Gabe Newell says brain-computer interface tech will allow video games far beyond what human 'meat peripherals' can comprehend

[test_account]

Yeah I'm not really arguing for a controller standard, not anymore. It's not happening. Dual analog + gyro like Switch and DS4 and 5 are good compromises, since some games just play better with dual analog, like Nier Automata with it's twin stick shooter modes and things.

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Understood. Yeah, the current controller setups (dual analong and mouse+keyboard) are likely going to stay as the standard controller input for quite some more time, indeed, i agree.

As you mentioned later, the Steam Controller didn't fit with a lot of pc players because mouse and keyboard works well, and the only annoying part of this combo to me is having so many buttons put all over the keyboard because there's space for it. I sometimes have to look down at it to hit 3-7 and the right side of the keyboard when I'm using the mouse already (JKL;). I tried finding a alternative to the keyboard like those gamepads, something to give me a analog for WASD movement (analog is better for this to me) and a good amount of buttons to assign the usual keyboard hotkeys. The Azeron was the closest thing as it's analog actually works as a analog unlike other game keypads.

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Yeah, mouse+keyboard are probably still controller input that can give the most precision i think, at least the mouse when it comes to aiming. So thats probably with the Steam controller didnt do better, i agree. Do we know how many Steam controllers that were sold in total, by the way?

Dang, the design of that mouse is pretty cool/unique. Almost look like some form of bionic hand. Do you use that Azeron device?

I have no clue. I've been off of consoles for most part since the launch of PS4 due to PS+ being required for online gaming on non free to play and subscription based games. It seems to be that not enough PS4 players asked for it like the Switch gamers. I follow and watch streams from the Warframe developers and Switch viewers were all on top of asking about gyro from the start.

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Understood. It might be because not enough people ask for it, yeah. And after all, adding a new feature requires extra work, a small or a big amount, so if "no one" wants it, it might not be worth doing. I think it would be nice to see gyro being supported in more games as an option at least, and hopefully it wont be that much work to "port" such feature over to another gaming system that also supports gyro controls :)

It does, it's much closer to mouse and keyboard. I actually like gyro on the controller more than mouse/keyboard because of the comfort (the keyboard part is uncomfortable to me).


This is the person that created FlickStick which is now supported on Steam, and apparently some PS4 games are working with him too.

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I understand. Once one get used to gyro, i can definitely see it being better for stuff like fine tuning aiming, indeed. And a with any controller input, it also depends on how experienced/good one are with it (the more experience one have, the easier it is to use it in the best way possible). But would it be a legit concern if gyro is in general seen as much better than dual analog in terms of multiplayer balance? In a similar way that mouse+keyboard VS analog sticks is a concern because mouse+keyboard can be much more precise. I havnt really seen that much talk about such potential balance issues when it comes to gyro aiming, so thats why i was wondering if gyro was really THAT much better in terms of giving a big advantage over others, but honestly i havnt really looked too much into it, so i might have missed something.

I'm not sure what the best solution would be though. Maybe having seperate servers that allows both gyro aiming and dual analog (maybe even mouse+keyboard as well) to be used as a controller input, and servers that only allows dual analog. I dont think removing gyro aiming from a game is the best solution, since then theres less controller options after all.

I guess it also depends on which game thats being played. I've played cross platform (PS4 VS PC) with Call of Duty: Modern Warfare (the 2019 release), and i've been fine with that. I felt that the competition was still fair eventhough that i played against keyboard+mouse players. One reason for that might be because the TTK (Time To Kill) in the CoD games are pretty low, especially when playing Hardcore-mode (where one die after like 1-2 shots). So once you see an enemy and get the aim on him/her first, it doesnt take much to get the kill in that regards. While other games with a higher TTK, there more movement/aiming might be required to get the kill, and then the controller inputs might matter even more.

On a side note Modern Warfare 2019 does also support native mouse+keyboard controllers on the PS4 (maybe on the Xbox One as well). So at least it is an option for PS4 players to use another controller input as well :)

Thanks for the video. FlickStick seems like an interesting thing i think :)

When I mention mapping I mean assigning buttons to the controllers for a layout for a particular game. Steam Input and reWASD, for example, allow you to map buttons in whatever way you want, or to share profiles with others using a ranking system to look for the most popular configs.

