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DICE and Valve don't crunch, so there are definitely solutions. The companies need to get pressured into implementing them.
I work in software development and the only crunch we have is "stay late this one night" every few months (often caused by mistake in management) so watching "happy crunchers" defend the practice as necessary and unavoidable makes me wonder what alternate reality I am lucky enough to live in.
Crunch sucks and happens across tons of industries, not just games.
I kind of dislike how this is sometimes narrowly viewed/portayed as a "gaming industry" issue around here though, rather than a basic worker's rights issue that spans across the economy/industries.
I mean this is a game forum, so I get that, but some people talk about it as if this is completely unheard of in other industries.
It's a huge problem that requires government intervention, imo. But if COVID wasn't enough to convince people we need a renewed push for worker's rights, I'm not very hopeful for the future :(
I guess just applying pressure to companies when we can is the best we can do for now.
I kind of dislike how this is sometimes narrowly viewed/portayed as a "gaming industry" issue around here though, rather than a basic worker's rights issue that spans across the economy/industries.
I mean this is a game forum, so I get that, but some people talk about it as if this is completely unheard of in other industries.
It's a huge problem that requires government intervention, imo. But if COVID wasn't enough to convince people we need a renewed push for worker's rights, I'm not very hopeful for the future :(
I guess just applying pressure to companies when we can is the best we can do for now.
Yup yup. Great post.
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Jason realized she was talking about him when she mentioned "clickbait" that came out during the previews. She accused him of timing his negative reports about CDPR with positive news about the game.
He understood she was talking about him, she understood she was talking about him, so that's what everyone is talking about in this thread.
Wow, hard to believe this came from the 2nd page of this thread based on how many of those workaholics voluntarily came into this thread defending crunch.
Valve doesn't even need to make games. They're like the GOOGLE of ehh maybe we will make this maybe not so I don't think they're a standard that can be emulated by others. Are you sure about DICE though I could have sworn they were famously known for hard crunch times.
Sakurai is not a Nintendo employee.
He has his own studio, which technically only includes him and his wife.
Didn't want to include Valve at first, since they are unlike most developers, but I still think other companies who make tons of money could orient themselves at their model.
I only could find this Era thread about DICE, but I am sure I red an article about them, but can't find it anymore.
You know, Jason isn't perfect, but he does great work—much needed work. The idea that hypemen and influencers, and game media outlets that literally do nothing but do poor rewrites of PR statements dunk on him and accuse him of toxicity is hilarious and pathetic, but completely expected.
It is impossible to take Parris and Liana seriously in their handwringing about "context" or Schreier being a "bully." In both cases, they are the one who initiated the argument, and then they are frustrated that Schreier has the bare nerve to respond to accusations that his reporting is misleading or controlled by an agenda (something Parris is continuing to repeat now).
Like, even setting aside whether you think Schreier produces valuable work and whether this story of CDPR crunch must be treated with a certain graviity, it is dishonest to frame this as Schreier stirring at random and tearing down his fellow journalists.
Like, even setting aside whether you think Schreier produces valuable work and whether this story of CDPR crunch must be treated with a certain graviity, it is dishonest to frame this as Schreier stirring at random and tearing down his fellow journalists.
I agree that is unlikely that Nintendo does not crunch. Hell, the pictures of Eiji Aonuma over his first couple of runs as director of a Zelda game show a progression similar to that meme of CDPR's director. But... Sakurai is a special case. He has been adamant for many years in maintaining his obsessive work style. He was offered a more relaxed position and workload by Nintendo, and he refused it.
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There absolutely is - but it's on the management side of things. Goals need to be achievable. Expectations need to be realistic. If management decides - 18 months into the development of a project that's supposed to launch in another 8 months - that they need to add multiplayer/co-op/change engines/add [FEATURE X] that's cool now...great, but that means the project deadline needs to be in 18 months, not 8 months.
They don't do that. They just turn 8 months into 18 months by working longer hours and adding extra days.
8 months of 5 days a week at 8 hours a day is 1,280 hours per person.
18 months of 5 days a week at 8 hours a day is 2,880 hours per person.
8 months of 6 days a week at 12 hours a day is 2,304 hours per person. Probably still short some dev time there... Well, no way around it. I guess 'the team' is going to have to do some seven-day weeks there in the last month or two, to really crunch to get it done. People expect that though so it's ok.
I mean they can also try adding people. After all, throwing people into a project that's already well over halfway done and trying to integrate them into the teams has never, historically speaking, caused any issues at all.
