Game devs of Resetera, how do leaks impact your work?

[TeddyShardik]

Speaking for myself, I can assure all devs posting here that knowing about a project doesn't take anything away from being able to see it in action or in a trailer!
I still appreciate all the hard work that went into a game I might have been waiting to see once I caught wind of it.

The surprise is still there, I'll just be flipping my shit before the the official announcement. I can see how it can be really disappointing, especially in the days of youtube etc., to see commenters go "okay, we knew about that one" when you had this whole thing planned out as a big surprise and can't wait to see live reactions.

Then again, I'm just some guy on the internet who doesn't post videos of me flipping my shit at E3, but I'd wager there are DOZENS of us!

None of your hard work just disappears. I'm still excited, maybe even more after hearing about a game, to see the real thing.

Again, I'm just speaking for myself of course, but I think it's still important to hear here and there. :)

 

[NeoRaider]

Leaks are usually low quality, they can be incomplete and give wrong impression about the product. There is nothing good about them, especially if they happen few days before the official reveal. They ruin that surprise and "wow" factor that only a game reveal can give.

I always feel bad for developers when their work leaks.

 

[Teeth]

To anyone who thinks, "pffff...why should a dev care if I see their stuff early from a leak?", I would ask:
Do you dress up on a first date?

 

[Prototype Viktor]

I've been working on Half Life 3 for years now and every time one of you fuckers almost pieces together one of my many clues in cereal boxes, movie trailers and bible quotes to guess the release date my heart skips.

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been putting my nose to the grind in my The Last of Us Part 3 game where Ellie takes down and kills Ubisoft but people keep leaking shit from The Last of Us part 2 making them take longer and pushing back my game as well

 

[Deleted member 9317]

Nobody likes ruining surprises when it took years to make. It's the developer you love surprising you with a ring saying "will you go on this journey with me? (or buy this game for me)", and we say yes or no.

It'll hurt moods, mostly. It won't affect the audience engagement with the game, but it will affect the excitement as you've shared it in silence.

It's fun to care about the surprises. It's less about spoiler.

 

[Heyasuki]

I'd rather things not get leaked personally so I can enjoy my surprises. Then again what am I doing surfing Resetera on E3 week...I'm just asking to be spoiled.

 

[Storm]

I was part of a studio when a project leaked a few years ago.

It was awful, the entire studio basically suspended operations and went on lockdown until the leaker was caught.

 

[Acidote]

I was part of a studio when a project leaked a few years ago.

It was awful, the entire studio basically suspended operations and went on lockdown until the leaker was caught.

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That is for me why things would be better if the industry secrecy zealotry was non existant. I'm with Schreier on this one.
The problem is not the leak, the problem is for a leak to be considered such a huge problem.

 

[Deleted member 5535]

Gamers love to shit on marketing people, it's impressive. They don't valorize them at all.

As far as the thread, everyone gets fucked in leaks. And of course, if something leaks, a journalist would be an idiot to not report if everyone is already doing that. One thing is for just some knowing, another is when it's already spread all around.

 

[Glio]

That is for me why things would be better if the industry secrecy zealotry was non existant. I'm with Schreier on this one.
The problem is not the leak, the problem is for a leak to be considered such a huge problem.

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Secrecy in video games is quite normal compared to other industries. It is the cinema and the series that are the exception

 

[Mediking]

Im the director of Final Fantasy XVI and there is no way 16 is gonna get spoiled or leaked. If it does get leaked then I was the cause of it and it would be planned advertising

 

[JoeInky]

On the one hand, people shouldn't leak things, its damaging and unprofessional as fuck.

But on the other hand, the culture of secrecy and a lack of transparency in the industry is shit, when you bank so much on surprising people with just an announcement then its bound to bite you in the ass.

I preferred getting "metroid prime 4 now in development" to most recent "surprise" game reveals.

 

[MatrixMan.exe]

Nothing I've ever worked on has been leaked on the internet luckily, but there's been close calls and it's not nice.

As much as I love Jason's work, his comments and some I'm seeing from Era users are prime examples of why discussion and commentary on videogames by people who don't make and bring them to consumers for a living can be so aggravating to read sometimes.

Jason has literally made a living off of behind the scenes insights and leaking shit on Kotaku. Of course he's going to say this. Meanwhile a lot of care and attention goes into deciding and executing how we want to bring a game into the consumer consciousness, especially knowing how quick gamers are to make assumptions, get things wrong, spread misinformation etc. It's a shit feeling when something you've been working hard on is shown off on terms that aren't your own.

It is completely disrespectful and unprofessional. Especially when leaked by colleagues, former colleagues, partners or former partners, or journalists that have signed multiple NDAs in their career and know how things work and how much sensitive things are where potential partnerships could literally be ruined due to a leak, and so on.

