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MRORANGE

Nice thread btw :)
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,567
UK
Just a heads up that all posts in this threads are personal opinions and should not be taken as "You should stop playing that game!"

Resident Evil 5

I remember seeing this game before release at Expo's and it got a lot of backlash before release to the point Capcom had to get voice actors and staff to explain the game wasn't racist. While I do understand that a native population would be African and the main enemy type it seems like they went with very blatant stereotypical t tropes. On top having the main character as white protagonist just seems a bit irksome to me... If Capcom released this game today it would probably be shot down straight away:

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Grand Theft Auto 2

While there is not racially motivated missions in the game as I can recall, you do play as a gang who uses the confederate flag as their logo,. it's also represented on all of their clavicles as well. While it's meant to be a parody of Elvis loving Rednecks it's still a weird thing to see. I would probably still play the game but avoid playing as that faction.

8lA5dRz.jpg


I think here are some more blatant ones like that "custers last stand game" but that one was pretty obvious.

What's yours?
 

Deleted member 8593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
27,176
I don't know about inappropriate but my stance on gun violence in games and the depiction of wars has changed over the last few years. I wrote about it more extensively here but in short, I am not sure I can play games like Call of Duty or Battlefield that draw from real-life events and sometimes push jingoistic narratives. Not in a "virtual violence leads to real violence" way but it's just too close to the actual subject matter.
 

Comrade Grogu

Banned
Jun 20, 2020
4,090
I don't know about inappropriate but my stance on gun violence in games and the depiction of wars has changed over the last few years. I wrote about it more extensively here but in short, I am not sure I can play games like Call of Duty or Battlefield that draw from real-life events and sometimes push jingoistic narratives. Not in a "virtual violence leads to real violence" way but it's just too close to the actual subject matter.
I would never play Call of Duty because it's just propaganda, period.
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,508
Custer's Revenge might not be that appropriate. For the rest, I usually don't mind what I play.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
49,969
I feel like the original Alone in the Dark would have to be more tactful. I'm not sure if most people remember the story details - I had completely forgotten until I saw videos digging up later - but it was set in what was once a slaveowner's mansion. There's one document which mentions the slaves trying to save their master while the manor is being raided by the Union, which is implied to be some kind of supernatural happening, but the loyal slaves trying to save the master was also the type of thing you'd see in lost cause whitewashing stuff like Gone with the Wind.
 

SanTheSly

The San Symphony Project
Member
Sep 2, 2019
6,485
United Kingdom
GTA2 is kinda weird in that it's the definite odd one out in the series. A weird futuristic civilisation set either in the late 90s or the 2010s depending on what you read, with over the top parodies and a weird almost cyberpunk flavour.

You could easily change the confederate flying gang to one that more heavily emphasises the Elvis pastiche aspect; like the Kings in Fallout New Vegas.

Resi 5... would be far, far harder to fix. It's one of my favourite action games ever, and one of the best co-op experiences around for me but so much of that game's content is not okay, and never was.

I can't think of any personal examples right now that fit this topic though, maybe I'll post one later if I think of one.
 

Sanka

Banned
Feb 17, 2019
5,778
Why do I think that if Resident Evil 5 released today the criticism towards it would recieve way more pushback than back then.

I was too young to really follow it. How was the discourse when RE5 released?
 

SeanShards

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,303
I had to drop The Division 2 after getting back into it for a bit recently. The backstory being a deadly pandemic was a little too real for me.
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,519
I was too young to really follow it. How was the discourse when RE5 released?
It was basically the prototype for the response to Feminist Frequency. A bunch of gamers peddling half truths to youtube audiences to try and paint critics of the game as crazy, overly sensitive, and claiming they were calling fans of the game racist.
 

Ojli

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,652
Sweden
Played Life is Strange 2 last week, and while it's not inappropriate in regards to the protagonist, there were some cop-stuff that felt more impactful (and kinda "filthy") than if I had played it a year ago
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,454
Why do I think that if Resident Evil 5 released today the criticism towards it would recieve way more pushback than back then.

I was too young to really follow it. How was the discourse when RE5 released?
get a load of the fucking discourse: https://www.destructoid.com/stories...-all-we-see-is-another-capcom-hit-80891.phtml

I'm just going to quote the whole thing because fuck giving this a click:

During a recent interview with MTV Multiplayer (concerning the depiction of blacks in games), N'Gai Croal of Newsweek gave an enlightening talk about the controversy behind the Resident Evil 5 trailer, and how Capcom could have done things to avoid the unnecessary fuss.