Or they could deadline properly, feature lock early, and put out the game they intend when intend...which is - on the whole - what Nintendo does. They don't feature chase after locking the game's design/feature goals.
All I'm saying is... shouting that someone has an agenda without defining what the agenda is, and doubling down on your PR-availability by ecstatically posting repeatedly a gaming chair and next gen console does not make you look unbiased.
It's much, much easier to bring suspicion over Shrier by saying: "Jason has an Agenda!" rather than saying "Jason has an agenda, which is to ensure that game developers are not unknowingly abused by higher ups".
Yes, Jason 100% has an agenda. Remind me again why that is a bad thing, Gameinformer?
Strict labour laws and the given right to organize, unionize and strike when neccessary. Look up the ITCU reports and rankings.
And speaking from experience, here in Germany (like in scandinavia) have strict laws that protect labour rights in all kinds of matters.
Both can be true. Many ppl at CD project red can be unhappy about Jason's story thinking its exaggerated, while the almost dozen of ppl he interviewed can still share their side of it. There are hundreds of people working there.
If the argument is that their doing crunch when they said they wouldn't then, there's no argument. Their obviously doing crunch. But, what is it that these people from cd project red are unhappy about in terms of Jason's reporting? assuming their normal employees outside of those that benefit from the crunch thats happening at the studio.
If the argument is that their doing crunch when they said they wouldn't then, there's no argument. Their obviously doing crunch. But, what is it that these people from cd project red are unhappy about in terms of Jason's reporting? assuming their normal employees outside of those that benefit from the crunch thats happening at the studio.
This is an excellent post and you can definitely see things being more manageable if strict guidelines were adhered to but how do you propose they stop the publisher from demanding it? So many entertainment industries have shifting goals I mean just watch any directors commentary on any movie ever and they are constantly evolving. I think you're right thought that if everyone could follow a production schedule like George Miller does it would be a much different world for everyone but this change can only come from inside the industry not from the outside. Unless we all voted with our wallets which isn't likely. I also think people give Nintendo credit when they don't deserve it. Just cause we have no information that they crunch doesn't mean they don't crunch. We don't know anything about their production schedules but we do know that as a Japanese company it would be within the realm of normalcy for them to have crunch like everyone else.
Maybe I'm young and naïve, or just a sociopathic workaholic, as I'm crunching this month, every saturday till the 31st included. Definitely not the best feeling in the world, but I'm trying to look at it positively - its more relaxed and calm, less people to bother you, and as with every other EU country - its completely voluntary (you can always decline and they can't really force you unless they want the working committee to tear them to pieces), its paid double (or depending on local regulations it can be 175% for weekends and up to 300% on holidays), its a 6 hours workday and you get additional dayoffs/paid leaves for after the chrunching ends. I for one, already have my 10 dayoffs approved for 19th of November, just in time for the PS5 launch(fingers crossed its gonna get delivered) and a spa-vacation(crossing the remaining fingers there wont be any more lockdowns).
So, unless i've missed some info, we dont really know how the CDPR employees are threated in terms of all the available compensations according to EU and local laws and regulations. If all the compensations are due, then I'd say to each, their own, but if it's more like the Nougaty Dogs situation with all the reports and sources, I'd be surprised if things dont escalate, especially after all the bad press around this.
As for the email posted on twitter, we had similar one when shit hit the fan mid march, for when they had to temporary cut some corners/bonuses/stuff, but thanked us for continued support and great work for OUR company. Yey Capitalism, I guess?
So, unless i've missed some info, we dont really know how the CDPR employees are threated in terms of all the available compensations according to EU and local laws and regulations. If all the compensations are due, then I'd say to each, their own, but if it's more like the Nougaty Dogs situation with all the reports and sources, I'd be surprised if things dont escalate, especially after all the bad press around this.
As for the email posted on twitter, we had similar one when shit hit the fan mid march, for when they had to temporary cut some corners/bonuses/stuff, but thanked us for continued support and great work for OUR company. Yey Capitalism, I guess?
Anyone attacking (edit: personally attacking) the Game Informer host is wrong but I really don't buy their claim that they weren't referring to Jason's report. Own up to what was going on, journalists are allowed to refute each other.
Also I blame CDPR for making public promises they couldn't keep. This has been an utter PR failure for them. I'm sure it won't actually affect any sales but it's just been a waste of time that could have all been avoided by trying to internally reduce crunch without making it a big sanctimonious publicity stunt. Instead it seems like they did the stunt without putting in enough work to reduce stress on employees.
