walltext at you because he wants to be a book, or a movie director that refuses to move the perspective of the audience with camera movement and placement and just decides to keep it steady in one place , noy unlike theatre."
isn't actually what you're arguing. You're arguing they do away with cutscenes, full-stop. You're arguing for comic books to not use text anymore, or film to throw away the book on theatrical language. The equivalent of a video game using a cutscene where necessary is not "a comic book dumping walltext at you". The equivalent to that would be video games just being nothing but cutscenes.
Your mode of thinking is actually incredibly stifling to the potential of video games, even though you probably think you're doing it a favor. In actual fact, you're one of the ones putting a limit on what a video game can and cannot be. Like I said before, a version where the TLOU "...okay" cutscene is done while the player is in control, is a lesser version of TLOU.
that's funny, i think the same of your way of thinking about the media.
but if you think that the best videogames can do is doing what movies do, but worse, then let's just agree to disagree
In what way has Breadth of the Wild or GTAV influenced the industry?
It's not me who thinks that. It's what people who create some of the best, if not the best video games to date think. You're not exactly coming up with ways to do the "...Okay" scene without a cutscene out of your own volition either. Sometimes, cutscenes are necessary, because they're the most straight-forward if not the best tool for the job. Just like there are just some things you just can't do without text in a comic book. Or, at least, not as straight-forward. And I think it's pretty self-evident why it'd be stifling to withhold an essential tool for the job just because... Well, just because.
and why do you need to be straightforward? why do you even need to narrate? those are the rules of the other medias, those without interactivity, those that have no choice BUT to show and narrate.
there is an entire new world of possibilities in front of you, yet you are content with mimicking what has already been done the best you could, travel over already beaten paths, while you could be doing your own thing.
Ummm, yeeeah, about that. It was Demon's Souls, not Dark Souls.
Given that the decade comprised at least half of the previous generation and all of the current one, sure.
TLOU, as a capstone to the previous generation, is basically a perfect compilation and look forward.
It merged a lot of the narrative design pieces other games were going for at that the end of last generation. Its rare that a standard bearer in a field, like ND was with Uncharted, takes a step further forward while most of the industry interested in that kind of design is still trying to catch their previous effort. For a generation like the last where narrative design/storytelling took such a big step forward being the game that capped and raised the bar further to close the gen. means quite a bit.
Then you have the gameplay, where ND successfully fused the emerging survivalist gameplay mechanics into the more familiar ground of third person cover shooters that were the hallmark of the PS360 libraries, and further layered in a very capable stealth mechanic (something developers still manage to fuck up today).
Best of all, the gameplay was paired with a range of difficulty and HUD costomizations that actually meaningfully impacted the gameplay. Not just "enemies deal more damage/you deal less damage" hooks. The "sonar" ability toggle completely reinvents the experience as the most obvious example.
So game of the generation for the last cycle was then, and is still today, a slam dunk for TLOU. That brings us to the current generation.
Most of the major AAA single player games of this gen. focused pretty heavily on chasing TLOU's design choices and style, succeeding with various degrees of success. I'd argue that its very telling when even in this thread the most noteworthy "successor" game is God of War, another Sony first party title. The previous generation Uncharted contenders, Tomb Raider most notably but also the AC games, etc. have all either failed to progress at the rate of Sony's first party teams or have moved away from those conventions in favor of more GAAS/open world RPG mechanics.
The only real competitor to me would be Breath of the Wild as its a daring reinvention of the franchises' present day form (at the time) that simultaneously calls back to the franchise's original roots. But BotW was a late dual platform release that had no real significance for the vast majority of the decade and has no been out long enough to where we can see that its impact on game design as a whole has been relatively minimal (at least within this decade).
The suggestion that any of the Souls games are worthy of consideration is, to put it blunt, an uninformed and invalid opinion. Demon's Souls was a 2009 game, as such entire concept of these games was birthed prior to this decade. The only ones that have deviated enough to merit consideration as something other than a direct successor to Demon's are Bloodborne and Sekiro. The fact that it took Dark Souls for PC and X360 players to see what From had created is simply not relevant. The explicit Souls games are not a creation of this decade, but one of the past that has matured this decade into a place of greater prominence. If someone wanted to argue that the follow up success of the Souls games makes Demon's Souls the retroactive game of the previous decade, missed at the time as we didn't know just how much it would take off, I'd probably agree. But unless you act like Japan didn't exist in 2009 the Souls "franchise" predates this decade and the franchise and associated mechanics are an integral part of its value as a "game of the decade" contender.