Usually though, AAA companies have material prepared if things leak, with multiple degrees of severity along with relevant assets and communication strategies.

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Thank you.

 

[Falk]

People tend try to piece as much as they can together out of whatever little information comes to light and there's a really awkward point on the graph of how much information is public where shit just gets out of hand and speculation pretty much turn into internet-hive-consciousness fact. Being more transparent doesn't make that issue go away so much as it polarizes fans even more.

Heck nowadays people can't even make an offhand comment about their time working with Nomura without hordes of stans/critics using one single comment in a podcast about a completely unrelated topic as supreme proof towards either extreme hypothesis regarding working conditions at Square Enix, just so they can feel justified about their position within dumb internet arguments.

Meanwhile a lot of care and attention goes into deciding and executing how we want to bring a game into the consumer consciousness, especially knowing how quick gamers are to make assumptions, get things wrong, spread misinformation etc. It's a shit feeling when something you've been working hard on is shown off on terms that aren't your own.

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Truth.

Usually though, AAA companies have material prepared if things leak, with multiple degrees of severity along with relevant assets and communication strategies.

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Also truth.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

I was part of a studio when a project leaked a few years ago.

It was awful, the entire studio basically suspended operations and went on lockdown until the leaker was caught.

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Surely your IT department could go through the email logs and find the person pretty easily? At least that's what I've had to do with people in the past when things like this (not exactly the same) happened.

 

[Glio]

Surely your IT department could go through the email logs and find the person pretty easily? At least that's what I've had to do with people in the past when things like this (not exactly the same) happened.

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I suspect that any leaker who uses email for that will have an extremely short professional career

 

[Sumio Mondo]

I suspect that any leaker who uses email for that will have an extremely short professional career

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lol. You'd be surprised how dumb people are.

 

[Yossarian]

does cory thing marketing departments are made of robots?

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I can confirm that most people who work in marketing are not robots, they're vat-grown.

 

[Segafreak]

There's too much secrecy in the industry. Avengers 3 & 4 were both announced in 2014. The hype and anticipation were still high when they released and made billions of dollars.

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Announcement of a movie title vs leaks of images, details and trailers are 2 different things.

 

[Keldroc]

To anyone who thinks, "pffff...why should a dev care if I see their stuff early from a leak?", I would ask:
Do you dress up on a first date?

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Please provide an instance in which you did not buy or play a game specifically because you learned about its existence in a way not properly presented by the publisher's marketing department months earlier.

 

[Snefer]

Well, if you are working your ass off for years, and you are trying to craft an awesome game with an awesome announcement, and someone ruins that... that fucking hurts. And its not that its a "billion dollar marketing" or whatever, its very rewarding as a developer to see the reactions when you reveal something to the world, especially since that often happens in the middle of the toughest part of development, so it often serves as a great motivational boost too. Devs read forums and comments. You really want to make it the absolute best you can. So yeah, sometimes leaks really hurt, but mostly emotionally tbh. Then again I have experienced multiple leaks that didnt impact at all during development. So.. it depends.

Reporting on stuff like bad work conditions, or about what went down where etc is all fine in my book and is interesting stuff, leaking an annoucement ahead of time doesnt have much merit imho.

 

[QBizM]

They can lead to bad blood and a lack of trust between dev and publisher. Can lead to cancellation if leak is early enough in cycle. If leak frames game in poor light can be though to recover

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Bit in bold... Really? Someone leaks that a game is in development and because of that, it gets cancelled? Sounds a bit far fetched.

 

[Glio]

Bit in bold... Really? Someone leaks that a game is in development and because of that, it gets cancelled? Sounds a bit far fetched.

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I vaguely remember that Nintendo once did that a few years ago? I do not remember well but I think it was very early in the project and there were a lot of leaks and Nintendo could not trust the studio.

 

[Globule]

Leaks will mostly affect marketing teams' work, that won't break their hearts. You need one for that.

 

[JustJavi]

I vaguely remember that Nintendo once did that a few years ago? I do not remember well but I think it was very early in the project and there were a lot of leaks and Nintendo could not trust the studio.

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The studio was High Voltage and Nintendo cancelled the project because an employee from the studio leaked information about the game.

Edit: Nintendo recycled quite a lot of the ideas from that cancelled game and turned them into Splatoon.

 

[Glio]

The studio was High Voltage and Nintendo cancelled the project because an employee from the studio leaked information about the game.

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I did not remember the concrete studio, thank you.

In the end I guess the problem is not the leak, the problem is the trust.

 

[aisback]

If it's a game which has been canned then there's no harm.

I also don't see harm when it's concept art.

however leaked gameplay is something else entirely.