According to Croal, it was just a few moments in when he realized that there were some things about the trailer that had the potential to inflame members of the black community, however unintentional it might have been. While the majority of us were fawning over the detailed images and dynamic lighting -- not to mention getting all antsy about the debut of a new Resident Evil game on next-generation hardware since RE4 righted the series again -- others were seeing something starkly different. To them, the trailer contained just over three minutes of classic racist imagery that many Caucasians (including myself) never even noticed:

"There was stuff like even before the point in the trailer where the crowd turned into zombies. There sort of being, in sort of post-modern parlance, they're sort of "othered." They're hidden in shadows, you can barely see their eyes, and the perspective of the trailer is not even someone who's coming to help the people. It's like they're all dangerous; they all need to be killed. It's not even like one cute African — or Haitian or Caribbean — child could be saved. They're all dangerous men, women and children. They all have to be killed."


Croal then goes on to touch upon Resident Evil 4, and that even though the zombies (yes, I know they were supposedly not zombies in that game) were obviously non-white, a fair comparison cannot be made, considering the historical American race relations of the past:



"And given the history, given the not so distant post-colonial history, you would say to yourself, why would you uncritically put up those images? It's not as simple as saying, "Oh, they shot Spanish zombies in 'Resident Evil 4,' and now 'black zombies and that's why people are getting upset." The imagery is not the same. It doesn't carry the same history, it doesn't carry the same weight. I don't know how to explain it more clearly than that."


Still not sold yet on the idea that the trailer wasn't exactly thought out and planned as well as it could have been? Croal expands upon the effect imagery has on the larger audience when some historical context is brought into play:



"It's like when you engage that kind of imagery you have to be careful with it. It would be like saying you were going to do some sort of zombie movie that appeared to be set in Europe in the 1940's with skinny, emaciated, Hasidic-looking people. If you put up that imagery people would be saying, "Are you crazy?" Well, that's what this stuff looks like. This imagery has a history. It has a history and you can't pretend otherwise. That imagery still has a history that has to be engaged, that has to be understood. If you're going to tread, if you're going to engage imagery that has that potential, the onus is on the creator to be aware of that because there will be repercussions in the marketplace."


He finishes up by saying that he doesn't know for sure how Capcom views the whole situation, and the potential ramifications of the game's eventual release. Will it hurt the franchise? In the past, some retailers have tended to shy away from titles that might cause them to be viewed in the wrong way. You know, the image thing Croal's been referring to throughout the entire interview.


Contrary to the ebony-helmeted icon that I've chosen to represent myself here at Destructoid, I'm not of African-American descent. As a result, I may not be as finely tuned into the black community, as say, an African-American would be. However, I find it absurd to think that a Japanese publisher would set out to purposely (or even accidentally) conjure up negative racial overtones towards blacks while publicizing their next game.


Equally puzzling is Croal's mention of WWII-era Jews as a possible analogy. Although I can appreciate the point he is trying to make, there really aren't any parallels that one can draw from such a comparison. What does this really have to do with historical imagery of blacks in America?


Capcom has but two goals with Resident Evil 5: to weave a story that is true to the RE lore, and to make a profit at the end of the day. By nature of most shooters, it's going to be one man taking on many. In this case, Chris Redfield (who is white) just so happens to be taking on zombie-fied villagers that are black. I have yet to get my hands on the finished game, but judging by the trailer alone, there is nothing about it that overtly depicts the African-American community in a negative manner.


Go back and view the trailer one more time, and then decide for yourself if you see anything worth commenting about (other than the game itself) on a social level. Are there any villagers that seem to be pigeonholed into a stereotypical view that screams out to you in a way that says, "Aha! That is obviously aimed at denigrating blacks!"?

No, you won't find that. What you will find is a stunning trailer for a highly anticipated game, which just happens to take place in an area where non-white villagers are under the influence of something evil -- and it might lead back to a shady corporation that goes by the name of Umbrella. To think otherwise would just be reaching out and grasping at straws in order to back up an argument that shouldn't even exist in the first place. What do you think?
 

CaviarMeths

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,655
Western Canada
I think lot of people might feel hurt when seing all the nazi symbols around, even if they are the enemy.

Edit: not sure, you making me doubt. It is the first gane that came to my mind
Wolfenstein is still an active IP with a new entry that just came out last year.

While hyper-violent games personally make me uncomfortable enough to not play them, even when the enemies are objectively awful people like Nazis, I don't think the general public believes that Wolfenstein games are inappropriate.

There was some delicious alt-right tears when Wolfenstein 2 came out a few years ago tho lol.
 

Madao

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,678
Panama
I think lot of people might feel hurt when seing all the nazi symbols around, even if they are the enemy.

