Game Informer: Cyberpunk 2077 Epileptic PSA

Shinrou · Dec 8, 2020

IRL braindancing, for immersion.

I absolutely hate any strong flickering lights in any media and I fail to see why people are using it at all. Like there should be alternative ways, except if you are intentionally aiming for giving nausea to the viewer.

Syriel · Dec 8, 2020

androvsky said:
It'd be pretty telling if this slipped through the console cert. I assume the reviewer was on PC.

The ONLY review code used in the published reviews at this point is PC. So no cert involved.

Deleted member 68874 · Dec 8, 2020

Kill3r7 said:
You are assuming the folks on the ratings board are aware of the pattern. These things are mere formalities outside of graphical violence or nudity.

That's why I said it reflects poorly on them. It's not like the ratings boards are unable to research patterns that are prone to causing seizures.

As you said, ratings are more so formalities these days and I think that sucks. If a game has a segment or sequence that has a high chance of causing a seizure there should be more than the bog standard warning games throw up.

Brazil said:
There's an entire sequence in that film that, frankly, people should be put in jail for. There's not a single case of epilepsy in my entire extended family and even I felt uncomfortable.

They really don't care beyond maybe enforcing those generic-ass warning screens.

Damn, that sounds real shitty.

Mi goreng · Dec 8, 2020

OldDirtyGamer said:
You think they want to make people have seizures ? Clearly is an oversight

exactly, i imagine what the article refers to is variable strobing patterns that are throughout the game

purseowner · Dec 8, 2020

My biggest 'fuck CDPR' of the day.

Seriously - if you're reading this CDPR - fuck you. This is ableist, childish, and incredibly dangerous. You clearly have a flagrant disregard for the wellbeing of so many in the world who are not as privileged as you. Stop attacking the marginalised.

Deleted member 10629 · Dec 8, 2020

Brazil said:
There's an entire sequence in that film that, frankly, people should be put in jail for. There's not a single case of epilepsy in my entire extended family and even I felt uncomfortable.

They really don't care beyond maybe enforcing those generic-ass warning screens.

I just watched it once, is it the part where

Elastigirl gets trapped while searching for the bad guy and lots of monitors go off? I think that's the scene

stupei · Dec 8, 2020

Mi goreng said:
exactly, i imagine what the article refers to is variable strobing patterns that are throughout the game

The article specifically refers to white and red blinking lights being especially likely to cause seizures and then says that there is a repeated element in the game where red and white blinking lights are very close to the character's face in a way that is very similar to how doctor's deliberately induce seizures in our real world.

It probably wasn't intended, obviously, but it's still pretty wild no one at any point thought, "Hey, do flashing lights really really close to the player's face ever cause issues for people? There's nothing I've ever seen at the front of every game I've ever played that's making me think I should consider the possible consequences here..."

laoni · Dec 8, 2020

Mi goreng said:
exactly, i imagine what the article refers to is variable strobing patterns that are throughout the game

The article has the general variable strobing patterns as a general warning in the other paragraphs. The OP's paragraph is about a specific repeating sequence that uses a pattern and method very close to what's used to trigger seizures for diagnostic purposes in the medical field.

Mi goreng · Dec 8, 2020

stupei said:
The article specifically refers to white and red blinking lights being especially likely to cause seizures and then says that there is a repeated element in the game where red and white blinking lights are very close to the character's face in a way that is very similar to how doctor's deliberately induce seizures in our real world.

It probably wasn't intended, obviously, but it's still pretty wild no one at any point thought, "Hey, do flashing lights really really close to the player's face ever cause issues for people? There's nothing I've ever seen at the front of every game I've ever played that's making me think I should consider the possible consequences here..."

but the thing is, people prone to this can't handle strobing at all

Mi goreng · Dec 8, 2020

laoni said:
The article has the general variable strobing patterns as a general warning in the other paragraphs. The OP's paragraph is about a specific repeating sequence that uses a pattern and method very close to what's used to trigger seizures for diagnostic purposes in the medical field.

yeah i don't know if i buy it

Messofanego · Dec 8, 2020

You've got to be kidding me CDPR

I'm surprised Liana Ruppert isn't more angry about all the sections of the game that can trigger seizures. Nothing even like "I wish the game devs had consulted with people with epilepsy or accessibility orgs".

stupei · Dec 8, 2020

Mi goreng said:
but the thing is, people prone to this can't handle strobing at all

Maybe you should read the article since it goes into all this? The person who wrote it had a seizure while playing the game and specifically says that red and white lights are more likely to trigger seizures due to her own personal experiences with them. Do you think you know more about her experience than she does?

