Game devs of Resetera, how do leaks impact your work?

[Dr. Monkey]

Heath Ledger as the Joker was people upset, though. Race-swapping (or even the incorrect perception of it, like with the Hunger Games) can lead to vast and horrifying harassment, as can all sorts of other things. There's backlash and then there's backlash that produces harassment, and that's the problem.

 

[Seesaw15]

People just have to accept that unless you work for Beyonce your project is gonna get leaked.

 

[EDarkness]

This sounds like a reason to have more leaks, or frankly, more information early so gamers can be reeducated to actually see how game development works. Outside of a small minority, when somebody sees somebody looking silly in a leaked set from a superhero or other CG involved movie, the vast amount of people realize it won't look that silly in the finished movie.

I have sympathy for devs who get upset their games get leaked, but in my view, the issue is the whole culture around the gaming industry, that doesn't want any information put out there ever, unless it's perfectly packaged, in a press release. If gamers can get used to an industry where announced games get cancelled, retooled, or whatever, maybe there won't be such overreaction to when games do get cancelled or changed from their initial announcement.

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I don't think that's ever going to change, because initial perceptions are everything...especially when the market is so crowded. There's too much noise out there and players are generally looking for a way to tune out of some of it.

 

[JesseEwiak]

I don't think that's ever going to change, because initial perceptions are everything...especially when the market is so crowded. There's too much noise out there and players are generally looking for a way to tune out of some of it.

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Then basically the entire gaming industry is broken and about the smallest problem in it is that reporters do their job and report news, instead of being beholden to marketing plans.

Again, I think leaking whole trailers or something is a far bigger issue, but Jason or somebody else is saying, "yes, Bioshock 5 is in production," that's not going to lessen my excitement if the trailer I see in two years is actually good.

 

[rein]

It sounds like someone got sick of him putting out insider information and called him out.

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It's his job though. He doesn't work for game companies.

 

[Serebii]

This is fucked up. I hope no innocent person actually got blamed and lost their job because of leaks.

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I have been trying to explain to people like LKD, Liam and so forth in the past that leaks have consequences to innocent people but they refused to accept it. Liam even blocked me for saying it to him.

Yes, it's what journalists do, but journalists also need to excise discretion and see if it's really worth it. Hopefully the stories from the developers in this thread will actually wake people like that up to know that leaking stuff just for a bit of clout on Twitter or to make money on their patreon is horrificly selfish and irresponsible.

 

[Deleted member 5535]

Trying to figure out where leaks come from is incredibly depressing - and I don't just mean leaks of our stuff - I mean industry wide. You have to first look at all the leaky or weak spots - external vendors, agencies, delivery services, you name it. Test in our case is mostly internal so unless there's external flighting going on, we wouldn't really consider any specific discipline as more likely than any other- and bluntly some of the beta/flighting/test software is more traceable than obvious or simple stuff - like a security guard at a rehearsal for example. Doesn't have to be leet haxorz or even people connected directly with a project.

The morale impact in the wake of a leak is horrible no matter what - being suspicious with good reason and having to investigate or track down the source is toxic for everyone involved - and there's another thing that always makes me mad when I think about leaker behavior - the leaker is creating that air of suspicion for all of his or her colleagues - and risking the livelihoods and happiness and stress levels and output of everyone they work with whether it be inside the development studio or at a bike courier service that happened to pick up a rough cut. And for what? I think it's dangerous to try and empathize with reasons people do bad stuff. But you can't help but wonder. A moment of anonymous fame? Or bragging on a subforum?


It's not whistleblowing. If you knew the government was poisoning citizens with faulty infrastructure, or illegally spying on people, or saving money by ignoring basic safety protocols, then "leaking" is a moral and ethically defensible thing. But risking the jobs and income of your colleagues to show people a new power up in a game? Or the return of a boss monster? Forget about what it does for you - think about what it puts at risk weighed against the public "good" of it.

Sure, if you're walking down a Chicago street and see thm filming a Batman sequel through a fence - or a new Corvette in test mule camo driving on the freeway that's their poor securing of what's happening and a calculated risk -- and you have no obligation to those folks. Personally I'd show my friends a cellphone pic and I wouldn't share it - but not talking about that kind of scenario. I'm talking about deliberately going out of your way to steal information or material you know you're obliged not to - ether ethically or legally - and sharing it broadly with no benefit to anyone except your ego or your "rep" - again, silly to try and consider what other people are motivated by - it's often just "I could do it and I didn't care" rather than some evil scheme, but the harm is real and can be permanent.