Think about the way games allow you to pick between around 3 different layouts, and maybe let you change a few things like which button is jump and which is reload. With a controller that has gyro since there's no gyro on Xbox controller Microsoft doesn't improve Xinput on Windows OS to support gyro in controllers to act as they should, a precise mouse like input. So these controllers have to attach the gyro data to the mouse input. The problem with that is if you keep the default controller button input (likely xbox since it's windows) then try to mix it with mouse via gyro, that causes problems with a ton of games creating the stutter due to the transition of trying to use both input types at the same time.

Examples of the mapping apps. Note how the MGSV example (blue) has mouse/keyboard + normal controller buttons assigned to it. Likely MGSV doesn't have that stutter input effect and they both can be used together without a problem.

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Oh ok, i see. Thanks for the pictures :) Is there any advantages to use Xinput by the way, lets say over something like reWASD? Its been a while since i was more into PC gaming, so maybe i'm misunderstanding something.

I can't go back. Steam Controller is dead, I have a few backups, but when these break down (they feel cheap and internals break and stop working often) at least I have a unlimited supply of Playstation, and Nintendo controllers out there, including their future controllers.

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Understood, its good that you have a good amount of controllers available with gyro aiming :)

And yeah, it can defintely be somewhat hard to go back to something in this regards, indeed. I mainly started gaming on consoles (back in the NES days), then i went mainly over to PC for many years, and then back to consoles again. I remember playing a lot of Medal of Honor Allied Assault on PC. I then went back to it just to try it out again after a few years, and i found it hard to aim with the mouse again, hehe. I need my brain/muscle memory to be adjusted to play well with mouse+keyboard again :)

But in the end, as mentioned earlier, i hope that more games will support gyro aiming, even if i dont use it myself (at least not yet). I more than welcome gyro aiming as an option. I think having more controller options can be a good thing :)

EDIT: I added a bit more text.

 

[test_account]

EDIT: Double post.

 

[HebrewHammer]

You can see why they don't make games much anymore.

This guy is just speaking on a completely different level and could care less about been-there-done-that things.

 

[Ploid 6.0]

Yeah, mouse+keyboard are probably still controller input that can give the most precision i think, at least the mouse when it comes to aiming. So thats probably with the Steam controller didnt do better, i agree. Do we know how many Steam controllers that were sold in total, by the way?

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No idea, it didn't do too well, especially since Steam Machines, it's intended use, failed horribly. Steam Machines were small console shaped computers with it's own operating system. It was supposed to be a way for hardware manufacturers to make consoles of their own in a way, free from Windows, and easy for console gamers to pick up and play with no worrying about things PC players have to.

Dang, the design of that mouse is pretty cool/unique. Almost look like some form of bionic hand. Do you use that Azeron device?

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It's not a mouse, it's a game keypad. It takes the place of a keyboard in your left hand (if you're right handed). I didn't get one, it still seemed like it was in the prototype stage, and I just stuck with controller.

I understand. Once one get used to gyro, i can definitely see it being better for stuff like fine tuning aiming, indeed. And a with any controller input, it also depends on how experienced/good one are with it (the more experience one have, the easier it is to use it in the best way possible). But would it be a legit concern if gyro is in general seen as much better than dual analog in terms of multiplayer balance? In a similar way that mouse+keyboard VS analog sticks is a concern because mouse+keyboard can be much more precise. I havnt really seen that much talk about such potential balance issues when it comes to gyro aiming, so thats why i was wondering if gyro was really THAT much better in terms of giving a big advantage over others, but honestly i havnt really looked too much into it, so i might have missed something.

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Yes, it would be a legit concern, but as you mentioned, there are already games that allow mouse/keyboard in those console games.


So while there may be concern the analog players still have some tricks to abuse the aim assist to maybe help them catch up. They use a technique called snap on aiming or centering.

https://youtu.be/OS1nyJbf3oE

Thanks for the video. FlickStick seems like an interesting thing i think :)

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Here's FlickStick being used in a game. I mentioned it but I don't think I provided video of it, or how it works. Basically it uses the right analog as a radial control to face the character, IIRC it's 1:1. So if you pull the right analog down you will do a 180, the gyro will do the aiming. With gyro it made the right analog a bit redundant, but it got uses for repositioning the camera. With Flick Stick you're always repositioning and make a great use for the analog, those quick wide movements (flicks), while analog is doing the fine and quick adjustments to aim.

