Maybe Canada ? Canada has a ton of studios. I think you can add UK and maybe Poland
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Games are a uniquely international medium
- Thread starter Magog
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I was thinking of a lot of studios but didn't know if they were actually parts of bigger studios from other countries. I did add the UK and Poland deserves a mention too.
These are the sort of ignorant of other media takes that make me embarrassed to be into gaming. There's tons of major Swedish filmmakers and just because American audiences are very averse to international film doesn't mean Swedish cinema isn't important globally.
I think the issue here is the level of engagement. If you follow film websites you will absolutely hear about new films from the countries you mentioned. How many people who aren't on resetera or follow gaming press know about Valheim or Stalker? It's the same dynamic.
Interesting, yeah that's probably a huge part of it. Wider access to games from other western countries due to near simultaneous marketing and release, whereas in some other media, 'breaking through in America' is a much bigger deal.
I'd argue that the diversity of perspectives within Europe (as interesting and evocative as they are, and then +US and Japan) is still much reduced compared to a truly international one though. That Japan punches miles above it's weight in the games industry still doesn't make US+Europe+Japan, which is how the mainstream games industry has been viewed in terms of sales, coverage and regions for a very long time (including on this board), truly global in the way that music is. Purely through the removal of Japan making it crazy white and western.
Having said that, the variety of different perspectives in this thread is interesting :-)
OP
OP
I probably picked a bad example but Valheim was able to do it without the backing of a major publisher.
Didn't mean it as an insult and clearly I have an American bias since that's my only perspective but look at something like Genshin Impact. How many of those millions of players have sat down to listen to a Chinese music album?
Music is probably the bad example for Chinese softpower. How many have seen a Wuxia movie or popular Chinese drama on Netflix? Probably a good amount
Ha, I'm glad someone caught them. I genuinely have appreciation for Abba.
Sorry, swedish movies are not important worldwide in terms of financial success, very niche. In gaming, Sweden has a ton of studios, like Mojang and DICE, and a giant publisher THQ Nordic
Assassin's Creed: Valhalla isn't a Swedish game, though. This is a weird thread considering that so many other media already does this.
EDIT: Misread! Oops!
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OP
OP
I doubt it. I think the engagement with Chinese movies on Netflix is pretty low given they are never in the "popular on Netflix" section.
Well financial success versus artistic relevance are different questions yes. But if we are talking about these forms of media as art and not commercial products Sweden is very relevant in terms of art cinema. Roy Andersson and Ruben Ostlund are both incredibly important contemporary filmmakers.
This is...incredibly ignorant on the history of cinema and music as a whole. Cinema alone has had such a wider distribution compared to games, chiefly from eastern Europe, Arab countries, various African nations, plenty of locations on which gaming as a whole flat out ignores or doesn't want to touch.
But also, no, video games is really not as international as one might think. It is HUGELY US centric, and there's been a push from a lot of devs to change that because it's become such a problem:
- While you can point to Japan/Asia, a lot of those big games have shifted a lot to accomodate western audiences as well, both mechanically and culturally. There has been a constant shift to centralize more and more things to the US as well business wide. And a lot of the games that are made for an actual Asian audience get buried by the (mostly western) press
- The vast majority of events surrounding games still happen in the US. Hell, the biggest ones still happen in only a few specific parts of the US (ie coastal cities or tech cities). A large portion of the world cannot even participate in these events due to either distance, or even being from countries the US is hostile towards (try asking any devs from the African continent to South America how easy it is to attend something like GDC, or PAX).
- The quasi totality of big budget games are American, or designed for American audiences. They all fall in the same type of presentation, narration or themes that will follow a mostly American/Western bias. It doesn't really matter how diverse your team is if at the end of the day you still go by tropes that are mostly reflected by American culture (see: Ghost of Tsushima's interpretation of the samurai myth, Horizon's interpretation of Native culture, etc.. etc..). Games being about other counties does not mean these game represent those countries. Mostly it would even be the opposite.
There has been progress, but games are from being as international as we'd think. For the most part, 80% of the world is not being represented accurately by games as it is, even on indie standards
But also, no, video games is really not as international as one might think. It is HUGELY US centric, and there's been a push from a lot of devs to change that because it's become such a problem:
- While you can point to Japan/Asia, a lot of those big games have shifted a lot to accomodate western audiences as well, both mechanically and culturally. There has been a constant shift to centralize more and more things to the US as well business wide. And a lot of the games that are made for an actual Asian audience get buried by the (mostly western) press
- The vast majority of events surrounding games still happen in the US. Hell, the biggest ones still happen in only a few specific parts of the US (ie coastal cities or tech cities). A large portion of the world cannot even participate in these events due to either distance, or even being from countries the US is hostile towards (try asking any devs from the African continent to South America how easy it is to attend something like GDC, or PAX).
