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karmaforgotme

Member
Oct 27, 2017
893
Knoxville, TN
This is a bad show. It wasn't always, but it has become one, especially in these final couple seasons.

Yet last week was one of the top 5 episodes of the series. The show has been uneven for awhile and it can be bad at times, but I still find it overall enjoyable. So I disagree that it is bad show, but I also disagree that it is prestige television (it was the first 3 seasons, just like it was prestige in the first 3 books).
 

exodus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,944
Visually, it's clear this was an episode that didn't consider horrible cable/streaming compression. I'm sure it will look phenomenal on Blu-Ray.
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,595
Because he wasn't stabbed with Dragonglass. He was stabbed with Valyrian Steel.
The lore has always been a bit vague on what makes Valyrian Steel special, but the main theory spoken about in the lore is the fact that Valyrian Steel is made with Dragonfire and Blood Magic. That's why the Night King being invulnerable to Dragonfire, yet dying instantly to a Valyrian Steel blade is kinda weird. Though I guess technically it could be the Blood Magic that did it.
 

Jmdajr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,534
Watched this on an LG OLED C8 and had absolutely zero issues deciphering what was happening on screen. There were certainly some scenes where the muddied visibility was intentional, you can even see this as characters were constantly wiping their faces and eyes during the battle. I think it managed to stay legible despite being intentionally claustrophobic.
I have my TV calibrated pretty good. Everything looked fine to me. Luckily the stream wasn't shit either.
 

Crocks

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
963
The closure to Jon's story is the inevitable fight he will have over the Iron Throne with both Dany and Cersei. Now that the WW threat is gone and his true lineage is known, he is just another player in the game.
I feel like I don't care any more, though. The interesting aspect about all that was all the back-room subterfuge, the lies and pretending, the secret alliances and "little birds" - Can you see any of that happening now, between Cersei, Dany and Jon?
 

mikehaggar

Developer at Pixel Arc Studios
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
1,379
Harrisburg, Pa
That ending was so well-executed. The music is incredible. The slow mo shots of the Night King walking towards Bran had my mind racing... what's going to happen when he reaches Bran? Will he kill him? Will it be revealed they have a deeper connection? And the misdirection of the cuts to Jon Snow, pinned down by the dragon, were really the icing on the cake. I never saw it coming. My jaw hit the floor when Arya killed the Night King. Regardless of how you actually feel about it from a narrative standpoint, then entire sequence was flawlessly executed. Really awesome stuff.

I have zero issues with Arya being the one to kill the Night King. Considering who she is and what she's been through I think the story has "earned" her ability to get the drop on the Night King like she did. However, I do hope we learn more about who the Night King is/was, who Bran is, and their connection. At least some type of exposition dump from Bran afterwards. It would be a huge oversight not to explain things more.
 

itchi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,287
Is there any hope for a higher quality release of this eventually? The compression artifacts are really annoying and sometimes mainly around the fog the sky looks like a badly compressed .gif.
 

Kiraly

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,848
Absurdly amazing episode but absolutely exhausting. I thank my stars I am not as jaded as some of you lot; it must be unbearable.

I agree. Sure I do not agree with a LOT of the choices the creators made in regard to the plot but fuck it man, audiovisually the episode was spectacular and it was satisfying enough. Some of the comments you read on the internet (I've only read the discussion threads on Reddit) are crass and act as if their eight year investment have been retroactively ruined. Could it have been better? Probably, tailored specifically to my preferences. Did they satisfy a wide enough audience? Probably, if the reactions on social media are anything to go by.

People have to understand millions of people watch the series and all have different preferences on how the plot should be resolved. And people should also understand the series has branched off from the books a long time ago and thus the creators will obviously have a different vision than the author and no source material to stay true to.
 

commish

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,274
It suckes for the audience for sure. From a military perspective, the WW played it smart. They kept the generals back by the treeline like we saw early and played it safe. Kind of lame...but makes sense.

This episode threw military tactics out the window from the start. Who sends all of your cavalry into a charge at night when you can't even see your enemy?!
 

fanboi

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,702
Sweden
I agree. Sure I do not agree with a LOT of the choices the creators made in regard to the plot but fuck it man, audiovisually the episode was spectacular and it was satisfying enough. Some of the comments you read on the internet (I've only read the discussion threads on Reddit) are crass and act as if their eight year investment have been retroactively ruined. Could it have been better? Probably, tailored specifically to my preferences. Did they satisfy a wide enough audience? Probably, if the reactions on social media are anything to go by.

People have to understand millions of people watch the series and all have different preferences on how the plot should be resolved. And people should also understand the series has branched off from the books a long time ago and thus the creators will obviously have a different vision than the author and no source material to stay true to.