Also I blame CDPR for making public promises they couldn't keep. This has been an utter PR failure for them. I'm sure it won't actually affect any sales but it's just been a waste of time that could have all been avoided by trying to internally reduce crunch without making it a big sanctimonious publicity stunt. Instead it seems like they did the stunt without putting in enough work to reduce stress on employees.
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It's clear she doesn't, and it's actually damaging the way these GI people talk.
I've written about games for over ten years, but I never ever would shill out like this. Crunch, and the terrible abuse of women, and people of color, in the games industry hasn't exactly been a secret. Defending it, and doubling down on your attacks on someone who brought stuff like this to light is not exactly painting themselves in the greatest of lights.
If anything, it's extremely offensive to those who have suffered under crunch, got medical issues, both physically and mentally, because of it. The burnout rate, depression, and more is at an alarmingly high rate within the industry. There's only so much you can take when your passion runs out, and I've seen it run out quickly with even people in their early 20s.
So yeah, no respect for the GI people, especially their personal attacks that were completely unwarranted from their side. What they're doing now is showing how petty and small they actually are.
PS: I am also not condoning personal attacks on them, like death threats. That's even pettier, and the ones doing such a thing are the lowliest of scum.
As a an artist in the industry, I'm fine with mandatory crunch. As long as it's 1. FOR A REASON 2. Not insanely long 3. Compensated in some way. If you fucked up with planning and cannot receive extra time and you need the benefit of extra crunch, that is understandable. But then pay up... I don't understand how companies do this stuff and don't pay. Why is that an industry standard thing to expect?
Of course they were referring to Jason's Report. That's why they are in the wrong. They tried to defend crunch and CDPR and are looking like fools for it.
I think they're referring to the GI employee saying she's received personal attacks on twitter
Let me clarify: I mean literally attacking, not criticizing. Just saw that she posted about people telling her to commit suicide. That is wrong. Reacting to her reporting is just fine.
No one can be mad at dogs. Unless they are not yours and barking at late hours.
Then I can be very mad at them!
Saying crunch is "optional" is like saying that if someone had a gun to your head and told you to punch someone, you had a choice. Yes in theory you could say no, but chances are if you do that you'll be killed so it's not exactly a fair playing ground. If you really wanted "optional" crunch you'd need some way of making it completely anonymous who is crunching and who isn't with any records being accessible only by automated systems for the purpose of pay. But that's next to impossible in most situations and not going to happen even in rare cases where such a set up could be feasibly achieved
Exquisitely put, Thanatos. I was going to write that, but since you saved me the trouble, I will write this instead:
FUCK CRUNCH AND FUCK ANY EXCUSES FOR IT.
He still uses shock and awe to get clicks. What he does is much appreciated and mandatory crunch needs to be eliminated. The letter is horrible as I've had that... (do it for the company blah blah) and I hated it. But Jason isn't above reproach. All these stories don't achieve anything though except the clicks he wants. We need a solution which won't come from what he does. I didn't read the story originally but could you let me know if he offers any solutions?
Anyone who thinks more work than what originally was planned for is 100% avoidable is an idealistic child.
They can't fix everything hell even laws can't, but it needs to happen.
He's a journalist tho? What he's doing is a crucial part of getting to a solution.
We know Sakurai does and he's in charge of one of their biggest games.
The idea that these two things are equivalent is some disingenuous bullshit.
A lot of people being exposed today.
I wonder if any of these people on Twitter will ever be able to explain what Jason's "agenda" is or if they can explain how he sent a "mob" after anyone at GI.
I wonder if any of these people on Twitter will ever be able to explain what Jason's "agenda" is or if they can explain how he sent a "mob" after anyone at GI.
Honestly, a few weeks of crunch after such a long multi-year project isn't too bad and I don't think many people would have an issue with that, no one wants all their hard work ruined by a few bugs that ruin the experience just because of a few weeks overtime right at the death. But it was clearly reported by Jason that it was much more than that and some people had been crunching for months if not longer, which is not acceptable, especially when the boss of the studio had made such a song and dance about not having crunch this time around. Delay the game if you can't make the release date without working people to the bone, it's not like they are a small developer with money flow issues or a publisher breathing down their necks.
Honestly, I would too. No one has time to argue with every pseudo intellectual goofball on twitter nor should they have to.
Jason asked devs about choosing between crunch or delay: ''It was never an option or question”
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