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o Tesseract

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,546
im also kind of underwhelmed by his motive.

He wants to kill Bran and turn the planet into a snowball. Why? What purpose will it serve for him wandering around once every living thing is a zombie?

And why did the dragon glass that plunged into the man's heart plant the seed in the then night king's brain to kill everything?
In the books I believe it was explained that the Children of the Forest created the White Walkers to end the war between the Children and men. The White Walkers were created with a single purpose -- kill all humans to win the war for the children. I believe this was explained in the show when in the 3ER cave, after Bran learned that the Children created the WWs.

So basically, White Walkers were single purpose killing machines and always have been.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,497
It's funny, because there are seemingly lots of Lannisters and LOTS of Freys, but Stark cousins seem to be so rare in both the books and the show.

Yeah but I think that is mainly because the Lannister and the Freys never lost many key relatives. Tywin had his brothers and The Freys had god knows how many generations under the old as fuck Walder Frey. Brothers, sisters, aunts, and uncles all spreading out and getting married. They also live in the densely populated south where there are a variety of noble houses all over the place. Meanwhile the Starks are in the sparsely populated North. And Eddard lost his father, brother and his sister. Branden had no children at all. Lyanna died giving birth to Jon. So it came down to just Ned. Can't have cousins if all your aunts and uncles are dead.


Also if you want a laugh go and look at the Stark family tree compared to the Frey's and Lannisters. Its crazy how big the difference is.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,472
This thread has become a thread about endless speculation on what will happen. We have a separate thread for that, can people use that please? I thought this would be to discuss the episodes that came out.

It is pretty annoying to open this and see like 10 theories per page.

Can a mod set some ground rules?
It's inevitable that discussing the current episodes will lead to speculation, especially since the last episode had so many "death flags".

The other thread is for discussing leaks and speculation/spoilers surrounding those leaks.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,571
wanting a weapon=wanting dick, it's phallic
You'll have to forgive me for taking a character who's spent 10 years slowly becoming more and more obsessed with being an assassin asking for a weapon she personally designed as a face value thing.

That's a weird use of that term.

edit: Ohhh.. yeah that's how it's used in anime/manga huh?
Unfortunately. :|

im also kind of underwhelmed by his motive.

He wants to kill Bran and turn the planet into a snowball. Why? What purpose will it serve for him wandering around once every living thing is a zombie?

And why did the dragon glass that plunged into the man's heart plant the seed in the then night king's brain to kill everything?
Global warming metaphor.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
Yeah I've been thinking if these are that kind of creeps who would take their daughters to purity ball too.
Yeah, this whole thing is very prudish to say the least and honestly fucked up. So Arya ain't ever allowed to fuck or have basic human desires because we knew her as a child.

Or the idea that the show needed show us multiple scenes throughout the show to tell us that Arya, a human being, would be interested in sex. Of course she's interested in sex, she's a person.

Thankfully it seems like 99.99% of people taking issue with this scenes are just doing a bit where they act like a parent watching their kids have sex. This thread is the only place where I've seen someone take serious issues with the scene.
 

Ebrietas-

Member
Mar 2, 2019
260
In the books I believe it was explained that the Children of the Forest created the White Walkers to end the war between the Children and men. The White Walkers were created with a single purpose -- kill all humans to win the war for the children. I believe this was explained in the show when in the 3ER cave, after Bran learned that the Children created the WWs.

So basically, White Walkers were single purpose killing machines and always have been.

Isn't that just show only? I dont remember white walkers getting any backstory in the books
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,472
I can live with some nice moments 'fan service' moments when some of the most likeable characters like Jorah, Davos and Tormund look like like they're going to get brutually killed next week among others.
 

Haunted

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
2,737
I can see why the general reaction seems to have been mostly negative towards the first few episodes and how much fanservice there is. Like the scriptwriters got a checklist of standing issues between characters and they just wrote everyone their own scene to hash them out. You know, I get it, this kind of structure might even be needed to finish a series that's as full of characters like this in the timeframe available (while keeping the fans happy), but from a structural point of view, it is absolutely different from the first few seasons when the writers still stuck close to the books.

Also, while I understand these have been setup episodes - with a third of the final season done, it's been boring as shit so far. :p


Here's to the good stuff to come.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,183
Speaking about the Faceless Men, they're hypocrites. Fullstop.

Their whole thing is becoming No One, people who don't actually have identities and only serve on purpose: to become whoever is required to kill their target.