100% agree on this.

There where so many shots in this episode that was epic and will be remembered for a long time.
 

AnansiThePersona

Started a revolution but the mic was unplugged
Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,682
If Podrick survived and almost the entire Dothraki army didn't, I will be even more disappointed than I already am.
 

Umbrella Carp

Banned
Jan 16, 2019
3,265
I feel like I don't care any more, though. The interesting aspect about all that was all the back-room subterfuge, the lies and pretending, the secret alliances and "little birds" - Can you see any of that happening now, between Cersei, Dany and Jon?

For a couple of episodes maybe. The forces in the North need to recover and rally, not to mention the march south, while Cersei still has Euron slinking around up to no good. We will see a bit of subterfuge and politics I think, but not as in depth as the first 3 seasons.
 

Severance

Member
Oct 27, 2017
399
Bran said that what happened is the night king always comes out to kill three eyed ravens. The amount of confidence he exudes makes it feel even more clear he's done this many times before. During the long night, no one successfully took him or his guards by surprise. Its a ritualistic killing for him, a pattern hes fallen into, and this time someone was there to disrupt it. Makes sense to me

I don't think that's all he wants though because Bran also mentioned that the Night King wants an eternal night. So if that's true I doubt he would kill the 3ER and bail? It's all just so anticlimactic. Bran speaks one sentence and resolves years of build up. We haven't even gotten so much as a Bran vision of the past. It just feels like pieces are missing and we won't hear from it again. I hope I'm wrong
 

Amnixia

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Jan 25, 2018
10,411
Agree to disagree. An assassin in a castle with a horde of wights, WW generals and their king alive for generations. In that universe, it's just too clean and I think they could've handled it better. Arthur Dayne didn't watch his six, Oberyn got too cocky, Ned trusted Baelish, what's the Night King's excuse with a literal army behind him.

Twice the pride, double the fall?

I mean the look on his face was all "fuck yeah, finally getting my hands on the three eyed raven".
 

reKon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,708
Episode was far from perfect and the way they had Arya jump in without showing how she got their was lame, but lol at people saying, "HOW WAS SHE ABLE TO DO THIS??"

She spent most of her training learning how to essentially become a ninja and not seen.

In the VERY SAME episode, she snuck around through a room in a castle while being injured full of white walkers...
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,780
I feel like I don't care any more, though. The interesting aspect about all that was all the back-room subterfuge, the lies and pretending, the secret alliances and "little birds" - Can you see any of that happening now, between Cersei, Dany and Jon?

It's my hope Tyrion and Varys do something interesting and smart again, before the end of the series. Who knows, with these writers.
 

Intraxidance

Member
Oct 25, 2017
950
It would be so cool, if the theory I read many years ago is true, that the WW and NK is trying to save the world from the chaos the three-eyed-raven is about to create. They turned on the children of the forest when they understood their true intentions.

Brans mind has been taken over by the three eyed-raven and the NK knows his true intentions and came to defeat him. But Bran/TER knew about everything.

Probably not happening, but it would be cool.

Maybe the Night King should have said something, rather than playing games with Jon and walking so ominously to Bran.
 

Amnixia

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Jan 25, 2018
10,411
The lore has always been a bit vague on what makes Valyrian Steel special, but the main theory spoken about in the lore is the fact that Valyrian Steel is made with Dragonfire and Blood Magic. That's why the Night King being invulnerable to Dragonfire, yet dying instantly to a Valyrian Steel blade is kinda weird. Though I guess technically it could be the Blood Magic that did it.

Think it's not "just" the Blood Magic and Dragonfire but also a special Ore only available in Valyria?
 

Hiryu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
61
Loved the episode. The cinematography was gorgeous. Some of those scenes of dragons fighting were everything my 13 year old self ever pictured. Arya killing the night king has been kind of obvious for a while now and then they really hammered home this episode. Even Martin has hinted at this for years with saying how important Arya is the the story line. I can't wait for her to assassinate Cercei next and complete her list.
 

Aurongel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
7,065
Which genius military mind puts catipults/ballista and other artillery on the FRONT LINE of the battle? INFRONT of the infantry?
They weren't? The siege weapons were place behind the Dothraki cavalry and in front of the Unsullied who were guarding the castle gates. There's even a shot of the Dothraki riding in as the projectiles soar above them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,510
Why can't an episode this visually amazing have great writing as well?
It should've been a two-parter at the very least.

