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Gamesradar: Mass Effect 3's Indoctrination fan theory is incorrect but the devs love it
- Thread starter GameAddict411
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It's been a while since I finished the series and read up on the theory, but I remember thinking it was even dumber than the actual ending tbh.
At least they understand it's brilliant.
Either it was fantastic writing and the IT was intended all along, or they just weren't very good writers. At least now we know for certain.
Either it was fantastic writing and the IT was intended all along, or they just weren't very good writers. At least now we know for certain.
Of course they do. It's better than what they wrote in ME3
He was so close to waking up us from the indoctrination. Alas, even he was no match
It super fuckin is. "There is no ending, the last x% of the game is ALL IN SHEPARD'S HEAD." Very 3Deep5me.
No AAA game would dare to be subtle with its ending.
It would've been shouted from the rooftops if that was the case.
It would've been shouted from the rooftops if that was the case.
BioWare games have such detailed lore that it makes it so easy to create theories that make sense. Dragon Age has a ton of those too.
I think IT is pretty great and I would've loved to see Shepard actually have to fight indoctrination during ME3. There was more than enough information in the trilogy to support the theory.
I think IT is pretty great and I would've loved to see Shepard actually have to fight indoctrination during ME3. There was more than enough information in the trilogy to support the theory.
The dumb thing is they drilled into people's heads that exposure to Reaper tech leads to Indoctrination in three games and the comics, and then proceed to have us control the one character who spent the most time around Indoctrinating Reaper tech that wasn't turned into a Husk.
I mean shit, Shepard was knocked unconscious right next to a beacon that Indoctrinated an entire space station! For hours!
I mean shit, Shepard was knocked unconscious right next to a beacon that Indoctrinated an entire space station! For hours!
Yup. It's as dumb as the theory about FFVIII which it's based on.
No one with any real sense did. It was fun in like a fanfic-y way, but it was obvious that was never the intention
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I agree. But the massive fandom of the series(which was well deserved) couldn't accept that ending. So it was amazing how the theory did sound amusing if you look at the evidence.
Imagine the first draft only writing that went into Mass Effect where you accidentally convince a swath of your playerbase that your main character's been brainwashed into acting against their own will.
"Squall is dead" was something that happened because of someone deliberately looking for it, but Mass Effect 3 landed on the exact descriptor of "oily shadows" that the Rachni Queen spoke about their indoctrination seemingly by accident, and then filled Shepard's dream sequences with them.
"Squall is dead" was something that happened because of someone deliberately looking for it, but Mass Effect 3 landed on the exact descriptor of "oily shadows" that the Rachni Queen spoke about their indoctrination seemingly by accident, and then filled Shepard's dream sequences with them.
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Saren rode around in a literal reaper for... days? Weeks? Months? And was still mostly cogent. Just twisted af. You could even reach him just by talking to him. Shepard was not the most exposed non-husk.
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its the most cliched fanfic trope, "everything is a dream", for example the ff8 squall coma fan theory.
its not that clever but the person that created made a good work to tie dialog and stuff
its not that clever but the person that created made a good work to tie dialog and stuff
Saren is literally a Husk. His final form is even more of a Husk.
It's not really a good fan theory... it's like saying that character was deal all along.
Fans wanted an alternate explanation for the nonsense in the ending, even if this one provides no emotional closure to the story.
Fans wanted an alternate explanation for the nonsense in the ending, even if this one provides no emotional closure to the story.
The "theory" more about everything after the Harbinger run being psychological manipulation in order to get Shepard to use the Crucible to achieve Reaper victory, not so much that everything was a dream.
And then the faux-DLC would then give you a way to beat the mind games and nuke the Reapers.