This is almost instantly shown to be bullshit from the very first scene that we find out the Faceless Men are even a thing when we see that Jaqen H'ghar not only has a soft spot for Arya but is then disappointed when she turns him down to go off to Braavos with him. This soft spot is carried over when she finally does go to Braavos to train with them when she's given multiple chances and it's clear to him and the Waif that she's still Arya and not No One. Anyone else would've either been kicked out or killed but he keeps giving her chances because she likes her, again, going against the whole concept of being No One.

The Waif, too, is shown to be a hypocrite. From day one she hates Arya because she feels she's not committed to becoming No One but would No One who is No One hold that much ill will togethers another person? Holding such emotions is what the Waif feels, as an individual, again, she's a hypocrite.

Even after everything is said and done Jaqen STILL gives her another chance after she kills the Waif and would even allow her to stay with the Faceless Men. When Arya refuses and leaves, at this point another Faceless Men would probably kill her, but Jaqen proudly smiles at her and nods at her, letting her know he was allowing her to leave. He does this all because Jaqen has taken a liking to Arya.

The Faceless Men are like a company that seems to have their shit together, you join, and realize there's a ton of office politics and no one knows what the fuck they're going.

That's cuz D&D wrote them. The actual book Faceless Men are infinitely more intriguing and powerful.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,896
Finland
Yeah, this whole thing is very prudish to say the least and honestly fucked up. So Arya ain't ever allowed to fuck or have basic human desires because we knew her as a child.

Or the idea that the show needed show us multiple scenes throughout the show to tell us that Arya, a human being, would be interested in sex. Of course she's interested in sex, she's a person.
Maisie Williams herself thought the scene was important and interesting for her, because it was very human relationship. It was something Arya has stayed away from, an emotion she hadn't engaged with before. For me it was bit like that infamous Ed Sheeran scene from last season, her sitting down to relax and laugh with Lannister soldiers. Brief moment for her to live like a normal person. She is a young woman too afterall, not just a cold blooded killing machine.

She had the control/agency in that situation, both as the character and as an actor.
 
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Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
I can see why the general reaction seems to have been mostly negative towards the first few episodes
The general reaction has not been that, at all. Pretty much everyone in this whole thread thought this episode was great.

The first episode reaction was more muted but not negative either. Just kind of a "yeah, it was a fine set up episode". This episode, though, was NOT setup. This episode was the bookend to tons of character arcs we've seen from the past 8 seasons. It's the opposite of setup, it's the payoff.
 

LegendofJoe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,101
Arkansas, USA
I think that Dany will be the hero of the story in the end. She's an outsider and as far as she knows she's barren. It makes little sense for her to rule the 7 kingdoms. Who would take over after she's gone? Dany is going to realize this and be willing to die to protect Jon.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,571
Yeah, this whole thing is very prudish to say the least and honestly fucked up. So Arya ain't ever allowed to fuck or have basic human desires because we knew her as a child.
Moreso that her interests wouldn't be natural at all. The most human thing she ever said was her desire to travel the world after everything was over. Otherwise her interest was always
a46442da38a11a9893af782c33409a8b6bd3dffc3053eb9ff5d34b63eaf484f345d7a08be52d1e43bf9c3f114ec3a08a.jpeg


The thing about the starks is that the two youngest survivors are currently the most fucked up.

Agreed. The Faceless men in the books are a force of nature. They are majorly nerfed in the show.
Technically everything is majorly nerfed in the show compared to the books when it comes to magic.
 

louisacommie

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,595
New Jersey
I think shireen burning was something grrm only came up with after he dumped the time skip

I mean she would have been 15 one original planned version of dance with dragons post time skip
 

louisacommie

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,595
New Jersey
Moreso that her interests wouldn't be natural at all. The most human thing she ever said was her desire to travel the world after everything was over. Otherwise her interest was always
a46442da38a11a9893af782c33409a8b6bd3dffc3053eb9ff5d34b63eaf484f345d7a08be52d1e43bf9c3f114ec3a08a.jpeg


The thing about the starks is that the two youngest survivors are currently the most fucked up.


Technically everything is majorly nerfed in the show compared to the books when it comes to magic.
exept the fireballs from the children of the forest

that's on par
 

John Dunbar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,229
One problem I have with the show is that it implies that every current generation shown in the show are the only people in that house. In reality, there would be dozens of Baratheons, Starks, and Lannisters outside of just the current head of the houses' nuclear family. Was Bobby B's father an only son? Was HIS father an only son? Was HIS father an only son?
that's one problem i have with the starks in the book. lannisters and freys are all over the place, but how on earth are there no starks besides the immediate family? a house that ancient that is still the ruling family of a region should have relatives coming out of the walls.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
Moreso that her interests wouldn't be natural at all. The most human thing she ever said was her desire to travel the world after everything was over. Otherwise her interest was always
a46442da38a11a9893af782c33409a8b6bd3dffc3053eb9ff5d34b63eaf484f345d7a08be52d1e43bf9c3f114ec3a08a.jpeg


The thing about the starks is that the two youngest survivors are currently the most fucked up.

