Games in a franchise that kiss the ass of the first entry a little too much

Asbsand · Sep 10, 2020

Unironically there is a writer on Bioshock Infinite Burial At Sea who also wrote on Mass Effect 3, and my pick is Mass Effect 3.

"Remember Saren, Noveria, Virmire, Ilos?" - Garrus

While otherwise a good writer, there is one writer who I have noticed tends to resort to nostalgia-pandering when they aren't sure how else to handle something, and the problem is that it become patronizing. Mass Effect 3 of all games should be awarded for any callback to a game that is NOT itself, in the canon, that actually acknowledges that they happened, because as many people know Mass Effect 3 was intentionally written as if it were a "first game in the series" for newcomers. It changes when you play on a continued save game from Mass Effect 2, but not enough; it's still full of needless expository dialogue and character relationships hitting the reset-button, and an absolute fear from the writers of directly referencing a specific moment in a previous game (IGN actually complained Mass Effect 2 was hard to follow because it threw ME1 lingo at you out of the gate. Congratulations: BioWare listened.)

But what is the problem with lines like Garrus, referring the exact planets you went to and reminding you who was the antagonist of the first game? The line is certainly good from the perspective of hitting you with nostalgia, but why would you exactly do just a list of names to remind us that Mass Effect 1 happened? We were there, and in my run, Garrus was NOT there on half of those planets. That's not the main issue though: The main issue is that it's empty text. He isn't saying "I'm starting to wonder if Saren just knew the stakes after all." or "Setting up a nuke on Virmire was a big cost... but now it's everyone." he's saying "HEY PLAYER1, REMEMBER THAT GAME YOU REALLY LOVED?" Yeah, thanks for, FOR ONCE, reminding me that this is actually a sequel and not a soft-reset in disguise! I was actually worrying that Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 didn't matter at all, but it's also abundantly clear that there were writers on Mass Effect 3 who didn't bother to go back and look at ME1, or didn't have time to do it, and just went to the Wiki like "Oh right, what was the name of those plot-important places? Let's write a list." and it hurts the storytelling when the writers aren't committed to telling a story in an actual serialized way.

Same writer appeared on Telltale's Game of Thrones and what happens? Jon Snow shows up in Episode 3 like "I just luv bein here at the wall." and no. FANS love that Jon Snow is here, HE doesn't. Stop pandering to fans, and write. I have such an inner fanboy but even he has a disdain for when writers don't write with care for the fiction they are meant to preserve.

the magical kitsune · Sep 10, 2020

FormatCompatible said:
Agree. Like it was pretty cool to see it when it appeared as a secret stage in SA2, but then they kept bringing it up again and again. By the time Forces had it again just after Mania had it I was completely done with Green Hill. Move past this stage already Sega.

Sega: Duly noted. Here's Emerald Hill.

Asbsand · Sep 10, 2020

QisTopTier said:
The devs are to blame too

The devs are to blame because they don't put in the extra effort that made said first game so good anymore. They don't actually want to commit to telling a NEW story, so instead they tell a story by way of referencing the things you remember that were so good, leaving you with an inferior and much less original story for a sequel.

Another good example i have is the Ace Attorney Investigation series. Both of them. You gotta be in hardcore love with the series to know what I'm getting at, but the games are built around reintroducing characters in each case that appeared in the first three games, but as glorified cameos. They actually have case-relevant information but their reasons for being there are not just purposefully contrived and cheeky like in the trilogy itself, but it feels like they just threw them in there to patch up holes in the plot, and it hurts the game by giving up upwards of 18 characters for a single case that actually only focuses on 5 of them. So you have 18 characters swelling up to a Naruto-sized ball of actors standing around with their hands down their sides doing absolutely nothing. The only alternative is where the unnecessary characters go off as soon as you've cross-examined them.

Now, I know the original games also had a few stinkers where characters only appeared to tell some discardable info in one trial segment and then didn't ultimately matter that much, but that's just mystery-writing IMO. You need at least a few red herrings and hopefully they move you closer to the truth by way of excluding what didn't matter. But AAI and AAI2 took on a much more calculated formula, of always throwing in trilogy characters where they don't belong, to patch up the stupidly convoluted case plots, all just to give a brief moment of "aah, wasn't the first 3 games nice??"