Fat4all · Dec 8, 2020

while most games nowadays have general epileptic warnings, you really want to avoid shit like this

The headset fits over both eyes and features a rapid onslaught of white and red blinking LEDs, much like the actual device neurologists use in real life to trigger a seizure when they need to trigger one for diagnosis purposes

like, you really don't want ANYTHING close to what they use to consistently trigger seizures irl

perfectchaos007 · Dec 8, 2020

Glad the word is getting out about this. We don't want another Pokemon Anime situation where viewers get seizures by viewing it. Thank you OP for bringing awareness to this potential health risk.

Syriel · Dec 8, 2020

Mi goreng said:
yeah i don't know if i buy it

Author (a military vet who experiences seizures, is familiar with medical procedures used, and had a grand mal while playing): This specific sequence can be dangerous for those with epilepsy.

Era Poster: I don't know if I buy it.

laoni · Dec 8, 2020

Mi goreng said:
yeah i don't know if i buy it

You don't buy an epileptic journalist detailing her experience with this sequence of flashing from when she was diagnosed to compare it in the game? Now you're just trolling

wastingmyyouth · Dec 8, 2020

Syriel said:
Link to this? Not seeing anything on Google.

They only posted it on the CDPR Facebook apparently?

CD PROJEKT RED

CD PROJEKT RED, Warsaw, Poland. 484,853 likes · 88 talking about this. Welcome to the official facebook page of CD PROJEKT RED. Find out about our latest news, events, job

www.facebook.com

I guess it only really impacts the lore book now that they've updated the game code, but still.

Mi goreng · Dec 8, 2020

alright cue up my ban, i was arguing in good faith and misread a thing or two

Wanderer5 · Dec 8, 2020

Oh good, lets add this to the growing pile.

Brazil said:
There's an entire sequence in that film that, frankly, people should be put in jail for. There's not a single case of epilepsy in my entire extended family and even I felt uncomfortable.

They really don't care beyond maybe enforcing those generic-ass warning screens.

Still amazed that Pixar and Disney actually went through with that fight scene.

Sign My Guestbook! · Dec 8, 2020

so.. just how many people did CDPR not consult when making this game?!

Smokeymicpot · Dec 8, 2020

perfectchaos007 said:
Glad the word is getting out about this. We don't want another Pokemon Anime situation where viewers get seizures by viewing it. Thank you OP for bringing awareness to this potential health risk.

True. Didn't Rise of the Skywalker have the same issues? Hopefully they have a warning at least before you boot up the game and the work on a setting so they can control the blinking.

OldDirtyGamer · Dec 8, 2020

laoni said:
You don't buy an epileptic journalist detailing her experience with this sequence of flashing from when she was diagnosed to compare it in the game? Now you're just trolling

I dont think people are denying that it can cause seizures...lots of games have epilepsy warnings. Its the they did it on purpose that seems ridiculous.

Obviously an issue that needs corrected asap.

Dyno · Dec 8, 2020

Well, shit this is gonna make my playthrough a bitch to do. My wife is epileptic. Don't get me wrong I'm aware of plenty of problematic shit with this game already and expecting to side eye a lot of it but I'm gonna need to keep an eye out for this headset and ask my wife to leave the room whenever it appears for her health? Wtf CDPR... how many ways can you fuck up?

Kill3r7 · Dec 8, 2020

Messofanego said:
You've got to be kidding me CDPR

I'm surprised Liana Ruppert isn't more angry about all the sections of the game that can trigger seizures. Nothing even like "I wish the game devs had consulted with people with epilepsy or accessibility orgs".

She has no expectations. In the article she mentions how sick Dead Space made her but she kept at it.

Fat4all · Dec 8, 2020

Dyno said:
Well, shit this is gonna make my playthrough a bitch to do. My wife is epileptic. Don't get me wrong I'm aware of plenty of problematic shit with this game already and expecting to side eye a lot of it but I'm gonna need to keep an eye out for this headset and ask my wife to leave the room whenever it appears for her health? Wtf CDPR... how many ways can you fuck up?

make sure you read the article, they tell you where the general triggers are so you can help your wife avoid them

Syriel · Dec 8, 2020

wastingmyyouth said:
They only posted it on the CDPR Facebook apparently?