Dude, it's sex.

Do we need scenes showing that Arya also likes tasty food? Enjoys not freezing her ass off? Maybe enjoys having two arms and legs?

There's nothing unnatural about a person wanting sex.
 

o Tesseract

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,546
that's one problem i have with the starks in the book. lannisters and freys are all over the place, but how on earth are there no starks besides the immediate family? a house that ancient that is still the ruling family of a region should have relatives coming out of the walls.
Ned's father and brother were killed by the Mad King. Ned's brother had not had children yet. Benjen Stark was in the Night's Watch and therefore could not father children.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,472
In the books I believe it was explained that the Children of the Forest created the White Walkers to end the war between the Children and men. The White Walkers were created with a single purpose -- kill all humans to win the war for the children. I believe this was explained in the show when in the 3ER cave, after Bran learned that the Children created the WWs.

So basically, White Walkers were single purpose killing machines and always have been.
This is not from the books, at least not so far. This stuff has been in the show only.

Do we need scenes showing that Arya also likes tasty food?
I lol'ed because I remembered a chapter where she is starving and had to resort to worms under rocks, and later, eats undercooked fish and still thinks it's "infinitely better than salt beef".

...I read the first 3 books too often >.>
 

empty feat

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,947
Yorkshire, UK
A point on Dany which may have been raised here already but let me say it anyway, bear in mind I haven't watched next episode's preview. As soon as Dany learns that Jon is actually a Targ, her first thought is obvious disbelief. But when he presses that he is what he is, she doesn't thinks about how she has a family again, or how she is no longer a lone targ in the world anymore, no relief or joy that her brother Rhaegar was infact not a monster who raped & kidnapped Lyanna as everyone had her believing but actually a victim of lies. No Nothing.

Instead her immediate reaction after Jon finishes his explanation is that he not her, now has a major claim over the iron throne. An expression of fury and perhaps fear of losing her power and claim and it is quite telling of kind of person she is or has become. It was the same when Sansa trumped her in their conversation earlier.
Yep. Logically Jon would just repeat that he's not interested in titles and crowns, but that doesn't play into the direction they're taking Dany. It's a bit contrived but a lot of nuance is lost in GoT through poor dialogue.

I really hope they've been leading us down this path though and Dany comes around.
 

John Dunbar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,229
Ned's father and brother were killed by the Mad King. Ned's brother had not had children yet. Benjen Stark was in the Night's Watch and therefore could not father children.
that's one tiny family within a generation, though. shouldn't mean that house stark is one bad flu away from extinction.

i understand that you're not going to create a totally realistic house for a fictional world, but house stark is just bizarre. with most of the major houses at least martin creates the illusion that it is an actual house.
 
Nov 18, 2017
2,932
I don't think you're arguing the same point.

Again, you said "now". Like, that's my entire point. There is no "now", it's been an always. Even your list agrees with me that it's not a now.

Maybe you misspoke? I dunno.

I'm sorry that my using the relative term "now", as opposed to "then", to demonstrate the ways in which the show has removed consequence from Arya's actions, has caused some sort of passive aggressive malfunction in your social conduct. Be well.
 
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TokyoJoe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,044
User banned (3 days): insulting other members with inflammatory rhetoric and generalizations
I really don't get the Arya scene "hate". She's a young woman, of course she's gonna fuck around.


Jamie is going to die saving either Tyrion or Bran, don't know how tho since we still need a final confrontation between Cersei and Jamie.

It's just losers and probably incels seeing their fucked up dreams, come crashing down. It's hilarious to watch. They think they own her lol
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,571
Dude, it's sex.

Do we need scenes showing that Arya also likes tasty food? Enjoys not freezing her ass off? Maybe enjoys having two arms and legs?

There's nothing unnatural about a person wanting sex.
I mean.....she gained the power to look like whoever she wanted and chose to eat hotpie's bread instead of imitating some noble to get good food. What you're essentially saying is it'd be normal to see her raving about dresses after the battle because that's just "natural." One of the core parts of Arya's character from the start is her atypical interests relative to "normal" people in Westeros. Something exacerbated by who she spent years with and what she was doing during that time. Which to a point is off putting to the people who knew her before namely her family members. It'd be like saying a Bran sex scene is just natural because he's a teenagers and teenagers like to have sex and context or characterization over the course of ten years be damned.