Bard · Sep 10, 2020

StrangeRoboMemory said:
"Pathetic"? Kind of an extreme reaction.

Don't see how it's extreme at all. Here you have a new region with a bunch of awesome new pokemon, but instead of putting the focus on these new pokemon you do something like this, claiming that pokemon from the 150 are the most popular in the region and you make the Champion's ace pokemon one of the original starter pokemon instead of one of the new pokemon. It's pathetic, they should put the new pokemon on display in the new region, make them the stars of it and give the attention to them, be proud of them. The pandering to gen 1 specifically is so unnecessary.

Adventureracing said:
Except they never do a good job of it. All i want from starfox is a sequel that is true to the original games and despite them mostly trying to remake it they constantly fuck it up in some way. People like to say how the starfox series just panders to fans of the 64 version. As someone who loves the 64 version i haven't enjoyed a single game since.

I feel like Star Fox is a series with a lot of potential but Nintendo is too stubborn to actually move it into something interesting, so they keep remaking the same game over and over again. That just made me dislike the series since it seems to be getting new chances despite other classic Nintendo IPs not getting them, and these chances are completely wasted in just being remakes of the same game but worse. Despite that they use the excuse of not doing an iterative sequel with other IPs because they want some dumb gimmick to justify that existence. Makes me just look at the StarFox IP with disdain at the end of it all.

Iori Loco · Sep 10, 2020

Uzupedro said:
Runs

Oh god, I've been wanting to rant about how pointless and lame is the pandering fan service in Dark Souls 3 for so long.

For all of Dark Souls 2's faults, it at least feels like a game that wants to be its own, as opposed to 3 that it's just comfortable knowing that it will forever be in the shadow of 1 and doesn't makes the extra effort of being an individual.

Dark Souls 1 told a story of a world that was changing, the age of fire, was nearing its end and all of the grandiiose events about gods, dragons, witches, giants, all that is now in the past. The linking of the flame by Gwyn in the hope of returning the world to its former glory was a huge mistake that not only failed to acomplish that but also brought the undead curse, turning eternal life into something tiresome and hopeless. Anything that looked alright in the surface was just an illusion, the first flame was dieing and the age of darkness was creeping near again.

Dark Souls 2 then tells us that, regardless of the player's choice in 1 of linking the flame or not, multiple chosen undead sacrificed themselves, and the cycle of relinking the flame repeated itself for a long time, giving birth and death to various kingdoms where another chosen undead will go through the pilgrimage of relink without even knowing why they do it, since the whole legend has been forgoten. At some point you may find Aldia, a being who studied the first sin of Gwyn, how it robbed humanity of their reign in the age of darkness and he encourages the player to leave the flame die and go into a new era where nobody knows what it will happen.

And Finally DS3 comes and just doesn't expands on a meaningful way upon anything that 1 or 2 built. It presents you with the lords of cinder, chosen ones who linked the flame at some point, and even implies Aldia had influence over a couple of them, but it doesn't explores anything beyond how the flame is very weak now and how inevitable the age of darkness is, something that we were already told two games prior.

Everything brought back from DS1 felt absolutely cheap and pointless. Bringing back Anor Londo and Gwyndolin was such a pathetic way to prop up the devourer of gods as a real threat. They could have made another godlike being born during this new cycle, but nah, let's just go back to some god from the first game to get the point across. Then we see Gwyn's firstborn, the unnamed king, and we are shown that he was expunged from the records when he made friends with a dragon, which his father kind of wanted erradicated. The problem is not only how uncharacteristic of the series is to just give you an answer so bluntly, but there's also the fact that showing us the nameless king doesn't expand the universe in any interesting way, we just go "ah, okay. That makes sense" about his exile, but we already saw the aftermath, his statue is gone, his name erased from the records, there is no rammifications beyond that.

I would keep ranting but I'll just say that DS3 is disappointing because it presents interesting characters like the lords of cinder and pontiff Sulyvahn, new themes about winged beings, and throws them all to the trash to tells us the same story about the inevitability of the age of dark for the third time. For me it will never stop being exactly this:

I clapped when I saw Anor Londo! I clapped because I know Dark Souls!