DOOM Eternal - Replacing the Weapon Wheel (and adding Gyro + Flick Stick)

What can a DualShock 4 do that an Xbox One controller can't? Flick stick and gyro aiming. See how DOOM Eternal SHOULD play on PlayStation and Switch. And see...

www.youtube.com

Oh ok, i see. Thanks for the pictures :) Is there any advantages to use Xinput by the way, lets say over something like reWASD? Its been a while since i was more into PC gaming, so maybe i'm misunderstanding something.

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Well Xinput is just easier to use for PC developers it seem. reWASD is just a button mapper so it also can use Xinput configs for controllers. With Steam they can use Xinput as well or whatever else. They created a input language that doesn't rely on the usual control language like Xinput. What they tried to do was assign actions instead of buttons. I'll post some quotes to try to help explain better below, quotes from the video I'll link below as well. It's long but he goes over a lot of the headache of current control code and how sloppy it can be.

You should do something like, if any game pad's "A" was pushed, it should do the thing. And by "any game pad" I mean whatever gamepad is controlled according to whether I'm looking for the first one connected, or just player one. Um, but it should also mean any device. So if I got a PS4 controller, the "X" should mean the "A" button. If it's the Xbox 360 it means the "A" button. You know, I really mean the bottom face button. So that sort of abstraction make it simpler to deal with multiple devices all at once, with cleaner input code.

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In the magical world of actions, you don't care that A was pressed, you care that Mario jumped. The back end is totally responsible for talking to your input device, and just doing the right thing, and your game doesn't care at all about raw input. This is the heart of the Steam Controller API and the kind of revolutionary thing it does. It's the hardest thing for developers to wrap their heads around, because they're always like, "how do I activate the gyro, or how do I, you know, get this physical thing on the thing." You want to think and design your game entirely around actions, and not about input.

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Steam Controller

The Steam Controller has come a long way since we first announced it at Steam Dev Days 2014. Valve's Jeff Bellinghausen will provide an update on some of the...

youtu.be

 

[snausages]

Ok Gabe I get it, you want me to literally become a Combine in order to play Half Life 3. Just let me know the release date

 

[Pyccko]

i personally don't want to plug my human brain into a "videos, gamed" machine

just me personal

 

[Ploid 6.0]

It might start with video games, but as someone that could go blind at any time (just takes one accident, one stray stick when cutting grass), I welcome this. Give me tech that lets me see through camera lenses while you're at it. Allow, well they already do allow to some extent, people paralyzed people from the neck down to control cursors and control computers with their minds.

The retirement home will be amazing when it's my time I hope. I always wondered what it would be like. I remember wishing I was super old when I was around 21 so I could play Final Fantasy XI all day and night. In the future old people might be parkouring all over a city and gliding between shapes.

Imagine something like this from your bed or recliner as a old person, but without a drone buzzing around people, and the actual range to keep going all over a huge world (Flight Sim but with more detail on the ground).

 

[test_account]

No idea, it didn't do too well, especially since Steam Machines, it's intended use, failed horribly. Steam Machines were small console shaped computers with it's own operating system. It was supposed to be a way for hardware manufacturers to make consoles of their own in a way, free from Windows, and easy for console gamers to pick up and play with no worrying about things PC players have to.

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Yeah, the Steam Machine not being very successful in the overall market is probably a reason for it, indeed. I forgot about the Steam Machines for a moment :)

It's not a mouse, it's a game keypad. It takes the place of a keyboard in your left hand (if you're right handed). I didn't get one, it still seemed like it was in the prototype stage, and I just stuck with controller.

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Ah, right. I guess i got things mixed up for a minute there seeing the analog stick on it hehe, but that is of course the same as the left analog stick that a controller has.

I see. Thinking about it, i think i've seen something similar, like Razer Tartarus or something. That has part of a keyboard on it however, so maybe its not that different compared to a regular keyboard, but it also has an analog stick on it at least :)

Yes, it would be a legit concern, but as you mentioned, there are already games that allow mouse/keyboard in those console games.