CD PROJEKT RED

CD PROJEKT RED, Warsaw, Poland. 484,853 likes · 88 talking about this. Welcome to the official facebook page of CD PROJEKT RED. Find out about our latest news, events, job

www.facebook.com

I guess it only really impacts the lore book now that they've updated the game code, but still.

Don't see it there either. Most recent post is from Dec 5 advertising the Lizzie's Bar poster and keychain.

smileyforall220 · Dec 8, 2020

Shellshock said:
This says a lot about Ratings Boards if none of them denied a rating to the game for something like this.

There's a big difference between generic flashing lights and lights flashing in a pattern similar to those used in the medical field to induce seizures.

I mean, isnt this a game with massive nudity/dildos everywhere. The game is probally a rating board nightmare

Old Gimlet Eyes · Dec 8, 2020

There is no fucking way they can't change it to not cause seizures but still give a similar presentation that they want. Joke Joke Joke status.

Never the Lesser · Dec 8, 2020

At best, this was a really, really huge oversight, and that's being generous.

Imagine if all publishers and platforms had epilepsy guidelines like these, except that they'd be mandatory. It's up to them to set the standard. Ignorance of the problem, financial concerns, and dismissal of the affected population of players shouldn't be excuses for dropping inclusivity.

Mik2121 · Dec 8, 2020

Hopefully they patch it out on day 1 so users don't have to suffer through it. You can definitely get a similar effect while making sure you're not potentially messing with people's health.

Dyno · Dec 8, 2020

Fat4all said:
make sure you read the article, they tell you where the general triggers are so you can help your wife avoid them

Thanks! Shall do. Its kind of unreal something like this made it through testing. I've never had to be prepped like this for her over a game. She's low on the photosensitivity side usually and more triggered by stress etc but she's had these tests done and they sure as hell work on her.

FFNB · Dec 8, 2020

Thanks for the heads up! I shared this on my social media for any friends/family of mine that may be playing the game. I have a few family members that suffer from epileptic seizures, so this is good to know.

I imagine it will be patched out ASAP. Hopefully an additional patch on day 1. They really need to be on the ball with this type of shit.

laoni · Dec 8, 2020

OldDirtyGamer said:
I dont think people are denying that it can cause seizures...lots of games have epilepsy warnings. Its the they did it on purpose that seems ridiculous.

Obviously an issue that needs corrected asap.

I mean, that guy's first post in this thread was just praising how good this strobing will be so, that's why people are responding to him in this manner.

I personally, don't think this was an intentional move, no. But the fact it's so similar definitely means some quick action should be taken, as seizures are no joke and this type of patterning might actually trigger it in people who've not ever been diagnosed. Even from the most cynical perspective, just look at the Porygon incident, you don't really want to be remembered as 'that game that caused all those seizures.'

Cyros · Dec 8, 2020

Syriel said:
Don't see it there either. Most recent post is from Dec 5 advertising the Lizzie's Bar poster and keychain.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3531452506970924&id=283103815139159&anchor_composer=false&ref=page_internal

purseowner · Dec 8, 2020

Smokeymicpot said:
True. Didn't Rise of the Skywalker have the same issues? Hopefully they have a warning at least before you boot up the game and the work on a setting so they can control the blinking.

I need to get better informed about these things. I didn't feel good after that one and not just because it was shit.

Messofanego · Dec 8, 2020

Mik2121 said:
Hopefully they patch it out on day 1 so users don't have to suffer through it. You can definitely get a similar effect while making sure you're not potentially messing with people's health.

People are really pinning all their hopes and dreams on this day 1 patch.

Brazil · Dec 8, 2020

NarohDethan said:
I just watched it once, is it the part where

Elastigirl gets trapped while searching for the bad guy and lots of monitors go off? I think that's the scene

That's the one.

OldDirtyGamer · Dec 8, 2020

laoni said:
I mean, that guy's first post in this thread was just praising how good this strobing will be so, that's why people are responding to him in this manner.

I personally, don't think this was an intentional move, no. But the fact it's so similar definitely means some quick action should be taken, as seizures are no joke and this type of patterning might actually trigger it in people who've not ever been diagnosed. Even from the most cynical perspective, just look at the Porygon incident, you don't really want to be remembered as 'that game that caused all those seizures.'

I mean I dont disagree with you . It needs corrected before the game is available and should have ready been fixed . But to say its intentional.....really?

Yung Coconut · Dec 8, 2020

All of you dumping on CDPR only... If this is such a huge issue how did it get through Sony and MS certification? Sounds like there is plenty of blame to go around.