It shows how limited the world of Dark Souls is. The unwillingness of the writers to move on from the legends of the first game, to move forward the narrative to the age of dark, what does it means to the world, what's beyond what we glimpsed at Oolacile.

Tiny Chihuahueño · Sep 10, 2020

I think I've seen enough iterations of green hill in this lifetime. No need for more

Xita · Sep 10, 2020

Pokemon the thread

Quacktion · Sep 10, 2020

Uzupedro said:
Runs

Nah, felt just right for, ya know, a sequel, and especially a trilogy conclusion. That fucking final boss is a mastercraft of design, its fanservice sure, but its warranted fanservice, its a send-off and a celebration of all things Dark Souls, all the players, the community, the lore, its the finale other series only dream of and I might have gotten a bit emotional during it not even lying, that piano hits HARD.

Pokemon is the real answer.

SirNinja · Sep 10, 2020

It's been said before, but Pokemon has a blatant and persistent problem with this. Even on Switch we're getting several entire games which almost exclusively have Gen 1 mons, like Let's Go [Pikachu/Eevee] and Pokemon Quest. Rescue Team DX and Cafe Mix are also very heavily Gen 1+2. Even in the new gen, Kanto is everywhere: the three "most popular" mons in the Pokemon version of Great Britain are Charizard, Machamp, and Gengar, and most of the non-new mons with alternate forms are from early gens.

dunkzilla · Sep 10, 2020

The Dead Rising thread reminded me of Dead Rising 4. It's whole hook is "wow look it's the things from Dead Rising 1 again!!!!" without anything that made Dead Rising 1 good.

Sande · Sep 10, 2020

Was thinking of Infinite when I saw the title.

The worst part is that all the ass-kissing, particularly in Burial at Sea, only serves to undermine the original.

Edify · Sep 10, 2020

The Evil Within 2 tries really hard to be its own thing in the first half, with environments and level design that were not or were only briefly represented in the first game. Then it runs out of ideas and does "Remember this from the first game?" for 6 hours.

I actually came away from TEW2 feeling positive about it, mainly because of how well paced and powerful the ending is and also because the resolution of the side chapters was so fuckin' intriguing. But the bit where the game starts throwing watered down versions of boss fights from the first game at you in quick succession made me wince.

MaverickHunterAsh · Sep 10, 2020

DrArchon said:
I'm OK with this just because it was decent chunk of time between the prior classic MM games and MM9 (and even longer between MM2 and MM9). It's a far cry from Pokemon going from X&Y fawning over Gen 1, to Sun & Moon fawning over Gen 1, to remakes of Gen 1, to SwSh fawning over Gen 1.

Fair point, but my counterpoint to that would be to say that yes, while a long time did pass between the prior games and MM9, around 11 years of that time came in-between Mega Man 8 and 9 alone, so the wait for 9 in particular was incredibly long. I was totally cool with the return to the 8-bit NES style — at least temporarily — but after all that time waiting for 9 in particular I would've preferred something that didn't go out of its way to ape one of those prior games (not to mention one I feel is somewhat overrated).

Fortunately I got that with 10 and, (much) later, 11!

StrangeRoboMemory · Sep 10, 2020

Bard said:
Don't see how it's extreme at all. Here you have a new region with a bunch of awesome new pokemon, but instead of putting the focus on these new pokemon you do something like this, claiming that pokemon from the 150 are the most popular in the region and you make the Champion's ace pokemon one of the original starter pokemon instead of one of the new pokemon. It's pathetic, they should put the new pokemon on display in the new region, make them the stars of it and give the attention to them, be proud of them. The pandering to gen 1 specifically is so unnecessary.

What you just described is a fan complaint, something you'd have preferred, maybe a missed opportunity or something worth pointing out. "Pathetic" is a word for something pitiful, low, for shameful human actions, for something worthy of us looking down on it with a bitter reflection of how low we can go. It's a word for something that we find worthy of contempt.*

I mean, read what you wrote: the developers are "claiming that pokemon from the 150 are the most popular in the region and you make the Champion's ace pokemon one of the original starter pokemon instead of one of the new pokemon." Whoa, whoa, whoa, what an outrage. Does that really qualify as "something pitiful, low, a shameful human action, something worthy of us looking down on it with a bitter reflection of how low we can go"?

If it does, I don't know what to say. I feel that gamers use way too much vitriolic language to talk about things that are ultimately incredibly petty.