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There's a few different ways it can cost money, but it's mostly indirect. So it's not that money is being deducted from your bank account, but that there's a noticeable hit on your ROI, usually by comparing actual performance to projections, or by looking at the lost productivity or time spent in reaction to the leak.

• The most obvious is that modern marketing is a semi-scientific endeavor, in that there's established best practices reliant on a wealth of institutional knowledge. Campaigns are carried out to maximize efficiency and return on investment. Deviating from the plan that you've determined will give you maximum ROI will inevitably lead to lower ROI, and thus you've effectively lost money.
• For leaks of internal or WIP assets--public-facing media receives a lot of scrutiny before it goes live because you want your product to be viewed in its best light. A lot of work goes into crafting assets, especially if it involves gameplay capture. When incomplete work gets leaked, all of that dressing goes to waste.
• It screws with internal tracking of KPIs and ROI. Things like trailers are released on official YT channels so that the marketing teams can gauge performance. If it's competing for impressions with a bevy of leaks, it's much more difficult for them to see if they did their job right.
• Big news (like reveals or feature debuts) are often tied to exclusivity (e.g. with a news outlet or platform); there's a lot of planning and communication that goes into these deals. Leaks not only threaten the deal, but threaten your relationship with those parties.
• Certain types of games are hit harder than others. Check out the brilliant marketing machine of every Kojima game. Marketing and reveals done right are beneficial for both players and devs/pubs. Yes, it's "manufactured hype" and "corporate", but it can still be fun.
• There's a human cost which others have covered. Lost morale and lost productivity impose a cost on operations.

...and more! But to sum it all up, there's a lot of work that goes into reveals, not just in creating the assets but in how those assets are delivered, and deviating from that plan usually decreases the efficacy of the announcement.

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Thank you so much for your participation. Not only it's so much interesting to see the information but you also see the side of the people working on the matter. I'll for sure try to remember this on future discussions as this thread made me change my vision about the matter, which was always at the side of the people having content leaked but now even more.

 

[carlosrox]

Imagine spending time setting up a surprise birthday party for your friend and then some asshole told your friend about it a few hours before.

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B-b-but they didn't reveal the details of the party, just that there was one!!!!1

 

[Wrestleman]

I have been trying to explain to people like LKD, Liam and so forth in the past that leaks have consequences to innocent people but they refused to accept it. Liam even blocked me for saying it to him.

Yes, it's what journalists do, but journalists also need to excise discretion and see if it's really worth it. Hopefully the stories from the developers in this thread will actually wake people like that up to know that leaking stuff just for a bit of clout on Twitter or to make money on their patreon is horrificly selfish and irresponsible.

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Liam is a bit of an asshole all around. He blocked me for defending a friend when he attacked them (and the friend was ACTUALLY calling OUT the kind of posts he was accusing this friend of, BTW!) and the only way he could have seen their tweet to begin with was keyword searching stuff specifically to go out of his way to shit on it. Total tool. This is why I find it funny he's been on Twitter shitting on Jason's "ego" today. (For the record, I'm not always all that fond of Jason's style either, but I definitely think he contributes way more to the gaming space in terms of actual journalism...)

 

[jviggy43]

Imagine spending time setting up a surprise birthday party for your friend and then some asshole told your friend about it a few hours before.

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B-b-but they didn't reveal the details of the party, just that there was one!!!!1

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A better analogy would be setting up a surprise birthday party, and then your friend going through everyones phones and messages to find out about the party and then being upset at you for spoiling it for them.

Youre an adult. Dont go to websites with leaks/reveals/spoilers if you dont want to read them.

 

[Serebii]

Liam is a bit of an asshole all around. He blocked me for defending a friend when he attacked them (and the friend was ACTUALLY calling OUT the kind of posts he was accusing this friend of, BTW!) and the only way he could have seen their tweet to begin with was keyword searching stuff specifically to go out of his way to shit on it. Total tool. This is why I find it funny he's been on Twitter shitting on Jason's "ego" today. (For the record, I'm not always all that fond of Jason's style either, but I definitely think he contributes way more to the gaming space in terms of actual journalism...)

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I liked it when Liam got upset about someone leaking content from his patreon exclusive podcast.

