Yeah but it is still a real issue for any publisher. Your goals have to stay realistic in accordance to the budget and potential profit instead of loss. If Kojima doesn't respect that it's on him
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Games coloured by fandom hyperbole
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Honestly, after the past 24 hours and the treatment I've gotten from Naughty Dog and TLOU fans and seeing their reactions in that ""TLOU Has Bad Gameplay"" which I'm 100% convinced now was made just to bait people to say the gameplay was average or okay (which apparently = hate?) given the OP original comment and the dog-piling fans are doing there like that "People who say The Last of Us has bad gameplay have no clue what they are talking about, and their opinion can be pretty much immediately dismissed." (which is apparently praise worthy now), at this, f*** Naughty Dog games and f*** their fanbases.
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I played a similar amount of time and gave my copy back to a friend after a weekend with it. I thought it was pretty well made and I enjoyed riding through the landscape, but like you I was underwhelmed by the overhyped Bloody Baron mission. I sometimes consider returning to The Witcher 3 now that I better know what to expect, but it's hard to get excited. I'm glad I played it though!
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Is Hollow Knight really this unresponsive? Is combat similar?
It's not even an issue in white palace. It may be trickier than the rest of the game platforming wise but it's also very forgiving on timings. It's no Celeste or Super Meat Boy.
The complaint about the input deley is a bit like people moaning about the dodge mechanic in Furi for a similar reason. The game factors that in and gives you plenty of room to be successful. Like nearly every game in existence game designers have worked around input delay and we as the player have to adapt to these solutions or design choices.
Just had some lunch and so have some energy to reply to this very interesting discussion. Apologies for having cut down the quote sizes.
At the time of release, all we had played were sprite based games like FF6. Cinematics alone in a jrpg were enough to generate GOAT type of hype. Jrpgs also went from niche to mainstream so I agree with you how odd the conversation about FF7's greatness have gone to extremes over time. It's a solid 8-9/10.
I really hope you will give P5 another chance. I couldn't figure out the P4G hype on Vita for the longest time.
Then around the 20 hour mark I started to get it. Think of it like this: in a jrpg you grind for experience, and can do so in persona, however, the social links developed outside battle areas allow you to a.) enjoy the character development WAY more than a traditional jrpg and b.) fuse stronger personas to take on tougher enemies. So it's a different take on jrpgs from say dragon quest and final fantasy.
It's also set in modern day real world and has some fascinating cultural influences that I really enjoyed learning.
Playing with a guidebook made this immensely more enjoyable for me. Knowing where the locations are is a huge time saver, even though you still have to figure out how to get there on your own.
At the time of release, all we had played were sprite based games like FF6. Cinematics alone in a jrpg were enough to generate GOAT type of hype. Jrpgs also went from niche to mainstream so I agree with you how odd the conversation about FF7's greatness have gone to extremes over time. It's a solid 8-9/10.
I really hope you will give P5 another chance. I couldn't figure out the P4G hype on Vita for the longest time.
Then around the 20 hour mark I started to get it. Think of it like this: in a jrpg you grind for experience, and can do so in persona, however, the social links developed outside battle areas allow you to a.) enjoy the character development WAY more than a traditional jrpg and b.) fuse stronger personas to take on tougher enemies. So it's a different take on jrpgs from say dragon quest and final fantasy.
It's also set in modern day real world and has some fascinating cultural influences that I really enjoyed learning.
Playing with a guidebook made this immensely more enjoyable for me. Knowing where the locations are is a huge time saver, even though you still have to figure out how to get there on your own.
I found it to be frustrating and somewhat unplayable. I asked around about fixing it, apparently it's just part of the core game? I remember going crazy thinking it was my monitor but it seems to be a problem across all platforms.
How exactly did they treat you? From what I saw, you only made 1 post in that thread and no one responded to your comment.
This one for me. While mostly is only people in this site shilling hard for it, every thread pushing the game clearly shows that it's an actually very divisive game, no matter how much they keep repeating how much "everybody should play it", it really isn't a game for everyone.
I can understand the appeal on Undertales but damn, I found the lazy skeleton brother to be annoying than papyrus
The platinum games formula.
I like platinum, they are good studio but most of their games share the Bayonetta combat with some add-ons. It's getting tiresome.
Nier Autómata is great but not because of the combat.
That's why I was eager for scalebound, a good sido doing something different.
I like platinum, they are good studio but most of their games share the Bayonetta combat with some add-ons. It's getting tiresome.
Nier Autómata is great but not because of the combat.
That's why I was eager for scalebound, a good sido doing something different.
Yep and it gets really frustrating at various points in the game, not just the White Palace as a poster earlier claimed. Still a brilliant game though
Is true tho, all of it
No self respecting action game fan has any excuse to not have played at least three or four Ys games
I played through almost all of Hollow Knight and this never ended up being a problem for me.