* Of course, the classical definition of pathetic means something that makes us sad and appeals to our deepest emotions, but I'm going to assume you're not citing Aristotle here.

Bard · Sep 10, 2020

StrangeRoboMemory said:
What you just described is a fan complaint, something you'd have preferred, maybe a missed opportunity or something worth pointing out. "Pathetic" is a word for something pitiful, low, for shameful human actions, for something worthy of us looking down on it with a bitter reflection of how low we can go. It's a word for something that we find worthy of contempt.*

I mean, read what you wrote: the developers are "claiming that pokemon from the 150 are the most popular in the region and you make the Champion's ace pokemon one of the original starter pokemon instead of one of the new pokemon." Whoa, whoa, whoa, what an outrage. Does that really qualify as "something pitiful, low, a shameful human action, something worthy of us looking down on it with a bitter reflection of how low we can go"?

If it does, I don't know what to say. I feel that gamers use way too much vitriolic language to talk about things that are ultimately incredibly petty.

* Of course, the classical definition of pathetic means something that makes us sad and appeals to our deepest emotions, but I'm going to assume you're not citing Aristotle here.

Ah, so it's just about being pedantic then, ok.

bell wood's jet cola · Sep 10, 2020

The whole New Super Mario Brothers series. Give me fresh assets and a fresh art style. I'm so bored with the constant recycling of assets and calls to nostalgia. Remember when each new 2D Mario was a totally fresh experience?

I've also now seen Green HillZone a few too many times...

StrangeRoboMemory · Sep 10, 2020

Bard said:
Ah, so it's just about being pedantic then, ok.

It's about the language that we use to talk about things. I think If you're not willing to engage, that's fine, use whatever language you like to talk about your video games. But brushing it off as just "pedantic" with a one-liner is a lame response.

Butt-shot Katana · Sep 10, 2020

Super Mario Bros. 2 doesn't kiss the first ones ass, nor does any game in the series ever kiss SMB 2's ass.

*sigh* I just really want another SMB 2 type SMB game.

Admiral Woofington · Sep 10, 2020

Uzupedro said:
Runs

I stand with Uzupedro

ClickyCal' · Sep 10, 2020

Butt-shot Katana said:
Super Mario Bros. 2 doesn't kiss the first ones ass, nor does any game in the series ever kiss SMB 2's ass.

*sigh* I just really want another SMB 2 type SMB game.

3d world is probably the closest you'll get

Chief Malik · Sep 10, 2020

Fj0823 said:
Every Pokemon Game since forever.

Was going to be shocked if this wasn't in the OP

BlueRose · Sep 10, 2020

I'm sure it has been said many times over but Pokemon. Galarian's most popular Pokémon being Gen I reps was bordering on parody.

Zuko · Sep 10, 2020

I think early Assassins Creed games did this a decent amount, almost making Altair a god at times. Was definitely strange sometimes.

donpiano · Sep 10, 2020

This thread was made to shit on Pokemon and I'm 100% on board.

Gen 2 needs more love.

Kalentan · Sep 10, 2020

blueredandgold said:
Does Resident Evil 7 go in here?

I wouldn't say so. While it does harken back to RE1 in many ways, it still feels like very much it's own thing with a lot of new ideas, namely on how it uses the First-Person perspective.

But maybe others will disagree with me.

Cugel · Sep 10, 2020

METAL
GEAR
SOLID (if that counts ? I know its not the first METAL GEAR entry, but the first Solid one)

DoubleTake · Sep 10, 2020

I sigh once again at how people take a completely literal reading of the story/lore in Dark Souls 3 and try to pass it off as being nothing but fanservice. The reaction to Dark Souls 3 story is what happens when you get leads who had no idea what the point of DS1 was and stick them on a sequel which largely ignores the things the first game established. Then the original story writer/creator returns and has to retroactively fit those new square pegs into the circle holes they originally created with the first game. And this is for a series who already has a "loose" storytelling method.