It's just losers and probably incels seeing their fucked up dreams, come crashing down. It's hilarious to watch. They think they own her lol
Yo can we not?
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,752
Norman, OK
I can see why the general reaction seems to have been mostly negative towards the first few episodes and how much fanservice there is...

giphy.gif


Reaction to Ep 1 was mixed, but Ep 2 appears to be one of the more well liked of the last few seasons based on what I've seen. Also, I'd like to take a moment to state that fanservice does not necessarily equal bad. I think Ep. 2 is a prime example of that.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,472
I mean.....she gained the power to look like whoever she wanted and chose to eat hotpie's bread instead of imitating some noble to get good food.
I know you crossed out that but then I don't know why you still posted it... but yeah Hot Pie is literally called that because his pies are awesome lol
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,687
In the books I believe it was explained that the Children of the Forest created the White Walkers to end the war between the Children and men. The White Walkers were created with a single purpose -- kill all humans to win the war for the children. I believe this was explained in the show when in the 3ER cave, after Bran learned that the Children created the WWs.

So basically, White Walkers were single purpose killing machines and always have been.

You're mistaken, but it's possible that the books might explore that. If we ever get any.
 

Burt

Fight Sephiroth or end video games
Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,191
The next two books are already written, Gurm's been circling in standby for the show to finish up to let each be his own thing.

Double-release this July, 14,000 pages of ASOIAF, count on it.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
GZw3Qhd.png


Now hold up there, partna. Your whole thing is pies, hell, you fucking name is Hot Pie. You're not allowed to think anything is pretty because I knew you as a child, it's weird and icky.

You're allowed to fuck one pie, though. We are allowing your sexuality that much but don't push it by trying out cakes or other pastries.
 

The Artisan

"Angels are singing in monasteries..."
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
8,187
In the books I believe it was explained that the Children of the Forest created the White Walkers to end the war between the Children and men. The White Walkers were created with a single purpose -- kill all humans to win the war for the children. I believe this was explained in the show when in the 3ER cave, after Bran learned that the Children created the WWs.

So basically, White Walkers were single purpose killing machines and always have been.
Leaf said she created the Night King to protect the children from humans, but I don't think she elaborates much more beyond that. And then the zombies that answer to him kill her anyway.
Global warming metaphor.
if the white walkers are symbolic to real world global climate change, I think that just reinforces the genius of GRRM. however...they don't give that much of an exposition on the white walkers on that. when Bran asked Leaf why she created the Night King, she said to protect themselves from humans, but...that's about it. Then there were those cave drawings Jon showed Dany about the children and humans coming together to fight the white walkers so they became a threat to everyone to (seemingly) no end.

with that being said, I really hope the exposition Bran gave last episode will not be all we get. there fucking has to be more to it.
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,139
I mean.....she gained the power to look like whoever she wanted and chose to eat hotpie's bread instead of imitating some noble to get good food. What you're essentially saying is it'd be normal to see her raving about dresses after the battle because that's just "natural." One of the core parts of Arya's character from the start is her atypical interests relative to "normal" people in Westeros. Something exacerbated by who she spent years with and what she was doing during that time. Which to a point is off putting to the people who knew her before namely her family members. It'd be like saying a Bran sex scene is just natural because he's a teenagers and teenagers like to have sex and context or characterization over the course of ten years be damned.

Sex isn't really a point of interest, it's just sex. You can see that Arya isn't particularly emotional about it, she remain her stoic self and just want to try it once before dying. She's not going to become a nymphomaniac from that point on, she may never have sex again for all we know, but at least she's going to know what it's like on her own terms (which is pretty rare in Westeros).
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
The best thing Cersei can do is not attack. Then Jon would want to reach some peace agreement. Dany would have none of it and probably attack KL, starting another war. Jon would have to intervene to stop Dany, and whichever dragon survives gets ballistaed dead by the GC.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,571
I'll just quote Morrigan here.
How is it not an honest take. Are you saying that atypical interests was not always a core part of Arya's character as a direct contrast to her sister who wanted to it neatly into the established system of the world?
know you crossed out that but then I don't know why you still posted it... but yeah Hot Pie is literally called that because his pies are awesome lol
It's honestly one of my favorite scenes from last season because it so very clearly telegraphs that Arya is fubar and that being in a somewhat normal situation feels off. Hell one could make the argument that the shot afterwards of her wide awake with Gendry sleeping reinforces that. That and the scene where she met her dire wolf, who like her grew up in the wild, and when presented the chance to go back to something "normal" it instead ran away. And she spells out clearly, "that's not you." aka "That's not me."
 
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