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Oct 25, 2017
9,053
That they did end up going this route really makes me wish Barristan hadn't been sidelined. I guess Jon is pretty much taking the role in it I was expecting Selmy to though.

Of all of the book differences, I'm most curious to see how Selmy ends up. Is he just going to go down as a jobber early in the books?

I totally suspect Dany to lose her advisers one by one there, but I don't know if Selmy is going to go so quickly. He was one of my favorite characters in both book and TV.
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,050
Count me in the "GRRM is going to see how ending is received before writing last book" crowd.

He has said, multiple times, that a series is ultimately judged on how it wraps up. And it's been 8 fucking years since he started the penultimate book- Who's to say whatever version of the story he gave to D&D is going to look the same by the time he finishes the last book?
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
The dude also said he hasn't read the script for the last season. So...

Also, the broad strokes might be the same but the context matters. An extreme example:
In the longer interview GRRM says he spent literally days in story meetings with D&D, detailing the end of the story......it's not like they're just making everything up from a brief summary., though. I mean, nobody knows how the books will turn out, but if they are wildly different it is probably because GRRM deviates from the outline he gave to the showrunners. Like yeah, maybe there's a different or better reason for Dany to go apeshit on King's Landing......but I doubt it's going to be something out of left field.
 

Tuck

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,576
I'm going to say this and get absolutely fucking destroyed but I don't care:

-This is exactly in line with how the books will end
-The ending was always going to piss people off because it's making a very pointed message on the way we fantacize war and violence and only see the best in characters who are presented to us as 'heroes.'
-I think a lot of people fundamentally misunderstand Game of Thrones.

There are certainly issues with this season. But people saying there are hard character turns (Dany, Arya) or that Jaime's end didn't fit his character willfully ignored important facets if these characters.[/QUOTE]
Think you need to back this one up a bit.

1, seems like youre ignoring a lot of character development in the books that wasnt in the show (particularily re: jamie)
2, you appear to be claiming that GoT is not actually about a bunch of self-righteous lords fighting over a silly chair while the real existential danger brews up north.

Yes, GRRM likes being subversive but he also hints at the subversions long before they happen.
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
She hasn't.

Did you not know what the word "foreshadow" means?

She snapped. She went mad today. We got hints of her madness previously, but she always managed to reign it in, until today

Yeah and people don't buy the show's rationale for the "snap" to happen as protrayed by the TV show.

It had to happen and it had to happen fast because D&D need to move on to do Star Wars. That's the real reason.
 

VaporSnake

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,603
..... But like, Dany is still obviously a hero in the whole.

She just saved the entire world by winning a battle.

You undermine the idea that painting people as heroes for winning battles is a bad idea when you save the world by winning a battle.

Painting people as heroes for winning battles is a bad idea? That's your takeaway? That's what you think the point is? Mmmmm....okay then.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,323
What? Everybody's sneaking around behind my back because they think I'm gonna kill a bunch of innocent people? Well, I'll show them by not only killing them, but all those innocent people as well.


The scene with Jon kind of cemented it. If she can't rule through love she'll rule through fear. I don't blame Jon for that though.
 

Masoyama

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,648
Everything displayed so far fits the themes of the books to a T, it absolutely fits the series. It's certainly rushed and compressed into oblivion, no question there but to say it doesn't fit the series only shows that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of a song of ice and fire.

It doesn't. The ending fits a caricature version of the universe that has been eroded by shitty interpretation. All of the nuance has been removed in favor of a frat bro, lowest common denominator, infantilized reading of the material. This feels worse than a "for dummies" understanding of what made the universe come alive.
 

SturokBGD

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,414
Ontario
That was the greatest 80 minutes there have ever been. Better than Twin Peaks S3E8. I'm so glad I finally got in to this show and was able to catch up to watching it live. What a rush!
 
Dec 12, 2017
4,652
My theory?? Dany didn't give a fuck about those people she saved. She just wanted to be liked. She wanted power. The only reason she killed any slavers in the first place was to get a free army.
 

Spartancarver

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,453
D6aqlDuXsAMF5Jw.jpg

"Character assassintation!"
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
They didn't though. Hence why I and many other's weren't all that surprised when she snapped. They've been forecasting this shit for a while now.

I've written countless times about Danny going Mad Queen.

Foreshadowing is a hint of events to come.

Having Danny snap like a twig between two episodes is not how you build up foreshadowing, which in this case was one or two singular events that gave glimpses into her potential fall from grace.

There was no organic growth for her to actually develop into this version of herself that a lot of us saw coming for years now. The main growth into her sudden shift of character was between two scenes and killing off another pivotal character because the writers wrote him into a corner.
 

Greg NYC3

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,467
Miami
A heel turn to keep the Throne from Jon made perfect sense. A heel turn to randomly decide to burn the fucking city down didn't make any sense at all.
This is pretty much where I am. I could see her losing her shit and destroying the Red Keep but what exactly was the point of burning down the entire city you just spent 8 seasons trying to live in?
 

DevilMayGuy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,573
Texas
She hasn't.

Did you not know what the word "foreshadow" means?