The devs know the series and it's ideas were getting long in the tooth. So many item descriptions allude to this, over and over and over again. Its part of why the game is the way it is. From/Miyazaki wanted to move on from Souls and that desire manifested itself in the story we got. Instead people can only pay attention to the things which are obvious like another swamp, or ornstein showing up, or a wolf boss which yes are a bit of fanservice yet serve such little purpose in the point story is trying to get across. Sigh...Dark Souls 3's story is perfectly fine. If you want to blame anything for why you feel it's too full of fanservice, blame Dark Souls 2 for having existed in the form that it does.

Richiek · Sep 10, 2020

Mega Man 2 and Street Fighter 2 are the obvious examples.

The first entries were crude and unpolished, but the sequels perfected their flaws and overshadowed the original.

I suppose you could even apply this to Super Mario Bros. compared to Mario Bros.

EDIT: Fuck. Never mind.

Sesha · Sep 10, 2020

People predictably mentioning Dark Souls 3 as if the whole Dark Souls series wasn't one big incestous circle jerk.

I really loved fighting Ornstein again in Dark Souls 2.

Deleted member 51539 · Sep 10, 2020

Richiek said:
Mega Man 2 and Street Fighter 2 are the obvious examples.

The first entries were crude and unpolished, but the sequels perfected their flaws and overshadowed the original.

I suppose you could even apply this to Super Mario Bros. compared to Mario Bros.

Kiss the ass, not kick the ass. I did the same thing.

Rotobit · Sep 10, 2020

Sonic needs to retire Green Hill Zone, yeah. It's iconic and it made sense to be in Generations and Mania, but it absolutely didn't need to be in Forces.

Kingdom Hearts also needs to stop using Sora's KH1 design. It's his worst by far.

Fj0823 · Sep 10, 2020

donpiano said:
This thread was made to shit on Pokemon and I'm 100% on board.

Gen 2 needs more love.

To be 100% honest I wanted to shit on Bioshock Infinite, but when I started thinking of another example...It has to be Pokemon

KDReyes92 · Sep 10, 2020

Dark Souls 3 is the first one to come to mind.

but I have to give the top spot to Pokemon, since it's been kissing the first gens ass for wayyyy longer.

Schlorgan · Sep 10, 2020

Crysis 3

Feign · Sep 10, 2020

Dice said:
I freaking LOVED Apollo and mentor (slash-hobo) Phoenix dynamic.
Then Athena joins in... :/

I am playing through the series for the first time right now. I just finished AA2 and am going to get to what I've surmised is a favorite in AA3. I haven't heard anything great about Apollo so that's interesting. I haven't even heard of Athena, but now I'm verrrrry curious.

I plan on playing both Investigation games, too. I hear AAI2 is tied with AA3 for fans so I'll do what I can to play the fan translation.

I am embarrassed by how much I am shipping characters in this game. I couldn't decide between Edgeworth and Phoenix or Edgeworth and Gumshoe as my OTP so now they're an OT3. They just don't know it yet.

Kinsei · Sep 10, 2020

Quacktion said:
Nah, felt just right for, ya know, a sequel, and especially a trilogy conclusion. That fucking final boss is a mastercraft of design, its fanservice sure, but its warranted fanservice, its a send-off and a celebration of all things Dark Souls, all the players, the community, the lore, its the finale other series only dream of and I might have gotten a bit emotional during it not even lying, that piano hits HARD.

Pokemon is the real answer.

Soul of Cinder was a fucking terrible final boss. I couldn;t roll my eyes any harder when Gwyn's theme kicked in.

DoubleTake said:
I sigh once again at how people take a completely literal reading of the story/lore in Dark Souls 3 and try to pass it off as being nothing but fanservice. The reaction to Dark Souls 3 story is what happens when you get leads who had no idea what the point of DS1 was and stick them on a sequel which largely ignores the things the first game established. Then the original story writer/creator returns and has to retroactively fit those new square pegs into the circle holes they originally created with the first game. And this is for a series who already has a "loose" storytelling method.

The devs know the series and it's ideas were getting long in the tooth. So many item descriptions allude to this, over and over and over again. Its part of why the game is the way it is. From/Miyazaki wanted to move on from Souls and that desire manifested itself in the story we got. Instead people can only pay attention to the things which are obvious like another swamp, or ornstein showing up, or a wolf boss which yes are a bit of fanservice yet serve such little purpose in the point story is trying to get across. Sigh...Dark Souls 3's story is perfectly fine. If you want to blame anything for why you feel it's too full of fanservice, blame Dark Souls 2 for having existed in the form that it does.