The irony

 

[Wrestleman]

I liked it when Liam got upset about someone leaking content from his patreon exclusive podcast.

The irony

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Shit's wack.

 

[MrLuchador]

Leaks are harmful, as are people not realising this and the impact it has. Journalists reporting them and acting as if they're not a big thing need to realise this, too.

The end of of the day who benefits the most from leaks? The development teams or the journalists and websites reporting them? Shameful.

 

[seroun]

The end of of the day who benefits the most from leaks? The development teams or the journalists and websites reporting them? Shameful.

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The consumers.

 

[Serebii]

The consumers.

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Do they though?

 

[ToTheMoon]

A better analogy would be setting up a surprise birthday party, and then your friend going through everyones phones and messages to find out about the party and then being upset at you for spoiling it for them.

Youre an adult. Dont go to websites with leaks/reveals/spoilers if you dont want to read them.

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Alternatively, you're setting up a surprise birthday for your good buddy, and then a friend of a friend (who isn't actually involved in planning the party at all) catches wind and messages it out to every communication channel that your social circle uses (Twitter, Discord, Facebook, etc.).

Your buddy will still have fun at the party, but it doesn't change the fact that it would have probably been a little more special for both of you if it were the surprise that you wanted it to be.

 

[Aftermath]

I don't think it helps much to announce a game well ahead of it being shown at all. Games look ugly and broken very early on in development, so if you just showed a logo 2 years ahead of time, and spent that marketing money, would it be worth it? I'm not sure. People may just forget about it, or post "what ever happened to ____?" threads. Not seeing a game for a long time after announcement might have people lose confidence in the title, because it's taking too long.

People generally don't know how games are made, so they don't realize that the game is going to take a really long time to get made, even in the case of small indie games. It makes more marketing sense to announce it closer to release, when the media they can release is indicative of the final product, and that excitement can directly lead to sales in the long term.

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Cyberpunk 2077 was first announced with a trailer in 2012

I don't know if people lost confidence in it

Compared to when the new trailer & actual gameplay footage came out last year

 

[HBK]

Many sensible things were said in this thread.

What I find most interesting though is that it seems few people question the basic premise of relying so much on huge "reveals".

I get that there have been studies about impact, ROI, etc, but still. From an outsider point of view it feels weird to hear that people are crushed (something which is utterly understandable) when someone basically just "beat them to it". It's kind of like losing a race. You don't always win.

And don't get me wrong I'm one of those weirdos who don't like leaks because (among other reasons) I think the devs have the right to present their products on the best possible terms (as long as it's being honest, obviously).

But if you rely so much on big "surprise" events, it's no surprise someone will want to steal a piece of that attention.

 

[Falk]

gamers can be reeducated

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its nice to be optimistic before years of game dev and social media burns you into an emotionless husk

 

[MrLuchador]

The consumers.

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I feel sorry for you if you believe that.

 

[Striferser]

This sounds like a reason to have more leaks, or frankly, more information early so gamers can be reeducated to actually see how game development works. Outside of a small minority, when somebody sees somebody looking silly in a leaked set from a superhero or other CG involved movie, the vast amount of people realize it won't look that silly in the finished movie.

I have sympathy for devs who get upset their games get leaked, but in my view, the issue is the whole culture around the gaming industry, that doesn't want any information put out there ever, unless it's perfectly packaged, in a press release. If gamers can get used to an industry where announced games get cancelled, retooled, or whatever, maybe there won't be such overreaction to when games do get cancelled or changed from their initial announcement.

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I've seen several indie dev being open with their cost and production in this forum and previous forum. Let just say the response is not really what the dev expect... and this is gaming enthutiast forum. Good luck trying to do the same to majority of gamers

 

[Kyuuji]

I think it's telling most of the conversation is either about players or the companies at large. Almost entirely focused around what the consumer wants and whether they're affected and how it impacts their enjoyment. Which is a large part of it for sure, but we're also talking about people retaining the right to show their work when they feel comfortable. If your friend is working on a drawing and says to you it's not ready yet and they don't want to show it, and you then take that drawing when they're not looking and share it around it's universally regarded as a shitty thing to do.

We have designers and developers who've worked on products we've enjoyed, directly telling us that it's hurtful when their work is leaked early, be that in part, at a lower quality or otherwise. I'm not sure why that's so easily dismissed and swept aside just because it's now working at a company as part of a wider release. It's still someone's hard work, passion and creativity that's been put into something over years. Why we have a right to dictate when that's shown over them is beyond me.