Recently I would say Uncharted 4, but really almost all of the popular sequels fans label "bad" or "disappointing" aren't in my experience. Uncharted 4 had flaws, especially with Sam and the antagonists, but I still thought it was an amazing experience, it's been a hot minute since I played UC2 but UC1 and 3 both had there own issues.
Wolfenstein TNC was good, but I thought nearly everything besides presentation was a downgrade from TNO. TNO was secretly amazing.
Dark Souls 2.
I was lead to believe this game is trash. Yet I found it to be a competent game though the worst in the series. Shows how much quality the series has if this is the worst one yet still good.
I was lead to believe this game is trash. Yet I found it to be a competent game though the worst in the series. Shows how much quality the series has if this is the worst one yet still good.
Tales is sort of an interesting case where the Team Destiny games didn't get localized and those are the ones with the most fun gameplay. And if that's what you look for in a Tales game (and I'd imagine much of the fan base does) then the unlocalized ones ARE the best in the series.
My personal favorite to play is Destiny 2 just cause the battle system feels so loose and fun.
Every once in a while there are games so good that I can't help but feel the hype in their fandoms is more or less earned. Bioshock, Earthbound and Shadow of the Colossus being some examples.
Sometimes there's an air of self-importance around Soulsborne fans, as though they think they're a higher grade of gamer for playing them to the end. There are plenty of other impressively-designed games that are just as if not more challenging, but FromSoft's seem to be held to a higher standard, possibly because of how influential the combat systems' mechanics are.
Sometimes there's an air of self-importance around Soulsborne fans, as though they think they're a higher grade of gamer for playing them to the end. There are plenty of other impressively-designed games that are just as if not more challenging, but FromSoft's seem to be held to a higher standard, possibly because of how influential the combat systems' mechanics are.
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Bioshock was definitely a game that suffered from the classic fan line of 'the game has a really amazing story but if I tell you anything it'll spoil it. The press was like this too, as most of the US press reviewed it on location and gave it top marks without any reservations.
I bought Bioshock and quit playing after several hours of annoying combat and being teleported to the nearest respawn cupboard.
I later learned what was so amazing in Bioshock that must never be spoiled, and it's true that this is a nice conceit, but this behaviour swiftly ignores a bad time players might have trying to get there.
'Clever story twists with hours of irritating combat' also sums up Earthbound and Undertale.
I'm playing Earthbound (SNESC) and I think fans insane praise is justified.
For Inside, I don't know how anyone who have played the game think that ending is ordinary. It's not and it makes you really think which rarely happened in video games stories.
For Inside, I don't know how anyone who have played the game think that ending is ordinary. It's not and it makes you really think which rarely happened in video games stories.
I love Bioshock's gameplay because even though its shooting mechanics aren't smooth like Doom's and Titanfall's, there's something special about Rapture and the degree of freedom you have to interact with everything there. You can shoot stuff, use telekinesis to pick up and launch anything in the environment, use an enrage plasmid to turn creatures against each other and spectate their battle, launch frickin' bees out of your arms, hack turrets to protect you, hack big daddies to protect you, knock enemies back with a shockwave, and much more. Everything feels so dynamic and alive - there's a legit ecosystem going on between the splicers, big daddies, little sisters, and robots. All taking place in a setting/world that's truly unique and begs to be explored and revisited. There's still no setting in games at all like Rapture, and I think that sense of feeling immersed in a fascinating place that contextualizes gameplay which gives you tons of options to experiment and mess around there is pretty rare in games.
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Add publishers that also own a hardware platform to that. :P
I played Florence after hearing nothing but praise for it's phenomenal story telling and really relatable story.
...It was fine? There was some cool stuff but at the end of the day it...was a pretty simplistic exercise in story telling. I think I would have enjoyed it a lot more if people didn't hype it up as much.
...It was fine? There was some cool stuff but at the end of the day it...was a pretty simplistic exercise in story telling. I think I would have enjoyed it a lot more if people didn't hype it up as much.
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These things are all true but I simply hated every moment of Bioshock's combat.
When we champion games it's important not to lose sight of how the gameplay may clash with another player's skills or interests. Players become hardened to common design decisions that are irritating for other players.
Metroid Prime Federation Force. There's a legit excellent co-op based shooter there, where nearly every single mission has its own unique twist or goal.
The only downside is people wanted Metronidazole Prime 4 and roasted the shit out it, instead of letting it be it's own thing. To be fair, screenshots don't do it favours, not does being a co-op game on a handheld.
If it ever got released on switch I hope it would get the appreciation it deserves. It could probably pull off a f2p release with a bunch of skins too considering it had them anyway.