It's almost like the story in Dark Souls doesn't matter and most people actively ignore it.

mikhailguy · Sep 10, 2020

Star Fox

Shovel Knight

Deleted member 49643 · Sep 10, 2020

To add to Pokemon, it's not just the main games either. Recently tried Pokemon Masters on mobile and nearly every pokemon your main character can get are from Kanto. Apparently Goldeen and Bellsprout are more important to add than any of the 800 pokemon that come after.

Not just that, they can't evolve past their Kanto evolutions.
Zubat to Golbat, No Crobat
Onix, No Steelix
Scyther, No Scizor

It's not just Gamefreak, but TPC too. They always have a "Kanto Only" or a "Kanto first" mindset.

Aaron · Sep 10, 2020

Lord Vatek said:
All Sonic games that have Green Hill Zone or an equivalent in it.

Fuck Green Hill Zone. I'm sick of it.

It's kind of hard for people to grasp if they weren't there, and before it was really confirmed by anything (seriously, no one knew this was a thing until the first person with Internet access got all 180 emblems), but this was a genuinely exciting thing:

Oh my gosh, it's Green Hill! But in 3D! It has the same layout as the first level in Sonic 1! The classic Badniks are back! The music and visuals are amazing, Sonic even has the same jump sound effect from the Genesis games! And it was all so good because the Adventure games generally did their own thing with the series, it's not like this was the cherry on top of the nostalgia sundae, this was the first time they ever really acknowledged the Genesis Sonic games in the 3D series in an extremely overt way (SA1 had some musical references to 3D Blast and depicted scenes from Sonic CD, but that was about it).

Now?

Jesus, stop.

Similar vein though, Metal Sonic being brought back has been so overdone that it's no longer as cool as it was when Heroes did it, but especially the fact that it's almost always in conjunction with Stardust Speedway now. Sonic CD used to be the black sheep of the Sonic family, then suddenly it seemed to click with Sega that people liked that game, so you get Stardust Speedway pastiches in Mania, Generations AND Sonic 4: Episode II. It's just like... whatever. When Forces had an ensemble of Sonic villains I was more interested to see Chaos, if anything.

Wise · Sep 10, 2020

Kingdom Hearts and Pokemon

Linus815 · Sep 10, 2020

TheGreatJordan said:
Kingdom Hearts and Pokemon

Kingdom Hearts? How?

Dwebble · Sep 10, 2020

Pokémon's getting a little better at this (I was pleasantly surprised at the amount of regional variants that Gen 5 got in Sword and Shield), but it's still bloody bad. I love the idea of giving older Pokémon new forms and tools, but it's so heavily weighted towards the first generation that it hurts. Here are all the new and alternative forms of Gen I Pokémon, and Pokémon that have been given exclusive Z-Moves, that have been introduced in the last three generations;

Mega Venusaur
Gigantamax Venusaur
Mega Charizard X
Mega Charizard Y
Gigantamax Charizard
Mega Blastoise
Gigantamax Blastoise
Gigantamax Butterfree
Mega Beedrill
Mega Pidgeot
Alolan Rattata
Alolan Raticate
Ash's Hat Pikachu (x8)
Pikachu-exclusive Z Moves (x2)
Gigantamax Pikachu
Alolan Raichu
Alolan Raichu-exclusive Z Move
Alolan Sandshrew
Alolan Sandslash
Alolan Vulpix
Alolan Ninetales
Alolan Diglett
Alolan Dugtrio
Alolan Meowth
Galarian Meowth
Purrserker (Galarian Meowth evo)
Gigantamax Meowth
Alolan Persian
Mega Alakazam
Gigantamax Machamp
Alolan Geodude
Alolan Graveler
Alolan Golem
Galarian Ponyta
Galarian Rapidash
Galarian Slowpoke
Galarian Slowbro
Galarian Farfetch'd
Sirfetch'd (evo to Galarian Farfetch'd)
Alolan Grimer
Alolan Muk
Mega Gengar
Gigantamax Gengar
Gigantamax Kingler
Alolan Exeggutor
Alolan Marowak
Galarian Weezing
Mega Kangaskhan
Galarian Mr. Mime
Mr. Rime (evo to Galarian Mr. Mime)
Mega Pinsir
Mega Gyarados
Gigantamax Lapras
Eevee-exclusive Z Move
Gigantamax Eevee
Sylveon (Eevee evo)
Mega Aerodactyl
Snorlax-exclusive Z Move
Gigantamax Snorlax
Galarian Articuno
Galarian Zapdos
Galarian Moltres
Mega Mewtwo X
Mega Mewtwo Y

