Game Grumps host Dan Avidan responds to recent allegations

[Taka]

Grooming Allegations Against 'Game Grumps' Host Dan Avidan Explained

The 42-year-old co-hosts YouTube gaming comedy channel Game Grumps and is also the frontman of the band Ninja Sex Party.

www.newsweek.com

"I stand by the fact that any interactions that took place of a sexual nature with the person in question were done so when she was 22 years old and we were both consenting adults," Avidan stated. "To claim I engaged in any predatory behavior is simply untrue. I have made mistakes in the past, and I apologize if my actions or words ever made anyone upset, but those mistakes were never ill-intentioned, exploitative or illegal in any capacity."

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Here is the background of all of this:

r/gamegrumps - A General Timeline with the Drama that ensued (with sources and more points to address!)

3,722 votes and 734 comments so far on Reddit

www.reddit.com

This part is especially important:

It's clarified that the Fan is now 25 years old. She then gives her opinion on the situation: "It's not illegal, it's just a bit of an abuse of power I'd say, especially leading some of us (if not all of us) on"

• Essentially from the Fan's perspective, Dan was NOT grooming her, but she DOES BELIEVE that Dan was abusing his power.

The Fan NEVER stated that Dan groomed her. The grooming part is an opinion that Twitter, several minor News YouTubers and some members of r/RantGrumps made that became the main headline on Twitter's Trending page.

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The Fan herself mentions in a conversation with another Reddit user that she DOES NOT BELIEVE DAN GROOMED HER... However, she does think that DAN IS ABUSING HIS FAME.

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[Professor Beef]

I said this in the Game Grumps OT, but basically I'm happy there was no grooming and by extension no grooming victims. If the worst of it is that Danny led the fans on and ghosted them later, then yeah that's a dick move, but as long as both parties consented then there's not really an issue otherwise.

 

[KingE]

Good man, sad how people attack without doing research on the fake allegations.

 

[Z-Beat]

cant really think of anything else that qualifies as abuse of power in this situation besides grooming, but alright. What else would abuse of power mean here?

SOMEONE'S going into this guillotine damn it. I already set it up

 

[Adulfzen]

I said this in the Game Grumps OT, but basically I'm happy there was no grooming and by extension no grooming victims. If the worst of it is that Danny led the fans on and ghosted them later, then yeah that's a dick move, but as long as both parties consented then there's not really an issue otherwise.

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still seems a like the behavior of a creep tbh

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

Its a bad look for him with or without the extra effort the subreddit went. What I got out of this exchange is that Dan is a disappointing human being and also holy shit people are still upset that Jontron left (and became a turbo racist....)

 

[ConVito]

Cool, now address the rest of it, such as the credible allegations from other people that everyone else seems to really want swept under the rug.

He's only responding to the stuff that everyone already moved past since much of it was presented in bad faith. There's still the play by his former intern that brings up a LOT of issues.

 

[Professor Beef]

holy shit people are still upset that Jontron left (and became a turbo racist....)

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those people have been angry for nearly a decade

i'd be impressed with the dedication if it was for nearly anything else, but no these people (if you can call them that) think genepool jafari said nothing wrong

Cool, now address the rest of it, such as the credible allegations from other people that everyone else seems to really want swept under the rug.

He's only responding to the stuff that everyone already moved past since much of it was presented in bad faith. There's still the play by his former intern that brings up a LOT of issues.

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the intern stuff is facing scrutiny because she herself admitted that she's a compulsive liar (from what i am told)

i don't have the time myself to watch her play, so I can't really say anything for or against it

 

[LostSkullKid]

Good man, sad how people attack without doing research on the fake allegations.

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"Fake allegations"? The person making the allegations never lied about anything.

 

[Mesoian]

Good man, sad how people attack without doing research on the fake allegations.

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Um...the allegations aren't fake, they're just not criminal. She's still fully saying that he's a terrible person.

 

[L Thammy]

"Fake allegations"? The person making the allegations never lied about anything.

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Um...the allegations aren't fake, they're just not criminal. She's still fully saying that he's a terrible person.

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People rushing to talk about how people rush to talk about allegations, I suppose.

 

[aiswyda]

Glad the fan does not feel like there was grooming happening, glad to hear nothing happened when she was underage, still think it's def creepy and an abuse of power for a wildly popular 40+ year old man to sleep with an obviously adoring fan approximately 20 years younger than them, then ghost em. Even more so considering this seems to have happened multiple times

 

[LostSkullKid]

I really think it sucks that nobody's allowed to express bad experiences they've had with somebody famous without it turning into "YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO RUIN THIS PERSON'S LIFE". If someone says they feel hurt by the way they were treated by someone, I feel inclined to believe that they were in fact hurt by the way they were treated by someone. And they should be allowed to openly express that. It's not like the person making the allegations was trying to get Dan arrested or anything like that. I'm also not impressed that they haven't really openly responded to this in any way on any of their social media or YouTube. They could at the very least retweet the Newsweek article. It certainly comes off as them trying to sweep it under the rug. I feel like the feelings of the person making the accusations is more important than some dude's internet rep. Also, groupie culture's gross.

