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Cyclonesweep

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
7,690
Legally speaking you never own the game regardless. The point was that both services maintain a way to revert access to your games.
I think legally they are very different things.

If I buy software I should have complete access to all the files, as you do. When you have Gamespass you are paying for access to them, so I am fine with them restricting access to the files and The DRM.
 

Tangyn

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,281
Yep it's a problem now for sure but what's even weirder is I actually trust that they will sort it at some point in the future.

Never thought I'd say that.....
 

Cyclonesweep

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
7,690
IIRC games have their own gamepass folder you can access rather than the deeper game files, generally there's some modding stuff you can do through that.

Given the nature of gamepass it makes sense that mods and access to the files aren't completely standard.

The games are rented to you for a set monthly fee, you don't own them or the files.
If you want to own the game then buy it.
Yep. That's my thoughts entirely too.
 

upinsmoke

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,566
I really hope they give us access. Not being able to edit data on football manager is a really scummy practice
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,260
New York
Obviously niche case, but I recently stumbled across this attempting to mod the W10 store version of the Resident Evil 7 .exe to add ultrawide support. Dug through folder/file permissions unsuccessfully. It's a bummer, but I don't even remember buying this or it must be crossbuy with X1.
 

BoxManLocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
France
Oh I was wondering why I couldn't access files in Gears or Forza to change the language (couldn't even find the .ini)

Changing timezones did the trick but yeah that stuff is needlessly annoying
 

Grimminski

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,136
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Yeah, I'd of liked to be able to play Rage 2, but it will not boot on a 2c/4t CPU (despite Just Cause 4 using the same engine and working fine). The Steam and Bethnet versions can be fixed with a replacement exe.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
I think legally they are very different things.

If I buy software I should have complete access to all the files, as you do. When you have Gamespass you are paying for access to them, so I am fine with them restricting access to the files and The DRM.
I suggest you read the licenses for literally any online game store. For a digital purchase, you're buying an unlimited license to access the game rather than a time limited one for a subscription. In either case you don't actually "own" the files and your ability to mod the game is entirely down to technical limitations.
 

Cyclonesweep

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
7,690
I suggest you read the licenses for literally any online game store. For a digital purchase, you're buying an unlimited license to access the game rather than a time limited one for a subscription. In either case you don't actually "own" the files and your ability to mod the game is entirely down to technical limitations.
Okay. You have an unlimited license and in turn are given access to the game files. Gamespass gives you a limited license that expires so they choose not to give you access to the game files.

I don't see an issue

You want access to the game files, then friggen buy the game.
 

Voodoopeople

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,859
It's not an issue, if you want to mod shit, buy the game.

Of course this subscription service comes with some kind of drm, what are you thinking op?

Weird thread.

Only not being able to secure save files would be an issue, if it doesn't upload all saves anyway, don't know how that works on the windows store.

This. You don't own it.

Do people try building an extension on a house they only rent?
 

MrBob

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,670
Yup I agree, it's why I view PC gamepass as a great rental service to try out games but not one I'll use seriously to buy games. I'll get them elsewhere until Ms fixes this issue.
 

BeI

Member
Dec 9, 2017
5,983
All I know is that I'm stuck using whichever drive I originally selected to install game pass games on, and it won't let me use my 6TB HDD because it gives an error everytime I try to install a game anywhere else.
 
Nov 9, 2017
3,777
This makes sense for Microsoft. They don't want you modding games for free and they want to be able to use the Windows operating system itself as a defense against pirating. Eventually they will claim they can prevent pirating games by using restrictions on Windows files from their store and sell themselves as the only marketplace which can truly stop pirating.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
Okay. You have an unlimited license and in turn are given access to the game files. Gamespass gives you a limited license that expires so they choose not to give you access to the game files.