Shadowkeep from Destiny looks great, I've preordered and I eagerly await the release. I still feel shit for the people who've worked on it though, and have never and would never dream of taking someone's work and displaying it to the world before they were ready to show it. It's disrespectful, unprofessional and, to me, shows a complete lack of regard for creative fields and the unseen effort that goes into the wider spectacle.

 

[kiguel182]

Please read this post: https://www.resetera.com/threads/j-...er-clarification.121718/page-39#post-21580724

My goodness. The number of willful misinterpretations of what I said here, as if I haven't written mountains of text about how I don't share everything I hear in large part out of empathy for developers who are caused real harm by these things.

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You did say you would think of sharing what Rocksteady's new game was if it was a multiplayer only game for example. So you would consider it even if it had nothing to do with consumer rights. I don't see how their game being different than expected is something that couldn't wait to be revealed on their terms.

The whole "should I leak" seems kinda flexible. And publishing leaks also gives them a platform anyway.

 

[wubalubadubdub]

does cory thing marketing departments are made of robots?

of course they're people, that doesn't mean it's not still a bajillion dollar marketing wankfest

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you seem to have missed the point - Cory is talking about how developers are deeply invested in their project(s) and they'd like to reveal it on their terms. it's fair to give a team that chance, and as a fellow game developer I couldn't agree more.

 

[Dorkmgl]

Leaks aren't great. The reveals and dates are there for marketing and sometimes things do change which is why these dates are put in place. People respect this in lots of other industries and I don't see why so many think its ok to do here.

When folks do get punished it is usually lower ranking or more indirect folks often unrelated to the leak that get caught up in things.

As games, game journalism, and game launches have gotten larger this has all become quite complex.

EDIT: You actually know what I find truly amazing about this industry? How much people actually share with each other without leaks happening and how much that has gone on for awhile because most professionals know better than to leak.

Now you have all of this going on and we actually have to be wary about who we say things to, even people we generally know we can trust.

 

[T002 Tyrant]

While I'm only friends with a games developer I am respecting their work by not leaking what they work on. Out of respect for their work and our friendship.

I believe he and the team they work in want their games revealed on their terms. So far no leak on what they're working on so I'm happy for them.

 

[finalflame]

does cory thing marketing departments are made of robots?

of course they're people, that doesn't mean it's not still a bajillion dollar marketing wankfest

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The absolute lack of empathy and understanding that there are real humans working really hard behind all of these things, and that 90%+ of them are well intentioned and are proud of their work, continues to amaze me. It's not hard to understand: when you cause or perpetuate a leak, you are invalidating people's work and taking away something they were working hard on, to reveal on their terms.

You couldn't possibly have a shred of empathy and refer to it as a "bajillion dollar marketing wankfest". I've yet to meet a colleague or peer who is in this business for the "wankfest" of it all.

 

[Temp_User]

Upper management starts clubbing baby seals, does a witch-hunt and offers the suspect(s) as a blood sacrifice to Khorne whenever leaks appear.

 

[thomasmahler]

I can speak to this a bit since we've been hit with leaks before.

Frankly, it sucks. A LOT. At Moon, for an event like E3, the whole team usually starts to put their heads together as to how we'll surprise players around NOVEMBER already - and then the work starts to put a trailer together. We first do quick animatics, often record gameplay of unfinished sequences or zones that need to end up in a finished state in the trailer and we then labor over every single frame for the next 6 or so months. Everyone in the team is affected by this, our design team needs to finish all the scenes that will be shown, our artists need to make sure every single texture and particle is perfect, our animators need to polish up animations, the FX Department needs to finish all the effects, our Tech department needs to make sure all the tools and everything works perfectly, usually Cassie (our editor) is making tons of tons of new cuts just to make sure that the music and the footage fits perfectly together... it's a crazy shit ton of work where you quite literally labor over every single frame and watch the cut hundreds of times over a 6 month period. And we do that to give fans something that makes them happy, to surprise them, to re-connect with our fans, so that they finally get new information. To me, E3 is all about fun and surprises and just go to YouTube to see the reactions of people watching the Ori trailers for the first time. Whether you find it silly or not, we had lots of fans bursting out in tears once they saw that we're making a new Ori game simply because they got so excited over the announcement. THAT's why we put so much work into this stuff.