Edit: not sure, you making me doubt. It is the first gane that came to my mind

i think it's fine as long as they're depicted as bad and something you pretty much destroy or kill in the case of enemies.

it's better than having certain countries be the bad guys because of stereotypes (hello countries that are depicted as drug dealing heavens)
 

JustJavi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,116
New Zealand
Wolfenstein is still an active IP with a new entry that just came out last year.

While hyper-violent games personally make me uncomfortable enough to not play them, even when the enemies are objectively awful people like Nazis, I don't think the general public believes that Wolfenstein games are inappropriate.

There was some delicious alt-right tears when Wolfenstein 2 came out a few years ago tho lol.

To be honest, I've only played the one I posted and must have been 25 years so not sure what direction the following games went. I hope I didn't offend anyone
 

Numberfox

Member
Aug 5, 2018
5,969
At this point in my life, I can't personally take to games where there's just a bunch of shitty people doing terrible things in a messed up world, especially when it's trying to be gory with realistic graphics. I see enough of that in real life these days.
 

Sanka

Banned
Feb 17, 2019
5,778
Oct 27, 2017
6,348
The confederate flags are not so much the problem with GTA2 as that one mission were you abduct a bus full of people to make sausages out of them. I'm surprised that shit flew even back then.

I think they could still make confederate flag waving rednecks today, but with the only difference that you don't take missions from them. Hell, the only thing missing was Trevor having one on his car.
 

MC_Leon6494

Member
Sep 7, 2018
501
I hopped into Infamous 2 recently using PS Now and that game's depiction of police as 100% good dudes that never to anything wrong and exist as the pinnacle of goodness in that games world is uhh.... not good. Like you get moral choices and side missions that are basically "work with / help police" with zero nuance or thought. Same thing with the PS4 Spider-Man. Basically any game that depicts police as wholly good. Battlefield Hardline I saw someone else toss up and yeesh that game
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,519
I hopped into Infamous 2 recently using PS Now and that game's depiction of police as 100% good dudes that never to anything wrong and exist as the pinnacle of goodness in that games world is uhh.... not good. Like you get moral choices and side missions that are basically "work with / help police" with zero nuance or thought. Same thing with the PS4 Spider-Man. Basically any game that depicts police as wholly good. Battlefield Hardline I saw someone else toss up and yeesh that game
Infamous 2 was a mess even back when it released. The "good" ending involved comitting genocide so that the majority could have a CHANCE at living.
 

CaviarMeths

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,655
Western Canada
To be honest, I've only played the one I posted and must have been 25 years so not sure what direction the following games went. I hope I didn't offend anyone
Nah I don't think you offended anyone. Your post just seemed to suggest that Wolfenstein was a dormant property that wouldn't fly in the current social climate. But they still do, and they're still cartoonishly violent with cartoonishly evil Nazis.

Wolfenstein 2 came out in Oct 2017, not even two months after the deadly Neo-Nazi rally in Charlottesville, VA. Needless to say, the topic of Nazis in America was dominating the news cycle. Obviously the game was in development for a lot longer than two months, but releasing a loud and proud condemnation of Nazism and fascism in America was pretty welcomed at the time. For their part, Bethesda was pretty happy to evoke current events in their marketing. The alt-right and other Neo-Nazi adjacent degenerates were Very Mad Online of course, but normal people either didn't care or reacted positively.
 

jman1954goat

Linked the Fire
Member
May 9, 2020
12,416
Played Life is Strange 2 last week, and while it's not inappropriate in regards to the protagonist, there were some cop-stuff that felt more impactful (and kinda "filthy") than if I had played it a year ago
but life is strange 2 is very anti cop would be seen even better now
 

JustJavi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,116
New Zealand
Nah I don't think you offended anyone. Your post just seemed to suggest that Wolfenstein was a dormant property that wouldn't fly in the current social climate. But they still do, and they're still cartoonishly violent with cartoonishly evil Nazis.

Wolfenstein 2 came out in Oct 2017, not even two months after the deadly Neo-Nazi rally in Charlottesville, VA. Needless to say, the topic of Nazis in America was dominating the news cycle. Obviously the game was in development for a lot longer than two months, but releasing a loud and proud condemnation of Nazism and fascism in America was pretty welcomed at the time. For their part, Bethesda was pretty happy to evoke current events in their marketing. The alt-right and other Neo-Nazi adjacent degenerates were Very Mad Online of course, but normal people either didn't care or reacted positively.

Thanks so much for taking the time to explain it. I hope I didn't come across as alt-right as I couldn't be further from that.

I think all nazi symbolism is forbidden in Germany and pretty sure the game never released there because of that, that's why it was the first game that came to mind.