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MilesQ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,490
People leaping in to attack the credibility of the article need to understand something.

That the PS5 is being kept secret and will almost certainly have a successful launch barring another series of PS3-like launch mistakes does not mean that Sony's executive ranks aren't in a state of disarray.

A third-party experienced in handling games for previous console launches saying something is weird about the lead-up to the PS5 launch shouldn't just be dismissed out of hand, either. Again, this does not mean that Sony is doomed or the PS5 won't succeed. This isn't a Sony hit piece. What the anonymous source is saying is that Sony is being comparatively weird and the executive shakeup/in-fighting is a contributing factor to that.

There's a concerted effort amongst some of the more hardcore fans to try and dismiss this out of hand and it's frankly embarrassing the lengths they are going to do to it. We have some calling this fake news, y'all parroting that alt right shit quick when you don't like the reporting, huh?
 

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,637
Their only source in all of this is a third party dev's speculation based on lack of info on the PS5 which could just be Sony worried about leaks.

Playstation is going through some growing pains with its globalization push and growing network services but it's too early to start worrying about stuff as a consumer. Jim Ryan has been doing a great job and just today PS Now got a price drop and they're improving its value along with a marketing push.

Shu and Kodera are still around and all the people under them. First party devs are still going strong and Insomniac was just acquired. It remains to be seen how any of this will affect the Ps5 launch.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,708
So, the important question is: how does this affect the ps5 itself, first party exclusive development and third party support? Everything else beyond this is a no issue to me.
PS5 launch is cancelled and all 3rd party support went to Nintendo instead. Also PSNow is cancelled (hence price drop now for quick bucks before shutting it down). Shu is leaving in 3 days aswell. Playstation is soon only a music company focusing on making the next Walkman. It has wireless earbuds for 299$/piece.
Also PS1/2/3/4 stop existing.
 

Detective Pidgey

Alt Account
Banned
Jun 4, 2019
6,255
I see no reason to worry at all. Earlier this year we got the specs, well, not fully detailed specs but neither do we know those of Xbox yet. I'm sure all is fine.
 

Andromeda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,846
Don't already know that 3rd party devs got details on PS5 already?
Exactly. 3rd parties have specs and PS5 devkits already (not being a big PC tower). And we have feedback from real sources saying developers are pretty happy with PS5 devkits. That part sounds like total FUD and clickbait.

I don't know about the other part though: the restructuring stuff. I do find it strange that he leaves the day they aggressively expand PS Now with notably UC4 and God of War available on the service. Which kind of surprised me.
 

LavaBadger

Member
Nov 14, 2017
4,988
Really wish this thread could be a real conversation, rather than a bunch of, "Sony is doomed/in trouble/crashing any minute" or, "Everything here is totally made up," it would be great if the discussion was centered around how these kind of power struggles could actually affect the next gen, like say, who ends up getting the lead on handling marketing WW, or whether PS Now becomes a greater focus. Doesn't sound like much of this has any affect on the engineering leading into next gen.
 
Nov 11, 2017
2,744
There's a concerted effort amongst some of the more hardcore fans to try and dismiss this out of hand and it's frankly embarrassing the lengths they are going to do to it. We have some calling this fake news, y'all parroting that alt right shit quick when you don't like the reporting, huh?
It's unfortunate but in today's age its expected with things like hardcore fandom. People trying to discredit hard working authors without any collaborative efforts on there end is just sad. Like I said hardcore fandom over a piece of plastic will make you do it smh.
 

Deleted member 13155

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,604
I don't like Ryan but I think he's right with investing into Cloud. The PS Now reduction is a good move in my eyes. The service does look more compelling and I'm thinking of subbing, something I never bothered with. The competition is chasing this goose as well, after all. As for cross play, he was full of shit there.

Sony has the first party studios, they have Insomniac now as well. The PS5 likely won't be a 599 alien piece of hardware. The PS5 will be fine, and if they are investing more in cloud services with PS5, thats okay. I don't think we'll see a PS3 or X1 fuckup.
 
May 25, 2019
6,026
London
There's a concerted effort amongst some of the more hardcore fans to try and dismiss this out of hand and it's frankly embarrassing the lengths they are going to do to it. We have some calling this fake news, y'all parroting that alt right shit quick when you don't like the reporting, huh?

The definition of fake news is news that does not fit my narrative
 

Dale Copper

Member
Apr 12, 2018
22,031
Like I'm not really call the article fake at all, at most maybe just the 3rd part bit into question.
 

Detective Pidgey

Alt Account
Banned
Jun 4, 2019
6,255
It is however a little weird that Layden didn't post anything himself on Twitter. But, maybe give it a few days?
 