Imagine you're planning a huge surprise party for someone for over half a year - that's basically what E3 is for us. We have to keep everything super secret during development, so E3 is one of the few times in the year where we can reach out to our fans, give them more information and just re-connect. And now imagine someone comes in and spoils the whole surprise party and on top of that, you run the risk that the whole party gets called off, even though you spent half a year working incredibly hard on it -> That's why developers hate leaks. It's hugely demotivating to have someone just shit on everything you did, to potentially lose a huge marketing asset that you've been laboring over, it potentially hurts the game and the studio financially and all that just so some journalist can boast that they've got cool insider information. I completely get that it's a journalists job to pick up cool information that they can then share with the public, but just think for a second how developers are affected by this. We had screenshots of the initial Will of the Wisps trailer go up before the announcement and I saw how everyone in the team just got depressed when they were all super excited just days before to finally be able to show off their work. And at that point we were unclear whether Microsoft would pull us off the stage completely because of the leak - so yeah, it's just a huge gut punch, to be frank.

 

[SPRidley]

I was an artist on DC Scribblenauts. On the old place some years ago, it was leaked to the press that the game existed, with actual info. The big problem was, it was someone at WB who leaked the info, and the way the press treated the leak was like if it was official info released by WB.
Our NDA said we could talk about the game once WB realesed info so in the thread in the old place I talk about how exciting and fun was working on it.
Well, it was a leak and not official, and i got scolded for talking about it (thankfully it was minor because they knew how the info released looked official and other people at 5th cell had the same problem, and they discovered fast who at wb was). Even then I was scared shitless of losing my job and it wasnt a fun time, i can assure you that.


So yeah not a big fan of leaks as a dev. It harms the actual people working at the game, not only marketing.

It has to be horrible being at ninja theory now. With the whole trailer leaked thats not laughing matter.

I can speak to this a bit since we've been hit with leaks before.


Frankly, it sucks. A LOT. At Moon, for an event like E3, the whole team usually starts to put their heads together as to how we'll surprise players around NOVEMBER already - and then the work starts to put a trailer together. We first do quick animatics, often record gameplay of unfinished sequences or zones that need to end up in a finished state in the trailer and we then labor over every single frame for the next 6 or so months. Everyone in the team is affected by this, our design team needs to finish all the scenes that will be shown, our artists need to make sure every single texture and particle is perfect, our animators need to polish up animations, the FX Department needs to finish all the effects, our Tech department needs to make sure all the tools and everything works perfectly, usually Cassie (our editor) is making tons of tons of new cuts just to make sure that the music and the footage fits perfectly together... it's a crazy shit ton of work where you quite literally labor over every single frame and watch the cut hundreds of times over a 6 month period. And we do that to give fans something that makes them happy, to surprise them, to re-connect with our fans, so that they finally get new information. To me, E3 is all about fun and surprises and just go to YouTube to see the reactions of people watching the Ori trailers for the first time. Whether you find it silly or not, we had lots of fans bursting out in tears once they saw that we're making a new Ori game simply because they got so excited over the announcement. THAT's why we put so much work into this stuff.


Imagine you're planning a huge surprise party for someone for over half a year - that's basically what E3 is for us. We have to keep everything super secret during development, so E3 is one of the few times in the year where we can reach out to our fans, give them more information and just re-connect. And now imagine someone comes in and spoils the whole surprise party and on top of that, you run the risk that the whole party gets called off, even though you spent half a year working incredibly hard on it -> That's why developers hate leaks. It's hugely demotivating to have someone just shit on everything you did, to potentially lose a huge marketing asset that you've been laboring over, it potentially hurts the game and the studio financially and all that just so some journalist can boast that they've got cool insider information. I completely get that it's a journalists job to pick up cool information that they can then share with the public, but just think for a second how developers are affected by this. We had screenshots of the initial Will of the Wisps trailer go up before the announcement and I saw how everyone in the team just got depressed when they were all super excited just days before to finally be able to show off their work. And at that point we were unclear whether Microsoft would pull us off the stage completely because of the leak - so yeah, it's just a huge gut punch, to be frank.

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Did you guys discovered who was the leaker? Hooefully nobody at the core studio.