 

[kami_sama]

Glad the fan does not feel like there was grooming happening, glad to hear nothing happened when she was underage, still think it's def creepy and an abuse of power for a wildly popular 40+ year old man to sleep with an obviously adoring fan approximately 20 years younger than them, then ghost em. Even more so considering this seems to have happened multiple times

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This is my take. Glad there was nothing illegal going on, but the shittiness of the situation is still there.

 

[Saturday]

an extremely messy affair, so on the par for allegations made via internet. The circumstances have some remaining points which warrant discussion, but at this point it's a lot of muddy ground to tread.

 

[Professor Beef]

I really think it sucks that nobody's allowed to express bad experiences they've had with somebody famous without it turning into "YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO RUIN THIS PERSON'S LIFE". If someone says they feel hurt by the way they were treated by someone, I feel inclined to believe that they were in fact hurt by the way they were treated by someone. And they should be allowed to openly express that. It's not like the person making the allegations was trying to get Dan arrested or anything like that. I'm also not impressed that they haven't really openly responded to this in any way on any of their social media or YouTube. They could at the very least retweet the Newsweek article. It certainly comes off as them trying to sweep it under the rug.

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Maybe they felt that Dan's statement was enough? I do agree in being disappointed that they haven't said anything on the channel or on socials.

 

[ConVito]

If this non-apology is as far as Dan is willing to go, then that's my breaking point, personally. I was staying subscribed to Game Grumps in case they actually came out in front of this and accepted responsibility, but that subscription is gone now.

 

[Uzuki]

cant really think of anything else that qualifies as abuse of power in this situation besides grooming, but alright. What else would abuse of power mean here?

SOMEONE'S going into this guillotine damn it. I already set it up

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Grooming requires him to have been in constant with the fan from a young age and making her comfortable with him in a sexual manner. He has done no such thing. Now as for him doing the whole rockstar groupie thing that is gross and an abuse of his power. We need to focus on the actual bad things Dan's done and not make up ones to make him look worse. He's done that plenty of that on his own.

 

[19thCenturyFox]

So this got complicated and hard to follow pretty fast. Can someone who stuck with this explain how the grooming allegation got debunked, because so far all I can find are the arguments "she was one month from turning 18 and the victim says she doesn't think it's grooming, just gross abuse of power when confronted by an angry internet mob" which isn't really enough for me to let him off the hook in terms of being a creepy asshole.

EDIT:

Answered in the post above. It's not technically grooming going by the definition of the word, just weird and gross.

 

[HeavenlyE]

So this got complicated and hard to follow pretty fast. Can someone who stuck with this explain how the grooming allegation got debunked, because so far all I can find are the arguments "she was one month from turning 18 and the victim says she doesn't think it's grooming, just gross abuse of power when confronted by an angry internet mob" which isn't really enough for me to let him off the hook in terms of being a creepy asshole.

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I believe the Happy 18th birthday message turned out to not be him so there's zero evidence of them keeping in contact past that initial conversation when she was 17 until she was 22

 

[nelsonqos]

I imagine lawyers are in involved given the seriousness of the initial allegations. That probably explains the silence. I mean, a lot of folk here instantly outed him as a paedophile and groomer based on the false evidence posted on r/rantgrumps.

This whole thing is a mess, with the initial thread poorly updated and locked away. Again, I will stress that victims should always be be believed and listened to.

 

[Simon21]

Cool, now address the rest of it, such as the credible allegations from other people that everyone else seems to really want swept under the rug.

He's only responding to the stuff that everyone already moved past since much of it was presented in bad faith. There's still the play by his former intern that brings up a LOT of issues.

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Unless I'm missing anything, these other "credible allegations" are anonymous posts on kiwifarms and lolcows.

 

[Deleted member 32005]

i dont have anything to add other than i think there is a nuanced difference between "power" and "influence" or "fame"

like, a groupie isn't the same thing as an intern. and the manipulation happening to them is different.

 

[19thCenturyFox]

I believe the Happy 18th birthday message turned out to not be him so there's zero evidence of them keeping in contact past that initial conversation when she was 17 until she was 22

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Got it. I hope he reflects on his toxic behavior towards women because him being horny for his own fans, fucking them backstage and then ghosting them got him into this mess and made sure that bad actors didn't have to twist the story much to make him look like someone who groomed minors.

 

[Renteka-Bond]

i dont have anything to add other than i think there is a nuanced difference between "power" and "influence" or "fame"

like, a groupie isn't the same thing as an intern. and the manipulation happening to them is different.