So while there may be concern the analog players still have some tricks to abuse the aim assist to maybe help them catch up. They use a technique called snap on aiming or centering.

https://youtu.be/OS1nyJbf3oE

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Yeah, the aim assist as you mention might help balance things out more, indeed. It would be interesting to know how the developers think about gyro aiming and potenital balance. Maybe they're a bit reluctant to do it in case of unbalancing issues and then get negative feedback on it. And the same time, if they they add it to begin with, maybe they dont want to remove it for the people who want to use it, making the situation to keep gyro aiming in the game or not a bit tricky if theres many mixed feelings about it. But i wouldnt mind see more developers including gyro aiming in their games, and at least see how things work out overall. I think the result could be positive overall :)

Thanks for the video. I think one of the main reasons why i havnt checked into gyro aiming too much is because i'm not sure how i feel about "constantly" having to move the controller instead of just having my hands/controller more resting in my lap while playing. Maybe its possible to move the controller enough while its resting in the lap, and still get good use of the gyro aiming though. But i think it definitely seems that gyro aiming can be more precise with the aiming once getting used to it, i cant really deny that :) Maybe i'll check out gyro aiming some more once i have the opportunity to do it (that more games that i play get gyro aiming support), and maybe i'll change my mind on it. It doesnt hurt to try it some more at least =)

Here's FlickStick being used in a game. I mentioned it but I don't think I provided video of it, or how it works. Basically it uses the right analog as a radial control to face the character, IIRC it's 1:1. So if you pull the right analog down you will do a 180, the gyro will do the aiming. With gyro it made the right analog a bit redundant, but it got uses for repositioning the camera. With Flick Stick you're always repositioning and make a great use for the analog, those quick wide movements (flicks), while analog is doing the fine and quick adjustments to aim.

DOOM Eternal - Replacing the Weapon Wheel (and adding Gyro + Flick Stick)

What can a DualShock 4 do that an Xbox One controller can't? Flick stick and gyro aiming. See how DOOM Eternal SHOULD play on PlayStation and Switch. And see...

www.youtube.com

Click to shrink...

Thanks for this video as well :) Now that you mention this video, unless i remember wrong, i think i've seen it a while back. I definitely think FlickStick looks interesting, and i wouldnt mind seeing it being implemented in games, so that i can try it out :)

Well Xinput is just easier to use for PC developers it seem. reWASD is just a button mapper so it also can use Xinput configs for controllers. With Steam they can use Xinput as well or whatever else. They created a input language that doesn't rely on the usual control language like Xinput. What they tried to do was assign actions instead of buttons. I'll post some quotes to try to help explain better below, quotes from the video I'll link below as well. It's long but he goes over a lot of the headache of current control code and how sloppy it can be.

Steam Controller

The Steam Controller has come a long way since we first announced it at Steam Dev Days 2014. Valve's Jeff Bellinghausen will provide an update on some of the...

youtu.be

Click to shrink...

Ah ok, i see. Thanks for the video and the quotes. So instead of having to map each different controller (like the A and X buttons), it rather just map e.g the bottom button on a controller instead, making it more universal (since several controllers have 4 face buttons anyway)? That sounds like a good idea, indeed. But since the controllers arent all identical, i guess that is where the problems come in overall (like the Xbox controller not having gyro)?

 

[Ploid 6.0]

Thanks for the video. I think one of the main reasons why i havnt checked into gyro aiming too much is because i'm not sure how i feel about "constantly" having to move the controller instead of just having my hands/controller more resting in my lap while playing. Maybe its possible to move the controller enough while its resting in the lap, and still get good use of the gyro aiming though. But i think it definitely seems that gyro aiming can be more precise with the aiming once getting used to it, i cant really deny that :) Maybe i'll check out gyro aiming some more once i have the opportunity to do it (that more games that i play get gyro aiming support), and maybe i'll change my mind on it. It doesnt hurt to try it some more at least =)

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This depends on how the sensitivity is in the game. On PC I have all the control of how much movement I want so I set it to a certain amount that I'm used to. I always rest my arms on my lap or whatever, when I'm moving the camera with the gyro I'm moving my wrists, not much but ever so slightly. Sure the camera spaz out when I'm moving the controller around to put it down or lift my leg onto an foot rest for example, but it is what it is (it's just like bumping a mouse, I guess. Analogs hardly ever get pushed around).