Niks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,299
Sony is doing good so people in charge want even more of the pie. Bring back Kaz please.
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,172
Saying a lot based on very little. Shouldn't be much longer until we get some actual facts on next gen though, so I think I'll just wait for that.



Betting this "source" is 100 percent made up as per media SOP.
I'd talk to you about how absurd this mindset is, but it'd take more than a day to make you understand the concept of "protecting your sources" in the context of journalism and I'd rather spend that time with better matters.

We've had insiders like Benji (and others iirc) saying that devs are more positive for this next transition compared to the previous one, feels weird to read that now someone would be worried so idk

From a technical standpoint it should be fine, the problem is the periphery information, details about corporate structure, how games will be sold digitally, how marketing will work with the new console, who to talk to and where, that are factors that would possibly be affected by internal conflict as globalization efforts take hold. You already see this in Japan's front with smaller developers not knowing exactly how to contact SIE or get back on them on the changes needed to release on the platform.
 
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TrojanBlade

Member
Oct 30, 2017
230
As long as they don't let go Mark Cerny and close down their 1st party studios (I am still pissed they shut down Evo), I am good.

Shawn was doing a good job so don't know why they let him go if true.
 

Syrenne

Producer of Manifold Garden
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
131
We've had insiders like Benji (and others iirc) saying that devs are more positive for this next transition compared to the previous one, feels weird to read that now someone would be worried so idk

Please don't read this as anything concrete and I'm trying to not let my position as a third party influence this:
Remember that in the last generation publishers and developers weren't convinced audiences wanted a new console generation, period. Production was ramping up at the end of 2011, early 2012 for the 2013 launch; Wii U was getting a tepid reception, mobile free to play was king, and production budgets were ballooning. It took the consoles launching to huge numbers to get games to ramp up, which is why this generation started with a ton of Definitive Editions.

How secure publishers and developers feel about audiences wanting a new generation, and how much information on and stability they sense regarding new hardware, aren't actually that intrinsically connected. Last gen transition they weren't sure there was going to be a market.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,122
Exactly. 3rd parties have specs and PS5 devkits already (not being a big PC tower). And we have feedback from real sources saying developers are pretty happy with PS5 devkits. That part sounds like total FUD and clickbait.

I don't know about the other part though: the restructuring stuff. I do find it strange that he leaves the day they aggressively expand PS Now with notably UC4 and God of War available on the service. Which kind of surprised me.


When it comes to PS NOW i did not expect them to rotate titles like UC4, GOW .
Still most people were expecting them put there big games on the service after a year .
So it make sense in what they are doing .
 

Yunyo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,824
The conglomeration of Sony global divisions was something well documented before, so I think the article definitely has elements of truth in it. Hope more info comes out soon.
 

thuway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,168
There's a concerted effort amongst some of the more hardcore fans to try and dismiss this out of hand and it's frankly embarrassing the lengths they are going to do to it. We have some calling this fake news, y'all parroting that alt right shit quick when you don't like the reporting, huh?
Miles what the hell? Alt Right? People are sceptical about how the article reached its conclusions. Your literally projecting onto people. That alt right shit is uncalled for
 

Naga

Alt account
Banned
Aug 29, 2019
7,850
We've had insiders like Benji (and others iirc) saying that devs are more positive for this next transition compared to the previous one, feels weird to read that now someone would be worried so idk
Devs are more positive for this transition because it'll be less painful in terms of development tools and architecture. Doesn't mean much more.
Isn't Benji someone that is positive about nearly everything anyway (as in not talking about negativity)?
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
Even so we are talking about a ton of heresay, explicit apples to orange comparisons, and a third party developer quote that talks about secrecy on a next gen console (which was leaked every which way to Sunday on the Pro, which makes sense to keep devs in the dark )

On top of that you have truly smart people like Michael Denny, Sid Shuman, Shuhei Yoshida, and even Andrew House in an advisory role.
I'm not saying that Imran, I find issue with the way the article reached its conclusions and supporting evidence. :)
You did a very, very poor job of that.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,122
Please don't read this as anything concrete and I'm trying to not let my position as a third party influence this:
Remember that in the last generation publishers and developers weren't convinced audiences wanted a new console generation, period. Production was ramping up at the end of 2011, early 2012 for the 2013 launch; Wii U was getting a tepid reception, mobile free to play was king, and production budgets were ballooning. It took the consoles launching to huge numbers to get games to ramp up, which is why this generation started with a ton of Definitive Editions.

How secure publishers and developers feel about audiences wanting a new generation, and how much information on and stability they sense regarding new hardware, aren't actually that intrinsically connected. Last gen transition they weren't sure there was going to be a market.

