Games that do harder difficulties RIGHT

[DanarchyReigns]

Yeah this is inspired by that other thread. Most games can't really do a harder difficulty justice. It's either turning enemies into bullet sponges while you turn into tissue paper, or AI just becomes way too unfair.

But what about the games that incentivize you to play on a hard difficulty, that actually feel good to "git gud"

To me, character action games can do that.
Devil May Cry being a popular example with Hard changing enemy layout and Dante Must Die giving enemies Devil Trigger.
Bayonetta and The Wonderful 101 also provide similar methods of difficulty. Hard changing enemy layout, and Nonstop Infinite Climax/101% Hard removing a time slowing feature (Witch Time for Bayo, Liner slowdown for 101)

What games do you feel do "hard mode" justice?

 

[Desma]

Might get this one out of the way

Kingdom Hearts II FM

Critical makes it harder, but it also makes you stronger

 

[calibos]

Halo has always felt better on Heroic and Legendary simply because it makes enemies smarter and more aggressive instead of just turning them into bullet sponges.

 

[Kain-Nosgoth]

megaman 10 and 11 adding new attack and patterns to the bosses

 

[Soiks]

Goldeneye and Perfect Dark are the first that spring to mind and I'm surprised games haven't copied them. For those unaware, not only do enemies deal more damage etc, but you'll get additional objectives to complete in the level. It really adds to the challenge in an interesting way.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Might get this one out of the way

Kingdom Hearts II FM

Critical makes it harder, but it also makes you stronger

Click to shrink...

Critical mode is sooooo goooood

 

[RockmanBN]

megaman 10 and 11 adding new attack and patterns to the bosses

Click to shrink...

Enemy placement Is more difficult too

 

[vixolus]

Doom Eternal. The ai gets smarter and more aggressive rather than just damage numbers

 

[Ruisu]

I wouldn't consider removing gameplay features in harder difficulties "doing it right".

But Devil May Cry does tend to do well with remixing enemy waves in modes like Son of Sparda, the new choices aren't random and still take into consideration a clear progress curve of challenge. Similar to it, Metal Gear Rising Revengeance harder modes were near perfect.

Might get this one out of the way

Kingdom Hearts II FM

Critical makes it harder, but it also makes you stronger

Click to shrink...

Oh yeah, critical mode in KHII was so incredibly well balanced! "Makes you stronger" is almost an understatement, you got a whole lot of new ability slots from the start, your damage was boosted for reaction commands in a way that let you use them in combat a lot more often than in normal or proud mode. The flow of combat was totally different, I would say it's the definitive way to play the game.

Unfortunately they never did a Critical mode that worked like that again. (though I haven't played KHIII dlc, apparently it's different there.)

 

[dancingphlower]

Yeah stylish action games like DMC and Ninja Gaiden do it right. New enemy placements and different enemy behaviors make for a more interesting experience on the next go around.

 

[Deleted member 2317]

Soulsbornikero and god willing Elden Ring.

Horizon Zero Dawn actually allows enemies to attack you simultaneously and it is glorious!

 

[TubaZef]

Quake and I guess DOOM and DOOM 2 where items and enemy placement changes. Quake does this specially well making some drastic changes like adding 2 shamblers (the strongest enemy in the game) right at the 3rd Map on Hard mode, while on Normal it only shows up in the 5th one, and it's just one!

Talking about the HARD mode here, not Nightmare which makes enemies harder themselves.

 

[TradedHats]

Might get this one out of the way

Kingdom Hearts II FM

Click to shrink...

KH3 as well. Just so good. Wish it was there from day 1 so more people got to experience it.

 

[Nola]

Doom Eternal. The ai gets smarter and more aggressive rather than just damage numbers

Click to shrink...

This is probably the best recent example I can think of.

Outside of Soulsborne games that is...

 

[Tyrant Rave]

Bayonetta 1 is the best example. Playing it for the first time on NSIC was pretty eye opening and shows how truly brilliant the game is. Witch Time's purpose in it is to function like training wheels/safety guards, and everything is completely playable and functional without it. It really shows the strength of Dodge Offset and everything clicks into place. It's genius.

Viewtiful Joe is a good option as well.

 

[Guppeth]

Sekiro has two hard modes, that you can stack. The Demon Bell makes all the enemies stronger, the "bullet sponge tissue paper" effect. The more interesting one, Kuro's Charm, is only available in New Game+. Kuro's Charm causes Wolf to take chip damage when blocking, which means you need to parry everything.

Hades has a great system for increasing difficulty. After beating the final boss you unlock the Pact of Punishment, allowing the player to choose from a menu of different effects. Some just increase enemy damage or health, but there's one that dramatically changes all the boss encounters in the game.