Try it. Hold the controller how you normally hold it, and slightly move it left, right, up and down. I don't do big movements like emulating a steering wheel peripheral. My movements and setting mostly feel like I'm holding a laser pointer and pointing at a far away display board (the further away it is the more sensitive). If that display board was in my face, less than arm's length I'd have to do big motions to reach the corners (tries it in hand), even that isn't so bad, though I developed ways to use my fingers to do most of the controller manipulation. My wrist and fingers work together to point, not my arms doing Wii style big gestures.

Ah ok, i see. Thanks for the video and the quotes. So instead of having to map each different controller (like the A and X buttons), it rather just map e.g the bottom button on a controller instead, making it more universal (since several controllers have 4 face buttons anyway)? That sounds like a good idea, indeed. But since the controllers arent all identical, i guess that is where the problems come in overall (like the Xbox controller not having gyro)?

Click to shrink...

It's more like this.

Say jump is just jump, and not A, X, or F key. So when porting that game to Switch it can be whatever button because it's just an action to the game, jump. This is one of the reasons games that support Steam Input work when you assign the standard default controller layout + mouse for gyro and touch pad. The game see Jump and the gyro instructions, not controller buttons and mouse fighting for input recognition causing a brief pause as it switch from something like Xinput (microsoft game pad thing) to Mouse or keyboard buttons. Everything is on the same page since the game just recognize jump, reload, and gyro.

From that video, it seems like game developers assign actions to buttons, creating the "spaghetti code", where Steam Input's way of doing it is less complicated when supporting multiple platforms and controllers. Jump is jump, and the game setting determines which button is jump. Instead of the code needing to specify which button is set to perform these actions for each platform, current and future.

Jump = A (Xbox), X (PS), B (Nin), Space Bar (PC), A (Stadia), A (Iphone controller), etc.
vs
Jump = Jump

And yes, just having actions mapped as actions sounds like it makes porting easier, cleaner, no

 

[Arthands]

Not at all, I live in England and wear socks. At least put something on for an interview!

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Nah nope.

 

[Dremorak]

Nopey nopey nope nope

 

[Dremorak]

Jeez put some shoes on

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Admittedly he is in New Zealand, we are pretty laid back and wearing jandals esp in this heat is acceptable almost everywhere

 

[Bradford]

there is something unbelievably metal about this quote:

You're used to experiencing the world through eyes, but eyes were created by this low-cost bidder that didn't care about failure rates and RMAs, and if it got broken there was no way to repair anything effectively, which totally makes sense from an evolutionary perspective, but is not at all reflective of consumer preferences.

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go off gaben, throw some more shade on god, lmao.

 

[Coop]

This reminds me :

Q&A: Will Wright, creator of the Sims

Game designer Will Wright is responsible for some of the world's most famous titles - but he's really excited the prospect of plugging them directly into his brain, he tells Bobbie Johnson.

www.theguardian.com

 

[test_account]

This depends on how the sensitivity is in the game. On PC I have all the control of how much movement I want so I set it to a certain amount that I'm used to. I always rest my arms on my lap or whatever, when I'm moving the camera with the gyro I'm moving my wrists, not much but ever so slightly. Sure the camera spaz out when I'm moving the controller around to put it down or lift my leg onto an foot rest for example, but it is what it is (it's just like bumping a mouse, I guess. Analogs hardly ever get pushed around).

Try it. Hold the controller how you normally hold it, and slightly move it left, right, up and down. I don't do big movements like emulating a steering wheel peripheral. My movements and setting mostly feel like I'm holding a laser pointer and pointing at a far away display board (the further away it is the more sensitive). If that display board was in my face, less than arm's length I'd have to do big motions to reach the corners (tries it in hand), even that isn't so bad, though I developed ways to use my fingers to do most of the controller manipulation. My wrist and fingers work together to point, not my arms doing Wii style big gestures.

Click to shrink...

Understood. On consoles, are the gyro settings usually set to one specific sensitivity, or do they follow the in-game sensitivitiy for the analog sticks? Usually, i set the sensitivity pretty low, for example, in CoD games i have it set to 2 out of 10. I also had lower sensitivity on Medal of Honor on PC, because i feel its easier to fine tune the aim in a smaller area on the screen. Its not that good if i have to do a quick turn around or so though, hehe. Maybe FlickStick could help with that.