 

[Jakisthe]

does cory thing marketing departments are made of robots?

of course they're people, that doesn't mean it's not still a bajillion dollar marketing wankfest

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Being opposed to something because it's an effort that took money to come to fruition is the dumbest take I've seen from this debate.

 

[mocolostrocolos]

• Its a bummer for morale. You're working hard, hoping that you're gonna blow someones mind (we delight watching reaction posts or videos) and then because someone was an asshole or was careless your fans learn about it in a very unoptimal way and make assumptions
• Strictly business? A lot of money can be lost by leaks. Not going to give you exact numbers but enough money to make you go HOLY FUCK WHAT

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Please, can you explain how money can be lost by leaks of game announcements? I'm really curious.

 

[sn00zer]

Being opposed to something because it's an effort that took money to come to fruition is the dumbest take I've seen from this debate.

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I agree but I will say this is something I didn't really think about until I started working and really needed to cost out projects. Wow that ad campaign cost millions of dollars what are they doing with that money? Oh they are paying a significant amount for labor, materials, liscencing. They are paying a lot of people to do a lot of work.
I am absolutely for leaking working conditions or things that are truly wrong in the industry, but putting a leak of a game announcement on blast just doesn't have any value.

 

[Moosichu]

The flipside for the all the secrecy developers have to engage in is that they can pour their hearts into a project that ultimately gets cancelled, and not be able to tell anyone about it. That wouldn't be an issue if games were announced in advance.

 

[Sailent]

jschreier's tweet just feels kinda disrespectful to the people working in said projects, like he knows better than them

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"As fun and exciting as E3 press conference surprises can be" he's not disrespecting that at all.

 

[JamboGT]

It sucks. Can be very deflating.

 

[sn00zer]

The flipside for the all the secrecy developers have to engage in is that they can pour their hearts into a project that ultimately gets cancelled, and not be able to tell anyone about it. That wouldn't be an issue if games were announced in advance.

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This is don't know how I feel and would like to hear more from devs. Leaked dead projects seem more like a sigh of relief from devs when they are pulled out of the closet. That said, other industries where cancelled projects aren't entertainment products could have pretty reverberating consequences with leaks of dead projects.

 

[____]

To anyone who thinks, "pffff...why should a dev care if I see their stuff early from a leak?", I would ask:
Do you dress up on a first date?

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Someone in the other thread literally told me: why do I owe a dev anything?

 

[dude]

I'm in mobile dev, so it's quite different, but I would differentiate leaking something a few hours before it being revealed in E3 and more severe leaking, like of games that the devs and publishers did not intend on announcing for a while.
Leaking something a few days or hours before it's about to be announced I'd assume would be a bummer - but at the end of the day, I can't imagine it'll do much but hurt morale a bit, but I wouldn't know.
The other kind I think is a huge problem, and can have a negative impact on the dev process.

 

[Jakisthe]

I agree but I will say this is something I didn't really think about until I started working and really needed to cost out projects. Wow that ad campaign cost millions of dollars what are they doing with that money? Oh they are paying a significant amount for labor, materials, liscencing. They are paying a lot of people to do a lot of work.
I am absolutely for leaking working conditions or things that are truly wrong in the industry, but putting a leak of a game announcement on blast just doesn't have any value.

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The fact that it costs money is entirely irrelevant to any discussion about the value of spoilers though. Literally everything anyone consumes for enjoyment of any kind, at all, costs money.

 

[Moosichu]

This is don't know how I feel and would like to hear more from devs. Leaked dead projects seem more like a sigh of relief from devs when they are pulled out of the closet. That said, other industries where cancelled projects aren't entertainment products could have pretty reverberating consequences with leaks of dead projects.

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I should have mentioned that I'm a dev. I've heard stories about people spending years on projects that they can't even put on their resume/CV. I think the cost of that is fairly high. But that's less to do with leaks, and more with the fact that the announcement of products is so tied into the marketing cycle itself. You wouldn't have that issue if you did a bunch of cool things in preproduction on a cancelled movie though.

 

[sn00zer]

The fact that it costs money is entirely irrelevant to any discussion about the value of spoilers though. Literally everything anyone consumes for enjoyment of any kind, at all, costs money.

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Sure, my point though was that money can be translated into the amount of work put into something. There is a lot of hand waving of level of effort when money rather than labor is used to describe a project.

 

[Deleted member 41520]

It is completely disrespectful and unprofessional. Especially when leaked by colleagues, former colleagues, partners or former partners, or journalists that have signed multiple NDAs in their career and know how things work and how much sensitive things are where potential partnerships could literally be ruined due to a leak, and so on.

Usually though, AAA companies have material prepared if things leak, with multiple degrees of severity along with relevant assets and communication strategies.