 

[Mugman]

FF7R. I already really enjoyed the combat on my first playthrough, but playing it on hard mode elevated that game for me way higher than it otherwise would've been. Not being able to restore MP inside of chapters also sounded super annoying going into it, but it really reminded me of oldschool RPGs and having to really think about how you want to spend MP and item management. I mean, you couldn't use items at all in 7R hard mode, so not exactly the same, but still

Streets of Rage 4 harder difficulties are awesome. It was one of those games where I said "no way" when I first saw the trophy/achievement for getting all S ranks on at least Hard mode, but then before I knew it I had S ranks in every difficulty, and started doing it for Mania+ once the dlc dropped. Truly an amazing game

Edit: Oh yeah, Hades is a fantastic one, dunno why I hadn't thought of it. Pact of Punishment is just absolutely delightful. Kinda makes me wanna go back and revisit the game, think I capped out around 20 last time I played

 

[DixieDean82]

Halo has always felt better on Heroic and Legendary simply because it makes enemies smarter and more aggressive instead of just turning them into bullet sponges.

Click to shrink...

I was going to say I like how Halo does Legendary.

 

[DaciaJC]

Killing Floor 2. On harder difficulties (Suicidal and Hell on Earth), enemies get more health but also different attack patterns.

 

[Weiss]

Might get this one out of the way

Kingdom Hearts II FM

Critical makes it harder, but it also makes you stronger

Click to shrink...

Hell yeah.

The only thing Kingdom Hearts 2 had going for it was its battle system but boy did you have nothing to chew on in the vanilla release.

Critical rebalances the entire game into this ultra tight and reactionary combat system where all your options are good and the AP system is changed from swappable buffs into character progression for Sora where he just keeps unlocking all these sick new moves.

It is legitimately the only reason to play KH2.

 

[SimonM7]

Halo CE, 100%. It really kinda showed what difficulty settings could be.

 

[Faceless_Caesar]

Classic Doom changes almost all of the enemy placements and enemy types from difficulty to difficulty. It's a remarkably adaptable game.

 

[Jonathan Lanza]

Every Devil May Cry
Viewtiful Joe
Bayonetta
Wonderful 101
Resident Evil 4
Dark Souls II (NG+)

What all of these games have in common is that on the harder difficulties, enemy and item layouts will change and crutch mechanics will be gradually removed, enemies use new moves or use moves that they rarely used more often and you'll be treated to more challenging formations. In some cases outright new enemies will show up. These difficulties thrive because the easier difficulties act as learning experiences with the harder ones being a test of all that you've learned in a high stakes environment which is why I also think taking high damage is appropriate as well.

 

[Patitoloco]

Alien Isolation.

It's the way to play that game IMO. The alien AI must be unchained (not talking about the nightmare difficulty though, that's way too much for me lol)

 

[UraMallas]

Halo on lower difficulty feels like every other generic FPS. Halo on Heroic and higher feels like its own amazing gameplay loop. The enemy AI ramping up as the difficulty goes up is part of what makes Halo Halo.

Except for those piece of shit jackal snipers in 2. Fuck those guys.

 

[Bebpo]

Bayonetta 1 is the best example. Playing it for the first time on NSIC was pretty eye opening and shows how truly brilliant the game is. Witch Time's purpose in it is to function like training wheels/safety guards, and everything is completely playable and functional without it. It really shows the strength of Dodge Offset and everything clicks into place. It's genius.

Viewtiful Joe is a good option as well.

Click to shrink...

Yep, those two are great. Action games used to have really good differentials between difficulties to make the experiences feel new and refreshing instead of just stat changes. Made games more fun and last longer as you went through one difficulty to another.

I'd also add in most Mikami games. I remember P.N.03 being good like that.

 

[JLP101]

I am playing Nioh Complete Edition and each new difficulty adds new challenges.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

Soulsbornikero and god willing Elden Ring.

Horizon Zero Dawn actually allows enemies to attack you simultaneously and it is glorious!

Click to shrink...

Yeah, HZD is so much better on higher difficulties. Really forces you to use its systems.

 

[Ra]

Slay the Spire with the Ascension levels. Each one through 20 adds a new layer of danger that forces you to hone your skill bit by bit, if you want to succeed in an Ascension level 20 clear.

Roguelikes post StS are going to adopt this legacy.

 

[Perkin_Warbeck]

I haven't played it in hard mode, but the mode in FFVII Remake sounds interesting. I know Tim Rogers said it's the true way to play.

 

[Eblo]

My two main examples were going to be Devil May Cry changing enemies and KH2FM's Critical Mode.

 

[Dervius]

The Metro series.

Ranger hardcore is just the superior way to play the game. It's not just more damage, it changes the availability of supplies, your weapons are stronger but so are the enemiesit also makes human enemies more aware and essentially entirely removes the HUD.

It's not a linear difficulty scale as such, but a dramatically different mode.

I would also say games like Vermintide, WWZ and more recently Aliens: Fireteam Elite can be interesting in how the higher difficulties increase things like friendly fire and the frequency of special enemies, necessitating more cooperative play at the higher end.

 

[DenverCo]

Halo on lower difficulty feels like every other generic FPS. Halo on Heroic and higher feels like its own amazing gameplay loop. The enemy AI ramping up as the difficulty goes up is part of what makes Halo Halo.

Except for those piece of shit jackal snipers in 2. Fuck those guys.

Click to shrink...

I was going to say Halo as well.

The new Doom does a similar job too.