TLOU, as a capstone to the previous generation, is basically a perfect compilation and look forward.
It merged a lot of the narrative design pieces other games were going for at that the end of last generation. Its rare that a standard bearer in a field, like ND was with Uncharted, takes a step further forward while most of the industry interested in that kind of design is still trying to catch their previous effort. For a generation like the last where narrative design/storytelling took such a big step forward being the game that capped and raised the bar further to close the gen. means quite a bit.
Then you have the gameplay, where ND successfully fused the emerging survivalist gameplay mechanics into the more familiar ground of third person cover shooters that were the hallmark of the PS360 libraries, and further layered in a very capable stealth mechanic (something developers still manage to fuck up today).
Best of all, the gameplay was paired with a range of difficulty and HUD costomizations that actually meaningfully impacted the gameplay. Not just "enemies deal more damage/you deal less damage" hooks. The "sonar" ability toggle completely reinvents the experience as the most obvious example.
So game of the generation for the last cycle was then, and is still today, a slam dunk for TLOU. That brings us to the current generation.
Most of the major AAA single player games of this gen. focused pretty heavily on chasing TLOU's design choices and style, succeeding with various degrees of success. I'd argue that its very telling when even in this thread the most noteworthy "successor" game is God of War, another Sony first party title. The previous generation Uncharted contenders, Tomb Raider most notably but also the AC games, etc. have all either failed to progress at the rate of Sony's first party teams or have moved away from those conventions in favor of more GAAS/open world RPG mechanics.
The only real competitor to me would be Breath of the Wild as its a daring reinvention of the franchises' present day form (at the time) that simultaneously calls back to the franchise's original roots. But BotW was a late dual platform release that had no real significance for the vast majority of the decade and has no been out long enough to where we can see that its impact on game design as a whole has been relatively minimal (at least within this decade).
The suggestion that any of the Souls games are worthy of consideration is, to put it blunt, an uninformed and invalid opinion. Demon's Souls was a 2009 game, as such entire concept of these games was birthed prior to this decade. The only ones that have deviated enough to merit consideration as something other than a direct successor to Demon's are Bloodborne and Sekiro. The fact that it took Dark Souls for PC and X360 players to see what From had created is simply not relevant. The explicit Souls games are not a creation of this decade, but one of the past that has matured this decade into a place of greater prominence. If someone wanted to argue that the follow up success of the Souls games makes Demon's Souls the retroactive game of the previous decade, missed at the time as we didn't know just how much it would take off, I'd probably agree. But unless you act like Japan didn't exist in 2009 the Souls "franchise" predates this decade and the franchise and associated mechanics are an integral part of its value as a "game of the decade" contender.
I'm not meaning to dismiss the pacing and experience behind TLoU, but I do understand these criticisms. I think the active vs passive "question" of game design is a personal one, and some games are right to lean more heavily on basically "sitting the player down" when it's trying to get something across.
Generally speaking, the more a game keeps its full impact when viewed as something like a Youtube video, the more clear it is the interactivity wasn't linchpin to what people get out of it. If we're considering the best games over the past decade, a game that's memorable for mostly the same reasons a great movie would be won't stand out to all players. No one is saying "games can't use cutscenes."
Meh. It's one of the few AAA titles that I actually managed to finish this decade, but I remember pretty much nothing about it.
Your proposal is basically to throw away everything that works. Hardly constructive, and definitely not helpful.
Why do you need to be straightforward? Because we live in the real world, where you don't just reinvent the wheel out of some twisted sense of purity. You use a cutscene because it's the best tool for the job. Also, because technological limitations (cutscene render quality is higher), time limitation (why devise some convoluted way to hit the same notes with pure gameplay when a cutscene works better anyway), limitations of the kind of game you're making (you just can't read facial movements well in third person), ... There are plenty of very good reasons to use the best tool for the job, and I can't believe I'm wasting my time trying to convey this to you.