GameInformer claims Cyberpunk 2077 crunch story was blown out of proportion [up: refuted by Jason Schreier, see threadmarks]

[Uzupedro]

On the GameInformer show they addresed the Crunch subject at CD Projekt Red, and one of the hosts said that people at CD didn't agreed with the way the story was spread and they choose to do the overtime work.
Honestly I don't know what to think about this, it could be true, but this is a sensitive topic and I trust Jason's work so...I will wait for the next episodes.
The clip:


Full livestream(timestamped with the time where they start to talk about it):

 

[RedHeat]

Oof, seems like messed up story all around. I hope Jason comments on this.

 

[bluexy]

Uhh, choosing to crunch is still crunch and the argument that workers are doing crunch out of their own passion and excitement for their work is a big part of what enables crunch culture to continue. Of course you're going to hear that crunch is overblown, because only workers who are comfortable with crunch are freely able to speak about it aloud.

 

[lostconst]

I mean, if you typically ask someone:

A) delay a project, continue to get paid, see your families

Or

B) work extra long hours for no personal reward

It seems like they'd typically choose A

 

[Deleted member 4976]

Isn't choosing to do overtime work... part of crunch culture?

Like... what?

 

[STGHMAAV]

Which kind of support? "Supported crunch" or "if we don't support it we're going to be fired"¿

 

[tulpa]

gotta love all the "again i'd never support crunch, but..." and the "i'd never defend crunch, but..."

 

[Diarrhea Day-Lewis]

Uhh, choosing to crunch is still crunch and the argument that workers are doing crunch out of their own passion and excitement for their work is a big part of what enables crunch culture to continue. Of course you're going to hear that crunch is overblown, because only workers who are comfortable with crunch are freely able to speak about it aloud.

Click to shrink...

I agree and couldn't have said it better.

 

[Uzupedro]

Uhh, choosing to crunch is still crunch and the argument that workers are doing crunch out of their own passion and excitement for their work is a big part of what enables crunch culture to continue. Of course you're going to hear that crunch is overblown, because only workers who are comfortable with crunch are freely able to speak about it aloud.

Click to shrink...

Isn't choosing to do overtime work... part of crunch culture?

Like... what?

Click to shrink...

I don't disagree, just repeating what she said.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

ever heard of peer pressure

 

[Deleted member 50232]

Interesting that they considered delaying it again, I wonder what state the current build is like.

 

[platocplx]

Honestly I think its more in the middle. Some people still were upset with it and others were probably okay with it. This is typically how it goes usually in those kind of situations, But overall crunch is still bad And it does take a toll over time if its something that happens for months and months. It sounds like this was more of a typical project scenario where there was some crunch needed at the end to help finish the work and typically most people can be okay with a couple weeks of OT especially when it sounds like they are compensated.

 

[Yerffej]

What a nonsense story. I CHOSE to hit my thumb with a hammer.

 

[Domino]

The employees should never have been put into the position where they would feel the need to "choose crunch".

 

[TheChungusAmongUs]

I didn't read Jason's article because of the Bloomberg paywall, but I assume the difference is she talked to people who don't view it as crunch and Jason spoke to people who view it as harmful.

But peer pressure is a real thing that happens since people feel obligated to work in order to look good and not lose their jobs.

 

[Kalor]

Choosing to crunch is still crunch. I'm sure there were varying feeling within the company since it's not like everyone feels the same but doing it for the "passion" is still bad.

 

[Handsome James]

It's a complicated issue compounded by the fact that this is not a US-based country that Jason typically covers. Different culture around work, and more importantly different regulations.

Good that the employees get the extra compensation for their extra hours of work, though.

 

[Deleted member 13077]

Sounds like a second batch of the CDPR Kool Aid just got delivered.

Lots of influencers are going to be doing everything they can to play this shit down because they have a game to hype and click to get, so I'm not massively surprised we're seeing this now.

 

[Deleted member 50232]

Did Jason speak to multiple people at cd projekt for his article? I got the impression reading it that he only spoke to like one employee regarding the matter.

 

[AuthenticM]

Uhh, choosing to crunch is still crunch and the argument that workers are doing crunch out of their own passion and excitement for their work is a big part of what enables crunch culture to continue. Of course you're going to hear that crunch is overblown, because only workers who are comfortable with crunch are freely able to speak about it aloud.

Click to shrink...

seriously. That the devs agreed to this is irrelevant.

 

[VG Aficionado]

But they're getting paid for the extra hours, right?

I wish the best for the developers, but crunch in huge games such as these is simply inevitable. Can you say that a title of this caliber has never undergone crunch?

 

[UnderTheKillingSun]

Nevermind, I should read articles.

Hopefully Cyberpunk is worth all this mess.

 

[Deleted member 10629]

I remember Jason's article where he interviewed some Rockstar's employee...with an HR person on the room. I mean, what they're supposed to say?

 

[Ra]

Yes I'm sure there was no pressure from CDPR management to not delay the game.

"Polish people like to work hard" is not an excuse.

 

[ket]

Yeah I listened to this segment yesterday and it was odd. I get what she's saying but the idea that crunch is truly optional for employees seems unrealistic to me.