 

[EVIL]

Just to add further proof how leaks can be very harmful I quote this post by "Exist 2 Inspire" that he posted in the other thread but obviously nobody has responded to that or even gave it a second look

Is it really a problem? Like what's the actual damage there? How is knowing the existence of a game before an official announcement hurting devs?

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Telltale Games Allegedly Fined $1 Million For Stranger Things Leaks

...the gaming company was sued for $1 million because of the leaks and was a major contributor in it having to lay off almost all of its staff. Not just because that is a lot of money to have to pay out, but it may have also put off other partners from working with Telltale.

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[Sanka]

I was so suprised that everyone was agreeing with Jason at first when that made the rounds on here. Almost making fun of or looking down on Cory for not really being amused by leaks. Like where is the empathy?
Potentially only the developers, fans and also then maybe the success or reception of the game are going to get hurt. What's the benefit here apart from more clicks for news sites?

Like right now I feel for the devs at ninja theory, it must suck to read all these uninformed, negative comments that people write about a game they have only seen out of context.

 

[MrLuchador]

Have to get those scoops and drive the clicks in, which is why that Jason post is so sour.

 

[Falk]

If I could speak on behalf of what marketing has to do for a moment, there's this common headcanon among gamers that marketing are basically a bunch of moustache-twirling villains sitting around a table brainstorming ways to trick poor consumers into buying an inferior product with fiendishly brilliant ideas like "I know, let's DELIBERATELY make a trailer that LOOKS BETTER than the retail product (of which we know what is going to look like because we're time-traveling magicians from the future) then by the time the game comes out it will be TOO LATE muahahaha".

Marketing has the incredibly tough job of finding a way to represent a game where the final product is something of a moving goalpost, and the further out the game is, the larger that margin of error is, even for relatively experienced devs. That a game can get misrepresented in ways spanning genre (Brutal Legend, lol), to how a game looks, to specific features, to release window, are all things that users can get up in arms about en-masse because consumers aren't completely blind/dumb, and to marketing's credit, experienced people who do this for a career similarly aren't dumb enough to overlook the fact that that bad press hurts a game's reception, whether it's pre- or post- launch.

Heck, more often than not everyone on the dev team starts sweating and shitting bricks the closer release gets, wondering if the retail product will live up to marketing hype. (i.e. not "BAH, FOILED AGAIN")

In some ways this thread and this one are a self-fulfilling prophecy- several posters aren't actually interested in hearing out reasoning from people who actually make games and are just looking for an avenue to mansplain a relatively uninformed viewpoint about why having an unfetterd lens into the dev process benefits everyone.

Which, ironically, is the exact reason being transparent about the dev process is a bad idea in the first place- somehow users on a forum feel like they have the answer to everything that can/does go wrong during game dev as a natural/common part of the process, and why you don't usually see people take the ludicrous amount of extra time/effort out of their already shitty day schedules to publicly talk about what they do while making a game, unless it's either A) a relatively small undertaking where a look into the process is part of the community-building/word-of-mouth/etc. or B) a crowdfunding promise and something backers/patreons/etc. are actually owed.

 

[thomasmahler]

Did you guys discovered who was the leaker? Hooefully nobody at the core studio.

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Nah, it was someone from the team Microsoft hires who organize the Xbox Press Conference.

 

[SPRidley]

Nah, it was someone from the team Microsoft hires who organize the Xbox Press Conference.

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Seems leaks usually get out from this type of people. Im sure they sign NDAs but they seem to not give a damn as they think they arent going to be discovered.

 

[Mik2121]

Nobody really benefits except the news site owners. Sure, gamers will get to know about it a few weeks earlier, but the game is not releasing a few weeks earlier. And they risk getting the thing leaked in a bad way that doesn't fully reveal what the developers intended or is missing critical information, etc.
The developers are hurt because their product isn't being shown to people the way they expected, and presentation is VERY important. Same for the publishers since they're the ones spending the money on the game and usually the advertising as well.

All in all, leakers help nobody and most (all) game devs hate the hell out of them.

 

[Gakidou]

In my experience, leaks affect the marketing and publishing departments way more than devs like me, they stand to lose SO MUCH MONEY by having their marketing strategy spoiled and its like, several people's ENTIRE job and passion. For me it's just like, at worst people like the game less than they would have if it was presented to them in a cool surprising teaser instead of read off a piece of paper with some early-in-dev screenshots. But even an official announcement can go either way with fans anyway, so whatever. Plus people don't tend to be like "WHO MODELLED THAT GARBAGE TIER PETUNIA BUSH IN THE ENVIRONMENT ART??" so my morale is pretty safe.