The only downside is people wanted Metronidazole Prime 4 and roasted the shit out it, instead of letting it be it's own thing. To be fair, screenshots don't do it favours, not does being a co-op game on a handheld.
If it ever got released on switch I hope it would get the appreciation it deserves. It could probably pull off a f2p release with a bunch of skins too considering it had them anyway.
I feel like it gets to a point where it becomes a debate about subjective things. Like, I get that Bioshock's shooting feels clunky compared to the best-playing first person shooters now and it's definitely a flaw, but I feel the same way about wanting more substantial immersive sim mechanics in first person shooters that you probably do with wanting more responsive shooting mechanics, sooo.....
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Ohhh I need to back this up as well. I remember enjoying GR when it launched, but not finding it to be particularly great. I liked it enough to take a free download code for the second and honestly just disliked it--nothing felt good, the story was unclear, combat was confusing, and there was just so much trash to wade through to get to anything interesting. I see people here talk about it (and recall a few journalists vouching for it) like it's the best game ever and I'm just completely lost as to how anyone thought it was anything above mediocre (I couldn't even get there).
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You're assuming a lot about what I want from the combat. I didn't enjoy Titanfall or Doom 2016 either. It's possible I just don't enjoy first person combat that much.
I have tried various immersive sims since but unfortunately they are all so combat focused and wrapped up in almost the exact same narrative as each other.
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This sounds awesome. Who did you play Federation Force co-op with? Was it in person or online? Finding players who bought it must be tricky.
So yeah, we're talking about a subjective thing here - you're just not a fan of first person combat, so fair enough. I assumed you were critiquing Bioshock for its flaws instead of something that comes down to your personal taste is all.
But on the subject of not liking first person combat, I agree. So many games are based around shooting the fuck out of everything that moves and it can limit creativity in the industry. Not everything in first person needs to be a shooter. Every once in a while there's something fresh, like Breakdown, Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath, Mirror's Edge, Metroid Prime, Gone Home, Portal, Soma, etc, but for the most part it seems like so many first person games prioritize guns/shooting/etc as the main form of interaction in a world, which is unfortunate.
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Matchmaking around launch was usually pretty easy - haven't played in a while but after seeing copies for £5 I now own 3 copies of the game, so if I ever want to play locally with someone I can handle it. If you buy it now and want to play online though... yeah, you gotta go pre-arrange this somewhere to actually find a game.
It's a shame because although there are single player "bots" you can play with, they're pretty damned useless and some of the missions are near impossible with them. It's pretty clear the game, like The Legend of Zelda Triforce Heroes, was designed for co-op. F2P on Switch would give it an awesome lease of life - but I think Nintendo are probably pretty scared of doing such a thing given the reception it from the fandom from the second it was announced.
Sorry to bring an old threat back to life but recently, the sheer amount of nasty fandom hyperbole has been getting to me and I need to vent a little.
I'm really getting sick of fandom's "If you criticise anything you're just "entitled", a bad fan, "no better than gamergate", "endorse harassment"", the latter two piss me off so much because it feels so exploitative or a serious real world issue, if you don't care fine, but comparing some being disappointed that the subs got changed in Evangelion to change love to like makes them no better than someone who sends death threats is f***ing horrid (and yes I've seen this). The sheer smugness and elitism around is sickening to me and it's been making me feel depressed.
I've been seeing this over and over again and it got worse in the past two years. And yes the fact that a lot of these fans come out in full force when LGBTQ+ issues are the ones being talked about hasn't slipped my mind, funny how you can't complain about Cyberpunk the moment you bring out worries about it's depiction of Trans issues as I saw from a few weeks back.
Pokemon has been the worst for me is this regard, but it's not the only one, it feels like so many people now just want to do their "gotcha" posts that it seems like form of reasonable discussion gets thrown out the window.
I'm really getting sick of fandom's "If you criticise anything you're just "entitled", a bad fan, "no better than gamergate", "endorse harassment"", the latter two piss me off so much because it feels so exploitative or a serious real world issue, if you don't care fine, but comparing some being disappointed that the subs got changed in Evangelion to change love to like makes them no better than someone who sends death threats is f***ing horrid (and yes I've seen this). The sheer smugness and elitism around is sickening to me and it's been making me feel depressed.
I've been seeing this over and over again and it got worse in the past two years. And yes the fact that a lot of these fans come out in full force when LGBTQ+ issues are the ones being talked about hasn't slipped my mind, funny how you can't complain about Cyberpunk the moment you bring out worries about it's depiction of Trans issues as I saw from a few weeks back.
Pokemon has been the worst for me is this regard, but it's not the only one, it feels like so many people now just want to do their "gotcha" posts that it seems like form of reasonable discussion gets thrown out the window.
Discovered Undertale only this year and fell in love with it straight away. Not a fan of the genre nor have I played the games that inspired it.