 

[Dice]

Sakurai games that use the slider

 

[Guru_Godzilla]

I'd say this is mostly on topic, but typically NG+ in games includes a harder difficulty. Of all the Soulsborne games only Dark Souls 2 does this well in my opinion. Adding more enemies and mixing them up was a great idea. Several bosses change as well too. For example, one boss appears much earlier in an area temporarily than it did on NG. Any damage it takes carries over to the first true encounter with it too IIRC.

 

[angelgrievous]

Both The last of Us and its sequel are best played on the hardest difficulty. I think its done very well.

 

[Man God]

Goldeneye and Perfect Dark. Some levels play completely differently because of the added objectives.

 

[OGlol]

I really enjoyed Lethal mode in Ghost of Tsushima, made the game much better overall for me

 

[Z-Beat]

Critical Mode in KH2 FM and KH3

 

[Clay]

Halo has always felt better on Heroic and Legendary simply because it makes enemies smarter and more aggressive instead of just turning them into bullet sponges.

Click to shrink...

Is this actually true? I've heard conflicting things over the years. Do the harder difficulties actually make the AI more sophisticated, or does it just seem that way because enemies stay alive longer and have more time to display all of the behaviors they're programmed with on every difficulty.

 

[Zukuu]

A recent example would be Hades' Extreme Measure modifier, which gives all boss new forms / moves / abilities , even tho it's not directly called a "hard mode".

 

[Baobab]

Hades and Slay the Spire are two game that rely on the gamer to make the game more hard on each time by tweaking different parameters( wepons stats, enimies composition, certain eveents hapenning etc...) to see the "true" ending.
Dark Souls II had certain enemies appear only on harder difficulties and the rewards could be particular rare items.

 

[CloudWolf]

Nioh 1 and 2:

First off, NG+ cycles don't actually require you to play through the full game again, which makes it attractive to continue since you don't need to spend 10+ hours on every NG+ cycle.

Secondly, while the enemies become harder, each NG+ cycle also unlocks different items, gear and stat bonuses for the player, so you continue growing along with the game instead of just having more difficult enemies to fight.

Hades

Pact of Punishment is brilliant, I love it.

Humankind

Often, 4X and strategy games have the AI straight up cheat on higher difficulties, making higher difficulties more about a fight to keep up than really a fair challenge. Civ for example straight up gives the AI all starting techs on Deity.

While Humankind still partly has this issue on the highest difficulty (AI armies get a +1 combat strength), the main difference betweem difficulties actually seems to be AI behaviour (they are more aggressive, more cautious with trades, make more "thought out" district choices, etc.) which is a much better challenge than Civ's "let's give the AI a bunch of cheats".

Also, besides the difficulty level, Humankind also has a kinda genius system with the AI enemies. Each AI enemy has certain "biases" that give them bonuses that vary from tiny changes (say, +1 movement) to game-changing modifiers like getting more industy or combat strength on certain tiles or with certain units. Choosing harder AI's to play against is a great, subtle way that you can make the game more difficult without changing the overall difficulty if that's too much for you to handle.

 

[Rayman not Ray]

Slay the Spire with the Ascension levels. Each one through 20 adds a new layer of danger that forces you to hone your skill bit by bit, if you want to succeed in an Ascension level 20 clear.

Roguelikes post StS are going to adopt this legacy.

Click to shrink...

It's what keeps me coming back to the game. I'm slowly climbing the ascension ladder. I've got all four characters to 10. Each ascension level forces me to get better. It's amazing.

 

[jaymzi]

MGS2's European Extreme.

No radar, new enemy layout, boss fights better, new bomb placements.

 

[Don Fluffles]

Supergiant's difficulty options are top-notch. Add more hazards and buff up enemies, get bigger rewards.

 

[shoptroll]

The World Ends With You has a cool risk/reward system based around adjustable difficulty and handicapping your current level. Basically, you can voluntarily adjust your current character level downward for an item drop boost. This ties in with the difficulty settings where higher difficulties cause the enemies to drop better rewards. Collecting all the pins in the game requires you to get really good with surviving at low level and playing on the highest difficulty.

Supergiant's difficulty options are top-notch. Add more hazards and buff up enemies, get bigger rewards.

Click to shrink...

Seconded. I love that this has become one of their signature design elements.

 

[GonzoCR]

Someone mentioned Slay the Spire and I agree. The Ascension system is amazing. It slowly ramps up the difficulty but never really overwhelms you (except maybe when the Elites get stronger) but then, after reaching something like A20, you go back to base difficulty which seemed so hard when you first started and you can beat it without thinking too much about what you're doing. Maybe my only criticism is that Ascender's Bane makes Clash straight up unpickable after A10 and Silent just dies to Lagavulin if you don't get decent damage cards in Act 1.

I also feel like Last of Us really benefits from being played on Survivor or Grounded, which really plays up the unforgiving nature of the world you're exploring. It's actually an amazing contrast to the Uncharted series, where the gameplay completely collapses on Hard and up.

 

[nitewulf]

Ori - never felt unfair.

 

[EllipsisBreak]

The Goldeneye/Perfect Dark system is the first thing that comes to mind. The mission objectives get more complicated and you usually have to rethink your approach.