The worst kind of leak though is having SOMEONE ELSE'S work (eg: new console/tech info, movie tie in) spoiled through your own studio. That obviously takes down the reputation of the entire studio all because of one person (and it might not even be someone employed there). And not being trusted means you have to make your game with more and more hurdles and less information. Like boy I don't really want to waste half a day getting access to the new super secure vault of reference material I need to do my work, yknow?

Still, honestly this whole thing about these journalists saying "oh ACTUALLY its just an ADVERT why would you be upset about adverts being spoiled?" is a really shitty take and makes me so mad. Of course it's an advert, of course all of E3 is just adverts. Don't bloody patronise consumers, playing the "getting excited about corporate products is so gauche" when you're literally the one who makes that sweet clickbait money off stealing the thunder of these "JUST ADVERTS". And speaking entirely as a consumer/gamer, maybe I just LIKE SUPRISES okay?? I don't hate on journalists for doing their job but don't give me that "ACTUALLY SPOILERS/LEAKS ARE NOBLE AND CONSUMER FRIENDLY BECAUSE NOW WE GET TO TELL YOU WHAT TO THINK INSTEAD OF THOSE BIG COMPANIES" swill.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I was part of a team that had stuff leaked years ago, it sucks. People forget devs are mostly fans too and actually really get into this stuff. We want fans to be surprised when a reveal is done right.

 

[MrLuchador]

Still, honestly this whole thing about these journalists saying "oh ACTUALLY its just an ADVERT why would you be upset about adverts being spoiled?" is a really shitty take and makes me so mad. Of course it's an advert, of course all of E3 is just adverts. Don't bloody patronise consumers, playing the "getting excited about corporate products is so gauche" when you're literally the one who makes that sweet clickbait money off stealing the thunder of these "JUST ADVERTS". And speaking entirely as a consumer/gamer, maybe I just LIKE SUPRISES okay?? I don't hate on journalists for doing their job but don't give me that "ACTUALLY SPOILERS/LEAKS ARE NOBLE AND CONSUMER FRIENDLY BECAUSE NOW WE GET TO TELL YOU WHAT TO THINK INSTEAD OF THOSE BIG COMPANIES" swill.

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Well said.

 

[Dancrane212]

And at that point we were unclear whether Microsoft would pull us off the stage completely because of the leak - so yeah, it's just a huge gut punch, to be frank.

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That would have been terrible. I hadn't seen the leak since I was running around doing Fanfest stuff in LA that day so that reveal onstage was pretty impactful. The intro piece Gareth Coker played really threw me for a loop if the game was going to be Ori or not.

 

[SinkFla]

In my experience, leaks affect the marketing and publishing departments way more than devs like me, they stand to lose SO MUCH MONEY by having their marketing strategy spoiled and its like, several people's ENTIRE job and passion. For me it's just like, at worst people like the game less than they would have if it was presented to them in a cool surprising teaser instead of read off a piece of paper with some early-in-dev screenshots. But even an official announcement can go either way with fans anyway, so whatever. Plus people don't tend to be like "WHO MODELLED THAT GARBAGE TIER PETUNIA BUSH IN THE ENVIRONMENT ART??" so my morale is pretty safe.

The worst kind of leak though is having SOMEONE ELSE'S work (eg: new console/tech info, movie tie in) spoiled through your own studio. That obviously takes down the reputation of the entire studio all because of one person (and it might not even be someone employed there). And not being trusted means you have to make your game with more and more hurdles and less information. Like boy I don't really want to waste half a day getting access to the new super secure vault of reference material I need to do my work, yknow?

Still, honestly this whole thing about these journalists saying "oh ACTUALLY its just an ADVERT why would you be upset about adverts being spoiled?" is a really shitty take and makes me so mad. Of course it's an advert, of course all of E3 is just adverts. Don't bloody patronise consumers, playing the "getting excited about corporate products is so gauche" when you're literally the one who makes that sweet clickbait money off stealing the thunder of these "JUST ADVERTS". And speaking entirely as a consumer/gamer, maybe I just LIKE SUPRISES okay?? I don't hate on journalists for doing their job but don't give me that "ACTUALLY SPOILERS/LEAKS ARE NOBLE AND CONSUMER FRIENDLY BECAUSE NOW WE GET TO TELL YOU WHAT TO THINK INSTEAD OF THOSE BIG COMPANIES" swill.