This is some Monkey paw shit.
I understand that the way they've written the NK and his army, that this was the logical conclusion, a final blow.
That all sounds great and admittedly is great, however it happened WAY too fast.
I hate to say it but I wish Brienne, Jaime, Pod and the Hound died there.
 

DSP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,120
NK was obviously filled with hubris. just look at him walk out of fire! He doesn't say a word ever, just look smug AF!

seriously though, the only way he was going down was getting assassinated, that makes perfect sense to me. now how it was done maybe could be better but it was ok overall. 1v1 he could crush anyone. Maybe they could make it more dramatic like how Eowyn kills the witch king? That wouldn't make sense because Arya is a trained killer, not a warrior. It makes more sense for it to be like this to me. I had no issues with that. I think we are supposed to believe that he was distracted by Bran, maybe they could go into some mind vision scene and he get killed in middle of it?

In the end this story isn't about NK, he's just a plot device to develop our characters and that served its purpose well enough. He wasn't much of a character in the show.
 

Werd

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
470
I just wish Jon/Dany/Bran, or one of them anyway, had some part in the ending. Distraction, warg ability, reveal some info, maybe taking out some WW (when they exposed themselves to protect the NK) to stop portions of the wights a bit earlier before major characters died rather than have Sam just survive magically amongst dozens of them... something more than killing wights. Granted Jon/Dany did get the NK off Viserion at least, which was done incredibly visually going up above the storm into he moonlight.

I know everyone helping one after another itself would be cliche but this is a huge prophecy event they are all involved in after all.. something more than just a sneak attack. No problem with Arya getting the actual kill though, the actual moment was nicely done.

Right now I'm a little disappointed, but mostly because of massive expectations I still enjoyed it. Will obviously have to see how the last three play out to really judge some of the story decisions, and give this a re-watch.
 

steejee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,605
It suckes for the audience for sure. From a military perspective, the WW played it smart. They kept the generals back by the treeline like we saw early and played it safe. Kind of lame...but makes sense.

Once I realized the WWs weren't advancing I was like 'Oh you fuckers'. No plan survives contact with the enemy, and Jon/Dany's attempt to make a run at the WW's with the dragons failed when the NK brought the storm. The WW played the whole battle well.

Twice the pride, double the fall?

I mean the look on his face was all "fuck yeah, finally getting my hands on the three eyed raven".

There's also that the NK has been hunting the 3ER for thousands of years, and he knew Jon and Dany were dangers (hence using the storm to keep them away from the WWs). At that point Jon and Dany were both out of the picture as far as he was concerned - Jon trapped and dragonless, Dany outside the walls and dismounted. From his perspective all real threats were taken care of and his goal was right in front of him. Arya was a complete unknown, and as far as he knew Theon was the last living thing between him and Bran. It was cockiness, but it was justified cockiness undone by someone trained by the best assassins on the planet.

NK did the same sort of posing before killing the previous 3ER, but this time there was no one for Bran to pass on the role to. Damn straight the NK was gonna take his time.
 

smisk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,998
I'm convinced the series' best days are behind it.. This episode was brutal and tense yes, but it didn't hold up to some of the other great battles in the series. Felt too chaotic and it was difficult to tell what was going on (partly because of shitty compression). Never really got a good sense of the flow, or geography of the battle, just felt like endless waves most of the time, then a few quiet moments for no reason. I guess it just didn't feel super coherent.
Also they actually did the whole crypt thing, but we didn't see Ned?! Anyway, this episode was still good - I was on the edge of my seat this whole time, but it didn't quite live up to my expectations. Also the ending (apart from Arya being the one to kill him) was the most predictable route possible and I see the rest of the season being underwhelming.. Really hoped they'd do something a little more surprising.

Edit: Gotta say though, the Dothraki charge with the flaming swords going out one by one from afar was incredible. The decision to see it through the rest of the soldiers eyes rather than seeing that skirmish up close was a lot more terrifying, and that visual was just stunning.
 
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Prattle

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
995
Theon made the ultimate selfless sacrifice despite knowing it was completely futile and it was for one of the Stark boys. That was the best death he could have had.

Alfie Allen did a beautiful job conveying his emotions. His face doing all the work, much like Gwendoline Christie showing the pure joy of being knighted.

You could see him beating down the last vestiges of Reek's constant reminder that he wasn't worthy, you could see the relief that his fuck ups will be forgiven.

It was a wonderful scene. The ending that the broken man deserved.
 

lacer

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,693
ya'll are tripping. this show has been dumb since like season 5. that shit was fun
 

sibarraz

Prophet of Regret - One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
18,102
I'm sad for Theon, he suffered a lot, I wish that he ended with a plenty life, at least he died as a hero
 
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