By contrast, here's what's been given to Gen 4's Pokémon in that span of time;

Mega Lopunny
Mega Garchomp
Mega Lucario
Mega Abomasnow
Mega Gallade

Meowth has been given as many new toys to play with as an entire generation. That's nuts.

Megaman5 said:
To add to Pokemon, it's not just the main games either. Recently tried Pokemon Masters on mobile and nearly every pokemon your main character can get are from Kanto. Apparently Goldeen and Bellsprout are more important to add than any of the 800 pokemon that come after.

Not just that, they can't evolve past their Kanto evolutions.
Zubat to Golbat, No Crobat
Onix, No Steelix
Scyther, No Scizor

It's not just Gamefreak, but TPC too. They always have a "Kanto Only" or a "Kanto first" mindset.

Masters is just about the last part of the Pokemon franchise I'd level the criticism at, in fairness- the egg system isn't great, but they've done a great job of showcasing trainers and their Pokemon from across the games, which is where the meat of the gameplay is at. No other part of the franchise is giving me events focused around trainers from Sinnoh or Alola like Masters has recently.

Pedrix · Sep 10, 2020

Yeah fuck kanto

the_wart · Sep 10, 2020

DoubleTake said:
I sigh once again at how people take a completely literal reading of the story/lore in Dark Souls 3 and try to pass it off as being nothing but fanservice. The reaction to Dark Souls 3 story is what happens when you get leads who had no idea what the point of DS1 was and stick them on a sequel which largely ignores the things the first game established. Then the original story writer/creator returns and has to retroactively fit those new square pegs into the circle holes they originally created with the first game. And this is for a series who already has a "loose" storytelling method.

The devs know the series and it's ideas were getting long in the tooth. So many item descriptions allude to this, over and over and over again. Its part of why the game is the way it is. From/Miyazaki wanted to move on from Souls and that desire manifested itself in the story we got. Instead people can only pay attention to the things which are obvious like another swamp, or ornstein showing up, or a wolf boss which yes are a bit of fanservice yet serve such little purpose in the point story is trying to get across. Sigh...Dark Souls 3's story is perfectly fine. If you want to blame anything for why you feel it's too full of fanservice, blame Dark Souls 2 for having existed in the form that it does.

I have a hard time buying that the only way to move on from Dark Souls was to make a game so self-referential that the setting collapses into its own ass -- literally, as portrayed in the DLC. Sure, maybe Miyazaki-tensai has some 4D metatextual intention, but that doesn't make 30 hours of throwbacks and fanservice any more interesting a narrative.

And speaking of the DLC, there From did a much better job of creating an experience that feels conclusive without literally retreading the same ground and characters.

Rotobit · Sep 10, 2020

Linus815 said:
Kingdom Hearts? How?

Don't wanna speak on their behalf but personally I hate how that Sora design is used whenever they need a generic Sora, even Dream Drop Distance de-aged him (but thankfully put him in less stupid clothes). His KH2 and 3 designs are much better IMO and better fit the voice actor who isn't pre-pubescent anymore.

Outside of that though they don't really reference KH1 much because so much of it is kinda quaint and simple compared to what came later.

GamerJM said:
I feel like a lot of Ace Attorney past Apollo Justice is the dev team trying to recreate the magic of the first game. Maybe not directly kissing the ass of the first game in the way a lot of games are here, but kissing its ass in spirit, where a lot of the games follow similar progression structures instead of trying to do something new with the series.

I loved the direction Apollo Justice was going (it was basically The Last Jedi of Ace Attorney when you think about it) so the stepping back of so many cool elements made the following games a bit of a chore.

What's worse is that they didn't even bring back Gumshoe, if you're gonna nostalgia-bait at least bring back the best character.

Quacktion · Sep 10, 2020

Kinsei said:
Soul of Cinder was a fucking terrible final boss. I couldn;t roll my eyes any harder when Gwyn's theme kicked in.