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How do you feel it compares to the movie industry where almost nothing about the end product is secret except a couple of core plot beats and usually numerous less important scenes? And they're still wildly successful?

I don't disagree with you but the whole point is hard to swallow when the movie industry isn't precious about this shit at all and still has products that sell like hot cakes despite all the detailed advance information.

Like surely that means all the secrecy in game development isn't necessary at all?

 

[Jakisthe]

Sure, my point though was that money can be translated into the amount of work put into something. There is a lot of hand waving of level of effort when money rather than labor is used to describe a project.

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Using money to describe it was dumb, whoever was doing it. Whenever someone tries to say "it's all marketing", they're relying on some awful, myopic logic that lasts about 4 seconds of actual thought.

 

[sn00zer]

I should have mentioned that I'm a dev. I've heard stories about people spending years on projects that they can't even put on their resume/CV. I think the cost of that is fairly high. But that's less to do with leaks, and more with the fact that the announcement of products is so tied into the marketing cycle itself. You wouldn't have that issue if you did a bunch of cool things in preproduction on a cancelled movie though.

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This is a good point. I think RE2 was one of the few games that basically got announced at it's inception. I think there is a better conversation here about the general secrecy in games that creates these bug moments devs wait for.

 

[EvilBoris]

Um did Schreier lock down his twitter or did I recently get banned from viewing his tweets? I disagree with the dudes opinions often but I've never been abusive towards him.....weird.

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There are various twitter bots that rely on you having interacted with key shitbags to be added to a list of death. Maybe you've done that , even if it was in disagreement

 

[That Naive Cube!!]

I think what he's trying to say is that people who work in marketing express their creativity through marketing. Leaks ruin that for them. Yeah they didn't make the game, but that doesn't mean the thing they've been working on for months is any less important. They deserve to have their work seen the way it was meant to be seen instead of some faceless Anon trying to earn fake internet points.

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Even more ridiculous when there are literally threads documenting a movie's public filming prior to its release.

 

[Harlequin]

Just curious - and I completely understand if you can't answer - but how do you know the money? Is it because of lost advertising revenue due to contracts? Or because it can lead to a loss of sales because it's not on your terms - but if so, how do you quantify this?

Apologies if this sounds like the stupidest question ever - I'm a teacher and so far, none of my lessons have been leaked early.

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Please, can you explain how money can be lost by leaks of game announcements? I'm really curious.

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Others here have explained that, when a leak happens, many studios start a hunt for the leaker during which they sometimes even suspend operations/go on lockdown. It's easy to see how that would cost money. Not only do you need to have employees spend valuable time trying to find the leaker, your other employees may not be able to continue working during this time. But, of course, they'd still be getting paid (at least I would hope they are) so that would be one way a leak might lose you a good amount of money. (I'm sure there are other things that contribute, as well.)

 

[A Path Finder]

It sucks and it can be very demoralizing.

 

[thetrin]

It hurts immensely. The whole point is to have a single point for maximum impact. This maximizes interest and excitement for the game. Leaks affect teams a lot, and there's a reason people get fired over leaking things.

I had a conversation with my coworker just today about how crappy it is to see so many things leak this close to the start of E3. It must be hugely demoralizing for the devs and the pubs.

I hear about all kinds of unannounced games by virtue of being in the industry, and I take my responsibility to stay quiet very seriously.

 

[AtomicShroom]

They don't impact my work, personally, but they're a pretty big downer to the whole organization. It's palpable. Sometimes you have stuff like reveal exclusivity deal$$$$$ with some publications and if that leaks, it becomes worthless and a breach of contract. In the case of events like E3, marketing has to scramble to readjust the messaging. It's a big hassle and can be a substantial financial hit.

 

[Deleted member 1003]

Leaks go way beyond just the title and encompasses videos, screenshots and Gane details.

Also, you used the word 'anounced'. Not leaked. Basically confirming that Marvel was in control of the Information.

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It doesn't matter if it was to leaked before they announced or not, the hype and anticipation were still there. If it was leaked that. Nova is the movie in the MCU who would be hurt? Nobody, because Marvel has people's interest.

Maybe announce isn't the right word, I'm just saying there is too much secrecy in general when it comes to the games industry and they weaponize the fans to get mad at the media or whoever for "leaking" when they just need to say, "Yup were making it, we'll show you more on Sunday!".

 

[sn00zer]

It hurts immensely. The whole point is to have a single point for maximum impact. This maximizes interest and excitement for the game. Leaks affect teams a lot, and there's a reason people get fired over leaking things.

I hear about all kinds of unannounced games by virtue of being in the industry, and I take my responsibility to stay quiet very seriously.

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Do you think the industry could shift in that the existence of the product is announced well ahead of time and the peak excitement is the first trailer/media?