Yep even the consoles makers were not certain that consoles would sell.
The market showing that people were more than willing to buy new consoles.
 

Nightengale

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,708
Malaysia
Ryan is on record to be wanting more studio purchases. Layden is more for releasing multiplayer aspects of games on other platforms.

Do not read into executive strategy/direction or vision from snippets of their interviews. Just because one person said X, another said Y - doesn't mean either side contradicts each other or has different vision.

Here's the crux of it - all things said and done: Shawn Layden is one of six SVP-level executives that report to Jim Ryan/Kodera. Just because the other 5 SVPs have no Twitter or public-facing presence doesn't mean they are less influential than Shawn.
 

Ojli

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,652
Sweden
Layden might be a more sympathetic face for the company, but I guess Ryan is a better executive. Hope we get more info on this someday.
 

Falcon511

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,152
Exactly. 3rd parties have specs and PS5 devkits already (not being a big PC tower). And we have feedback from real sources saying developers are pretty happy with PS5 devkits. That part sounds like total FUD and clickbait.

I don't know about the other part though: the restructuring stuff. I do find it strange that he leaves the day they aggressively expand PS Now with notably UC4 and God of War available on the service. Which kind of surprised me.
Launching a new console requires more than dev kits. There is much more to it than specs are awesome. You didn't really read the quote from the 3rd party developer.
 

noyram23

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,372
Kinda hate that Sony doesn't ryhme with doom like Nintendo with Nintendoomed, we can't give a catchphrase
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,018
Florida
Hi. I'm the aforementioned author of said article in question and I'll echo this post.

This story wouldn't fly without the due diligence that was needed to make sure everything was correct and on point. As Imran alluded to in his post, we used certain info in the article on background.

We care too much about the reporting we do at GameDaily to try and not skip any corners on anything we do, but especially this. So trust me when I say, and I promise you this on my own mother's grave, a majority of what is said in my report comes with meaning and doesn't come from a place of conjecture and speculation.

Thanks gang. :)

Johnny

Appreciate it. Thanks for clarifying for some with their head in the sand.
 

Theswweet

RPG Site
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,409
California
Parts of the article certainly line up with things that I've heard about from multiple sources, so I'm hesitant to dismiss it. Can't really say more than that, and I want to stress that this is myself talking here - not any outlet I write for.

Edit: Something to note, is that there's an extraordinary amount of sensitive information about the situation, so it shouldn't come at any surprise that any such articles on it would err on the side of caution.
 

Detective

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,853
So that's why we ain't got any leaks. "Secrecy "

Restructuring in companies are common and I don't think this will effect the PS5.
 

RoboPlato

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,808
Hasn't a lot of the major crossplay progress happened since Ryan took over and wasn't Layden in charge of Sony's studios for the past couple year, not the PlayStation division? Article seems pretty vague and based mostly on conjecture.
 

thuway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,168
Hi. I'm the aforementioned author of said article in question and I'll echo this post.

This story wouldn't fly without the due diligence that was needed to make sure everything was correct and on point. As Imran alluded to in his post, we used certain info in the article on background.

We care too much about the reporting we do at GameDaily to try and not skip any corners on anything we do, but especially this. So trust me when I say, and I promise you this on my own mother's grave, a majority of what is said in my report comes with meaning and doesn't come from a place of conjecture and speculation.

Thanks gang. :)

Johnny
Thanks for your insight!
 

Kyrios

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,637
Parts of the article certainly line up with things that I've heard about from multiple sources, so I'm hesitant to dismiss it. Can't really say more than that, and I want to stress that this is myself talking here - not any outlet I write for.

Edit: Something to note, is that there's an extraordinary amount of sensitive information about the situation, so it shouldn't come at any surprise that any such articles on it would err on the side of caution.

About the internal confusion at Sony right now or dev worry? If you can't answer that that's cool.
 

CelestialAtom

Mambo Number PS5
Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,042
Cerny doesn't work for Sony. He works in a contracted role if I'm not mistaken. He talked about how he dislikes corporate structure and the doldrums of presentations to the boards.

Ahh ok. I didn't know that. Still, I hope they do everything they can to keep him coming back, as he is a wizard when it comes to hardware development And understanding the needs of the game development community.
 

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,369
"One point where Layden and Ryan clashed on was cross-platform services, specifically cross-play. In an interview with Eurogamer from 2017, Ryan defended Sony's then-stance of not allowing cross-play, specifically Minecraft on PlayStation 4, saying the platform has "got to be mindful of our responsibility to our install base. Exposing what in many cases are children to external influences we have no ability to manage or look after, it's something we have to think about very carefully.""

Lmao, it was Jim Ryan who said that shit?