Mass Effect 1 kinda rolls with different "levels" of Indoctrination. Saren's under their thrall, but he's cognizant and can act independently and is nominally working against their goals by proving the worth of organic life. The idea here is that Saren took a while to turn, and this was done in such a way that he didn't even realize it and nothing about him changed. He still thinks he's acting completely under his own will, but then you see the Salarians he captured and exposed to rapid Indoctrination, and they've become uncontrollably violent. I don't remember if this comes up anywhere else save for Rana Thanoptis, the Asari scientist on Virmire, who's also been under Saren's employ for a long time but seems normal, and then ME3 reveals in a news bulletin she was Indoctrinated all along and killed a bunch of people.
Oh doy the Illusive Man in ME3. You know he's Indoctrinated but he's still acting like himself up until the end.
Really surprised to see all the "it was brilliant" sentiment here. Seriously? It was the most cliched "it was all a dream" fanfic idea ever.
One of the main complaints about the ending is that your choices throughout the series weren't taken into account for the ending. Indoctrination Theory takes away all agency from Shepard and the player and makes everything you did even more pointless.
EDIT: Spoilering my posts about this because people who haven't played the games may soon what with the remaster coming out.
You ever meet any Husks in game that aren't just charging mindless zombies? Nope. Saren was a walking talking thinking reasoning feeling Turian right up til the moment he puts a gun to his head and pulls the trigger. He wasn't a husk until he was already dead. The sheer amount of Reaper tech in his body, despite his not having completely lost touch with reality, only strengthens my point.
It has Darth Jar Jar vibes. Fans twisting themselves into knots to try to explain why a shitty part of the series is secretly good. That being said, I have fun reading these theories and seeing how people try to connect the dots.
Ah yes the theory about how they had control over your brain but still offered you three choices on a silver platter they didn't need to, directly after they teleported you to the top of a tower they didn't need to, and then one of them was correct (destroy) but they still let you pick that one anyway if you really want to.
As opposed to just, tricking your senses into making you walk off a cliff or whatever. Or making you stay fucking asleep until the reaper forces could come in and kill you.
As opposed to just, tricking your senses into making you walk off a cliff or whatever. Or making you stay fucking asleep until the reaper forces could come in and kill you.
Saren is a Husk, semantics be damned. He's a Husk just like Birkin is a zombie.
Indoctrination isn't just turning living beings into literal mindless husks. There are many cases of the indoctrination being very subtle, because its usefulness is proportionally opposite to the level of control. The more control a Reaper has over its host, the biggest the cognitive damage to the host, thus rendering them less useful.
Which is why Saren isn't a full on husk, Sovereign needed him to still be useful, so Sovereign's indoctrination was more subtle: his beliefs, how he trusted Sovereign, how he thought he had it all under control, it's all part of the indoctrination, indirectly guiding his actions. Which is why he could still be reasoned with, despite leaning heavily towards the goals and beliefs programmed into his mind.
Saren only becomes a husk when Sovereign decides to assume direct control of his body, by which point a sentient Saren was no longer needed.
I think the idea is more that they wanted to believe it was all according to Bioware's grand plan.
"See? Indoctrination Theory proves it's a good ending! Shepard was being controlled and had no other options!"
The original point was that Shepard MUST have lost their mind because they were so exposed. If your argument is actually that Saren is a husk then his exposure is only the greater for it. Fine, he's a husk. And still not fully indoctrinated. "Shepard was around the tech the most of anybody" isn't true.
"Full indocrination" doesn't mean gibbering madness, it means the characters are acting against their own will and don't even know it.
Indoctrination Theory isn't real but Saren was straight up slowly manipulated into servitude while believing he was acting according to plan.
The point was not that Shepard lost their mind, but that Shepard was vulnerable to Indoctrination.
The second point was that Shepard was around the tech longer than anyone who wasn't a Husk; and I'm still adamant about Saren being a Husk even though he's not 100% zombified. He's already enthralled by Indoctrination and is only autonomous because he's useful autonomous.
My point stands!
Go online, learn about this trick, wait until the secret ending is downloadable, that would take me out and kill the story momentum lol.