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That's the boat I'm in. Danny didn't abuse his power over her to get her to want to fuck him. There's indeed a conversation to be had about groupie culture, but that conversation involves both sides taking responsibility, not just the celebrity. Unless it's a situation regarding rape, no one put a gun to her or an unrelated groupie scenario to want to sleep with him and, other than general dickery with how he played it out with the ghosting and whatnot, it takes 2 to tango.

Now if any of the other allegations get any solid foundation, we can look at those, sure. But as it stands, there's nothing much to see here.

 

[Nephrahim]

I'm incredibly hesitant to post this because I feel people are going to have very emotional responses to this situation, but I gotta ask, which part of Dan's behavior, ASSUMING there was no grooming going on, is being reacted to so negatively.

Sleeping with a fan? Sleeping with someone so much younger then himself? Or Ghosting them? Is he expected to spurn any advances from fans because it'd be improper? Because I mean, I feel like the amount of people who have slept with a celerity is proboly larger than the entire population of most countries. If it's Ghosting her: Dick move, but not really news.

 

[Simon21]

Post from the user who made the initial post on Reddit:

mod edit: removed a screenshot of a hate site

(Not my highlight, btw. It's not my screenshot and I'm sure as shit not going on kiwifarms to grab one myself)

EDIT: The suggestions of ghosting also seem to have come from this user, and not the woman involved. In the conversation had with her, which now appears to be genuine, she seemingly suggested contact had petered out a couple of weeks or so after they slept with each other.

 

[Simon21]

Double.

 

[Jokab]

I mean, don't for a second think that this stuff doesn't happen all the time with famous people. It sounds to me like she's pretty much just a groupie, a groupie whose feelings were hurt sure, but still a groupie. But maybe I'm missing something? Groupies have been a thing forever, not sure why Dan should be singled out.

 

[Cyberclops]

All the talk of grooming has really ruined any chance of talking about the issues and power dynamics that come about when you fuck your young fans.

 

[big_z]

Dans former PA commented she and others had seen that hot tub video before. Was there ever any follow up on that?

"Fake allegations"? The person making the allegations never lied about anything.

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The allegations posted on reddit were shared as fact. In reality the mod breaking the news altered what the victim shared in an attempt to move it into criminal territory. Pushing a grooming underage fans angle.

The grumps community was able to find holes in the story, including chat logs proving the mod fabricated or changed certain facts and the victim herself has clarified certain things as noted in the OP. The Mod started to nuke the account when learning he could face legal repercussion.
That's why some people think it's fake because it was told twisted right from the start creating a giant mess.

Had the information been shared straight from the start maybe a proper discussion would have formed around it.

 

[Renteka-Bond]

All the talk of grooming has really ruined any chance of talking about the issues and power dynamics that come about when you fuck your young fans.

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That's the biggest issue here with the way the issue was initially presented. Someone in the last thread brought it up and I mentioned it as well when talking to my friends about this, but the entire subject of Groupie culture and celebrity worship or anything relevant that could come out of this is ruined because it peaked with a humongous falsehood. By starting with 'pedophilic groomer!' as the basis, anything less is just gonna have people wring their hands of the conversation entirely.

 

[aiswyda]

stop just saying groupie culture is a thing. Y'all are just enabling this creepy behavior. It being a thing doesnt make it less creepy.

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

The guy was literally and unapologetically part of kiwifarms? This whole thing is fucked from every angle.

 

[Ketenge]

This still feels like a scorned fan was upset that Dan didn't commit to a relationship with them, and then decided to publicly share a private video in an attempt to embarrass him for no reason other than out of spite. Can anyone tell me how that's any different to posting an ex's nudes online?

 

[Jobbs]

So.. Story boils down to guy sleeps around? I don't know why this should be a public scandal. I don't really concern myself with what consenting adults do in their off time

 

[Simon21]

This still feels like a scorned fan was upset that Dan didn't commit to a relationship with them, and then decided to publicly share a private video in an attempt to embarrass him for no reason other than out of spite. Can anyone tell me how that's any different to posting an ex's nudes online?

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It's unclear at this point who reached out to who in the passing of this info.

 

[Ketenge]

It's unclear at this point who reached out to who in the passing of this info.

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Fair enough. It still seems pretty low to share that kind of video with people over the internet, even if she wasn't the one who released it on the internet.

 

[Angie]

This still feels like a scorned fan was upset that Dan didn't commit to a relationship with them, and then decided to publicly share a private video in an attempt to embarrass him for no reason other than out of spite. Can anyone tell me how that's any different to posting an ex's nudes online?

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Really?!?
You don't see any difference between someone who is a fan of someone, and that person used their star status to get sexual favors from younger fans, to immediately ghost them after he get what he wanted.
From someone posting nudes online to get revenge from an ex?