But yeah, i'll definitely will try out gyro aiming again once i get the chance :) Its been a while since i've tried it. The last time i can remember is probably in 'Uncharted: Golden Abyss' for the Vita. In that game, i think it was limited to when using a sniper scope however, and not the entire game, if i'm not mistaken. It worked well for that i think, but i havnt been sure how it would be if i had to play the entire game with moving the Vita around. But again, i will try it again once i get the chance and perhaps give it more of a chance then :)

It's more like this.

Say jump is just jump, and not A, X, or F key. So when porting that game to Switch it can be whatever button because it's just an action to the game, jump. This is one of the reasons games that support Steam Input work when you assign the standard default controller layout + mouse for gyro and touch pad. The game see Jump and the gyro instructions, not controller buttons and mouse fighting for input recognition causing a brief pause as it switch from something like Xinput (microsoft game pad thing) to Mouse or keyboard buttons. Everything is on the same page since the game just recognize jump, reload, and gyro.

From that video, it seems like game developers assign actions to buttons, creating the "spaghetti code", where Steam Input's way of doing it is less complicated when supporting multiple platforms and controllers. Jump is jump, and the game setting determines which button is jump. Instead of the code needing to specify which button is set to perform these actions for each platform, current and future.

Jump = A (Xbox), X (PS), B (Nin), Space Bar (PC), A (Stadia), A (Iphone controller), etc.
vs
Jump = Jump

And yes, just having actions mapped as actions sounds like it makes porting easier, cleaner, no

Click to shrink...

Ah ok, so what Steam Input is doing is that it makes the code a lot more cleaner? Where if you wanted to do the same thing the "traditional way" (for lack of a better term), it would require a lot more code, and therefor being a mess like spaghetti (like the cable spaghetti as the pictures shows :))? If so, i think i understand. I first thought maybe assigning an action to the button instead of mapping it as e.g button X or A, that this was a feature that was unique and brand new to Steam Input.

 

[Ploid 6.0]

Understood. On consoles, are the gyro settings usually set to one specific sensitivity, or do they follow the in-game sensitivitiy for the analog sticks? Usually, i set the sensitivity pretty low, for example, in CoD games i have it set to 2 out of 10. I also had lower sensitivity on Medal of Honor on PC, because i feel its easier to fine tune the aim in a smaller area on the screen. Its not that good if i have to do a quick turn around or so though, hehe. Maybe FlickStick could help with that.

But yeah, i'll definitely will try out gyro aiming again once i get the chance :) Its been a while since i've tried it. The last time i can remember is probably in 'Uncharted: Golden Abyss' for the Vita. In that game, i think it was limited to when using a sniper scope however, and not the entire game, if i'm not mistaken. It worked well for that i think, but i havnt been sure how it would be if i had to play the entire game with moving the Vita around. But again, i will try it again once i get the chance and perhaps give it more of a chance then :)

Click to shrink...

There should be a sensitivity setting, it's probably not as detailed as PC but there should be at least one bar to adjust. Also go in expecting a learning curve. When dual analog came out there were games specifically designed for them to help, one way to play so you couldn't disable it and go back to button target lock gameplay (Ape Escape, Timesplitters, Halo). I practiced on third person free roam games (Saints Row 4 with it's super powers, gun/powers aiming, and orb collecting).

Ah ok, so what Steam Input is doing is that it makes the code a lot more cleaner? Where if you wanted to do the same thing the "traditional way" (for lack of a better term), it would require a lot more code, and therefor being a mess like spaghetti (like the cable spaghetti as the pictures shows :))? If so, i think i understand. I first thought maybe assigning an action to the button instead of mapping it as e.g button X or A, that this was a feature that was unique and brand new to Steam Input.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, though the Steam Controller failed, Steam Input is still supported since Steam uses all the major controllers especially the new Dual Sense. I don't know if things are tidy on the console side though since Steam Input is only for PC. There are times when people datamine a game on Playstation, and they see Xbox stuff in it to be able to break the news that it's coming to xbox, but someone would come along and say it's likely just PC since it uses the xbox controller. I wonder if people could tell if games benefit on console by datamining, or just asking a developer. The developers in that Valve developer days conference might have mentioned that it helps, but I just have no proof to say if it does or not.