- The quasi totality of big budget games are American, or designed for American audiences. They all fall in the same type of presentation, narration or themes that will follow a mostly American/Western bias. It doesn't really matter how diverse your team is if at the end of the day you still go by tropes that are mostly reflected by American culture (see: Ghost of Tsushima's interpretation of the samurai myth, Horizon's interpretation of Native culture, etc.. etc..). Games being about other counties does not mean these game represent those countries. Mostly it would even be the opposite.
There has been progress, but games are from being as international as we'd think. For the most part, 80% of the world is not being represented accurately by games as it is, even on indie standards
Oh I didn't so much mean on Netflix there. But Hong Kong crime cinema and Chinese martial arts films are massive globally.
This is a very American/European world view, in Taiwan the most popular games are Chinese or Korean MMOs that are never translated to English. like most books/tv shows based on ancient Chinese history/figures they are just never going to translate because western people have no idea who they are
how many Jackie Chan movies have you seen? Did you know there's like 120 of them?
I find it hard to agree with Games being a "uniquely international medium". As others have pointed out in this thread I think it's rather easy to argue how the film / streaming industry and the music business is much more international. I also feel that people are completely forgetting about literature.
Many countries around the globe are virtually producing no games outside some indie games perhaps. With the big players like the US, Japan, China (mostly for mobile games) and a few companies in Europe I would actually say that the game industry is significantly less international than any of the mediums I mentioned above.
At the same time it's so easy to find international films, tv shows, books and the likes that are successful around the globe...
International cinema and literature might not be as dominant in the US. But then again the US is not the world :p
Many countries around the globe are virtually producing no games outside some indie games perhaps. With the big players like the US, Japan, China (mostly for mobile games) and a few companies in Europe I would actually say that the game industry is significantly less international than any of the mediums I mentioned above.
At the same time it's so easy to find international films, tv shows, books and the likes that are successful around the globe...
International cinema and literature might not be as dominant in the US. But then again the US is not the world :p
Honestly, this says more about you and your relationship to other mediums than the medium, OP.
Music, movies and literature are already pretty international and represent more countries and cultures than games.
Music, movies and literature are already pretty international and represent more countries and cultures than games.
Ok? How many Nicholas Cage movies have you seen? Did you know there's 110?
That's just par the course for some actors and directors. What are you even getting at?
This post just shows how ignorant you are to swedish contributions which producers have heavily influenced modern pop music and EDM
I do not necessarily agree with the premise of the thread if it comes to consumption of games. Or at least not when viewed from a Western (Yes, EU is varied, but has a lot of commonalities) perspective, where I think most games enjoyed come from other Western countries, Japan and a growing segment of other titles from Asia.
But where I think games stand out to me, is the ability to (self) publish on very big global marketplaces (Steam, Android/App store) with somewhat limited competition. Music is easier to publish, but competition is murderous, so it's much harder to stand out. Movies and literature are easier to stand out, but harder to publish. In that way gaming seems way more balanced and that makes it probably an 'easier' medium to break borders.
'AAA' titles though, definitly not.
But where I think games stand out to me, is the ability to (self) publish on very big global marketplaces (Steam, Android/App store) with somewhat limited competition. Music is easier to publish, but competition is murderous, so it's much harder to stand out. Movies and literature are easier to stand out, but harder to publish. In that way gaming seems way more balanced and that makes it probably an 'easier' medium to break borders.
'AAA' titles though, definitly not.
This is quite tragic actually. OP, I would really encourage you to broaden your cultural perspective please.
Just looking at cinema movements alone: French New Wave, Italian Neorealism, Bollywood, Hong Kong Action Cinema, Nordic Noir, The New French Extremity etc etc. I could go on. Do you think just because Parasite won an Oscar that the Koreans only started making movies just now? Ever seen Old Boy?
I guess people in the US are only exposed to non-US films when they make them into one of those awful remakes.
And then music? Literally made and appreciated from all over the world from Southern Africa to northern Europe.
In fact I find gaming to be actually regressive in this respect. There may be studios all over the world but how many of them are just making games set in or about the US? Even Hollywood has a more international focus these days in terms of location and setting.