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Truth carpet bomb.

 

[Sanka]

In my experience, leaks affect the marketing and publishing departments way more than devs like me, they stand to lose SO MUCH MONEY by having their marketing strategy spoiled and its like, several people's ENTIRE job and passion. For me it's just like, at worst people like the game less than they would have if it was presented to them in a cool surprising teaser instead of read off a piece of paper with some early-in-dev screenshots. But even an official announcement can go either way with fans anyway, so whatever. Plus people don't tend to be like "WHO MODELLED THAT GARBAGE TIER PETUNIA BUSH IN THE ENVIRONMENT ART??" so my morale is pretty safe.

The worst kind of leak though is having SOMEONE ELSE'S work (eg: new console/tech info, movie tie in) spoiled through your own studio. That obviously takes down the reputation of the entire studio all because of one person (and it might not even be someone employed there). And not being trusted means you have to make your game with more and more hurdles and less information. Like boy I don't really want to waste half a day getting access to the new super secure vault of reference material I need to do my work, yknow?

Still, honestly this whole thing about these journalists saying "oh ACTUALLY its just an ADVERT why would you be upset about adverts being spoiled?" is a really shitty take and makes me so mad. Of course it's an advert, of course all of E3 is just adverts. Don't bloody patronise consumers, playing the "getting excited about corporate products is so gauche" when you're literally the one who makes that sweet clickbait money off stealing the thunder of these "JUST ADVERTS". And speaking entirely as a consumer/gamer, maybe I just LIKE SUPRISES okay?? I don't hate on journalists for doing their job but don't give me that "ACTUALLY SPOILERS/LEAKS ARE NOBLE AND CONSUMER FRIENDLY BECAUSE NOW WE GET TO TELL YOU WHAT TO THINK INSTEAD OF THOSE BIG COMPANIES" swill.

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Great take, especially the last paragraph captures this weird condescending tone of this whole thing.

 

[blue_phazon]

Man this is why I love era so much. Getting all this info from devs is cool af

 

[Granadier]

To anyone who thinks, "pffff...why should a dev care if I see their stuff early from a leak?", I would ask:
Do you dress up on a first date?

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This. You want the first impression of your work to be the best. With all the right angles.

 

[Scrambled Brambles]

I'm so, so tired of "jOuRnAlIsTs" trying to justify publishing leaked information as if they're providing some kind of service that's required and ethical and they're actually saving the public from the big, bad marketing companies that are oppressing us by planning reveals to be surprising. Game trailers are an art form like anything else, however lowbrow, and a lot of people look forward to being wowed by them instead of having some nobody spreading info on twitter for clout. You don't need to know things before they're intended to be known. It's not some dark evil that needs to be brought down. If you're not whistleblowing bad practices, you have no business leaking. Imagine believing you're entitled to know everything about a surprise in advance, and ruin it for everyone else, just because you're impatient and don't believe in surprises. Must be fun at birthday parties.

 

[jviggy43]

Alternatively, you're setting up a surprise birthday for your good buddy, and then a friend of a friend (who isn't actually involved in planning the party at all) catches wind and messages it out to every communication channel that your social circle uses (Twitter, Discord, Facebook, etc.).

Your buddy will still have fun at the party, but it doesn't change the fact that it would have probably been a little more special for both of you if it were the surprise that you wanted it to be.

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Not a great analogy. For those who dont want to be spoiled they know what websites to stay off of to ensure that doesnt happen. Its entirely on themselves for coming to places like here and seeing leaks they didnt want to see.

 

[banter]

Not a great analogy. For those who dont want to be spoiled they know what websites to stay off of to ensure that doesnt happen. Its entirely on themselves for coming to places like here and seeing leaks they didnt want to see.

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I disagree, leaks get blown up all over social media, not just on enthusiast websites like this. One shouldn't have to avoid all social media just to avoid E3 leaks. I think the analogy holds pretty well in that respect.

 

[Mr. X]

Rumors are fun.
Leaks are not.

Im not a dev.

 

[SaraNWrap]

They don't really affect us as a lot of the "leaks" you see are really just planned marketing. There hasn't been a real leak in a long time.