It's almost like the story in Dark Souls doesn't matter and most people actively ignore it.

Two bad takes in one post, now thats spicy.

Rutger · Sep 10, 2020

MaverickHunterAsh said:
Fair point, but my counterpoint to that would be to say that yes, while a long time did pass between the prior games and MM9, around 11 years of that time came in-between Mega Man 8 and 9 alone, so the wait for 9 in particular was incredibly long. I was totally cool with the return to the 8-bit NES style — at least temporarily — but after all that time waiting for 9 in particular I would've preferred something that didn't go out of its way to ape one of those prior games (not to mention one I feel is somewhat overrated).

Fortunately I got that with 10 and, (much) later, 11!

MM9 came out one year after Inti made ZXA, which pushed the Mega Man platformer style more than any other game in the series, I can forgive them wanting to have a bit of fun with a classic throwback.

Besides, MM11 throwing in the Yellow Devil was worse as far as this topic is concerned imo. I don't really feel MM9 has anything that blatant.

Rirse · Sep 10, 2020

Asbsand said:
The devs are to blame because they don't put in the extra effort that made said first game so good anymore. They don't actually want to commit to telling a NEW story, so instead they tell a story by way of referencing the things you remember that were so good, leaving you with an inferior and much less original story for a sequel.

Another good example i have is the Ace Attorney Investigation series. Both of them. You gotta be in hardcore love with the series to know what I'm getting at, but the games are built around reintroducing characters in each case that appeared in the first three games, but as glorified cameos. They actually have case-relevant information but their reasons for being there are not just purposefully contrived and cheeky like in the trilogy itself, but it feels like they just threw them in there to patch up holes in the plot, and it hurts the game by giving up upwards of 18 characters for a single case that actually only focuses on 5 of them. So you have 18 characters swelling up to a Naruto-sized ball of actors standing around with their hands down their sides doing absolutely nothing. The only alternative is where the unnecessary characters go off as soon as you've cross-examined them.

Now, I know the original games also had a few stinkers where characters only appeared to tell some discardable info in one trial segment and then didn't ultimately matter that much, but that's just mystery-writing IMO. You need at least a few red herrings and hopefully they move you closer to the truth by way of excluding what didn't matter. But AAI and AAI2 took on a much more calculated formula, of always throwing in trilogy characters where they don't belong, to patch up the stupidly convoluted case plots, all just to give a brief moment of "aah, wasn't the first 3 games nice??"

To be fair with this one, AAI 1 & 2 are set before Apollo Justice. And while yeah they could had a younger version of a character from that series, they don't know Edgeworth so it just some stranger interacting with him. And 2 bought back a place from 1 - 3 that the fans didn't want to remember and it was actually good,

Chumunga64 · Sep 10, 2020

Edify said:
The Evil Within 2 tries really hard to be its own thing in the first half, with environments and level design that were not or were only briefly represented in the first game. Then it runs out of ideas and does "Remember this from the first game?" for 6 hours.

I actually came away from TEW2 feeling positive about it, mainly because of how well paced and powerful the ending is and also because the resolution of the side chapters was so fuckin' intriguing. But the bit where the game starts throwing watered down versions of boss fights from the first game at you in quick succession made me wince.

okay but that was one of the best part of the game since it was Sebastian dealing with his own grief from the past and how Theodore can only use a person's bad memories and inner fears to hurt them and once he can't do that, he's pathetic. It also ties in to the anima substory where Sebastian confronts his past in Beacon

it's not like the game goes "hey look at this!"

Weltall Zero · Sep 10, 2020

Uzupedro said:
Runs

Why run? This is like the perfect poster child for this thread, and that's even though I absolutely adore Dark Souls I.

Hell, my prime concern with Elden Ring is that, being dark fantasy, it also stays too close to DS1. Really hoping it goes the BB / Sekiro reinvention route.

Games in a franchise that kiss the ass of the first entry a little too much

One Winged Slayer

One Winged Slayer

alt account

Good Vibes Gaming

▲ Legend ▲

▲ Legend ▲

Editor at Nintendo Wire

Legendary Duelist

I’m seeing double here!

Editor at Nintendo Wire

One Winged Slayer

Game Developer