Just looking at cinema movements alone: French New Wave, Italian Neorealism, Bollywood, Hong Kong Action Cinema, Nordic Noir, The New French Extremity etc etc. I could go on. Do you think just because Parasite won an Oscar that the Koreans only started making movies just now? Ever seen Old Boy?
I guess people in the US are only exposed to non-US films when they make them into one of those awful remakes.
And then music? Literally made and appreciated from all over the world from Southern Africa to northern Europe.
In fact I find gaming to be actually regressive in this respect. There may be studios all over the world but how many of them are just making games set in or about the US? Even Hollywood has a more international focus these days in terms of location and setting.
Yup and modern cinema has been heavily shaped by the likes of Carl Theodore Dreyer and Ingmar Bergman.
music...I heard you don't need any hardware to experience it
But seriously, you really need to look into things outside of video games in life if you seriously that
Yeah what's the video game equivalent of a drumming circle? Just some guys sitting around a camp fire making a video game? ha ha.
Little Dragon, Robyn, Avicii, Lykke Li, The Cardigans off the top of my head...
Music festivals bring artists and people from all reaches of the world.
Your opinion seems to be formed by a lack of knowledge in the mediums you hold less interest in.
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Best way of putting it, really
Music is a hard to beat medium in terms of international appeal. Music in a language you don´t understand is easier to enjoy than games.
To your nobody listens to swedish music point -> ask metalfans if they know some swedish bands ;)
To your nobody listens to swedish music point -> ask metalfans if they know some swedish bands ;)
Well, we have movies for more than 100 years, games, only 40. And is more simple to produce a movie than a game. And yes, most countries has culturally relevant movies, but I think the point we discuss here is about "successful" games, not niche, Norway may have great movies, but few people watch, instead, most people watch Marvel movies, and that's the point, the big hits of movie industry are from US (Hollywood, streaming platforms).
-How is more games shifted to accommodate "western audience" what is a western audience ? US, France, Italy ? Because I see a lot of differences in this category, in US, call of duty is the king, in Europe, FIFA. God of war changed its perspective and narrative to please european audiences. Anyway, compared to movies, games are not US centered in the west market.
-Asia has a lot of events, but most are not for consoles games, that's why you think there's no events outside US, but yeah, is very US centered because its the single biggest market for console publishers. But we still have a lot of events in Europe, like the biggest one (gamescon). In Brazil, where I live, we have the BGS, a huge event with 100k+ people, with a lot of big publishers, I think that's not too bad.
-correction, Horizon Zero Dawn's Studio, Guerrila, is from Netherlands. But I think I see your point, Rockstar from Scotland make games about America culture, Kojima from Japan make games with an american culture focus, Ubisoft from Montreal make games with an american culture focus. I think that's a effect of the american culture dominance after WW2, a lot of people knows about US history and culture, so it's more easy to utilize american culture, and a lot of developers grow up with american culture influences.
-So no, gaming it's not Hugely US centered, maybe in consoles AAA games, but that's is just a fraction of the whole industry. Europe and Asia has a huge part of the gaming industry, much more than our western console bubble can see
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Not to mention plenty of metal bands like Amon Amarth, Bathory, Opeth, Tiamat. Sabaton.
I'd say this happens also because the USA is one of the largest markets, and thus, games often need to be marketeable in those regions and properly localized. Other media don't need per se to do that because they aren't selling themselves as products, specially when we talk about indepentent music and film. Western games are in the need of that. I can name a couple of chilean videogames made, and people here in Chile, even those who play videogames a lot, wouldn't know they are made here because they were made in english for american audiences (and even then, very niche audiences)
as people have said already, music is ridiculously more international both in countries where is produced and in cultural significance as people feel more confortable just making the sounds and rhythms popular in their own culture and manage to find success without catering to a specific audience (see bossa nova from brazil, k-pop from korea, mambo from cuba, etc)
now i can agree that games are made from all over the world, but the number of games that includes those cultural elements are super small and most prefer to tell a story from the perspective of a very limited number of countries to have a better chance to break through
just think about the last games that you have played, if it wasn't a fictional setting it probably took place in some place in the united states, england or japan, and i don't blame the developers as those are the biggest markets, but it really doesn't support the point that this is a uniquely international medium, even less so compared to music and movies
now i can agree that games are made from all over the world, but the number of games that includes those cultural elements are super small and most prefer to tell a story from the perspective of a very limited number of countries to have a better chance to break through
just think about the last games that you have played, if it wasn't a fictional setting it probably took place in some place in the united states, england or japan, and i don't blame the developers as those are the biggest markets, but it really doesn't support the point that this is a uniquely international medium, even less so compared to music and movies