I don't see an issue

You want access to the game files, then friggen buy the game.
The issue is that not having access to file more modding makes games literally unplayable for people, subscription or not. It's a huge benefit of gaming on PC.
 

nullref

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,055
Is this a DRM thing, or more a general system integrity and security thing? (It's probably some of both.) I know it flies in the face of years of tradition in PC gaming, and there are definite downsides to this approach, and the implementation of this in Windows could certainly be better—but preventing users from modifying application files is both good for reliability (users can't break things as easily), and good for security (making it harder for a user to modify application files also makes it harder for malicious code acting as that user to modify application files).

Ideally, applications can support modding and lower-level configuration overrides (e.g. .ini files in C:\Users\<username>\AppData, etc.) through supported hooks/mechanisms involving files in the user directory rather than direct modification of the application package. (This is also where save files, user config settings, etc. should be stored—the ideal is a clean separation between user files and system/application files.) Of course, this requires the application developer to build this support in the first place, which they often won't for cost-benefit reasons. And even if they do build such support, it disallows types of mods that may go beyond what was anticipated by the developer. So there are certainly downsides to locking down the application files in this manner. But, there's a rationale as well that can be acknowledged.
 
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Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,192
The worst issue is the one I had with Gears 5 where the download became corrupted and it wouldn't allow me to delete the data, so it took up 70GB on my hard drive that I had no way to delete.
 

ThreepQuest64

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
5,735
Germany
I'm not sure if the copy protection reason is valid. For example you can have a Steam game installed on your machine but still have the digital rights revoked (due to revoked family sharing, refund, etc.) so you can't play the game despite having access to the files. So Xbox App/MS Store could do the same, right? Subscription not active and you can't hit that play button. Of course then there had to be a daily check if you still have the rights to launch the game.

How does it work with Steam, when you open a refund ticket for a game and then immediately go into offline mode and stay offline? Could you still play the game even after it got refunded?
 

Deleted member 18951

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,531
You dont actually own the game though, if you want to mod their games buy them on Steam and if you want the all you can eat subscription but you cant mod the game you subscribe to Game Pass. At least that's what I though the option they are pushing is?
 

Fatoy

Member
Mar 13, 2019
7,229
The bigger issue for me is that the Game Pass launcher can't patch my games. I get an error every time there's an update to anything I have installed, and I have to cancel the update (which uninstalls the game) and then reinstall it.

Not a big deal for a smaller game, but I've redownloaded all 70+GB of Gears 5 four times now.
 

Axe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,761
United Kingdom
The latest insider builds for Windows 10 has a "ModifiableWindowsApps" folder that is apparently going to be used to project the installation directories for UWP games so people can mod them.

I agree it's frustrating though. OP is right about the WindowsApps folder having special protection not exposed in the UI. I don't know anyone who has tinkered with its permissions without breaking all sorts of things.
 

Nzyme32

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,245
Still can't use the controllers and applications I want with many of the gamepass apps - which are still UWP.

I'm fine using work around at the current price, but later I will drop the pass if it doesn't change
 

Dogui

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,813
Brazil
Tried to play Shenmue I + II on pc game pass but the launcher where you choose the game was bugged and didn't worked. What's worse? The separated .exe from each game can easily be seen in the games folders, but their access are negated lol

It's just impossible to get permission to access the folders unless you really try to mess with the system and possibly bricking it. Basically every other folder in the system can be acessed with permissions, which makes the thing even weirder.

Along with that, some games that would work in any other store is simply not on game pass due to some registration permission bug. The Messenger being one example, as it just get stuck in the splash screen waiting for the xbox permission window forever. I really wanted to play The Messenger on game pass and couldn't (luckily, it got to be a free epic game 2 months after).

In general you are right, but to be fair this is not an across the board thing. The Outer Worlds' .ini files were exposed to the user and you could absolutely modify certain UE4 parameters to improve the graphics beyond what was available in the in-game settings menu. But yes, as I said in general you are right, these files are still much too locked down

Some games have its files exposed, others hidden, it's not hard to just show hidden archives anyway, but they still can't be edited. You sure this .ini file can be executed and edited?
 