 

[Deleted member 5491]

You will always have people to be okay to do some overtime, ceuase it's still a passion project for them.
Doesn't mean, that they lacking in solidarity towards their coworkers, who can't do overtime for whatever reasons.
And shit like peer pressure exists, too just like Kanzodielocke said

 

[rras1994]

Isn't choosing to do overtime work... part of crunch culture?

Like... what?

Click to shrink...

Yes. And like years ago when there was another controversy about working conditions at CDPR and the long hours, they literally made a statement of you can't stand the height get out of the kitchen, we already know there are devs that defend the hell out of crunch, they are the workaholics that get promoted and keep the crunch culture while their colleagues get burned out and leave.

 

[Chuck795]

Uhh, choosing to crunch is still crunch and the argument that workers are doing crunch out of their own passion and excitement for their work is a big part of what enables crunch culture to continue. Of course you're going to hear that crunch is overblown, because only workers who are comfortable with crunch are freely able to speak about it aloud.

Click to shrink...

Okay, but they're also being paid this extra day and revenue splitting 10% of the profits. Quit it with this woe is me stuff. I'm from Poland, my whole family is, the average wage there is like $8,000/year while working 6-7 days a week.

These devs are millionaires compared to the average Polish person. They CHOSE to get paid these extra days to push the game out. If they didn't like it, they could vote another way, or leave! I'm a teacher and often work 50-60 hours a week and only get paid for 40 of them, that is life.

 

[Stormy_One_Kenobi]

If CDPR came to them with two options: 1) Delay the game again or 2) Work an extra day for 6 weeks and the devs all agreed to do the extra day to get the game out on time then more power to them. I am not going to tell someone else what is best for them. There is plenty of information out there and they know there own situations better than any one of us could ever know.

That being said, this all hinges on if it was an actual choice. If it was, then I am fine with it. If not, or it was an illusion of choice, then I am not. Simple as that.

 

[Leeway]

I don't doubt there's a culture within the company that are fine with it. But I guarantee not everyone there feels the same. Speaking from experience in an adjacent industry, it usually boils down to guilt and peer pressure and that should never be a thing.

 

[Micerider]

Well, of course, this is the point about crunch culture : it's accepted as something « we oughta do ». This is extremely weird take as even CDPR boss admited to it and said he never wanted to reach this situation.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

As long as their paid hourly and get incentives for working extra that are solely monetary then yeah there'd be a sizable group happy to do it. I work in an industry where 6 days at 10 hours each is not unheard of and fairly normal. The happiest people to work it are those that are paid hourly.

 

[YozoraXV]

I highly doubt you "choose" to work overtime.

 

[ZeoVGM]

What a mess of a story.

It seems like both Jason and CDPR aren't coming out of this completely clean.

Click to shrink...

Jason comes out of this completely clean.

 

[Fiery Phoenix]

Sounds completely believable to me. At some point someone has to make a decision, and it won't always be a pleasant one.

 

[MJForum Poster]

Okay, but they're also being paid this extra day

Click to shrink...

Not if they're salaried.

I'm guessing some type of bonus was dangled as a carrot to convince them to agree to 6 weeks of crunch

 

[Gentlemen]

"They chose to crunch"

"Cultural differences!"

These are the same tired arguments we already heard and don't warrant a demand for answers from Schreier. It's incredibly stupid to accuse him of being deliberately misleading/inflammatory.

She's on some bullshit here. CDPR isn't special for how it crunches vs other companies.

 

[Jamrock User]

I imagine if you said "I hate doing crunch and hate crunching"

You'd be fired on spot or giving treatment that made you want to be fired.

 

[Uzupedro]

 

[Xando]

Don't expect ERA to understand but as someone working in consulting this is pretty much the general attitude in huge multinational projects

 

[tulpa]

also just gonna say. this person in the video was defending crunch. straight up. do not say "i don't support crunch but..." and then proceed to repeatedly defend crunch

 

[Soriku]

ever heard of peer pressure

Click to shrink...

Or maybe some of them just want the overtime pay. It's not black and white.

 

[Cliff Steele]

Seems like normal european workculture. You see this stuff all the time in germany. If it's paid I see no problem.

 

[Amnixia]

I mean, if you typically ask someone:

A) delay a project, continue to get paid, see your families

Or

B) work extra long hours for no personal reward

It seems like they'd typically choose A

Click to shrink...

Crunch sucks and I admit I know nothing of Polish labour laws but how certain are we of "no personal reward"?

 

[Deleted member 5491]

Jason just reacted

 

[Deleted member 20964]

something blown out of proportion, on the Internet, who dares

 

[Xando]

I highly doubt you "choose" to work overtime.

Click to shrink...

I choose to work overtime pretty much every day

 

[metalslimer]

Okay, but they're also being paid this extra day and revenue splitting 10% of the profits. Quit it with this woe is me stuff. I'm from Poland, my whole family is, the average wage there is like $8,000/year while working 6-7 days a week.

These devs are millionaires compared to the average Polish person. They CHOSE to get paid these extra days to push the game out. If they didn't like it, they could vote another way, or leave! I'm a teacher and often work 50-60 hours a week and only get paid for 40 of them, that is life.

Click to shrink...

This is one salty ass post

 

[Zeneric]

Some people don't mind crunching 'cause they enjoy. Crunching is not always a bad thing.
Passion sees crunching as nothing.
Some modders crunch "endlessly" for free.

 

[RedHeat]