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Games as a Service? It has now been four weeks since the official Anthem Twitter has tweeted anything self.

Nintendo

Nintendo

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,383
Doctor_Thomas said:
Too many service games, not enough players.

Bubble isn't burst, but it is slowly deflating.
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No it isn't. There are more than enough players. It's just that Anthem is bad and no one wants to play it.
Some people will spin anything into "service games are dying" lol. That's ironic since it's exactly the same thing as when people said singleplayer games are dying.
 
StiLteD

StiLteD

Member
Nov 11, 2017
810
London
Eumi said:
God, I absolutely despise this new weaponisation of crunch as a dismissal of criticism, it's so gross.

It's not on the people buying the products to alter their spending habits and outlook so the giant publishers don't feel the need to abuse their workers, it's on the giant companies to not abuse their workers in the first place.

If Anthem is a game that either doesn't update with the regularity it needs or forces its workers to crunch to do so, then that is very very good grounds to criticise games as a service as a whole. From day 1 Anthem has sold itself as a game that would grow and improve over time, and that claim has absolutely made them money and earned them critical slack. So if they're now in a place where they either don't follow through on what they sold the game on or abuse their workers, then that just means that EA shouldn't have made the claims they made in the first place. We've already heard about the awful working conditions those game had, and they existed far before anybody even could start criticising the game.

To try and blame the issues in the industry with crunch on the people least responsible for it is baffling to me, and when you pull out that edgy " no one actually cares about crunch, they're just pretending to" all you're doing is delegitimising the current push to improve the conditions that people who work in the games industry often have to suffer through.
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I like the cut of your jib. Agreed, and well stated.
 
Doctor_Thomas

Doctor_Thomas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,657
Nintendo said:
No it isn't. There are more than enough players. It's just that Anthem is bad and no one wants to play it.
Some people will spin anything into "service games are dying" lol. That's ironic since it's exactly the same thing as when people said singleplayer games are dying.
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Single player games have never been dying though.

The issue with service games is that they are time sinks thay require undivided attention and people don't tend to play multiple service games meaning there's a finite amount of players willing to be long term players.

This isn't a controversial statement.
 
Mechanized

Mechanized

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,442
Alandring said:
Gamers: crunch is unacceptable, we should boycott every game which had crunch.

Also gamers: hey, this game didn't have an update since one month? It's absolutely unacceptable! We deserve more.
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They can give an update.. "hey guys still working on xyz, we'll have more to share soon."

People aren't expecting the game to be overhauled week to week.
 
Nintendo

Nintendo

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,383
Doctor_Thomas said:
Single player games have never been dying though.

The issue with service games is that they are time sinks thay require undivided attention and people don't tend to play multiple service games meaning there's a finite amount of players willing to be long term players.

This isn't a controversial statement.
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And GaaS have never been dying though. Many people play multiple service games just fine. I play 10+ GaaS games. They don't require undivided attention by any means.
 
Dphex

Dphex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,811
Cologne, Germany
ch4fx_ said:
But FREE content updates though, right?
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tenor.gif
 
DontHateTheBacon

DontHateTheBacon

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,388
Brutal.

As much as it needed tons and tons of work... I'm gonna miss flying around in my fat boy colossus.
 
Asbsand

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
BioWare as a Service doesn't work. Take that incentive to direct the company to make Games as a Goods, EA. You know what you have to do.
 
GranddadFreeman

GranddadFreeman

Member
May 18, 2018
588
shark97 said:
You forgot all the forum and youtube infliuencer cheerleaders with "look how transparent they're being compared to Destiny!"

Anyways out of curiosity I checked twitch viewers. Couldn't find it right away, searched...

82 viewers. wow, I had no idea it was that bad.
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Those youtube people were something else.

"Don't worry guys, the beta is bad yes, BUT I've played something that was closer to the final build and it should be just fine at release"
*2 weeks later*
"Yes, I know the release is bad according to some people. Even I have some complaints BUT I'm confident in Bioware making the necessary updates for this fantastic game"
*2 more weeks later*
"Here's my guide to get some of the top tier weapons in The Division 2"
 
Swiggins

Swiggins

was promised a tag
Member
Apr 10, 2018
11,452
Probably time for Papa EA to go take Bioware out back.

I remember when people were speculating whether or not Anthem would be a 'Destiny Killer' even after Forsaken came out and completely revitalized the game.

There's maybe only a handful of GaaS games that are actually worth the price of admission; and even then you're probably better of just coming in a year down the line when the bugs are fixed and the dlc content's been added.
 
Pancracio17

Pancracio17

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,786
I doubt its dead. More worth it to do a big ass update that fixes everything than to launch a new game.
 
Akita One

Akita One

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,628
GranddadFreeman said:
Those youtube people were something else.

"Don't worry guys, the beta is bad yes, BUT I've played something that was closer to the final build and it should be just fine at release"
*2 weeks later*
"Yes, I know the release is bad according to some people. Even I have some complaints BUT I'm confident in Bioware making the necessary updates for this fantastic game"
*2 more weeks later*
"Here's my guide to get some of the top tier weapons in The Division 2"
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LOL I laughed hard...good one...so true tho.