The Warframe developers nearly abandoned Steam Input because they thought it was only useful for Steam controller though. They got a ton of pushback from people using Nintendo and Playstation controllers and changed their minds. This might be moot since your control code to could be tidy due to wanting to support Steam Input. Seeing what the Warframe devs say though, supporting Steam Input seem like a separate thing, and they are doing extra work.

PSA: Steam Input Changes

Hello Tenno! As you may be aware, Valve's Steam Controller has been discontinued as of December 2019. Part of integrating the Steam Controller into Warframe was adopting the Steam Input layer, which also provides support for a variety of hardware configurations and control schemes beyond the Stea...

forums.warframe.com

As you may be aware, Valve's Steam Controller has been discontinued as of December 2019. Part of integrating the Steam Controller into Warframe was adopting the Steam Input layer, which also provides support for a variety of hardware configurations and control schemes beyond the Steam Controller. As a result of the Steam Controller's discontinuation however, we feel that Steam Input no longer provides any meaningful additional functionality for the vast majority of players who play Warframe with a controller. Supporting both schemes has for many players added significant confusion and technical issues. After considering how we can provide the best experience for players who use a controller, we've decided to remove support for Steam Input from Warframe in the near future.

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(A few days later after complaints)

Thank you for your understanding regarding the upcoming changes to the Steam Input layer. Having read your feedback and concerns, and looking further at the technical details involved in removing Steam Input support, we have decided to postpone (and depending on what we learn, cancel) plans to remove Steam Input support as we look into ways that we can better improve and optimize support for the entire controller ecosystem.

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[Expy]

Imagine a Zombie game where you could "feel" the pain from Zombie bites.

Ouch.

 

[muteant]

there is something unbelievably metal about this quote:

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i'd say it's more cyber-industrial than metal but yeah

 

[test_account]

There should be a sensitivity setting, it's probably not as detailed as PC but there should be at least one bar to adjust. Also go in expecting a learning curve. When dual analog came out there were games specifically designed for them to help, one way to play so you couldn't disable it and go back to button target lock gameplay (Ape Escape, Timesplitters, Halo). I practiced on third person free roam games (Saints Row 4 with it's super powers, gun/powers aiming, and orb collecting).

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Ok, i see.

Yeah, i'm expecting a learning curve, indeed. I remember playing some PS2 games back in the day and i found it hard to use dual analog (maybe some of the games werent the best designed around the use of dual analog though, being more in the relatively early stage of this controller input, but still). I felt the same with some of the earlier PS3 games as well, but i got used to it. At that time i was more used to mouse+keyboard playing on PC :)

Speaking of the games like Ape Escape, Timesplitters and Halo as you mentioned, i wonder if some games will only be designed around gyro aiming. I'm guessing that it will be more of an option rather than mandatory though (which i think is the best way to go, giving people options), but just a thought :)

Yeah, though the Steam Controller failed, Steam Input is still supported since Steam uses all the major controllers especially the new Dual Sense. I don't know if things are tidy on the console side though since Steam Input is only for PC. There are times when people datamine a game on Playstation, and they see Xbox stuff in it to be able to break the news that it's coming to xbox, but someone would come along and say it's likely just PC since it uses the xbox controller. I wonder if people could tell if games benefit on console by datamining, or just asking a developer. The developers in that Valve developer days conference might have mentioned that it helps, but I just have no proof to say if it does or not.

The Warframe developers nearly abandoned Steam Input because they thought it was only useful for Steam controller though. They got a ton of pushback from people using Nintendo and Playstation controllers and changed their minds. This might be moot since your control code to could be tidy due to wanting to support Steam Input. Seeing what the Warframe devs say though, supporting Steam Input seem like a separate thing, and they are doing extra work.

PSA: Steam Input Changes

Hello Tenno! As you may be aware, Valve's Steam Controller has been discontinued as of December 2019. Part of integrating the Steam Controller into Warframe was adopting the Steam Input layer, which also provides support for a variety of hardware configurations and control schemes beyond the Stea...

forums.warframe.com

(A few days later after complaints)

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I see. I wonder if it would be possible to get Steam Input to work on an OS level. I mean, this way maybe the OS handles all of it, so it can work on every game regardless, and developers dont need to integrate it into each game.

Thanks for the discussion! It was informative :)

 

[MrNewVegas]

No socks either, idk what he on

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He's ready to hit a Grateful Dead concert.