 

[Deleted member 16908]

I don't think there's anything wrong with a famous person in their 40s having consensual sex with fans that are in their 20s. If Avidan was actively leading fans on and fooling them into believing they were more than just easy sex to him, then yeah, that's pretty crappy.

 

[Ecks]

Hearing there was no grooming makes me feel a lot better about it. After listening to years of Grumps it just didn't add up. Sex with a consenting fan I could see, but grooming teens was just so disheartening.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

So, not a predator, just an asshole?

After all the reddit mod stories I've seen I almost want to never complain about the mods here.

 

[trineo_feo]

I don't think there's anything wrong with a famous person in their 40s having consensual sex with fans that are in their 20s. If Avidan was actively leading fans on and fooling them into believing they were more than just easy sex to him, then yeah, that's pretty crappy.

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This is my view also. A 22 year old woman can have sex with whoever she wants. And ghosting someone is crappy but doesn't deserve public shaming. I mean, I've done it too, and many woman do it too. It's just a crappy thing that sometimes happens and you have to deal with it.

 

[Nilou]

Do not make posts attacking the victim. There is no indication that she has lied about anything and she should not be attacked just for telling her story. While it is important to be clear about what exactly is being alleged (and what isn't), it's not appropriate to attack her for saying it.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Dans former PA commented she and others had seen that hot tub video before. Was there ever any follow up on that?



The allegations posted on reddit were shared as fact. In reality the mod breaking the news altered what the victim shared in an attempt to move it into criminal territory. Pushing a grooming underage fans angle.

The grumps community was able to find holes in the story, including chat logs proving the mod fabricated or changed certain facts and the victim herself has clarified certain things as noted in the OP. The Mod started to nuke the account when learning he could face legal repercussion.
That's why some people think it's fake because it was told twisted right from the start creating a giant mess.

Had the information been shared straight from the start maybe a proper discussion would have formed around it.

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Wow about the mod part. Is there anywhere where I can read about this?

 

[mentok15]

Dans former PA commented she and others had seen that hot tub video before. Was there ever any follow up on that?



The allegations posted on reddit were shared as fact. In reality the mod breaking the news altered what the victim shared in an attempt to move it into criminal territory. Pushing a grooming underage fans angle.

The grumps community was able to find holes in the story, including chat logs proving the mod fabricated or changed certain facts and the victim herself has clarified certain things as noted in the OP. The Mod started to nuke the account when learning he could face legal repercussion.
That's why some people think it's fake because it was told twisted right from the start creating a giant mess.

Had the information been shared straight from the start maybe a proper discussion would have formed around it.

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Do we know what the potential reason for this was? Making up accusations of someone grooming/being a pedo is a bit extreme.

 

[ConVito]

Do not make posts attacking the victim. There is no indication that she has lied about anything and she should not be attacked just for telling her story. While it is important to be clear about what exactly is being alleged (and what isn't), it's not appropriate to attack her for saying it.

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Thank you for this. I'm seeing a lot of attempts to "subtly" attack her character to diminish her credibility in here.

Do we know what the potential reason for this was? Making up accusations of someone grooming/being a pedo is a bit extreme.

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The reason was that it came from r/rantgrumps, a community committed entirely to supporting white supremacist Jontron after he left Game Grumps in 2013. They never got over it and have attacked the show relentlessly ever since. (To be clear, I support Dan's accusers. I just also hate rantgrumps.)

 

[based goth]

He sounds like a loser, but congrats on the sex anyways.

 

[big_z]

Wow about the mod part. Is there anywhere where I can read about this?

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You would have to brave that subreddit to get all the details, providing it hasn't been scrubbed.

Do we know what the potential reason for this was? Making up accusations of someone grooming/being a pedo is a bit extreme.

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It's a subreddit dedicated to bringing down the grumps. They got sour when john got fired and want him reinstated or to kill off the business I'm not really sure. They have a long history of toxicity for example spending years fabricating stories and shitting on Suzy, arins wife, because they were convinced johns firing was her fault. Reality is he was just a piece of shit and lost the job from his own doing.

 

[Simon21]

Do we know what the potential reason for this was? Making up accusations of someone grooming/being a pedo is a bit extreme.

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Kiwifarms hate Game Grumps essentially for being a publicly progressive, popular YouTube show. RantGrumps is a subreddit that started as a space for criticism people felt was being brigaded on the main fan sub, but has turned into an echo chamber for people to stew in anger at the show, including speculating and indulging in conspiracies around the creators' private lives.

The user who put this information forward is a user on both these forums, who seems to have a particularly unhealthy level of obsession. It is worth noting they are not the woman involved, who seemingly did not share the information with this user with any intention of it being presented as allegations of the kind of predatory behaviour it was then presented as (and that the internet then ran with). At this point, as far as I'm aware, it's unclear how the woman involved and the kiwifarms/rantgrumps user came into contact.