She snapped. She went mad today. We got hints of her madness previously, but she always managed to reign it in, until today
Yeah, we got hints of we madness literally in the last two episodes, that's it. This season they decided "she's the mad queen, y'all" so they started going heavy as fuck with foreshadowing an event that erases the entire point of her 7 season long journey.

The writers are fucking hacks. Fuck D&D and their lazy shit fanservice
 

Moara

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,832
This episode had plenty of problems but the direction Dany's character went was not one of them.
 

TheLucasLite

Member
Aug 27, 2018
1,446
White Walkers winning fits the series then.

Just not sure how to square the themes of these people being bad with... These people saving the world a week ago.
People who fancy themselves heroes based on divine right, and only execute "altruism" on their terms are not actually heroes. This is why Jon has always made more sense as the hero than Dany because he grew up with zero expectation.
 

octopedes

Member
Feb 3, 2018
813
When she was a baby, she kept getting disturbed by the ringing of bells

Ever since then, she's harbored a huge grudge against the sound of bells ringing

Think Broly from Dragonball, but with bells instead of Goku

/s

Hahaha, now that would be great.

"But that's really dumb... But, but she's so cool! But that's SO DUMB!"
 

metalslimer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,558
I cant even begin to describe the character assassination they committed on jaime tonight


Oh and one more thing the fact that they didnt show Daenerys while she was murdering all those people feels like a cop out.
 

Spartancarver

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,453
I've written countless times about Danny going Mad Queen.

Foreshadowing is a hint of events to come.

Having Danny snap like a twig between two episodes is not how you build up foreshadowing, which in this case was one or two singular events that gave glimpses into her potential fall from grace.

There was no organic growth for her to actually develop into this version of herself that a lot of us saw coming for years now. The main growth into her sudden shift of character was between two scenes and killing off another pivotal character because the writers wrote him into a corner.

Hence why I earlier posted that the books will probably do a better job of fleshing out her transition to madness and get her there in a less erratic and more developed sense, but when you have 6 episodes to work with, this is what it looks like unfortunately.
 

Waxy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
440
Also what was the reason for the wildfire, was that supposed to be the trap?
Not sure if this has been answered yet, still going through the thread and reactions, but I saw it as the remaining wildfire that the Mad King had planted around King's Landing during Roberts Rebellion going off thanks to Drogon.
 

Bartalome

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
144
In the longer interview GRRM says he spent literally days in story meetings with D&D, detailing the end of the story......it's not like they're just making everything up from a brief summary., though. I mean, nobody knows how the books will turn out, but if they are wildly different it is probably because GRRM deviates from the outline he gave to the showrunners. Like yeah, maybe there's a different or better reason for Dany to go apeshit on King's Landing......but I doubt it's going to be something out of left field.

There are pretty major plotlines in the books that never made it into the show....
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
Harrenhal is barely standing. Balerion melted the stone and destroyed the place.

From the Wiki
That's kind of what I mean though. The Harrenhall towers were melted in an extended dragon siege. It took a concerted, extended effort to lay waste.

In this episode everything the dragon breathed on was ripped apart like Lego blocks in a hurricane. Dany blasts the Red Keep to pieces in what seems like a matter of minutes.
 

Orion

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,766
The worst thing is that this'll make every Dany scene retroactively depressing for me on rewatch. Truly a hollow victory for those of us who wanted to see her be Queen. :(

Gotta say though, even though I hate that she'll be known as the Mad Queen now and literally everyone will be gunning for her, I do kinda like how Aerys' threat to burn them all came back to haunt King's Landing. Even took out his killer, Jaime. Mad King got his revenge in the end. Full circle.
 

HotHamBoy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,423
The real problem of this episode are the ballistae!
They were able to kill a dragon, to land THREE shots, and in this episode they were suddenly incapable of landing just a single shot! What is this?!
That pissed me off.

Hawkeyes when the show wants them to be
Stormtroopers when it doesn't

Almost as bad as just having Uncle Euron fight and die by Jamie because reasons
 

lmcfigs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,091
She hasn't.

Did you not know what the word "foreshadow" means?

She snapped. She went mad today. We got hints of her madness previously, but she always managed to reign it in, until today
I also agree here. I don't know if we've ever seen Dany kill people who didn't deserve it. It's possible that I just don't remember. But that would be foreshadowing.
 
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
People who fancy themselves heroes based on divine right, and only execute "altruism" on their terms are not actually heroes. This is why Jon has always made more sense as the hero than Dany because he grew up with zero expectation.

Dany was a severe abuse victim and spends the first several episodes of the series getting raped, I'm not sure she grew up with expectations.

Like the first few episodes are very heavy on her getting raped over and over again.

It's pretty gross.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
D&D talking about the Jon not fucking scene "Jon snow is someone she's fallen in love with and as far as she's concerned, by this point, she knows Jon has betrayed her by telling people about his true identity, and also the fact he's unable to return her affections at this point. I think that when she says, "let it be fear" she's resigning herself to the fact that she may have to get things done in a way that isn't pleasant and she may have to get things done in a way that is horrible to lots of people... (talk about brother) life if any of these things had happened in any different way, I don't think we'd be seeing this side of her."

I dunno, I'm pretty sure that's implying that Jon not fucking her was the final straw. Lol, crazy bitch needs to get laid, amirite?
 
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