Swiggins said:
There's maybe only a handful of GaaS games that are actually worth the price of admission; and even then you're probably better of just coming in a year down the line when the bugs are fixed and the dlc content's been added.
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There has only been maybe 5 or so AAA GaaS games this gen not named, Battlefield or Call of Duty, and all have been very successful except this one. The same thing you said is applicable to MMOs (which are also GaaS).
 

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
8,852
Pancracio17 said:
I doubt its dead. More worth it to do a big ass update that fixes everything than to launch a new game.
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I can sort of see the wisdom of going dark and surprise everyone with a reworked and massively improved game in six to twelve months, but if I was one of the people who shelled out the full price for this, I'd be pissed off.
 
Pancracio17

Pancracio17

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,786
Claven said:
I can sort of see the wisdom of going dark and surprise everyone with a reworked and massively improved game in six to twelve months, but if I was one of the people who shelled out the full price for this, I'd be pissed off.
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And rightfully so, but the L is already taken, nothing you can do about it. The best option going foward for them would be to go for the big update option imo, at least it would be less expensive than developing another full blown game.
Besides, plenty of games have managed a comeback thanks to updates.
 
chrominance

chrominance

Sky Van Gogh
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,641
The reason the No Man's Sky comparison doesn't really fly is because for months, everyone assumed the game WAS dead. Hello Games was incommunicado, the game was getting stability updates and fixes and little else, and everyone sort of forgot about the game for a while. When Hello Games returned with its first major update, it was a pleasant surprise because no one had any expectations at that point. No Man's Sky had launched; it was found wanting; as a traditional packaged game, there was no real expectation of ongoing support.

Anthem is entirely different. The whole model is based around continuous updates. At E3 one year, representatives of the dev team talked about how Anthem was explicitly engineered in a way that made it easier to deliver ongoing story content, and that it was going to be a competitive advantage for them.

No Man's Sky not getting updates for months was the expectation, and when it finally got the revamp it deserved, that defied expectations in a good way. Anthem not getting updates for months directly contradicts the expectations EA and Bioware set up for the game. If the reason for Bioware's radio silence is indeed crunch, they should've known from the outset that the game they set out to make would be impossible to maintain, and at that point should have made a different game.
 
DrBo42

DrBo42

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,760
GranddadFreeman said:
Those youtube people were something else.

"Don't worry guys, the beta is bad yes, BUT I've played something that was closer to the final build and it should be just fine at release"
*2 weeks later*
"Yes, I know the release is bad according to some people. Even I have some complaints BUT I'm confident in Bioware making the necessary updates for this fantastic game"
*2 more weeks later*
"Here's my guide to get some of the top tier weapons in The Division 2"
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They're called Game Changers for a reason. Just not the reason EA intended.
 
Skyball Paint

Skyball Paint

Member
Nov 12, 2017
1,667
Alandring said:
Gamers: crunch is unacceptable, we should boycott every game which had crunch.

Also gamers: hey, this game didn't have an update since one month? It's absolutely unacceptable! We deserve more.
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I don't think it requires crunch to talk to the community sometimes and offer some assurance that you're not going to abandon them.
 

Deleted member 5604

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,575
They're probably gonna have a big update in July coinciding with the launch of EA Access on PS4 (and Anthem will be in the vault at that point), be active for a couple of months with communication with minor updates here and there, if activity isn't near where they want it, they'll go quiet again, and sometime near the middle of next year, kill the servers.
 
John Rabbit

John Rabbit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,113
What does 'crunch' have to do with 'hey maybe talk to the community every so often'?

There's a lot of things they could be doing to engage with the community that don't fall under "development crunch". Share photos of the developers working with fun insights, short impromptu interviews with the staff, highlight cool videos that community members have posted, do livestreams with giveaways and contests, etc etc. Warframe and Destiny do this kind of thing weekly and it at least shows there's a team of real human beings behind this whole thing that really care about making a good product.
 
DrBo42

DrBo42

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,760
John Rabbit said:
What does 'crunch' have to do with 'hey maybe talk to the community every so often'?

There's a lot of things they could be doing to engage with the community that don't fall under "development crunch". Share photos of the developers working with fun insights, short impromptu interviews with the staff, highlight cool videos that community members have posted, do livestreams with giveaways and contests, etc etc. Warframe and Destiny do this kind of thing weekly and it at least shows there's a team of real human beings behind this whole thing that really care about making a good product.
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I think they've realized any communication from the team or community managers has just resulted in pure toxicity and a rekindled dumpster fire. Can't really blame them for going radio silent until they have something to show. The game is in too poor a state with too small a community to foster this fun environment you're suggesting.
 
data

data

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,724
It's unfortunate but the reality of GAAS games.

Without updates, you stop providing a service. Probably the reason a lot of GAAS die, because updates aren't fast enough
 
TheYanger

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,153
EA: Launch game that doesn't go over well, ABANDON IT IMMEDIATELY.
Meanwhile Ubisoft is like "Release game to critical failure, invest resources and care into improving product until it becomes one of the most popular videogames in the world"


Fuck EA
 
Vipu

Vipu

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,276
data said:
It's unfortunate but the reality of GAAS games.