Deleted member 15440

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,191
anyone saying that it's OK because game pass is a rental needs to understand that the same restrictions apply to games permanently purchased through the microsoft store
 

Kirksplosion

Member
Aug 21, 2018
2,465
As someone who hasn't cared to mod a PC game in many years, I love my GamePass on PC.

But sorry to hear it's so restrictive for you mod peeps.
 

Gush

Member
Nov 17, 2017
2,096
The bigger issue for me is that the Game Pass launcher can't patch my games. I get an error every time there's an update to anything I have installed, and I have to cancel the update (which uninstalls the game) and then reinstall it.

This happened to me a couple times too. Once with Gears 5 and another time with it wiping out my near-complete save for Creature in the Well.

Really frustrating stuff.
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
It's a gigantic pain in the ass for a lot of things like access to files, using non xinput controllers, etc.

But I did end up with like a sub until April via cheap deals and some taco bell, so for me I'll play Gears 5, Outer Wilds, and some indies, but will likely wash my hands of it once they stop with the insane deals.
 

DocH1X1

Banned
Apr 16, 2019
1,133
It's not an issue, if you want to mod shit, buy the game.

Of course this subscription service comes with some kind of drm, what are you thinking op?

Weird thread.

Only not being able to secure save files would be an issue, if it doesn't upload all saves anyway, don't know how that works on the windows store.
Yeah this thread seems wierd, you dont own the game, if you wanna mod and mess with all the files then buy the game. This is a bit of cake and eat it too.
 

Dogui

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,813
Brazil
Given that you are temporarily signing up for access to the game through a subscription and not actually buying the game, I have no problem with tighter restrictions.

That said, I would of course, prefer less DRM, but it does seem kind of necessary given the business model.
This. You don't own it.

Do people try building an extension on a house they only rent?
Then buy the games you want to mod?

There's like 3 or 4 posts in the thread saying this already: This is not a game pass thing. This happens to any game purchased on microsoft store.

Also, it's not just actual modding. Sometimes you need to access the folders for troubleshooting or using controller support stuff. Some games are unplayable without folders access. Shenmue 1+2 was unplayable for me.

So just because it's game pass, i'm not entitled to fucking play the games offered on game pass?
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
Yeah this thread seems wierd, you dont own the game, if you wanna mod and mess with all the files then buy the game. This is a bit of cake and eat it too.

You realize that even if you buy it you still can't mod it right? The only solution is to buy it on a different store.
 

SunBroDave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,160
Some games have its files exposed, others hidden, it's not hard to just show hidden archives anyway, but they still can't be edited. You sure this .ini file can be executed and edited?
Yes, I did it when I played the game on Gamepass PC, like many others here. Check the PC Performance thread
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
Exactly so buy them on another store. I still dont get this is a knock on game pass as a subscription service?

Did you read anything past the title of the thread? The OP is clearly talking about the entire MS ecosystem.

Also, you can't buy some of these games on another store.
 

XDevil666

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,985
As time goes on they will tweak, gotta protect and build trust with the publishers games while they rent them out.
Otherwise they are open to piracy and that's a problem for gamepass
 

Deleted member 15440

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,191
As time goes on they will tweak, gotta protect and build trust with the publishers games while they rent them out.
Otherwise they are open to piracy and that's a problem for gamepass
the microsoft store restrictions aren't DRM and there were pirated versions available even when they were more locked down than they are now
 

FenninRo

alt account
Banned
Nov 13, 2019
84
It's not an issue, if you want to mod shit, buy the game.

Of course this subscription service comes with some kind of drm, what are you thinking op?

Weird thread.

Only not being able to secure save files would be an issue, if it doesn't upload all saves anyway, don't know how that works on the windows store.

Yeah, agreed on this one. Game Pass is great, but you need to take it for what it is.
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
As time goes on they will tweak, gotta protect and build trust with the publishers games while they rent them out.
Otherwise they are open to piracy and that's a problem for gamepass

100 percent of the third party games on Game Pass were already pirateable before Game Pass.