Izanagi89 · Dec 8, 2020

Shinrou said:
IRL braindancing, for immersion.

I absolutely hate any strong flickering lights in any media and I fail to see why people are using it at all. Like there should be alternative ways, except if you are intentionally aiming for giving nausea to the viewer.

I remember getting physical headaches during one section of Control. I've never experienced it before but the flashing lights were so bad I could hardly manage to finish the boss fight with half closing my eyes and frequently looking away from the screen. It's crazy to me that games rely on this shit as a visual effect when it's so harmful.

Smokeymicpot · Dec 8, 2020

purseowner said:
I need to get better informed about these things. I didn't feel good after that one and not just because it was shit.

I am gonna say most games that I have played had some sort of warning before playing the game about this issue. Most recently Tetris Effect. Movies it feels like every so often. Shocked Speed Racer didn't have one.

Fat4all · Dec 8, 2020

purseowner said:
I need to get better informed about these things. I didn't feel good after that one and not just because it was shit.

i recommend talking to your doc about it

even if it just mild effects, its better to know that way you can manage it yourself

stupei · Dec 8, 2020

In an age when more and more companies are trying to find ways to innovate and make their games more accessible to people with visual difficulties or impairments, CDPR seems to forget that people with epilepsy exist.

Yung Coconut said:
All of you dumping on CDPR only... If this is such a huge issue how did it get through Sony and MS certification? Sounds like there is plenty of blame to go around.

Obviously it shouldn't have got through cert, but perhaps the company that conceived of flashing lights directly into the player's face as a central part of one of their core gameplay mechanics might take a little more responsibility overall.

aspiegamer · Dec 8, 2020

OldDirtyGamer said:
People are actually thinking this was done on purpose ? Come on .

I know you've been replied to a dozen times, but I really want to add +1 to the "have you followed this developer AT ALL recently?" train. Because come onnnnn.

OldDirtyGamer said:
.....really?

Yes. Fuck. When you set the bar so low that you don't meet basic standards of decency on other marginalized groups, why would this be any different? Not saying it's even necessarily likely, but it wouldn't in any way surprise me.

purseowner · Dec 8, 2020

Smokeymicpot said:
I am gonna say most games that I have played had some sort of warning before playing the game about this issue. Most recently Tetris Effect. Movies it feels like every so often. Shocked Speed Racer didn't have one.

Sure, but it's hard to know which ones have specifics that warrant it and which ones are just doing a catch-all to cover their arses. Tetris Effect is indeed challenging in that respect at times, but I'd say it was worth it for me. Control is one I've been looking forward to playing, but the above posts don't inspire confidence.

cabelhigh · Dec 8, 2020

Izanagi89 said:
I remember getting physical headaches during one section of Control. I've never experienced it before but the flashing lights were so bad I could hardly manage to finish the boss fight with half closing my eyes and frequently looking away from the screen. It's crazy to me that games rely on this shit as a visual effect when it's so harmful.

That section made we quit Control. I was so pissed NO ONE online was talking about that.

Devs, seriously, you dont need flashing lights to make your shit look cool

romey · Dec 8, 2020

My Blue Heaven said:
the hits keep on coming for this mess, jesus

Excuse me?

OldDirtyGamer · Dec 8, 2020

aspiegamer said:
I know you've been replied to a dozen times, but I really want to add +1 to the "have you followed this developer AT ALL recently?" train. Because come onnnnn.
Yes. Fuck. When you set the bar so low that you don't meet basic standards of decency on other marginalized groups, why would this be any different? Not saying it's even necessarily likely, but it wouldn't in any way surprise me.

I get the hate people have for cdpr I really do but to think they would intentionally do this? I just can't get on that boat .

Smokeymicpot · Dec 8, 2020

purseowner said:
Sure, but it's hard to know which ones have specifics that warrant it and which ones are just doing a catch-all to cover their arses. Tetris Effect is indeed challenging in that respect at times, but I'd say it was worth it for me. Control is one I've been looking forward to playing, but the above posts don't inspire confidence.

All games are gonna cover their asses though that's how the world works. My co-workers son has seizures and he can't play most stuff. He just sticks to 2k. It all depends on the person I feel.

It sucks how they don't put in options in all games for this reason some probably do but it isn't a fully across the board thing. The article in the op does state MS is working on something but we don't know how long that will take.

Syrenne · Dec 8, 2020

To everyone wondering how this ever could have gotten through certification...you're not alone.

Game Informer: Cyberpunk 2077 Epileptic PSA

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