Without updates, you stop providing a service. Probably the reason a lot of GAAS die, because updates aren't fast enough
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Well the games needs some base content to keep people busy before the next update comes.
 
DarthWalden

DarthWalden

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,030
I feel bad for the devs here, the game wasn't in any shape to launch but did anyways due to EA and they are probably trying to frantically fix the game and don't want to take the time to provide updates.


Having said that if you want an example of developer support and communication done right in a GAAS, look no further than Sea of Thieves. Those guys also launched a mostly half complete game but that didn't cause them to shy away from the public. They owned it and provided weekly sometimes daily updates on how they intended to fix things.
 
Eoin

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,103
TheYanger said:
EA: Launch game that doesn't go over well, ABANDON IT IMMEDIATELY.
Meanwhile Ubisoft is like "Release game to critical failure, invest resources and care into improving product until it becomes one of the most popular videogames in the world"


Fuck EA
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Yeah this is actually a really interesting contrast. It's not just games that end up growing in popularity, one of the things that struck me about Ubisoft games this generation was that they tended to support most of them for longer than I'd have expected any other company to support a similar release.

I decided to do a bit of a check on Ubisoft's social media accounts. The last Anthem Twitter post of substance was on April 23rd and the last Twitter post of any kind was a retweet on April 30th. I checked how Ubisoft's games - at least, the ones with Twitter accounts - compared to that.

Did the Assassin's Creed Twitter post in May? Sure did.
How about Fry Cry? Since New Dawn is a recent release (though...still not as recent as Anthem), as expected, yes.
What about The Crew 2? Yep, lots of posts in May.
Something that isn't even out yet like Skull and Bones? Yes, although only to confirm a delay. It still has at least one post every calendar month though.
What about Starlink, that's getting old and doesn't seem to have picked up a huge audience? Still has posts in May.
Rabbids, even though it's not a service game and the only DLC was nearly a year ago? Updated virtually daily.
For Honor? Usually updated several times per day.
Fucking Steep? Well, considering this one was a commercial failure and is also ancient, I guess it's no surprise to see that....it's also updated daily.

For something like Anthem not to be as anywhere near as socially active (on any major social media platform) as something like Steep is quite a poor show.
 
Gentlemen

Gentlemen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,527
Brock Reiher said:
literally just retweet fan art and twitch clips once a week to show you haven't stopped caring
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New Era Thread: "Official Anthem Twitter Hasn't Posted Anything But Fanart In Four Weeks"
There's no pleasing crybabies who think their sixty dollars bought them a seat at the board of directors. Either bail or keep playing and praying, this weird call for 'transparency' reeks of fishing for more things to feed the very cycles of hype and outrage that make reddit the worst place to source gaming discussion from.
 
Com_Raven

Com_Raven

Brand Manager
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,103
Europa
Truth is that there is no scenario where they can win, and won't have lots of people hate on them.

Right after launch, they were pretty active telling people that they were aware of and tracking issues. Then players got fed up with that, and got angry everytime someone from BioWare posted somewhere (for example reddit), telling them to only come back when they have something meaningful to say.

So now they stay quiet, which makes another subset of the community angry.

There is no winning here, either way. Though the keeping quiet seems to have gone really weelk for Hello Games, I guess.
 
TheMan

TheMan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,264
at this point whatever they release may be too little too late. It sounds like the player pop has already dwindled to the point that buying this game is now useless cause the playercount can't support easy matchmaking.

Shame, this will go down as one of the biggest disappointments of the gen for me.
 
data

data

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,724
Com_Raven said:
Truth is that there is no scenario where they can win, and won't have lots of people hate on them.

Right after launch, they were pretty active telling people that they were aware of and tracking issues. Then players got fed up with that, and got angry everytime someone from BioWare posted somewhere (for example reddit), telling them to only come back when they have something meaningful to say.

So now they stay quiet, which makes another subset of the community angry.

There is no winning here, either way. Though the keeping quiet seems to have gone really weelk for Hello Games, I guess.
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I think a weekly update would've been better than going completely cold turkey.
 
panda-zebra

panda-zebra

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,737
TheYanger said:
EA: Launch game that doesn't go over well, ABANDON IT IMMEDIATELY.
Meanwhile Ubisoft is like "Release game to critical failure, invest resources and care into improving product until it becomes one of the most popular videogames in the world"


Fuck EA
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It's not abandoned though. Austin are still dedicated to the game.

I mean it's obviously not going at all well, the roadmap is in the bin, and hardly anyone has any reason to play currently... but it's simply not true to say the game is abandoned.
 

SecondNature

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,159
I like my GaaS. I will never understand why people would buy Anthem blindly when its a new EA IP that was clearly overpromising in a genre that already had frustrating entries like Destiny and Division.
 
Com_Raven

Com_Raven

Brand Manager
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,103
Europa
data said:
I think a weekly update would've been better than going completely cold turkey.
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It's not what i would have done if it was up to me either, just saying that the going completely dark approach can work as a strategy IF they can release a notable update in the not too distant future.

Of course, that if is the big question here.
 
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